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When I bought my 2005 Passat TDI, it was less than the V6 version. And more enjoyable driving out on the open road. If well maintained that Passat Wagon GLS TDI will bring more than the same Passat with 4Motion and a V6 in trade.
I also priced a (used) 09 Jetta TDI.
Essentially a (2 going on 3 MY) used one sells for $300 more than what was paid for it, ... new. By way of 20/20 hindsight (despite the now app $4000 to 5,000 premium to gasser : aka a TDI is essentially a gasser SE) it is following in the 03's footsteps.
Why is resale values @ 2 years too long? Or too short? I also gave examples of cost per mile driven, both for those gasoline and diesel engines. (located in What Would It Take For You To Drive A Diesel Car?) Why is two years an awfully long time and for what?
Last year, the VW TDI model was very clearly distanced by the Prius, whereas previous year result showed a much less thirsty Jetta.
Naturally, there is a big performance gap between the Toy and the VW, but i would expect closer FE figures.
Performance wise, the true contender to the Prius is the 1.6 TDI that I am lucky to use from time to time. I think it would make real sense for VW to introduce this model in the US as not everyone may be looking for strong figures when buying a car.
I guess the problem is the price. I am sure the 1.6 is not much cheaper to manufacture than the 2.0 and VW of America certainly don't have the fat margins they live with in Europe.
However, going 45MPG real world with no specific care may be appealing more and more in this time of increasing petrol prices.
That about says it all.
The 1.4 TDI is not available on the US market, nor have I driven it, so I can only take your word for it. There are a myriad of European car choices that can out mpg the Prius. As expensive as fuel is in Europe, Prius does NOT sell well in Europe. It sells here albeit, not gangbusters, probably because a series of influences, makes it one of a very few that (currently) gets over 45 mpg. So really the US/states legislature/s as evidenced in the US auto markets are not at all serious about mpg. We don't need new mpg standards, we just need cars that actually post better mpg numbers.
The current TDI's and actually past ones also have never been Prius competitors except in mpg, where the old ones bested the Prius's mpg(03/04 MY)
The current Jetta and 2012 Passat TDI's real equivalent is really the Camry Hybrid. As such the TDI best it in power (torque) price AND mpg.
You KEEP saying that, but repetition does not make it true.
The Jetta TDIs are advertised as HIGH MILEAGE VEHICLES.
The TCH is NOT in such a category.
I'll go with you most of the way if you say the Passat TDI is a Camry competitor, because it's closer in size, target market, and MPG.
But the Jetta TDI is DEFINITELY NOT in the same category as the TCH. It's a smaller car with a different target buyer. People are getting 50+ MPG in the Jetta, and nowhere near that in the TCH. The Jetta competes with the PRIUS.
I think as I am ruking considers the Sportswagen TDI as the competitor to the TCH.
Interior volume for each
Sportswagen TDI = 124.5 cu ft
Toyota TCH = 112 cu ft
Toyota Prius = 115.3 cu ft.
I may agree with you that they are not shopped by the same people. Most of the time people will consider a German car it is for the engineering and handling. The great mileage of the TDI is like putting whipped cream on a strawberry cake. The TCH and Prius are purely driving appliances for the masses. If I was cross shopping the Sportswagen it would be with the Subaru Outback. Toyota really has nothing to compare. Unfortunately Subaru is being dragged down by their Toyota ownership. They have a good diesel if they can get their act together and bring it to America. Right now it looks like Mazda may sneak in and steal some diesel thunder. First Asian automaker with a diesel offering will make a killing.
I am rooting for Subaru as I like the Outback. Just not their lousy CVT.
Passenger volume for the Jetta Sedan: 92.4 cu ft.
You want a car that can "realistically" get 50+ MPG on the highway?
Two options:
1. Prius
2. Jetta TDI
That's it.
That's why they compete HERE. I don't as much care about what goes on elsewhere in regard to this comparison...
By your terms there are no comparables to any of the vehicles mentioned.
The Prius would be best compared to the Leaf or Volt. Niche type vehicles.
"People who want high-mileage diesel sedans which have poor reliability ratings?"
Look, it's obvious that no one buys the Jetta TDI because it's a sports car. (because it ain't one.)
And they don't buy it because of VW's great reputation for selling reliable cars. (because they have just the opposite reputation.)
They buy it for the superior fuel mileage. Just as people don't buy the Prius for anything except high mileage.
Anyone that thinks otherwise has biases which interfere with their clear, coherent thought.
Zietlow chose the Touareg TDI® Clean Diesel for its durability, high-performance and long-range fuel efficiency. Its turbocharged 3.0L V6 TDI® engine delivers 225 horsepower and 406 lb-ft of torque and is designed to perform on rugged terrain and mixed road surfaces at varying altitudes. The clean diesel Touareg consumes 30 percent less fuel and produces up to 25 percent lower CO2 emissions than comparable gasoline vehicles.
“Volkswagen congratulates the Challenge4 Team on their success,” said Rainer Michel, vice president of product marketing, Volkswagen of America. “We knew that the Volkswagen Touareg TDI® Clean Diesel SUV could be pushed to unimaginable limits. The completion of the TDI-Panamericana Endurance Challenge in record-setting time demonstrates the vehicle’s durability, reliability, comfort and fuel-efficiency. This is a great vehicle for adventurers, driving enthusiasts and families alike.”
From August 1 through August 30, Zietlow will drive the record-setting Touareg to Volkswagen dealerships across the nation where interested public can watch a movie about his journey and look inside the vehicle. To see the tour schedule, please visit www.tdi-panamericana.com.
http://thinkblue.vw.com/16000-miles-14-countries-3-people-1-world-record-rainer-- and-team-complete-the-tdi-panamericana-challenge-in-record-time/
Still waiting to hear the final tally for mileage. They had to do a lot of 80-90 MPH driving to maintain an overall 56+ MPH.
Not to sing the praises of the VW TDI, BUT it has been pretty bullet proof over some time (10 years) and many miles. In fact, I would see it as heads and shoulders more durable and reliable than almost any gasser engine VW makes. Keep in mind that w/w VW is second only to Toyota.
I would also agree with gogogodzilla, many big names have indicated turbo diesels and have for one reason or another decided it was not worth the hassle.
I'm with you. So far the only ones to come to the plate and deliver the home runs are the Germans. Not counting the fire breathing diesel PU trucks we build.
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/90434-2012-vw-passat-brings-hybrid-beating-di- esel-tech-stateside
Imagine driving Chicago to Atlanta, or Seattle to Napa Valley, without refueling, in a roomy car. It’s possible if you switch from gasoline to diesel technology and set the cruise control to 65 or 70 on the interstate. That makes the diesel engine version of the new 2012 Volkswagen Passat (about $26,000) more desirable than the gasoline powered Passats that 80% of Americans will buy, and with its excellent fuel economy, perhaps more desirable than hybrids like the Prius, too. Diesel engines used to be loud, smelly, dirty, and slow, but technology has cured those problems. Now it’s simply a perception problem for VW, Audi, BMW, Mercedes-Benz and others selling diesel passenger cars.
All the while, VW has made "constant improvements" to the TDI 2.0 L engine. Now, here is another: little known and hardly believed is the notion that the new oil standard for the VW turbo diesel 507.00 is a 30,000 miles oil change interval OCI (30,000 to 50,000 kms for you across the pond folks). PDS Total Quartz INEO VW 507.00 5w30 Needless to say plenty of engineering has gone into this now ubiquitious specification (since 2004). But really I have been running 20,000 miles OCI's, even with LSD. With the mandatory switch to ULSD, I now run 25,000 OCI's. My last one to current one (OCI's) are at 30,700 miles.
VWA (Americal) continues to recommend 10,000 miles intervals to appease VW dealerships, so they do not mimic the Maytag repairmen concept of old. VW dealers like to sell shorter intervals, like 5,000 miles.
PS
The A4 Allroad with that engine would be my choice.
Just sayin': I could to that in my TCH. I've gotten as much as 621 miles on my 17-gallon tank. My TCH stickered at 26K.
But to your point: yes, you could have gotten about 15% better mileage at 65 MPH, based on this website:
http://www.mpgforspeed.com/
I had to fudge the numbers a bit (using the posted calculator) in that I can get (known and duplicated) 59 mpg @ 75 mpg with bursts to 80-85 mph. The calculator puts my 55 mph mpg @ 77 mpg.
http://www.autoweek.com/article/20110727/CARREVIEWS/110729897?utm_source=DailyDr- ive20110727&utm_medium=enewsletter&utm_term=article1more&utm_content=20110727-20- 11_Mercedes-Benz_E350_Bluetec_Sedan,_an_AutoWeek_Drivers_Log_Car_Review&utm_camp- aign=awdailydrive
By MAC MORRISON on 7/27/2011
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MOTORSPORTS EDITOR MAC MORRISON: For about a $1,500 premium (comparing base prices) over the V6-powered E350, you can drive this diesel-powered 2011 Mercedes-Benz E350 Bluetec that--according to its EPA rating--returns mileage of 22 highway/33 city with a turbocharged V6 that makes 210 hp and 400-lb-ft of torque. For comparison, the normally aspirated, gasoline-burning six-cylinder makes 268 hp and 258 lb-ft--and is rated at 17/24 mpg.
With gasoline prices at today's level, the E350 Bluetec is a solid option, and depending on how many miles you cover per year, you could pay yourself back for the diesel engine relatively quickly. I would choose this engine without hesitation.
Less impressive is the driving experience, which is normally smooth and comfortable as you would expect but far from inspiring. While many of Mercedes' latest products have made a nice step in terms of response, this E-class rolls into corners lazily, and if you are inclined to give it a bit of stick just for fun, the dull and slow steering puts the brakes on your enthusiasm real fast.
This is an ultimate cruiser in the traditional M-B mold, plain and simple--comfortable and strong, with the required amount of perceived panache. It's just not exciting in any way.
On the other hand, his wife - CEO of the company - drives a Jaguar XKR which returns an eye-watering 14mpg, (Imperial), overall. In fairness, she does do a lot of town driving and has a suprisingly heavy right foot for such a petite lady.
diesel vehicle sales thu August
A friend of mine, executive for a US corporation, ordered one as company car.
Delivery scheduled for January 2012.
I guess the specs have already ben published in this forum, so I will just mention that the top of the line model with leather, large sunroof and HUD was selected.
We will see if this live up to the expectation set by a promise of 62 MPG overall.
Forgot the price : EUR40K, that is about 55K USD. Quite an amount indeed.
real life first drives seem to show it is doing pretty well around town.
However, on the road, air and tire drag prevail. Moreover, electric powertrain is not operating above 75 mph in order to preserve the battery.
Real town MPG is in the high 40s while open road mpg would rather be in the higher 30s.
0-62 MPH is announce at 8.5s.
All in all, it seems the closest US equivalent would be the Toyota camry hybrid. same power (around 200 HP) and , I speculate, same internal accomodation volume albeit stretched over a longer body. rear luggage space is around 420 Liter (13 Cubic feet?)
Consumers are increasingly choosing diesel.
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/01/diesel-sales-up-27-percent-in-the-u-s-s- ays-oem-sponsored-advocacy-group/
23 Civic Type-R / 22 MDX Type-S / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd
As for me, I could care less about hybrids, etc. TTAC is not pro-hybrid and their readers especially not; read their content overall. Besides, being pro-hybrid doesn't automatically make one anti-diesel; this isn't Congress...
23 Civic Type-R / 22 MDX Type-S / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd
New Economic Report Finds Diesel Industry Provides $480 Billion In Value and 1.25 Million Jobs To U.S. Economy
http://www.dieselforum.org/index.cfm?objectid=E1C9626E-E94D-11E0-947A000C296BA16- 3
Diesel up 27% and Hybrid down 2.2%.
Sometimes the numbers just are what they are.
Following the link you posted I really don't give credibility to profanity laced posts from someone who states they got a D in math. They also deserve a F in communication.
I don’t know what kind of engineering dream team Trident has assembled, but it’s hard to fathom how this is even possible — even with a car that runs on diesel. And though Trident has released some basic specs, they’ve been coy about what kind of secret sauce they’ve got running under the hood.
What we know so far is that the car’s relies on a 6.6-liter turbocharged diesel horsetrain that, when combined with Trident’s innovative Torque Multiplication system and proprietary transmission technology, delivers 430 bhp and a staggering 950 lbs ft of torque at under 3250 rpm. Roughly speaking, this means that cruising at a constant 70 mph, the specially tuned engine will run at just 980 rpm, produce 700 lbs ft of torque and keep on going for over 2,000 miles with just one full tank of fuel.
For an extra cost, buyers can also upgrade to a 660bhp model that delivers 1050lbs ft of torque.
The Trident will be on display at the Salon Privé 2012, an annual car show held at West London’s Syon Park in early September. The company plans to start taking orders shortly after with a starting price of $119,000.