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Hyundai Azera 2006

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Comments

  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Please be careful not to use language - implied or outright - that would cause a post to be deleted. I really hate it when that happens. :sick:
  • mechanic80mechanic80 Posts: 122
    Cabin noise is less then a 2004 Lexus ES300 I drove last year @80+mph and the ride is as good too if not better. Handling predictable and comfortable.
    Any Canadian owners out there who can turn me on to a dealer??? I'd really like to do DRL.
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    I can see someone jumping from the Sonata (loaded) to the Azera. If you are not interested in all the that fancy stuff and just want a nice V6, then the Sonata at the current sale price of $19,500 makes sense to me. I don't know if a third more for the Azera is worth it of not. Depends on needs of the individual, or the desires. I may be perfectly happy with the lesser of the two. If I am paying $30K say, there are cars like the CTS and Maxima I would also test, and would be pretty stiff competition. The Sonata is the easy knock-out in its class based on value of a V6 for less than the price of the i4 Accord and Camry. That said, not a bad idea to drive like priced or nearly like priced Japan makes too. All things considered the Azera as a buy ONLY based on value, would have to take in count a possible lower resale value. To balance to the favor for Hyundai, you have a longer warranty.

    The local dealership has several Azeras, and one or two Sonatas. They seem to sell the Sonatas as they come in.
    If I got an Azera, I would go for the base one, and at close-out time, looking for a couple to three thousand off.
    -Loren
  • hugobeckerhugobecker Posts: 45
    Over 85+, well - not admitting anything - but in the 80+ MPH region it is very quiet on the highway. Smooth roads and the thing is very comfortable - but it tends to jiggle and wiggle a bit over the sharp small bumps. That probably can be cured with monotube gas shocks and bigger sway bars (good luck finding sway bars but the shocks may be avaialble).

    My take is they could use a little more jounce damping.
  • metafizikmetafizik Posts: 6
    "there is data which now shows GM models right there near the top for reliability"

    And the US govt. says the war in Iraq is going well. No seriously I am quite sure that GM being the behemoth it is has sponsored a number of studies geared to portray that as "truth". Heck even Warren Buffet bought a caddy recently. Does that mean they are reliable or does he have a vested interest? Don't lose sight of the fact that he only commutes 5mi/day.
  • jim101jim101 Posts: 252
    Hello,

    Q1. Noise level in cabin over 85 :confuse:
    R1. Very quiet, you can talk to a passenger using your normal voice. The vehicle is well insulated all around. :shades:

    Q2. How's the suspension system in terms of comfort :confuse:
    R2. To me the suspension works better at speed then when going slow :shades:

    ushuaia, you have done your homework and know your vehicles, good job ;)

    I would tell/ask the dealer to let you drive one for an hour and take it out on the highway and put the it through your requirement parameters. If it meets them, your good to go.
  • rj123456rj123456 Posts: 140
    I was looking at all of these as well as the Toyota Camry Hybrid. Ended up getting a Lincoln Zephyr - only options missing are sunroof and NAV - for less than $27K. Amazingly quiet at high speed and a very nice suspension. Yes I know it's a glorified Fusion/Milan...
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    Actually the data indicates good reliability in most of the GM cars of which the data was taken. The problem is some of the most reliable ones are no longer in the line up. The upside is that the new cars are similar, as in engines and chassis, so it could be that those cars too will be reliable. Now the bad news, as the cars age, the GM and Fords do not fair as well as the Japan makes in year for through eight. The Consumer Report magazine has a graph of this. Now once again the good news, as current models score higher in the ratings from GM, it is hopeful that in the later years they will do better. My best guess is that while not as good as the Japan makes, they will close the gap a tad. And more good news, the GM and Ford parts are cheaper. Yeah, may have to repair more often. All in all, GM has some more basic models, like the Monte or Impala with good ol' OHV engines which produce adequate HP and gas mileage.

    So what about Hyundai? They have new engines and cars, current good ratings on reliability and a dicey past.
    They are willing to back the cars for the long warranty, and change. Both are good signs. They address issues in their cars, are not afraid to build new cars and engines, and back them with warranties. Will the Hyundai be as trouble free as a Japan make in years four through eight? No one really knows. Parts to repair the Hyundai seem reasonable enough.

    Would be very interesting to have a professional take apart an Azera, Mercedes cheapest car, a Lucerne, and both the Accord and Camry/Avalon and analyze the true quality of the parts and structure. What truly makes different cars tick?

    Content. The leader in content has been Hyundai for some years now. Safety and comfort, as well as performance on the cheap. Seems like a great value. The early years just did not go well however for Hyundai and Kia. You tell people you are even looking at a Korean car, and they tend to think you are crazy. But then again, some say the same about looking at GM cars. I actually think both brands have come a long ways to being a better car. Hyundai are fresh newer cars of better quality and GM are better older cars, with perhaps some charm of their own as well. Azera and Sonata I am sure have all the car manufacturers watching closely.
    -Loren
  • chilliwackchilliwack Posts: 189
    The notes regarding cabin noise and suspension have been right on the mark. At first, I was a bit reluctant to buy a Korean car, but after looking at EVERYTHING, I kept coming back to the Azera. I think it is very unique looking and performs very well. People are always impressed when they see it. If Hyundai takes notes from the posts on this forum, the 2007 model should be fine indeed. I have only seen one besides mine on the road. Also, it looks more refined than a Sonata in my view. The interior is far better as well. Glad I didn't get the Charger!
  • ushuaiaushuaia Posts: 10
    wow .. everybody's saying the same. thanks for the feedback
  • ushuaiaushuaia Posts: 10
    hello Jim ... thanks for the feedback, i have now all the information i want, anyway, i'm not expecting a BMW or an AUDI for 28,000 but i'm more and more convinced that the Azera is not meant to be a mass-production car ... in other words, Hyundai has put some good investment in it. i know the resell value will be low and that Hyundai will fix the few bugs in 2007 model but i need a car now and i don't care a lot about the resell value as the car is not that much expensive (i.e. i think the extra loss when selling it after 3 years is similar to the extra money i should pay now to get an Avalon/Accord/Charger with similar if not less quality and options !!!) ... what do you think?
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    What price do you expect? I am thinking around $2,500 to $3000 off on the Azera. They offer $2,000 off on Sonata V6, before negotiations.
    -Loren
  • jim101jim101 Posts: 252
    I think you have satisfied the questions in you mind???

    For what it's worth, received the questionnaire from JD Powers yesterday. Filled out the basic information, answered a few questions, but when it came to the biggest part of the questionnaire The section on problems, defects, code defects for all sections, engine, trany, interior, fit finish, sound system, knob, buttons, wheels, tires and more I could not find 'ONE' item to list, 'ONE' oval to fill in or even file a gripe. :shades: Up to that moment we had not realized how well this Azera measures up to quality' and 'reliability'.

    I can tell you for a fact that not one of the many new 'Big 3' vehicles :lemon: we have bought through the years would fair the same, not one and they became worse as they aged.

    In conclusion, we are very, very satisfied with our Korean built vehicle, very satisfied indeed. ;)
  • mechanic80mechanic80 Posts: 122
    Same here. I had nothing to fill in about defects on the survey I received. I felt so guilty that I was gonna send the dollar back but I changed my mind.
  • king123king123 Posts: 14
    I cannot wait to get the survey. I have had my Azera limited with ultimate for about ten days and cannot find anything wrong. Always things that could be improved/added, but I am very satisfied. What I like best are the other drivers on Chicago streets and expressways trying to figure out what I am driving. I have only seen one other Azera. In my fifties its kind of cool being unique. My dealer wants me to bring the survey to the dealership to complete it with my salesperson (unless its a different survey), but anyway, I get 10 gallons of free gas if I do. So, the dealership is very concerned that I am happy and that they and the car get high marks. This bodes well for the future.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 15,739
    My dealer wants me to bring the survey to the dealership to complete it with my salesperson (unless its a different survey), but anyway, I get 10 gallons of free gas if I do.

    That would be Hyundais own survey that they use to rate the dealerships. You are suppose to fill them out yourself and not with the sales person. The dealership is paying you off with the 10 free gallons of gas to assure they get full marks (by basically them filling out the survey for them). As far as I am concerned that is unethical behavior on the part of the dealer.

    2008 Sebring Ragtop, 2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • king123king123 Posts: 14
    That's exactly what I thought. But for me it is academic because I would give the dealership very high marks without the bribe. They found my car for me Black/beige in just a couple of days and honored the price eventhough it came from else where. So, I will probably go for the gas. Besides, I'm a lawyer, what can I say....
  • areza1areza1 Posts: 14
    Is there any special technique to remove the "Hyundai" and "Limited" emblems from the back of the car, or do they simply lift off ? Is a hair-dryer necessary?

    I heard there may eventually be some replacement emblems available for the "H in the circle". Any news on those?

    I'm really interested in the H-less grill, but it doesn't sound like it's the simplest of projects :P
  • plwilliamsplwilliams Posts: 96
    I was able to remove the "Hyundai" badge using dental floss. The car is new enough that the adhesive is still soft, so I didn't use any heat at all. Just get the floss behind each piece and gently 'saw' back and forth, You'll be amazed at how easy it comes off. I didn't even need to use a cleaner or wax afterwards.
  • jim101jim101 Posts: 252
    azera1, lets see if I can help.

    'Hyundai and Limited' on the trunk are in place with a double sided type tape/adhesive. To remove, DO NOT use any metal tools. My finger nail, sometimes two, was strong enough to lift the letter off. I placed them on another piece of metal to save. I then used a little mineral spirits to remove any remaining residue. Hair dryer not required, least ways I didn't need it.

    There are some after market emblems to replace the current 'H' oval on the trunk. www.dreamka4u.com has one or two. I've ordered one and will tape, paint and clear to match body color leaving the chrome outer ring. Taking the two round spring clips off the emblem on the trunk will be tricky. Lack of space to work and you have to remove the trunk liner which is fairly easy, don't forget the philips screw in the hand/finger indent.

    Dreamka4u also has the 'H' less grill. In a previous post I covered the removal and installation step by step. It is a little tricky, read over and decide if you wish to or wish not to do it.

    Dreamka4u manufactures and supplies components to Hyundai. They do not provide any instructions, you have to figure out how to do it or pay a body shop to do it.

    There are pictures of an Azera at carspace.com you can look at.

    Good day
  • areza1areza1 Posts: 14
    thanks for the tips guys

    jim101,

    i've read your step-by-step for the grill replacement, that's how i know it's not the simplest of projects :P

    and what do you mean by:

    "Taking the two round spring clips off the emblem on the trunk will be tricky. Lack of space to work and you have to remove the trunk liner which is fairly easy, don't forget the philips screw in the hand/finger indent"

    is it tricky to remove the emblem from the car because of the clips, or is it tricky to remove the clips from the emblem itself? are the clips part of the emblem or the trunk? :confuse:
  • plwilliamsplwilliams Posts: 96
    I would also like to change out the grill, as the $100-110 price tag is very reasonable, but jim101's replacement story was enough to scare me off for the time being. I wonder what the dealer would charge to do it :confuse: :confuse: Anyone have any idea?
  • sundevilssundevils Posts: 100
    I was quite happy to see in the owner's manual that the recommended service interval under normal conditions is 7,500 miles. But then I looked at the service booklet and it has 3,750 miles. Looking more closely at the service booklet shows the oil/filter R (for replace) in red, which the footnote indicates means to replace every 5,000 miles.

    Which is right?

    My bias - for every car I have owned (I have only lived in Phoenix, Tucson, and San Diego) I have always changed the oil every 7,500 miles. Mechanics have frequently praised me for taking good care of my vehicles. I just don't see any value in a more frequent change.

    By the way, when buying my car I asked about EZ-out, limp home, and auto-lock. The sales people were completely clueless. When my sales-person discussed this with service the service people were completely clueless. As we speak my car has been at the dealer since 7:30 this morning (it is now 4:45 in the afternoon) getting an exterior detail (the detail shop was closed when I took delivery on a Sunday) and getting the ez-out, limp home, and auti-lock programmed. When I called the dealer at 3:00 I was told the detailing was done and the mechanic had the hood up and was programming the features. That was nearly two hours ago. Wanna bet they don't have a clue as to what they are doing?

    One more thing - I learned today that my dealer charges $30+ for the oil change, $60+ for the 7,500 service, $200 for the 15K service, and $500 for the $30K service. Sounds like typical dealer rip-off to me.
  • jim101jim101 Posts: 252
    Hmmmm, let me start over.

    The trunk emblem, fits onto the trunk lid via two alignment pins on the back part of the 'H', not the oval. The pins are secured by two snap on star clips that you can access through the trunk.
    These clips are like the star clips that hold the wheels on a Webber or similar.

    Removing the trunk liner is easy, there are several philip plastic press center clips. Unscrew, pull plastic center out then remove the other plastic piece the center was in. There is one philips screw in the hand/finger indent that has to be removed. When done the liner comes out easy, to replace, reverse steps.

    When you get the liner out and stick your head in to look. There is a small bent piece that covers the opening to the emblem. You can use a flashlight and see the clips.

    I'm almost to the resolve that I may have to break the pins off being careful not to scratch the paint or expose bare metal. Before I do anything I will look at the new part, 'STUDIE' is on it as received, and determine how it is secured before I disassemble the stock piece.
    Some paint and clear coat on the new part should make it 'Smooth'.

    Maybe the 'mechanic' can give us some help???
  • My dealer said there was no problem using "Mobile 1 Extended" and go 15,000 between oil changes. I brought in my own oil or should I say lubricant because it is not oil, and they did the service for free. The manufactures oil is of high quality and it is probably breaking in at 3,500 miles. They did say if you are driving short miles or real hard that you should change it at 5,000 mile.
  • areza1areza1 Posts: 14
    i look forward to hearing about your experience installing the "STUDIE" emblem

    i'll probably go for the "IXION" emblem if your install goes smoothly

    i assume you ordered the Large (9.3x4.8) vs. the Medium (8x4) emblem size?
  • averigejoeaverigejoe Posts: 559
    Both cars are good values compared to their closest competitors. Spend some time in both before deciding.
    The Sonata is a nice family sedan. The Azera is a luxury car and has equipment not even available on the Sonata. Also, the styling, feel and ride of the two cars are different, way different.
    If you can appreciate those differences, you'll probably think the Azera is a steal for the extra money. It is a class or two above the Sonata. Buy and drive the Azera, you'll have a smile on your face that the Sonata would not provide
    If you can't tell the difference, don't waste your money on the Azera, get the Sonata.
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    Did take note of a better crash test score for the Sonata than the Azera. As always style is subjective. Interior looks richer in the Azera. Are the interior parts tested to last longer than the lesser priced line-up? I know a Lexus interior seems to last forever. The extra HP of the Azera would be nice.

    Don't need a navigation system. Never get lost anyway. I just take interesting alternate routes as impressive journeys - colorful adventures to interesting places never seen. OK, sometime seen when I was driving in circles one time. AAA has maps. My home computer has maps. Money saved without a navigation system install can be spent on gas. Actually, the way things are going, people may have to take out a loan to pay for gas :D
    -Loren
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    I'd like to see an Sonata coupe, with tighter suspension for $20K and that V6 engine. Hummm, let me think. The Azera lines may work well as a coupe, with a little work-over. At say $25K it would be at or under the Accord coupe. There is much to like about the Tiburon, but I am thinking the extra room and HP of a Sonata or Azera Coupe. Will see what the new sports car with RWD is priced at. And I am keeping an eye on just how tall them doors get. The ever rising door window sill, and shrinking window syndrome.
    -Loren
  • jnd17jnd17 Posts: 62
    plwilliams, did you remove the lettering AZERA on the tail lights? If you did was it the same process using the dental floss and are there any marks showing? Thank you for you past comments and instructions they have been very helpful. I plan to do the same as soon as my AZERA arrives. JoeD
  • shawalshawal Posts: 38
    Today the temperature soared upto 47C and even with the Black and Black the AirCon was happy to give me 22C in the cabin when city driving.
  • plwilliamsplwilliams Posts: 96
    JoeD, no I didn't remove the AZERA, though I have to admit that I did give it a little thought :D . I would think that the letters are attached with the same 3M type adhesive, and if so I don't think that you would have to worry about scratching or leaving any marks behind. Of course, if they are attached differently all bets are off.
    Be sure to post your experience and some photos when you do it.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 15,739
    I don't disagree with that, I pretty much said the same thing. My comments were addressed to ushuaia who said that the Azera beats the Sonata in many areas. My comment was that while it does it is at a price of several thousands of dollars. And that its up to the individual to determine if the extras that the Azera offers are worth the 3 or 5 or 10 grand more.

    2008 Sebring Ragtop, 2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    To the best of my knowledge, Sonata variants (coupe and convertible) are still in the plans. Last I heard 2008 might be a possiblity :)
  • bryan200kbryan200k Posts: 64
    You said, "One more thing - I learned today that my dealer charges $30+ for the oil change, $60+ for the 7,500 service, $200 for the 15K service, and $500 for the $30K service. Sounds like typical dealer rip-off to me.
    "

    Wow... that makes me wonder what they are servicing that would cost that much!

    Our local Hyundai dealership was recently bought out by another autogroup/owner. They have went from selling an average of 7 units per month, to over 30 in their first month. They are also offering, as they do at their other dealerships, a "Dealer for Life" program in which, for as long as you own your car that you bought from them. You get FREE oil changes, FREE washes, FREE tire rotation and their own lifetime engine/powertrain warranty.

    A friend that had worked at their Toyota dealership and then at a Hyundai dealership in another state is now working there as a salesman. I asked him if this new owner is 'for real' in making these offers. He said that they have been doing this at their Toyota dealership, for years, where he used-to work.
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    Hey, are you not proud of Hyundai and Azera? Taking off the emblems and nameplates is no way to advertise. I know it looks smoother and you don't care to advertise. Would be a good thought though to promote little ol' Hyundai. So many are out to bad mouth the cars due to thier rocky start here in the States, it would be good PR to proudly display the make and maker. Just a thought :)
    -Loren
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,934
    C/D tested the Azera SE in their July issue and says it is the fastest Korean car they've ever driven: 141 mph top speed and 0-60 in 6.1 seconds (0.1 seconds slower than the Avalon they tested). But it is as quick as the 325i they tested.

    They also noted they got 15 mpg on combined city/highway driving over 400 miles. I expect they were not being easy on the gas pedal.

    Other plusses include being quieter at 70 mph than an Avalon or Cadillac STS, comfy back seat, big trunk. They were not impressed by the handling but said it was in the ballpark with Avalon, Buick, or Lexus ES350. They also griped about the gauges and the "not-quite-terry-cloth-but-defintely-not-Alcantra" fabric.
  • jnd17jnd17 Posts: 62
    Hi Loren, I am very proud of the Azera and talk it up with all my friends and people who ask about it. I am just not one who enjoys "Advertising Badges" on my cars. I have done this to my previous cars. Between dealer logos and make and model badges they should pay us for advertising. I know it sounds foolish but it has always been a pet peeve of mine. If the car is sharp enough and has a distinguished look to it you will know what it is. There are several models of cars that just by looking at them you know what make it is. One of the problems today is that so many cars are looking so alike that you can't tell them apart without looking at the badges. I think the Azera is not one of them and once people start seeing them on the road will recognize the make without having to read the badges. Sorry for the long rant. JoeD
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    I bet they think your car is a Japan make. They do pay you to advertise. At least the Sonata seems like a giveaway price compared to an Accord. Yeah, some have the badge thing all over the place. A local dealer puts a sticker with their name on there. Will ask them what the discount or pay per year is. Maybe 15% off on oil changes or something. Here is a strange one. A friend got a Mustang with silver stripes. Problem is the color. It is on a white car. Ummm, I am thinking the stripes could have been blue. Silver is strange.

    I bet Honda is not happy about the H on the back.
    -Loren
  • ray_h1ray_h1 Posts: 1,134
    "The dealership is paying you off with the 10 free gallons of gas to assure they get full marks (by basically them filling out the survey for them). As far as I am concerned that is unethical behavior on the part of the dealer."

    You're absolutely right about that and shame on that dealer for offering ten gallons of gas! (When I bought my '03 Sonata, my dealer "paid" me off with a full tank of gas to lie like a rug...) On a more serious note, I can understand the dealers' angst at having a perfect score recorded - Hyundai's U.S. big shots consider anything less than a perfect score to be outright failure. Resident neurosurgeons aren't even held to that standard of accountability. Far be it for me to take up the dealerships' cause, but why should the dealerships unfairly take ALL the heat for failing to catch every miniscule factory QC defect? In Hyundai's dealer relations it comes down to, "Heads we win, tails you lose."
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    It's not just Hyundai, it seems to be pretty much all manufacturers as far as I can tell. They act like it's a scaled graded system to the consumer, but for the salesperson it is pass-fail. And anything less than perfect is fail.

    Personally, I think this is horrible because of the deception to the buyer in asking for scaled scores when only two choices count - excellent and anything else.

    But it is what it is. And that explains why sales people go to such lengths to request "excellents" across the board. Anything less hurts them. And I don't blame them, they did not design the system.
  • sundevilssundevils Posts: 100
    I registered my Azera today on hyundaiusa.com. In the dealer section it says, "Smart Driver coupon available from your selling dealer only." What is this?
  • richwoodsrichwoods Posts: 53
    Noise level is VERY quiet - even with the sunroof open is is much quieter than you would expect.

    Car is very smooth riding.

    Had mine since Dec 17, 2005. :blush:
  • richwoodsrichwoods Posts: 53
    Well everyone who bought an Azera is NOT going to tell you they hate thecar.

    However, I am very happy with mine except for the gas mileage. 15-16 mph - I have the AC on all the time - hit 106 here in Phoenix today. :confuse:
  • frazeefrazee Posts: 90
    Delivered on 1/31, Limited Ultimate. Sheet on refrigerator to record all "defects" and "tweaks" and "problems" to dealer at first oil change. Sheet is BLANK. Truly amazing.

    Consumer Reports, in their July issue "coming soon" section indicates they will have a review of "sedans" and lists a rather unique competitive set of Lucerne, Cadillac DTS, Accord, Azera and Camry. If they do them as a group, it is a rather eclectic selection to "compare."?
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    Do you have more than 5K miles on the car? Let us know if the gas mileage gets better with time. With 30% or less in town, mainly highway, what would you say you are getting? Hopefully around 24MPG. Gas is still expensive; at least in CA. Paying $3.39 or more per gallon for reg.
    -Loren
  • averigejoeaverigejoe Posts: 559
    Rich, what do you get if you drive only on the highway? Ever use a whole tank on the freeway yet? If so, what speeds and conditions and MPG?
  • Any of you Azera owners know whether the car has an on-board computer controlling directional stability and if so, can it be manually turned off by the driver?
  • ushuaiaushuaia Posts: 10
    thank you richwoods, i bought the azera already. the first impression is .. amazing!!! i spent the past 3 days testing and searcing for something bad in it but haven't found any yet.
    I don't want to say it's mecedes-benz or a bmw where everything is pushed to the ultimate limit but it's way better than accord, camry and ultima .. it's even better than avalon (i need to wait for next year to judge on the materials)
    ah ... i almost forgot, one thing that bothered me the most .. it's the overspeed alarm beep that starts hypnotizing me whenever i exceed 75mph .. :mad:

    is there anybody who can help shutting off this alarm without effecting the other alarms (handbreak, fuel, door, etc.)
  • ratledgeratledge Charleston county, South CarolinaPosts: 233
    t's not just Hyundai, it seems to be pretty much all manufacturers as far as I can tell. They act like it's a scaled graded system to the consumer, but for the salesperson it is pass-fail. And anything less than perfect is fail.

    Personally, I think this is horrible because of the deception to the buyer in asking for scaled scores when only two choices count - excellent and anything else.

    But it is what it is. And that explains why sales people go to such lengths to request "excellents" across the board. Anything less hurts them. And I don't blame them, they did not design the system.


    Pat - you are right on that one! Anything less than perfect means something is wrong to any "Far Eastern" maker - same for Infiniti, same for Lexus: they will fall all over themselves to get you to fill out the form all with "Excellent" in every blank, otherwise they catch %^$# from their distributor and/or the manufacturer! ;)
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