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Mercedes-Benz R-Class

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Comments

  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Edmunds has a pretty good review of the R-Class.

    R-Class

    They seem to like it a lot, but it is pricey for a loaded R500.

    M
  • rjlaerorjlaero Member Posts: 659
    I'm not into the styling direction of the R class. Too much swoopy styling that looks like a mixed bag of Chrysler, Cadillac, & MB all rolled into one. I think Audi's Q7 is a lot sexier, and would rather spend my money there. 73k for a loaded R500 is a bit steep to spend on a suedo looking van.
  • djagdjag Member Posts: 39
    The Pacifica uses a five-link independent rear suspension that was optimized in the Mercedes-Benz driving simulator in Berlin. Its architecture (not parts) is borrowed from the recently redesigned Mercedes-Benz E-Class sedan. The four-wheel independent suspension allows the Pacifica to provide a soft ride, more like a car than a truck-based SUV. There's also a standard load-leveling system that will help keep the vehicle from sagging under added weight. Parts are aluminum. (Edmunds)
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Its pretty much what I said. The Pacifica uses parts inspired by the E-Class, that previous one that is. That R and Pacifica don't use any interchangeable parts was my point. Everyone knows that a lot of the R&D was carried out by MB in Germany.

    M
  • djagdjag Member Posts: 39
    It is borrowed from the new E version "the recently redesigned" version.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Everything I've read says its from the previous E, but its really no big deal because they're very similar in layout, especially the two E's rear suspension.

    M
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Do you have any word on the R class with CDI. I would consider one with the 320 CDI engine. I may just take the leap and get an E320 CDI along with a German vacation.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    My guess based on everything pending with clean diesel would be the first quarter of 2007.

    M
  • alcarnutalcarnut Member Posts: 5
    I believe the R-Class shares the underpinning R & D from the 06 M-Class. There are actually two different lengths planned, with a shorter version targeting the European market.
  • rockypaulrockypaul Member Posts: 104
    The Pacifica uses a transverse mounted cookie cutter v-6 from the Chrysler parts bin.
    This is a front wheel drive vehicle with an auxiliary drive shaft bringing up the rear as called for.

    No Benz starts out as a front driver with the torque steer, etc. and other common traits of a front wheel drive.

    The R is based on the rear drive S-4Matic chassis with a longitudinally mounted engine layout as is proper for any performance vehicle. Add to that the always available front wheel thrust and you have the best of all worlds with the performance and feel a a road machine.

    No other model on the market today will combine so many enthusiast features with all weather safety and functionality in one luxury package.

    Call it a station wagon, a mini van, an suv or a crossover but not a Pacifica.
  • djagdjag Member Posts: 39
    If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, its a Pacifica. Made with the same suspension and drive line. The roof line looks the same and the windshield and hood. The v6 is pretty much the same in both in the 24 valve version with adjustable timing. Transversal engine placement is not the negative it once was as shown by Lexus and Accura. In snow and ice and rain it is much superior. The fit an finish of Pac is surpisingly good and the fit and finish and reliability of some new models Merc is suprisingly just well average. Chrysler seems to be controlling this design. Now if they put a Hemi in in the Pacifica it would even outrun the Merc. Merc should not be emulating Chrysler if they want to remain the luxury brand they once were.
  • mezecamezeca Member Posts: 66
    Actually, the 210 and the 211 have completely different rear suspensions. Also, the 211's rear subframe was designed for the available air suspension, something the 210 never had.
  • mezecamezeca Member Posts: 66
    Put any horsepower behind a front driver and you will feel it. Before traction control, front drive was better in adverse conditions, but with the advent of ESP, I don't think that advantage is still there.

    "Now if they put a Hemi in in the Pacifica it would even outrun the Merc".
    So what will you do when the AMG version is released?
  • djagdjag Member Posts: 39
    But the Hemi would retail for $50k less minimum than the AMG. Chrysler could sell the Hemi for $45k.
  • djagdjag Member Posts: 39
    I believe air suspension is standard on the Pacifica.
  • lovemyclklovemyclk Member Posts: 351
    I'm afraid a number of your points are completely off base. Aside from the fact that the R-Class and Pacifica share a design concept (cross-over touring vehicle), they are no more alike than different 4-door sedans in your typical comparo test from different mfgrs.

    There are NO transmission (4-sp (Pacifica) vs. 7-sp (R), which could not be more different), powerplant (the 3.5L engines are SOHC (Pacifica) and DOHC (R), are completely distinct engines with unique HP/torque ratings and are NOT "pretty much the same"), body stamping, interior component, drivetrain, suspension or vehicle dimension (116" (Pacifica) vs. 126" (R) wheelbase ) commonalities.

    Nothing wrong with the Pacifica, but it is targeted at a different buyer in much the same way an S-Class is targeted to a different buyer than a Chrysler 300. Yes, they are both 4-door sedans, but share nothing beyond this fact. BTW, would hope a 340HP Hemi could do the ol' 0-60 a bit faster than a 302HP Merc.
  • lovemyclklovemyclk Member Posts: 351
    The Pacifica uses an independent 5-link rear suspension setup (F & R) with self-leveling rear shocks, not an air suspension.
  • djagdjag Member Posts: 39
    The Limited model Pacifica has air suspension according to the literature.
  • djagdjag Member Posts: 39
    This is the correct info on the Pacifica engine. It is a 3.5L multipoint fuel-injected 24-valve V6 engine makes 250 horsepower at 6,400 RPM with 250 pounds-feet of torque at 4,000 RPM. They certainly do share a design concept since the same design shop did them both. They are saying they will have a 6 speed available in 2006.

    They are different vehicles to be sure. The Merc is 10 inches longer and the Pacifica with the 66 inch width wheel base is the widest in the industry for this style vehicle. So one is the longest and one is the widest in the industry. Imagine trying to park the Merc.
  • lovemyclklovemyclk Member Posts: 351
    I'm afraid that the only thing the Chrysler and MB 3.5L engines share is cylinder displacement. They do not share so much as a gasket! HP and Torque ratings are also totally unique to each engine. Again, an SOHC and DOHC engine are not the same :)

    I assume you mean a 66" track vs. wheelbase. The R-Class has a 65.5" front track, so not noticeably narrower. Interior shoulder room also within a fraction of an inch (60.8 vs. 60.5"). These are simply vehicles designed for different demographic segments that share a platform concept. Not quite a station wagon... not quite an SUV.

    MB may have the greatest degree of risk with their concept if the wealthier customers they seek don't find the Sports Touring concept to their liking at the price point the R-Class is offered. On the other hand, they may buy these like crazy! Time will tell...
  • lovemyclklovemyclk Member Posts: 351
    As I may have mentioned, all variants of the Pacifica have an independent (F&R) suspension with load leveling shocks in the rear. This is NOT the same as an air/pneumatic suspension. Still, the Pacifica is relatively sophisticated for it's price point... except for that 4-sp tranny!
  • djagdjag Member Posts: 39
    My local MB dealer called today and said they have a v6 model in as of Saturday. I will test drive it next week. Should be interesting.
  • ndboomerndboomer Member Posts: 20
    39.8"?????

    On a vehicle over 200"? Sounds ridiculous. Do they not expect any grown up men to drive this?
  • markc5markc5 Member Posts: 19
    For all of you wasting time trying to compare the r-series to any other car..... get over it there is no comparison. I test drove the car I am 6'0" tall and I had more leg room in the second row than I would in a standard SUV. The R500 which I test drove handled more like a sport sedan than the car it is. Very impressive. I placed my order that day. I have 3 kids and along with my wife we were all more than comfortable. I will be saying so long to my Yukon XL. No longer will my wife and I have to argue about who has to drive "the truck" We are giving up trunk space but we usually carry to much junk in it during non-trip times anyway. Has anyone else test drove the car yet? I am curious to hear other people's take on it.
  • wopelwopel Member Posts: 92
    I've driven the 350 and liked it. I am waiting for my dealer to get the 500 in to drive. In the back of my mind I wonder if the 350 is enough for that sized car? It certainly seemed to pull onto the highway well enough, but that was with nothing in it.
    There seems to be plenty of room for adults in the front and middle seats, but I didn't try the far-back seats. The air-conditioning was even good for the middle seats!
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Somone suggested this in another forum, but Mercedes should think about tweaking the standard engines for use in their SUV/Crossover vehicles. The 2007 R500 will no doubt get the new 5.5L DOHC 382hp/390lb-ft of torque V8 from the 2007 S500, but the R350's V6 should have been tweaked for a little more hp and/or torque in the R350/ML350 twins imo.

    Both "350" models need bigger standard wheels/tires, they look so "base" and puny.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    image

    Not even the R-Class will escape AMG's clutches.

    M
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Any word from MB on a 320 CDI version of the R? That seems like a no-brainer to me.
  • canes04canes04 Member Posts: 8
    Does anyone know if there will be any discounting on the R series???
    By the way, I'm going from a Pacifica to a R350. I have always been impressed by the Pacifica's concept and performance (beside the trans). The layout is probably the best in the business for a family. The R series definitely takes some cues from the Pacifica but improves on it in many ways. For a Pacifica fan this is the perfect vehicle. One point that really bothers me on the R.....the wood and leather steering wheel should be standard at that price...the front looks "cheesy" without it.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    No official word, but there was an article that stated that MBUSA would start introducing the new V6 CDI engine once clean diesel comes online and that the R, M and E were the models MBUSA was going to re-introduce diesel to America with.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    I would doubt it for the first few months, if and only if the R is a hit. From what I've heard from different forums there is a lot of interest in the R, but of course it is a mass-production vehicle so the MSRP-only stance won't last long unless something truly breathtaking happens in way of demand for it.

    Wood steering wheels are for the Lexus/Cadillac set in general. For German cars they are usually afterthoughts.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    image

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    Stunning. Without a doubt the meanest thing in family travel today. Look for this to turn up for the 2007 model year.

    M
  • drivenowdrivenow Member Posts: 45
    I am curioius when the R 63 will be available to order...It seems that the ML 63 will appear soon, and the CLS 55 appeared almost simultaneously with the introduction of the CLS 500
  • dmcmahondmcmahon Member Posts: 26
    Please link this forum to the Wagons area of the site, thanks!
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    I'd say sometime next summer since they're called the R63 a "concept for now". The production version, which will be basically what you see now, will likely debut in Jan at Detroit or in March at the Geneva show, which means a spring or summer 2006 on-sale-date.

    M
  • chirpchirp Member Posts: 194
    After waiting to see this vehicle in person after following it for so long, I finally saw it on Saturday. Am I the only one who thinks the 3/4 view of the back end with it's blacked-out glass makes it look like a hearse? I can't come to grips with driving something like that and perhaps it will grow on me, but I'll probably trade my C32 for an ML at this point. The 16/21 mileage is also disappointing. I had a lot of hopes for this R-class and unfortunately for me the aesthetics are not working at this point.
  • nedzelnedzel Member Posts: 787
    This is a very large vehicle. 16/21 is actually pretty good considering its size.
  • chirpchirp Member Posts: 194
    True, like it's cousin the Pacifica the size and AWD makes for poor mileage, but the Honda Odyssey is big and within the same weight class and is rated 20/28. I realize the Odyssey is FWD and is shy 25 horsepower, but that's a big difference! It will be interesting to see how this luxury people hauler sells. Once again, it was on my list 'cause I'm due for a new car and am a Mercedes owner, but after seeing it I have removed it from my choices because I don't care for it's looks. The mileage isn't a big concern of mine and if I buy an ML I'll be paying for poor mileage as well...
  • markc5markc5 Member Posts: 19
    I understand your feelings on the esthetics. However, given the all the looks and compliments we have gotten since we bought ours I think it is something that has to grow on you. Remember also that this is a new concept (hybrid) Already BMW and AUDI are scrambling to bring something similar to the market. My advice is don't buy the R class in Black unless you own a Funeral Home. Otherwise I think our Pewter version with macademia interior is a mean looking machine.
  • chirpchirp Member Posts: 194
    Pewter is the bomb color for sure and I must say that I stared at the nose of this thing for the longest time looking at every crease in the hood. I do like the way it drops down and the detail in the front hood lines and folds. It is very impressive. Congratulations on being the first on the block with the goods!
  • nedzelnedzel Member Posts: 787
    R class is a bit bigger. V6 R class is 4800 lbs. Odyssey is 4400 lbs.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    My advice is don't buy the R class in Black unless you own a Funeral Home. Otherwise I think our Pewter version with macademia interior is a mean looking machine.

    I agree, it does look better in lighter colors. Black makes it look too "formal" imo. The only R I'd want in Black in the R63. Hopefully Mercedes will do the right thing and make that killer Grey on the R63 concept available on all R-Classes.

    M
  • brightness04brightness04 Member Posts: 3,148
    Somewhat of a cross between a 1980's hearse and a Civic hatchback from the early 90's, if you ask me.
  • chirpchirp Member Posts: 194
    This what I can't get out of my mind:

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    image
  • headcrackerheadcracker Member Posts: 4
    16/21 is not good for any vehicle unless it is an M1Abrams tank. Don't worry I have plenty of money, but for a family hauler 16/21 really does not cut it. R63, you guys have got to be kidding. As they say in Car mag, that is the answer to a question no one asked.
    Driving dynamics in a car this size, 500 hp-if it makes sense to you go for it. One poster was absolutely right Lexus, BMW, and all the rest will have their versions of this minivan out in 1-3 years, and just like the original ML they will be superior to this minivan.
    However for 70,000$ the Honda Odyssey and Toyota Sienna shouldn't be better equipped. I really wanted to like the R class because I wanted to coddle myself and my family on our many long road trips. The R class is not 30,000 better than the aforementioned minivans. The materials in the R class aren't as good as the S, but yet Mercedes wants to charge me the same price. Can' t do it. Get a rear view camera, better leather, better materials, better and easier nav system, better ergonomic layout, bluetooth, then, like the S I will consider it worth the money.
  • djagdjag Member Posts: 39
    Hey the Pacifica has Bluetooth and Sirius.
  • rjlaerorjlaero Member Posts: 659
    I just saw the R class in person and wasn't that impressed with the overall looks.

    The vibe just throws off mini, or maybe maxi, "van". It just doesn't look cool to me and justify a 60-70k price tag. Even the pimped out AMG version doesn't look right to me. The swoopy side styling ala Cadillac and back window treatments don't look very appealing.
  • chirpchirp Member Posts: 194
    Over-promised and Under-delivered. I don't think production is going to have any problems with keeping up on the demand side. ;)
  • sam818sam818 Member Posts: 127
    I like the car.. there are only a few changes or modifications that would make it superb:
    1. Front end... just doesn't work.. too bug-eyed.. needs to be more like the rest of the Merc line.
    2. Lack of cooled/ventilated seats (am I correct on this?)
    3. Bluetooth
    4. Rearview camera
    5. Dash too "Japanese" looking, especially the center stack.. needs to take a lesson from Range Rover here.
    5. Better wood choices.... again.. look to Range Rover matt finish cherry
    6. Option to eliminate the 3rd row of seats... would make for a better load area for those that don't need the seats
    7. Soft power close for the large side doors
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Supposedly some of those features are coming for the 2007 model along with the new 382hp V8 from the 2007 S500. Not sure if there will be a 335hp R450, but around this time next year there will be a R320 CDI.

    That is a good list of things though and I'm surprised they aren't present. I too like the R and think its a good concept in need of some fine tunning.

    For some reason, none of the U.S. built Mercedes "feel" like the German built ones. The R and M feel and look like they were built to a price and more importantly ease of assembly. I've read where Mercedes supposedly brought over many of the same suppliers they use for their German built vehicles, but the materials and interior design don't have the same seamlessly intergrated feel and cohesiveness of design that other similarly priced Mercedes like the E, or CLS have.

    As crazy as I am about Mercedes, they have somes some work yet to do on their non-car products. There is no way this new upcoming GL is going to match the Land Rover Range Rover in the interior department - if the M/R are any indication. It would be nice to have a S-Class level interior on the new GL, but I seriously doubt that unless they build it "over there".

    M
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