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Comments
Unfortunetly we don't have the choices you have here in the land of the free. I would probably buy a BMW, VW or MB diesel car and one of the many small diesel PU trucks you have available in the EU. We don't have any PU trucks that are not gas hogs. fortunetly our fuel is not taxed to the horrible levels of the EU either.
We don't have any PU trucks that are not gas hogs.
I beg to differ
http://www.greenhybrid.com/compare/mileage/details.php?cid=380&graph=temp
Care to find a P/U using either a SI or CI-ICE achieving this kind of average FE in below freezing temps? Here in the states we do.
Good Luck
Wayne R. Gerdes
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Will you pay the postage to mail my copies of Science News to you? Actually, I think most of the GASOLINE SOOT articles are available online at http://www.sciencenews.org/
Apparently gasoline particulates are a major problem in India, where all the cars are gasoline, and the sky is filled with floating gasoline soot.
troy
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First to answer the question, "Why does Lupo have an override to shut off Idle Stop?" ANSWER: Same reason the Honda Hybrids have one (the econ button)... to satisfy personal driver preference. It has NOTHING to do with how hard the engine is to stop/start.
Second, for every person who bashes the Lupo (or the Prius or the Civic Hybrid), there's someone else who loves it: http://www.vwvortex.com/artman/publish/article_319.shtml
- "Volkswagen used a balancer shaft to qwell vibrations and the result is an extremely smooth engine."
- "The engine is not only unusually refined, but also has decent thrust.... with 140 Nm available between 1,800 and 2,400 rpm."
- "we never saw less than 68 miles per gallon (u.s.) during all our around town driving - pretty impressive."
- "Lupo uses the new direct shift gearbox (DSG) found in the R32, Audi TT 3.2, and New Beetle... seamless in operation and actually becomes easy to get used to since it requires no effort on the part of the driver."
- "In its interior equipment the Lupo 3L TDI is anything but a frugal economobile: The alloy doors have a sturdy feel, the seats are upholstered in the same material as the most upmarket Lupo version."
- "People buying this particular Lupo model probably aren't too concerned about high performance driving antics and in that realm the Lupo 3L TDI delivers with tremendous economy, fairly decent road manners, a very livable interior, and the satisfaction of knowing you own THE most economical car money can buy."
http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?section=article&storyid=813
Granted, the 2-seat sporty look may not appeal to you, but remember this technology can be applied to ANY body style (like say a Prius). Imagine driving your prius 20 miles in stealth mode + getting 80mpg on those long trips to the beach.
troy
On these articles on PM emissions by gas engines. I didn't find any in the link you gave me. Would you be so kind as to give me a link, if you ever come across one? I would be very interested to see what the latest developments are on this issue.
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Wrong, wrong, wrong:
- "Volkswagen used a balancer shaft to qwell vibrations and the result is an extremely smooth engine."
- "The engine is not only unusually refined, but also has decent thrust.... with 140 Nm available between 1,800 and 2,400 rpm."
- "we never saw less than 68 miles per gallon (u.s.) during all our around town driving - pretty impressive."
- "Lupo uses the new direct shift gearbox (DSG) found in the R32, Audi TT 3.2, and New Beetle... seamless in operation and actually becomes easy to get used to since it requires no effort on the part of the driver."
- "In its interior equipment the Lupo 3L TDI is anything but a frugal economobile: The alloy doors have a sturdy feel, the seats are upholstered in the same material as the most upmarket Lupo version."
- "People buying this particular Lupo model probably aren't too concerned about high performance driving antics and in that realm the Lupo 3L TDI delivers with tremendous economy, fairly decent road manners, a very livable interior, and the satisfaction of knowing you own THE most economical car money can buy."
http://www.vwvortex.com/artman/publish/article_319.shtml
Prius is still in the top three on anyone's World's Cleanest Cars that run at least partial gasoline listing....
In contrast, diesels are 30% more efficient than gasoline engines, with higher torque, and it only seems logical to choose that higher efficiency. The 80mpg Lupo is only the beginning, with a 120mpg Lupo II in development by volkswagen.
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Ford has already proved they can build a diesel with SULEV rating (same as Prius). So why not let them do it, and sell it to the american masses?
We gave gasoline engines 35 years to improve from 1970 to 2005 (99.9% cleaner). It only seems fair to give diesel engines the same chance to improve. We've given diesels 10 years so far (since 500ppm diesel arrived)... and they've made dramatic improvements... let's give them a few more years. In this instance, I think the European politicians are smarter. They're open-minded enough to give Diesel a chance to clean-up, and manufacturers like Toyota & Honda are meeting the new Euro4 specs.
Let's be like Europe, give diesel time to succeed, take advantage of diesel's 30% higher efficiency, and reduce our oil imports.
Troy
TRIVIA: For every barrel of oil imported, the yield ratio is TWO gallons of diesel vs. only one gallon of gasoline.
Well, the reasons diesel is popular in Europe really has nothing to do with "smart or dumb" politicians.
It has to do with cheaper fuel. That's it. Not because it's more efficient, or cleaner, or that the engines potentially last longer. It's cost per mile, made lower by cheaper diesel fuel.
I'm all for "clean diesels" in the USA, once the sulfur-free diesel is completely installed in the distribution system and the clean engines get here and five states stop banning diesels.
The Lupo is a very poor seller by comparison to everything else in Europe given the poor reviews. Why wouldn’t a car with an 80 + mpg rating not sell well where fuel costs upwards of $6.00/gallon? Because its drivability is junk in terms of everything else that is available in Europe.
Lastly, if you thought your 5-speed Insight was a slow automobile (0- 60 in 10.6 seconds and a 113 rev limited top speed), heaven help you in the POS otherwise known as the Lupo 3L.
Good Luck
Wayne R. Gerdes
Larsb: "Well, the reasons diesel is popular in Europe really has nothing to do with "smart or dumb" politicians. It has to do with cheaper fuel. That's it."
===========================================
I knew that. The reason I said Euro politicians are "smarter" is because they have not set emissions laws to effectively outlaw diesel cars (as did California politicians). Euro politicians are allowing diesels time to gradually improve, rather than ban them.
And as for Lupo 80MPG/3L sales, the reason they are "poor" is the same reason EV1 or Prius or Civic Hybrid sales are "poor" - Limited Production.
The truth is that VW sells every Lupo 80MPG/3L they produce, and they could easily sell more, but are limiting production (same as Toyota/Honda).
troy
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I actually said my insight is WEAK, not slow. Weak = barely enough torque to move itself down the road.
The Lupo 80MPG/3L car generates *more Torque* than the Insight (140Nm vs. 85Nm). That makes the Lupo more driveable. You don't have to shift to 4th gear, just to climb a small hill.
Or worry about emptying the battery to empty.
Plus, the Lupo can carry 5 people without making three separate trips (like my insight).
Troy
The Lupo has no distinguishing issues for VW to limit sales. It is a POS and that is why it hasn’t taken off even with $6.00 per gallon prices.
In terms of weak, the Lupo is a what, 14.5 second car to 60 mph? I don’t care if it has 1,000 Ft-Lb’s, if it cannot generate it fast enough, it is a slow POS (and it is) and thus the reason very few buy it in Europe. Read the reviews. The Euro reporters are not lying in the least.
Good Luck
Wayne R. Gerdes
If the Lupo is a "POS" then why does Volkswagen keep selling them? The Lupo style has been around since ~1996... nearly 10 years. Why would VW keep building a car that doesn't sell?
ANSWER: Because Lupos DO sell. Extremely well.
troy
"Today it is more important than ever to do what we can for the environment – for the sake of our children and our children’s children, who will be here long after we’ve gone. In 1999 my husband and I were among the first to order a Lupo 3L TDI, and we were delighted with it. It consumes very little fuel, it’s exempt from vehicle taxes for five years, it’s nippy and, very importantly, we can feel that we’re doing something for the environment. True, the 3-litre Lupo isn’t exactly cheap, but progress has its price. Some people say it’s too small for four people but it’s the perfect car for around town. We now drive our third 3-litre Lupo although sadly demand for this model seems to be fading. That will change, though, just as soon as the politicians bring taxes closer into line with fuel consumption. And let’s not stop there. How long till we get the 1- or 2-litre car?"
http://www.volkswagen-environment.de/_download/umweltbericht_2003_2004_english.pdf
"Today it is more important than ever to do what we can for the environment – for the sake of our children and our children’s children, who will be here long after we’ve gone. In 1999 my husband and I were among the first to order a Lupo 3L TDI, and we were delighted with it. It consumes very little fuel, it’s exempt from vehicle taxes for five years, it’s nippy and, very importantly, we can feel that we’re doing something for the environment. True, the 3-litre Lupo isn’t exactly cheap, but progress has its price. Some people say it’s too small for four people but it’s the perfect car for around town. We now drive our third 3-litre Lupo although sadly demand for this model seems to be fading. That will change, though, just as soon as the politicians bring taxes closer into line with fuel consumption. And let’s not stop there. How long till we get the 1- or 2-litre car?"
The 2-litre car (130 mpg highway) is coming in 2006 or 2007.
troy
Maybe to econobox Europe, not to the USA.
well, all the ecologic cars :surprise:
i think we are in a world who wants ecologic cars more than ever :lemon:
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=116314
Well, it really doesn't sound like they were production limited after all. In fact, the Lupo 3L sold so poorly they stopped production. It only averaged about 4666 units per year. The Prius has sold more units per MONTH every month for the past two years than the Lupo sold each year. Hmmm.....
Now WV has the Polo Blue Motion, which "returns a highly impressive 60 mpg on the combined European consumption cycle". Once again, people have touted this as a "Prius beater", when in fact they are trying to compare a subcompact to the midsize Prius. Let's see VW scale that technology up to a Passat or at least a Jetta sized car, and then we'll have a good comparison.
Still, I applaud VW for making cleaner high MPG diesels which they will hopefully bring to the US in 2008. It's a shame that diesel and hybrid supporters often fight each other, when in fact they are both striving for similar goals. In fact, VW has just announced a hybrid (gasoline) for 2009, and Toyota is working on diesels. Soon we'll have diesel electric cars, which combine the best of both worlds.
Isn't that highly dependent on the source of the electricity?
Another is the improvement of battery technology and range. AC Propulsion has a link to many presentations that show how EV's could be charged at night an actually relieve some peak utility burden during the day. http://www.acpropulsion.com/resources/reports.htm
Most reports, (the ones not paid for by Oil companies) show that EV's pollute less than even the best Hybrids because of the more efficient production at the power plant.
If the eestor can be produced, and that might be a big if then I believe we will see a shift in the way we view transportation. http://money.cnn.com/2006/09/15/technology/disruptors_eestor.biz2/index.htm
Thanks;
That all depends on what you mean by "help things". If your goal is to reduce pollution and you get your energy from a dirty coal power plant then there isn't much benefit. If one of your goals is reduce our dependency on foreign oil then there absolutely is a benefit. The US is 100% self sufficient when it comes to generating electricity and we do have the spare capacity to charge a large fleet of EVs. Cleaning up the coal powerplants or transitioning to "greener" sources for our energy is doable and something to work towards but its not a legitimate reason to delay EVs.
( http://www.acpropulsion.com/resources/reports.htm ) and look at the articles about Vehicle to Grid applications. Using 100,000 EV's batteries during the peak afternoon demand when everyone is at work and charging them during the nighttime hours would reduce the total grid demand. Hence less pollution from the power plants and much less from the cars.
The largest obsticle is profit. EV's use much less energy hence less cost to fill up meaning less profit. Business are in business to make money. Thank you for showing interest.