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Comments
The MSRP is $33725.00
Invoice is $30796.00
minus $4500.00 dealer cash
minus cost of accessories $529.00 (MN prices installed)
= You bought the Ridgeline for $529.00 UNDER invoice - About $8000.00 off MSRP.
10 k off (in cash or cash + financing) isn't exactly giving a 34000 msrp vehicle away especially when you may be very lucky to trade it in on something else (or more accurately, for cash) for $ 20000 in 12 months. Numerous members on the ownersclub forum have bought used 07s and 06s from dealer retail for kbb wholesale (trade in) value or less.
I'm not telling you every dealer in every city will line up to drop his pants for 10k off for emailing him, and I'm not going to email 100 even of the 1000 or so honda dealerships around the 100 or so major metropolitan areas and some in the stix so you can consider yourself the victor on this one mplshondadlr.
Good luck
--jjf
You may not get iti in your area but the concept that 10k off (especially including favorable financing) is pie in the sky is mistaken."
The proof is in the pudding -- be prepared to put your money where your mouth is. Here is a challenge for you, the expert: Get a verifiable quote from ANY dealer in the United States for $10k off the MSPR + the low rate APR option. Email me the dealer name so I too, using my email can get the same quote. It must also be verified with a phone call to the person who sent you the quote. If it's true and verified, I will buy the Ridgeline on the spot.
I'll be waiting...
The truth is you're going to say, "I don't have to prove it" but you the expert knows it can be done. Not only will you not provide proof but you'll also try to disparage me for calling on to the wool.
Been tracking inventories in my area from dealer websites past 2 months, and it is an absolute train wreck waiting to happen out there before the 2009s come out. Based on July sales pace in my area there is 22 months of inventory among the 5 dealers within 150 miles of me.
Nice -- I'm creating fear? What ever, take the tinfoil hat off. My dealership has just three Ridgelines left for the 2008 model year. Thats it, nothing else in-bound. In the Minneapolis area there are fewer then 25 2008 Ridgelines left to serve 3+million people.
Right now every Honda dealer is offering the Ridgline $5300.00 UNDER invoice which is close to $8k off of MSRP.
As far as my comment, you siad "Dont listen to other people, you can not get $10000 off the MSRP. If you hold out for that kinda pricing, you'll be a forever shopper, never a buyer."
As far as I am concerned, if I do not see $10,000 off MSRP and I don't get to buy one, then that is fine as well, as I won't be the loser in the end. Even at $10,000 off MSRP, I would be taking a big hit in resale value later, but I would feel I got a quality vehicle for a "reasonable value" considering the economic conditions.
I think $10,000 off MSRP is possible, considering consumers have been getting $7,000 - 8,000 off MSRP religiously for the past couple of years. Now that gas is up big, and we are in a recession, then I would say $10,000 off MSRP is fair. If Honda takes a hit, then maybe they will hire a better economist to manage supply and demand.
Regardless, you're going to continue to think what you want no matter how much I try to educate people about actual costs.
Here in the Twin Cities we may have fewer available because we have a climate for 4wd vehicles. Afterall, our winters last from late Ocober to mid April :mad:
"My question to you is would you pay top dollar on a Ridgeline trade-in, or even above KBB trade-in value?"
No. But the more you reduce the selling price of a new one, the more you reduce the wholesale value of a used one. At some point the market will adjust.
"Honda would be a lot better off with the Pilot and Ridgeline if they would just price them really competitively up front, limit supply, and not offer any dealer incentives at all, other than maybe sales incetives for selling the most in your region or something."
I AGREE!
Lastly, we are not in a recession, last quarter the United States experienced 1.9% growth and gas prices are falling as we speak. As you know, we have to have to quarters of negative growth yo be in a recession.
As I said earlier, $8K off MSRP for a Ridgeline is still an awesome deal!
Thanks for the conversation. I hope you'll get your deal and become a happy Ridgeline owner
Thanx,
T-Bird
Care to share the name of the dealer? I got no where near that at the end of July from Dealers from Kansas City to St. Louis.
Thank you.
Honda's (or any other nameplates) discounts do not reduce wholesale prices, or the other way around. A weak demand in the used market usually indicates a weak demand in the new vehicle market. The ridgeline had a trade in value since its intro of about 10000 from msrp. Thats where the used ones would move. Honda found it had to discount the (majority) of the new stock 6000 around july to clear the way for the new RL's (and pilots)
The dodge Ram 1500 msrp 40000 has a trade in value of 20000 12 months after purchase. They regularly sell for 12000 off all year (to people who don't buy many cars and can't believe 12000 off) and for 15000+ off to those a bit smarter. Still deals nothing to write home about. Thousands of knowlegable wholesalers making bids on what the car actually demands in the marketplace in as new condition as possible (about 12 months) shows a much different picture. MSRP is a figure concocted by marketing and printed on a piece of paper.
Why would honda put a 31000 msrp on a Pilot for years that they could only move most for in june for 24000? Why did they sell many of the 24000 msrp 07 accords for 20000 or less? Why no customer $2000 rebates on tv? (other than the so called brand image a smart move if one can do it).
Simple. Research (actually dealers know) has shown for years that about 20%+ of walk in buyers (non internet with few or no compeitive bids from other dealers) pay msrp. Admittedly this may contain its share of $100 wheel lock and undercoat packages for $1000 included in this. Most car buys are also made during some sort of duress. This has been true for years. Walk in buyers may provide less than 40% of a dealerships unit sales but 60-70% of the profits.
Also in a perverse sort of way buyers who get deals on the better end of the spectrum give mediocre to poor buyer surveys while people who get royally screwed tend to report the best "buying experiences".
Pay $5000 more than the average guy for a vehicle and 4000 for extended warranty, wheel locks and vin etch and "pro pack", finance for 72 months at 8% with great credit and I guarantee one will be bragging about how quickly they were processed, the whole experience was "painless" , how floor mats,cargo tray, net etc were just thrown in and the whole experience took less than half an hour!. Our salesmen took a whole hour to demonstrate all the features and took us all to Mcdonalds! He filled our glovebox with his best glossy cards to give to our friends who he hopes are as good cultured and intelligent customers as we are! I would highly recommend ACME motors of Walla Walla Washington and gave them great marks on the factory's dealer survey. We even wrote in great comments about our salesman Jerry's great attitude in his struggle with his Wife's illness and child's cerebral palsy (In actuality, the picture on Jerry's desk came with the pictureframe)
Any attempt by any manufacturer exec to reduce msrp's to reflect "real world" values would not only be impractical in most cases (sales vary greatly by region) but would wind up with said exec winding up with Hoffa.
8k off a Ridgeline is in no way a giveaway. 8500 off a pilot this summer either. Most of the inventory accumulated until June and was blown out at 6000-7000+ off msrp for years, and this was with $2.00 gas. (Still, about 25% of the inventory moving close to msrp the 1st 6 months)
10000 off msrp is more like it (probably possible including cash and favorable financing on the RTS and above trims) and no great shakes for a likely trade value in 12 months of 13000 off sticker if lucky. They only make 50000 of this niche vehicle a year, so maybe they might be able to finesse the inventory down, but the SUV mkt is against them.
Obviously shoot for as much off as possible within 200 miles of your locale and take the best bids you can get if your really want one. Just don't buy it because at 8000 off it is a great once in a decade bargain you can't pass up because it isn't at that price.
Good luck
--jjf
In order to get 10k off MSRP Honda would have to offer $6500.00 in dealer cash. I doubt very much they would ever offer that kind of money
Regardless, you're going to continue to think what you want no matter how much I try to educate people about actual costs.
Here in the Twin Cities we may have fewer available because we have a climate for 4wd vehicles. Afterall, our winters last from late Ocober to mid April
"My question to you is would you pay top dollar on a Ridgeline trade-in, or even above KBB trade-in value?"
No. But the more you reduce the selling price of a new one, the more you reduce the wholesale value of a used one. At some point the market will adjust.
"Honda would be a lot better off with the Pilot and Ridgeline if they would just price them really competitively up front, limit supply, and not offer any dealer incentives at all, other than maybe sales incetives for selling the most in your region or something."
I AGREE!
Lastly, we are not in a recession, last quarter the United States experienced 1.9% growth and gas prices are falling as we speak. As you know, we have to have to quarters of negative growth yo be in a recession.
As I said earlier, $8K off MSRP for a Ridgeline is still an awesome deal!
Thanks for the conversation. I hope you'll get your deal and become a happy Ridgeline owner
All I'm doing is sharing information, and trying to dispell some of the vast misinformation spread on this board. If you do not like/need the information, don't read it.
I have been with Honda for six years and have no reason what so ever to misrepresent anything here on this board. None.
50 Significantly Changed and New Features
Exterior Styling and Features
Grille (design)
Front bumper (design)
Rear bumper (design)
Headlight (color)
Taillight (color)
Bed tie-downs (two additional, eight total)
Integrated trailer hitch (new for RT, RTS and RTL)
7-pin trailer wiring connector (new for RTS and RTL)
Daytime running lights (new)
Three new exterior colors
Fog lights (RTL)
18-inch Alloy Wheels (RTL)
4WD emblem (design)
Powertrain
Horsepower and torque (increased)
Magnesium dual-stage intake manifold (previously aluminum)
Camshaft (tuned for low-end torque)
Intake valves (larger)
Starter motor (ultra-fast)
Transmission gear ratios (lower for better acceleration)
6-degree crank pulse sensor
Airflow meter within the air intake tract
Optimized engine block coolant passages
New EGR valve
Interior Styling and Features
Steering wheel design
3-D-look speedometer, tachometer and IP meter designs
New front seat active head restraints
New trip computer
New MP3/WMA compatibility
Auxiliary audio input jack (RTS and RTL)
Cloth seating materials (RT and RTS)
New black interior color
Power lumbar support (RTS)
Carpeted floor mats (RTL)
New integrated rearview camera (RTL w/Navi)
New Bluetooth HandsFreeLink (RTL w/Navi)
New multi-information display (RTL w/Navi)
Interior color schemes (revised)
Air conditioning controls (more ergonomic)
Air condition display (larger icons)
Clock display (enhanced)
Headlight switch (recessed, more ergonomic)
Door handle design (more integrated appearance)
Sunroof button (improved)
Cruise control button (improved)
Accessories
New motorcycle bed extender
New bed-mount bicycle attachment
New 18-inch accessory wheel
New Bluetooth HandsFreeLink adapter
Accessory grille (restyled)
New Front lower air deflector
Still missing are these important items:
-Power passenger seat.
-Memory controls for seats and mirrors.
significant for me would be an increase in fuel economy
maybe some more comfort in the back seats.
Integrated trailer hitch (new for RT, RTS and RTL)
Daytime running lights (new)
Three new exterior colors
Fog lights (RTL)
18-inch Alloy Wheels (RTL)
Horsepower and torque (increased)
New black interior color this is key for me
I rode for some hours in the back seat of our 2006.
The bottom of the seat is ok, but the back is somewhat hard. Worse, it is too straight up. If it would only be reclined more, it would be much more comfortable. With the seat back not movable, I would think it could have more of a recline. It might reduce the legroom, but I think the loss of a couple of inches would be worth it in comfort.
With the information posted on the various discounts for the 2008 model, I am trying to make a decision on whether to hold out for a 2009, prices unknown.
Any general thoughts on what Honda dealerships will do price wise once the 2009 MSRP numbers become available? Does Honda typically offer any incentives (rebates, financing, cash to dealers, etc.) at the start of a model year? I checked the local inventory of 2008 models and there are 104 within 30 miles of my zip code in AZ. My sense of reading the postings in this Forum is the Ridgeline is not moving very well in most parts of the country. That being said, how will that effect the pricing for the 2009 model? Thanks for any feedback.
With that said, I expect discounts to be available on all type of SUV/trucks.
Why take and year-end 2008 that has depreciated, when a 2009 offers improvements along with a discount by the holidays. The financing rates may be better for a 2008, that what will be offered for the 2009.
Just my two cents.
I'm guessing the '08's will be heavily discounted in the fall when you would typically see few remaining.
MSRP for the Ridgeline didn't last much past the initial release of the vehicle. I think Honda misjudged what the masses would be willing to pay for this truck - and that was before the sudden rise in fuel prices.
Offered price for an RTL with navi :26394+TTL. (MSRP:35760) -$9366 Below MSRP
Offered price for an RTX is 20650+TTL (MSRP 29170) - 8520 below MSRP
The price above include all fees (Doc fee, Dealer fees etc). Only extras are Tag, Tax and title
Is this a good deal?
Truck Price: 20650
Tax, Tag:1300
Total out the door:21,950
I also got 0.99% financing for 36 months
1% apr for 36 was just icing on the cake
Using the Edmunds price quote function today, I have so far received RTX "bids" of $22,033 and $21,133. One specifically says (and I believe it is true for both) that it includes destination charge. I see the MSRP with Destination Charge is $29,170 according to Edmunds. Bottom line: with almost no work at all we are at $8,000 off MSRP.
However I prefer to ignore MSRP and just get as many "bids" as possible and then work down from there. As far as I am concerned, invoice and MSRP are meaningless--just find out the real world price through multiple "bids" and negotiate from there.
I do believe in the old advice about shopping at the end of the month or end of the quarter, buying at the end of a model year, etc. Buying a car involves micro- and macro- economic decisions whether I know about them or not.
I may not have made it clear, but the point is this: Dealers "invest" almost nothing in the cars they sell (though they obviously pay a great deal to have the infrasctructure surrounding all those cars they don't own).
The bottom line is that if I spend $1,000 to have a car sit on my lot, sell it to you for $25,000, then pay Honda $20,000 for the car only after I have received the money from you then I am making a very, very high return on my investment--$1,000 invested (the floorplan fee) returned me $5,000 in a few weeks or months.
The obscurity of floorplanning will sometimes lead to the following sales pitch:
A salesman says, "How much profit should a dealer make?" Hoping you will say a "low" figure of 5%, he will happily take the "dealer invoice" and add 5%. Or he might say, "Shouldn't car dealers make as big a profit as a grocery store?" Grocery stores are famous for low margins on their inventory. The salesman will want to show you the "dealer invoice" and add a "reasonable" profit--all of which is meaningless if you know about floorplanning.
I will let the dealer worry about his profit while I worry about getting the best price.
For us, we just built a brand new 30 million dollar store. It's not cheap to build a nice facility that should last 30 plus years while also creating a warm and inviting enviorment that is up to Honda specs. Meanwhile, other Honda dealerships in Minneapolis have aged facilities with 25% (or less) of our overhead, so these dealerships can really offer better deals. The lower the overhead the less profit needs to be made. Less profit equals a better consumer deal.
"The bottom line is that if I spend $1,000 to have a car sit on my lot, sell it to you for $25,000, then pay Honda $20,000 for the car only after I have received the money from you then I am making a very, very high return on my investment--$1,000 invested (the floorplan fee) returned me $5,000 in a few weeks or months."
That really doesn't happen. If you think we're making $4000.00 on a car, you're WAYYYYYY off base. At least in Honda - Chrysler or GM, maybe.
However none of this means anything to you. You are a consumer, looking out for number one: YOU. I don't blame you. As a consumer I do the exact same thing. Except I tend to pay more for good service. For me, it's not always about price. Anyone can cheap sell you something, that doesn't mean they have a right to earn your business. I'm more then happy to pay a bit more to buy from a place that is well kept, where the people are well trained and friendly. Again, thats just me.
Good luck and happy shopping. Oh, BTW - I just bought a black RTX for $22999.00 plus TT&L AND got 2.9% for 60 months.
You must occassionally (20% of the time?) make $4,000 (or much more) above "dealer invoice" on a car, right? And you seem to be conceding my main point, right?
Let's say it is just $1,000 "profit" above the $1,000 floorplan expense; you make a 100% return on your "investment" (the floorplan cost) in a month or two. I'm getting 5% return or less on my savings account in one year. Yes, you built that beautiful showroom at great expense. Now why would you do that? Was it to lose money? Are car dealers not among the most successful and wealthiest people in any city? How is that?
One of the interesting things about the car business is that we are not allowed to buy directly from the manufacturers (Honda, GM, Ford, whomever). Powerful lobbies create closed shops state by state and require that cars (among many things) be sold by local retailers. Why can't we order our Accords from Honda America instead of John Doe Honda of Dallas? The dealer lobby is EXTREMELY powerful because it is extremely wealthy. It takes money to make money, I guess.
Texas used to have a law prohibiting branch banking. Consumers suffered for years, but the local owners of banks benefited from an artificially restricted market. Third world countries require you to have a local partner when doing all kinds of business. It helps the local partner, but it does consumers no good.
FREE THE MANUFACTURERS!
Okay, don't worry. I'm half-joking.
By the way, congratulations on your new car. I like the RTX part, but black is a slightly less popular car color in Texas due to our wonderful summer heat. With global warming, I'm sure I'll be moving to your part of the country soon.
That $1000.00 is called gross profit. On that thousand subtract 25 or 30 percent (depends on the commission scale). The on average you have about $144.00 per car in advertising. Then you have about $250.00 per car in admin expense (office staff, attorney fees because you have them on retainer, ETC...). Finally you have facility investment which is about $350.00 per car on a 30M building. That leaves about $6 in net profit.
Everyone knows dealers have lost the margins in new car sales. But, the used car sales, F&I office, service, parts and accessories - thats the profit center.
Speaking of global warming, we haven't had much of a summer here and a really bitter winter last year, so I might be heading south.
It sounds as if new cars are the razors while used cars, F&I, service, parts, etc., are the razor blades--at least for now.
Speaking of global warming, we haven't had much of a summer here and a really bitter winter last year, so I might be heading south.
We all may need to set it up like my aunt and uncle: condo in Austin, Texas, for the winter, condo in Madison, Wisconsin, for the summer. I don't know how they decide on spring and fall. It helps to be retired, of course.
SUMMARY
$ 21,245 Truck
$ _1,328 Tax
$ __ 227 Title, etc.
$ 22,800 Out The Door (OTD)
I have no idea whether that is a good deal or not. I just know that nobody I talked to would take less than that, and tomorrow everything could be different.
DETAILS
The color is Silver. No add-ons to the car that I am aware of, and nothing is listed on the window sticker. (Several salesmen told me that Honda "requires" add-ons. So much for that.)
This section is all information from the window sticker:
$ 29,500 MSRP
$ _1,000 RTX Discount
$ 28,500 MSRP Less Discount
$ ___635 Destination and Handling
$ 29,135 Total Vehicle Price
This section is from Edmunds.com:
$ 28,500 MSRP
$ ___670 Destination Charge [Please note the $35 difference from above.]
$ 29,170 Total
Tax on a car in Texas is 6.25%.
Title, license, etc. varies but estimate at $177; anything above that is probably a dealer add-on fee (i.e. a phony "fee"). You could negotiate the add-on fees away, but since I was negotiating from the Out The Door price, I didn't care.
This section is from the Bill of Sale:
$ 21,245.10 Price (Vehicle and Equipment)
$ ________ Trade In [I had no trade in.]
$ ________ Rebates
$ _1,327.82 Sales Tax [6.25% on cars in Texas]
$ ___ 44.53 Vehicle Inventory Tax
$ ___ 70.80 License Fee
$ ___ 33.00 Title Fee
$ ________ Road/Bridge Tax
$ ___ 23,75 State Inspection
$ ___ 50.00 Documentary Fee [dealer add-on fee, I assume]
$ ____ 5.00 Deputy Fee
$ ________ Luxury Fee
$ 22,800.00 TOTAL [Out The Door (OTD) price.]
The $22,800 is the number we negotiated by. I ignored MSRP, dealer invoice, dealer holdbacks, super-secret holdbacks, etc.
I called every dealer within 75 miles and some in Austin. I asked for someone in "Internet sales." After getting quotes from everyone, I called back the best 4 or 5 to see if they could do better. I never gave away my favorite color; I just said "it depends on the price." I got prices for the RT, RTX, and RTS in order to be able to negotiate with flexibility. I visited two dealers with my checkbook fully prepared to buy immediately.
Ultimately, I was surprised to find that the first phone quote was always firm--nobody would ever go lower even if I showed up with my checkbook and even after I walked away from two different dealerships. Still, I would again go through the extra work of negotiating and walking away because that is the only way I know of to be somewhat certain that you have gotten the dealer's best price.
Someone (probably someone who works for a dealer) might say that of course they wouldn't go lower, you got a great deal. Dealers ALWAYS say you got a great deal--what else COULD they say? But not going lower is not what surprised me; what surprised me was getting the best and only price by phone just by asking for "Internet sales." It was so "easy" that I have to assume there is something wrong--like maybe I overpaid.
By the way, I walked away from the first dealership when they wouldn't go lower than $24,500 OTD for the RTS. That OTD would be for a sales price of about $22,850. I walked away from the second dealership when they wouldn't go lower than $22,800 OTD for the RTX. After getting home, I decided to buy the RTX instead of the RTS; I would have enjoyed the upgrades, but I was happy to save $1,700. I'm pretty sure the first dealer would have had the best price on the RTX, but they were out of them as were numerous other dealers. There are lots of RTSs out there, but very few RTXs as far as I could find.
Also by the way, I knew before they told me, but several salesmen told me on the phone, when they couldn't beat a price I quoted, that I would get to the other dealer and the price quoted wouldn't include add-ons and other fees, that the other dealer was using (this is my phrase) bait and switch tactics. I found that dealers DO try to use bait and switch to a greater or lesser degree. I tried to minimize this by covering that idea on the phone. For example, I might ask, "Does that price include all fees and everything? Is it the true Out The Door price?"
Another by the way, I never had anything in writing at any time. All I had were my notes. I consider the whole "get it in writing" idea a distraction. If I show up with my checkbook and an offer, that is all that matters. A piece of paper from another dealer means nothing to the dealer I am talking to. His best price won't go lower just because some other dealer puts something in writing--why should it? All the dealers SAY they will beat the other dealers' best prices, however all but one of them has to be wrong.
My apologies for the long post.
T-bird
You also give good advice on how to negotiate... In the forums, we need breakdowns of the total price, as taxes and fees vary between states... but, once you decide on what you want, then OTD negotiations are the way to go... It's hard to play around with the number that goes on the check!
regards,
kyfdx
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Wheather you get a 2008 or wait for the 2009, I believe there will be deep discounts on the 2009 once they are released, since oil is claimed to climb back up for the winter. If it means moving these trucks, heavy discounts will be the only way.
In this world of releasing '09 models in early '08 or even in '07 it's kind of refressing to see an '09 actually release in '09.
It doesn't do your dealers any good to force feed them inventory when they are drowing in aging inventory out there.
In this world of releasing '09 models in early '08 or even in '07 it's kind of refressing to see an '09 actually release in '09.
It doesn't do your dealers any good to force feed them inventory when they are drowing in aging inventory out there.
I wonder if the '09 will have an MSRP more accurate to what the market will bare.
I have received numerous responses re the '09 release date. The rep at Honda America said there was a delay with no release date set. I have two local dealers saying they each have two '09 models enroute and due next week at their dealership. I have two others saying the release will not occur until late December or January. I have another saying late October which is similar to the info in #732. Time will tell on who is accurate.
WRONG! Two 2009 Ridgelines just hit the lot today. Not a moment too soon either, we're down to our last three 2008 Ridgelines.
Honda's web site just changed to the 2009 as well.
-They've got several hundred tons of 2008 inventory.
-They are car salesmen, and they do that.