Toyota Prius Software Problems

pennmom · July 2005

I wanted to let you know my dealer today told me that he spoke to Toyota, and they are replacing the computer in my car. He is not sure how long it will take to receive the part, but hopefully only a few days. He said my car already had the software upgrade (prior to this incident) that has caused problems in other cars. I still love my Prius but it will take me a while to regain confidence in it. I also wonder how expensive this type of repair would be if I was out of warranty!

Sylvia · July 2005

Great news!

loverand · July 2005

Surprisingly, I had a very similar experience the other day.

I ordered my Prius in 2000 -delivered in March 2001. Over the years, I've encountered several problems including continuous replacement of tires, windshield crack, decrease in mileage...you name it. I've never experienced any problems with any other vehicle I've ever owned. I've managed to correct those but here's my latest:

I was leaving a store parking lot and attempting to start the car-it wouldn't start. All of my warning lights came on (exclamation point/yellow triangle, car battery, check engine lights, brakes, etc...) After four tries, it finally started. I proceeded out of the parking lot down a small grade hill and it seemed as if I was "coasting" into traffic...it was driving very differently. I managed to coast into a gas station and it stalled. I sat for sometime and tried again. The car started after a few more tries and I proceede but then I stalled at a red light. Finally, I managed to get to my destination but upon leaving (to take it to the dealership) I had an accident...in the driveway. I was doing a 3 point turn...hit the acceleration pedal to move forward (no more than 5 mph) and when I hit the brakes (to back up) it didn't stop. (The car seemed to continue acceleration and didn't stop until I hit into the garage wall as if the brakes weren't working.) I know I hit the brakes as hard as I could. Thankfully, no one was injured and the car is now at the dealership for repairs. My insurance estimates approx $3100 damage to my vehicle and more for repairs to the house/garage/lost items and they put me in a rental until repairs are complete.

However, the dealership is saying that my vehicle was "low on fuel" and shows no signs of any other problems. I know that couldn't be the problem as I had two bars of gas left when the accident happened. I've read other posts with similar problems but I haven't read a solution to it yet. I plan to get a second opinion at another dealership/different tech but does anyone have any other suggestions? This is not the first time this has happened (all the warning lights coming on for no apparent reason) but this is the first time it's caused me to have an accident. Any insight? What is happening?

blane · July 2005

loverand:

Is there even a remote chance that you may have accidently pressed the accelerator instead of the gas pedal? That is a very common cause of such low speed collisions in all cars. It's called operator error. Most such operators are surprised to find that they may have been in that situation.

falconone · July 2005

Was your Prius a 2001 model? I haven't heard of any issues with software. I did hear about a steering rack issue though. I agree with Blane. Unfortunately it may have been operator error.

loverand · July 2005

Thanks for responding. It is a 2001 model. I am sure that I hit the brake pedal-as hard as I could. Had I hit the accelerator, I believe alot more damage would have occured and subsequently hit my daughter and my ex who were in direct path (in the garage.) So no, I don't believe it was an operator error. Not that it makes much of a difference, but I've maintained a clean driving record (not even a speeding/parking ticket.)

I spoke to the service tech just a minute ago, and he's stumped at the data/codes that came up. There were two engine computer codes (p3191 and p3101) and two hybrid computer codes (204 with information code 1 and 205 with information code 0.) Allthough he did his best to explain what that means, I don't think he knew any more than I did. He said the last two hybrid codes contradicted themselves. He also said there was an ABS brake code but didn't have that info handy. (He had turned the paperwork in to mgt and was telling me off the top of his head.) He thinks it was ABS C1259. I'm going to pick up a copy of that paper work this afternoon and have a tech at Atlanta Toyota to look at it. Thankfully, he didn't reset anything yet. Does this make sense to you? Have you seen this before?

molokai · July 2005

Hi.. Are you referring to Atlantic Toyota on Long Island? If so, there service department is not the best. I wish I knew more, but I am only familiar with the 2004+ models. I have an extended warranty for good reason. I hope you have one too!

loverand · July 2005

Actually, I was referring to Atlanta Toyota in GA where I bought the car, but that's great info to know for anyone living in that NY area! All though Atlanta Toyota is where I've had it serviced regularly since purchase and they are more familiar with me/the car, I had to consider the closest location (as well as the safest and least expensive way to get it there.) The tech at Sandy Springs Toyota seems polite enough and willing to help me in getting that second opinion. He's even going to send a copy of the paper work to the other dealer tech himself. Kudos to him! It's never a good experience when something like this happens, but it sure makes it easier when you get good service! Thanks again!

I'll inform y'all of the outcome of the situation...in case this happens to someone else in the future. I'm so new to this site and I'll keep reading...Very Helpful!

pennmom · July 2005

I know what it feels like to have the car go haywire, as it did when my 2004 stalled. You should consider reporting this to the National Transportation Safety Highway Administration, as I did (see: nhtsa.dot.gov). I filed a report on my incident, and I received a personal email back 1 day later asking me for additional information. I think it is good for this to be investigated and resolved before (hopefully) someone is hurt. My new computer for my car is supposed to arrive Friday 7/28; I will be getting my car back after 10 days, and I am praying that it is okay now.

stevedebi · July 2005

I started this topic to discuss the software issues, but we have to remember that sometimes it is the hardware that fails. Occasionally the CPU just goes bad. Let's hope that is what is occurring here with the 2005 and the 2004 that had the software updates already.

Thanks to all for posting your experiences, here and with the NHTSB.

templedancer · July 2005

HELP! I JUST bought a 2002 Prius and upon driving it for the first time since purchase, the MFD froze up---the dealership says it needs to be replaced, but since I didn't buy it from the dealership there is no warrantee to cover it. They quoted me $3800 plus labor. I don't have that kind of money since I literally JUST signed the papers for the loan on the car and gave the bank my down payment TODAY. Can you believe the luck??? Does anyone know where I can get a remanufactured MFD as mentioned in the previous post? My car has the GPS system. THANKS

falconone · July 2005

Geez.... $3800 ! That's insane!! I am surprised you didn't get a warranty with it. I would never buy a used hybrid without a warranty. When I buy the 06 you better believe I am gonna get the extended warranty. $985 well spent!! Good luck to you!

gagrice · July 2005

I would try to give it back to whoever you bought it from. Maybe get a hold of the bank before the check clears the bank. You were had I have a feeling. I would imagine the NAV system is integral with the MFD. Will the car run properly without the MFD? If not Toyota may have to cover it under the 8 yr 100k mile PZEV warranty. You may just be out of luck unless someone out there is rebuilding the unit that is broke. Good Luck,

railroadjames · July 2005

Be quick to get intouch with Toyota and see if there is a possibilty of "Warrantee" coverage. I'm surprised that the dealer failed to steer you in that direction. Gagrice(Gary) is right too ...You need to investigate more avenues.
Railroadjames(Good Luck)

mtorres1 · July 2005

Hi guys. I wouldl ike to buy a Prius, but would like to know if anyone has experience problems with the LCD going dark in Arizona. Like when you leave a calculator or cellphone in the car too long, and it goes dark. Thanks,
Maria

railroadjames · July 2005

In Arizona, Cal., and Nevada I'd say, with extreme temps anything can (and usually does) happen. I once left my sports car in the sunny parking lot at a motel in Vegas and several items were destroyed by the inside the car temperatures. My speaker grills completly melted into mush! As to electronic equipment I'd say that extreme temperatures SHOULD cause trouble with them as should be expected.
Railroadjames

mtorres1 · July 2005

Well, I ended up buying it tonight, and I need help already. How can I set the LCD to display the engine status? It just turns off after a few seconds. Pressing display while it is off doesn't do anything, but pressing the other three buttons brings up the appropriate menu...thanks,
Maria

falconone · July 2005

If you press the info screen it should bring up the picture of the engine, battery and four wheels. It should stay on until you go to another function (NAV if you have it). If you press climate, audio, it will bring you to the appropriate screens.

pennmom · August 2005

I finally received my dead Prius back after 10 days in the shop. They told me that it was not the computer that was bad, but a fuse/transponder that had blown and had to be replaced. They did tell me that they also replaced the ECU (computer). So far it is driving ok, but I am definitely keeping my eye on the battery level at all times now. Hopefully, as time goes on I will regain confidence in it.....

molokai · August 2005

Please keep us in the loop. Iv'e never heard of that happening before.

jprice · August 2005

They told me that it was not the computer that was bad,... They did tell me that they also replaced the ECU (computer).

Huh??

jprice SoCal '05 Silver, #1, 6400 miles, [non-permissible content removed]. mileage 46.7MPG

dmathews3 · August 2005

a thousand off sticker, is it possible the price is dropping or is it because people are waiting for the tax credit availible on the 06's? :P

pennmom · August 2005

Are you asking why they replaced the computer? I'm not sure -- In fact, one service person told me that the computer was not replaced, but the manager insisted that it was and showed me that the part number was listed on my service order. They had never heard of a transponder going bad either -- however, let me tell you, that it rendered the car completely powerless, whatever it was.

jprice · August 2005

Are you asking why they replaced the computer?

They said the computer wasn't bad - and they replaced it? Do they talk to each other?

jprice SoCal '05 Silver, #1, 6600 miles, [non-permissible content removed]. mileage 46.7MPG

stevewa · August 2005

I was getting the P3191 on our 2002. There IS a TSB on these codes (P3191 and P3101). Basically there are three possible fixes:

1. Fuel Pump due to insufficient fuel pressure. Fix is to replace the fuel tank. The pump is integral to the tank.
2. Circuit Opening Relay. This appears to be the relay that allows the gas engine to start. Toyota charges about $50 for this part but you can get it at a local parts store for under $20. Installation is trivial.
3. Engine Computer. This is only required if the computer is of a certain age...my 2002 computer was newer...but your 2001 may be within the range that it would be a candidate for replacement.

Tell the dealer to look at TSB EG011-03.

None of these explain your brake failure, however.

tomzpri · August 2005

Looks like the government investigation of the stalling problem is continuing

Investigation of Prius Stalling

falconone · August 2005

Do you think it was a blurb in the news just 4 weeks ago? Get real! It will be some time before they come to a conclusion as to the cause. I recall reading about the Audi incident from the 80's. The concluded it was NOT the fault of Audi but driver error. That will not be the case here. There is a software update that people need to get in order for the problem to be rectified. I have been following the Prius forums and no one who has a late model 05 has ever experienced the problem. Time will tell.

blane · August 2005

tomzpri,

You wrote "Looks like the government investigation of the stalling problem is continuing". Perhaps you didn't read the rubber-stamped June 8, 2005 date at the top of linked document. It is two-month-old news.

gagrice · August 2005

The letter is two months old. At that time they had 67 complaints of stalling with the Prius. If you go to their site you will see many more since June 8th. In spite of some posters being in denial it is not just the software that is flawed with the Prius. There is also an issue with the fuel bladder causing shut down on the highway. I imagine the complaints are way over 100 by now.

falconone · August 2005

I think Toyota should send out letters to all people who purchased the Prius to get their software updates. Problems will continue if people don't update the ECU. As to the bladder issue, I have not read anything about that. Can someone post information on that?
I am also curious as to why there have not been any reports of European Prius having stalling issues.

molokai · August 2005

There are NO issues with the fuel bladder. I checked various sources. As usual, you are spreading incorrect information. The only bladder problems are with the owners that refuse
to pull over and ...well you guess the rest.

stevedebi · August 2005

"There are NO issues with the fuel bladder. I checked various sources. As usual, you are spreading incorrect information. The only bladder problems are with the owners that refuse
to pull over and ...well you guess the rest."

It might be wise to check the facts before you make a statement like that. By "facts" I mean the NHTSB website, where the complaints are filed. A single report doesn't make a trend, but still, it is there.

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/complain/complaintsearch.cfm

I found the following for 2005 Prius. There were a few complaints under "fuel systems" for the 2004 model, but they didn't really appear to be bladder related.

I especially like the second problem; it could explain why there have been reports of Prius running out of gas on the freeway unexpectedly.

" Make: TOYOTA
Model: PRIUS
Type: PASSENGER CAR
Year: 2005
Complaint Number: 10109731
Summary:
THE VEHICLE'S GAS NEEDLE INDICATED THAT THE TANK WAS HALF FULL. WHEN THE CONSUMER ATTEMPTED TO REFUEL THE VEHICLE, THE PUMP SHUT OFF AFTER ONLY DEPOSITING 1.1 GALLONS OF FUEL INTO THE TANK. *NM THE CONSUMER STOPPED A SECOND TIME TO TRY TO FILL THE FUEL TANK AND INSERTED THE PUMP INTO THE TANK. AFTER THE ATTEMPT TO FILL THE TANK, THE CONSUMER REMOVED THE PUMP FROM THE TANK AND FUEL SHOT OUT OF THE TANK ALL OVER THE CONSUMER. THE FUEL GAUGE STILL SHOWED HALF OF A TANK. THE CONSUMER WAS TOLD THAT THE PART NEEDED WOULD BE A COUPLE WEEKS AND WAS FORCED TO DRIVE THE VEHICLE. AFTER DRIVING THE VEHICLE THE CONSUMER NOTICED THAT FUEL GAUGE STILL IN THE SAME PLACE. THE DEALER FIXED THE PROBLEM STATING THAT WATER SOMEHOW GOT INTO THE FUEL CUT OFF VALVE AND CAUSED THE VEHICLE NOT TO ACCEPT FUEL. IN DRIVING HOME THE CONSUMER STOPPED AGAIN TO GET FUEL AND THE SAME PROBLEM OCCURRED. *TC *JB"

Make: TOYOTA
Model: PRIUS
Type: PASSENGER CAR
Year: 2005
Complaint Number: 10127609
Summary:
THE PRIUS SHUT DOWN, STOPPED USING GASOLINE POWER, WHILE I WAS IN THE PASSING LANE AND TRAVELING 70 MILES PER HOUR IN MODERATE TRAFFIC ON INTERSTATE 40 IN NASHVILLE, TN. THE RED TRIANGLE, CHECK ENGINE, VSC AND A FEW OTHER WARNING SIGNALS ILLUMINATED. I MANAGED TO AVOID BEING REAR-ENDED , PULLED TO THE SIDE OF THE ROAD USING BATTERY POWER, SHUT THE BATTERY POWER OFF, AND CONSULTED THE OWNER'S MANUAL. APPROXIMATELY 10-15 MINUTES PRIOR, THE ADD FUEL LIGHT ILLUMINATED AND THE FUEL INDICATOR DISPLAYED A SINGLE BAR. HAVING DRIVEN THE VEHICLE FOR THE PAST 8300 MILES, MY WIFE INFORMED ME THAT WE HAD ABOUT 2 GALLONS OF GAS, AND COULD EASILY TRAVEL ANOTHER FIFTY MILES. THE TEMPERATURE WAS NEAR 90 DEGREES. I STARTED THE VEHICLE AND CHOSE TO DRIVE IT OFF THE INTERSTATE. WE TRAVELED 2.5 MILES AND COASTED TO THE SIDE OF THE ROAD AS THE BATTERY DEPLETED. I MANAGED TO SLOWLY DRIVE THE VEHICLE TO A GAS STATION AND REFUELED. THE FUEL TANK COULD ONLY ACCOMMODATE 8.1 GALLONS OF FUEL; IT HOLDS 11.7. ONCE REFUELED, THE WARNING SIGNALS DISAPPEARED AFTER 30 SECONDS, AND WE DROVE HOME. MY WIFE TOOK THE CAR TO THE DEALER, JOE HEITZ TOYOTA IN CLARKSVILLE, TN, THE NEXT DAY FOR AN EVALUATION. THE MECHANIC SAID THAT THE COMPUTER INDICATED THAT THE VEHICLE RAN OUT OF FUEL. SINCE THERE OBVIOUSLY WAS FUEL IN THE TANK, I PRESSED THE SERVICE MANAGER FOR ANSWERS. BY THE END OF THE DAY AND AFTER CONSULTING WITH PRIUS TECHNICAL FOLKS IN CALIFORNIA, THE SERVICE MANAGER SAID THAT THE FUEL BLADDER MAY HAVE COLLAPSED OVER THE SENDING MODULE THEREBY SIGNALING THE CAR'S COMPUTER THAT IT WAS OUT OF GAS, WHICH CAUSED IT TO SHUT DOWN. HE SAID TOYOTA IS LOOKING INTO THE PROBLEM AND PROVIDED A LAME SOLUTION; REFUEL THE VEHICLE BEFORE IT GETS TOO LOW. THIS IS AN UNACCEPTABLE ANSWER AND I IMPLORE THE NHTSA TO INVESTIGATE THIS POTENTIALLY DEADLY ANOMALY. IT IS ONLY A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE SOMEONE IS IN A FATAL ACCIDENT BECAUSE THE VEHICLE SHUTS DOWN WHILE TRAVELING AT INTERSTATE SPEEDS.

falconone · August 2005

I suppose one statement which is not corroborated on a public web site means that the information is substantiated. I too was curious about Gary's post and I went on some Prius boards to check the information. Did you notice some of those posts on that government website? Someone complained because their knee hit the joystick shifter. I think half the people that buy these cars shouldn't even be on the road.

stevedebi · August 2005

"I suppose one statement which is not corroborated on a public web site means that the information is substantiated."

This is the site used to report potential problems to the federal government; it is not just a "public web site". The statement had been made that there was no truth to the reports of problems with the fuel bladder.

The incident reports indicate that the Toyota representative was theorizing about the fuel bladder causing the problem. I consider that corporate acknowledgement.

However, as I said, one incident doesn't make a trend, unless those reports of "out of gas" were actually incidents of something else. But that is certainly unproven at this stage.

falconone · August 2005

What I found interesting were the multiple posts on the site with the same VIN#. Anyone can post to that site which leads me to believe some of the information may be incorrect. One thing is certain and that there is definitely an issue with the ECU. Interesting is that there have been no incidents with the Lexus or Highlander, YET.

stevedebi · August 2005

"What I found interesting were the multiple posts on the site with the same VIN#. Anyone can post to that site which leads me to believe some of the information may be incorrect. One thing is certain and that there is definitely an issue with the ECU. Interesting is that there have been no incidents with the Lexus or Highlander, YET."

Yes, I don't know if it is people just hitting the SUBMIT button too many times, or thinking they can get more attention if they post multiple times, but it is annoying to see.

I don't think it is the ECU (hardware), it is the software code that goes into the ECU and the various other computers scattered around the hybrids.

RE: Lexus and HH. Those two models use V6 engines and would have different software controlling them. I would think that it has a lot of common code with the Prius, but I don't know that for a fact. But the use of HSD with a relatively powerful V6 on the otto cycle is quite different from the use of HSD with a small I4 on an atkinson cycle. Of course, Toyota has lots of experience with otto cycle V6 engine control software, so maybe they based their code on the Highlander and RX rather than the Prius, and went from there.

falconone · August 2005

I still haven't heard of any problems with the European Prius either. I wonder if it really is the gas tank like you said. If the computer thinks it is out of fuel, the engine would shut down. Doesn't that make more sense?

tomzpri · August 2005

If Toyota did a better job of fixing these problems, we wouldn't be forced to speculate as to their cause.

tomzpri · August 2005

I'm not sure your point, are you saying the investigation is not continuing? Did you previously post this letter on this web site or something? if you did I apologize for being redundant.

tomzpri · August 2005

According to this letter from Toyota to the Office of Defects Investigation office, the Prius problem seems to be more widespread than I thought.

If I read this right, Toyota has tabulated 416 complaints of consumers who experienced the 'alleged defect' and 66 field reports that may relate to the 'alleged defect'. That's a whole lot more than what was reported in the news.

It looks there are legal related claims too. It says Toyota was still collecting that data when this letter was written.

Office Of Defects Investigation Letter Jul 22, 2005

The worse news its it seems they still don't know what the problem is.

Sylvia · August 2005

A few reminders:

1. This discussion is about the Software Problems only - not fuel bladder. If you wish to discuss that, please go to the Toyota Prius Owners: Problems & Solutions discussion.

2. Personal attacks aren't needed.

Thanks

stevedebi · August 2005

"1. This discussion is about the Software Problems only - not fuel bladder. If you wish to discuss that, please go to the Toyota Prius Owners: Problems & Solutions discussion."

The fuel bladder came up because it was listed in the one incident on the NHTSB as the possible cause of a Prius highway shutdown, which is the prime symptom of our "software problems" discussion. So I really do think it is warranted here, at least for a short while. It could be masking software problems.

railroadjames · August 2005

I don't know about you guys but my bladder has been giving me some problems too but thats another story.
I would ask that some deliverers of info be a little more accurate in statements referring to the number of Prius's that have mysteriously shut down. When you consider the number of these cars out there it's a very low percentage as I see it. Yes there are some problems but by no means are they damning of the overall quality of these hybrid cars. TOO many satisfied hybrid owners to disregard. So be a bit fair and try not to be so obviously a "NAY SAYER" of sorts. Thanks!
Railroadjames(Hybrids Here To Stay)
Want World Peace....Use Your Turn-Signal!

stevedebi · August 2005

" I would ask that some deliverers of info be a little more accurate in statements referring to the number of Prius's that have mysteriously shut down."

It is a question of what triggers the shutdown. If it is a software error, the same error (until fixed) lurks in all Prius, waiting for an exceptional set of circumstances to appear. The fact that only a few Prius have exhibited what may be a software error doesn't mean they don't all have it; it also doesn't mean that it isn't some obscure hardware problem. But we are fairly certain that the 2004 had a software error. We have been hearing of 2005 models with what appear to be software errors as well, but it is difficult to tell.

I have consistently suggested to people that this potential problem not be a "deal breaker" on the Prius. It is too small for my needs, but seems to be otherwise a good vehicle. I'm sure Toyota will eventually get all the software bugs out (if any are there) . Here's hoping they don't introduce more while getting out any old ones...

slickwill · August 2005

Just don't run out of gas.

railroadjames · August 2005

Actually there's more to that statement than meets the eye. I recently was told by several service people that one of the most common problems with any of the newer cars is ....fuel pump failure due to people running out of gas and then a prevalent failure occures. The fuel pumps manages to become clogged by dirt and/or sediment in the fuel tank. As everyone should be aware...the fuel pump is located in the fuel tank in today's cars. This seems to be hard to accept....pump in the tank ...by us 'ol timers but thats today's technology. So be it. Just remember not to let your tank ever get extreemly low. I fill up at a quarter tank level to avoid this quirk. Its expensive to replace the pump..usually costing in access of $300.00 many times because of the procedure requiring the gas tank to be dropped in order to replace the pump.
Railroadjames( Hybrids "R" Smart)

dmathews3 · August 2005

also a lot of those pumps depend the the fuel in the tank to keep them cool, preventing overheating and failure.

railroadjames · August 2005

GOOD POINT! Alot of people are very surprised by the high cost for this repair.

stevedebi · August 2005

"Just don't run out of gas."

Did you read the write-up from the NHTSB. The Toyota service rep thought that the fuel bladder had collapsed, causing fuel starvation. There was still gas in the car. How would you manage to "just not run out of gas" in that case?

molokai · August 2005

I wonder if you overfill the tank after the pump clicks it can compromise the bladder?

Toyota Prius Software Problems

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