The Future Of The Manual Transmission

xwesx · October 2011

In a manual? Possibly not, as the poor manual tends to be relegated to the lower ranks, but then Mazda is one to buck the trends, so perhaps they'll offer it more universally?

But generally, yes, that's what I'm suggesting. If they don't do something like that, the massive fuel economy gains alone will relegate the previous-engined vehicles to instant obsolescence, and they'll have to literally give them away. To many people, creature comforts are a major purchasing factor.

ateixeira · October 2011

Kia does the same thing with the Rio5 - manuals only on the base models. Oddly, you can get an Accent 5 door in all the trim levels with a manual. Go figure.

shipo · October 2011

The thing is, the Mazda3 s GT is available with a manual transmission and "fully loaded"; I just want the exact same car but with the SkyActiv engine and the manual transmission.

ateixeira · October 2011

They removed the Navi option from the Mazda5 completely, so they've made some odd choices lately with packaging.

I think the MZR 2.0l should simply be dropped. To be honest, the SkyActive and Speed3's engines alone could do the trick.

xwesx · October 2011

I agree with both of you. I think it will take some transition time to make that happen, though.

For my part, if the car doesn't come the way I want it, I'll look elsewhere. Thankfully, I'm still looking at a timeline of approximately two years (Sept '13, ideally) before I really plan to get a new car, so I have some time yet to see where things go from here.

ateixeira · October 2011

So realistically you could probably wait for the 2014 models.

I looked and Edmunds configurator still says "coming soon".

benjaminh · October 2011

It comes standard with cruise as well as bluetooth. Considering the all new engine and transmission it's a pretty good pkg deal. A fun and sporty and safe car to drive for less than 20k.

Wish all options were available, but considering that Mazda is a small company I think they're putting out an impressive product.

I'd buy one in sky blue if I was in the market. Like the liquid silver too.

shipo · October 2011

"So realistically you could probably wait for the 2014 models."

I'll have given up long before then and will have bought a new F30 320d BMW.

ateixeira · October 2011

Glad I was wrong!

benjaminh · October 2011

At least Mazda offers a manual. You can't even get a manual on a Civic EX anymore!!? Yikes.

The Mazda3 Skyactiv is a good value. List price of $19245 isn't cheap, but this possibly is the most performance oriented new sedan you can get for that price. It's comparable to a Civic EX in equipment, but costs about $2000 less than a Civic. And of course it's a lot more fun to drive since the Civic would be an auto and would have the squishy standard suspension.

Here's some of the standard stuff on the skyactiv model:

"The 3i Touring adds to the Sport equipment the Skyactiv-G engine, 16-inch alloy wheels, cruise control, a leather-wrapped steering wheel and shifter, a rear-seat center armrest, a trip computer, Bluetooth (phone and audio streaming) and a six-speaker sound system. "

The standard suspension on the Mazda3 is probably as sporty as you would find on the Civic Si--which is another great car that's a great value (convinced my brother in law to get an Si, and he loves it), but the Si goes for c. $4000 more than the Mazda3 skyactiv.

The Si is a lot faster, but it's rated 22/31 mpg.

A Mazda3 Skyactiv, rated 27/39 is a pretty amazing blend of performance and economy.

And it got a 5 star rating by the insurance test, which is the top rating.

If I were in the market, I'd be test driving a Mazda3. I really like my Mazda5. And I really like the direction Mazda is going, esp. as Honda seems to slide into mediocrity for some models....

ateixeira · October 2011

And as a bonus they really toned down the smiley face up front. Looks better, too.

cdnpinhead · October 2011

. . .and will have bought a new F30 320d BMW.

Will such a thing be available, here in the land of EPA & CARB?

xwesx · October 2011

I suspect they will be the first out of the manual game in North America, save for perhaps a relic model here and there. On the 2012 Yaris, of all cars, they have even managed to relegate the manual option to only the lowest trim level, 3-door version only.

So, putting aside the fact that even with the redesign the Yaris remains a homely looking car, I won't bother taking another look at it as a possible candidate.

mcdawgg · October 2011

Sad, but every maker is either doing the same or will be following soon.

Take a look at the number of new Hondas with manuals on the lot right now vs. new Toyotas on the lot with manuals - just about the same % wise. You can do this by looking at Edmunds' new car section, selecting the model, and selecting manual transmission. Look at the number of manuals within 500 miles of your region, and then look at other parts of the country - very interesting.

No more manual Camrys now that the new generation is out - want to bet that the Accord will do the same when Honda releases the next generation Accord?

So you can't do the test that I have described above on the Accord vs. Camry. But back 3 months ago, Accord manuals and Camry manuals on the lots were just about the same (approx. 2% in mid-Atlantic region).

shipo · October 2011

Per the noise coming out of BMW-USA these days, yes. Apparently there will be two versions of the 320d, an ECO version and a performance version; the latter of which is pretty much a lock for the U.S. market. Both versions already meet the strictest of the current and known future world-wide standards; the performance version returns something like 47 to 50 mpg highway, and does zero to sixty in about 7.5 seconds.

I find myself already pining for one.

ateixeira · October 2011

Even on the Yaris? Sheesh.

Their only manual may soon be the Scion FR-S, and only because it's a Subaru underneath.

And Subaru may be the best place to shop overall, for manuals, too.

cdnpinhead · October 2011

Apparently there will be two versions of the 320d, an ECO version and a performance version. . .

Well, that's excellent, and I know you wouldn't be considering one unless it came with a real manual.

shipo · October 2011

Bingo! I'm thinking the higher performance diesel with three pedals under the dash.

Mrs. Shipo and I are already thinking European Road-Trip; I'll have a new set of GFTs waiting for the car when it gets off the boat. :shades:

bpizzuti · October 2011

Dunno, Subaru's giving in to CVTs, so they're already stepping into the "dark side." Not that there's anything wrong with a CVT per-se, they're very direct and efficient, just somewhat dull and boring.

There's a lot more variety out there now, with DSGs going mainstream with Ford and VW, CVTs with Nissan and Subaru...even true hybrid manumatics with Mazda's SkyActivDrive (operates like a slushbox at low speeds, but pretty much a DSG at higher speed). Not to mention the traditional slushbox automatics and high-tech manuals. Guess they're not going away after all, but the competition is a LOT tougher now.

Funny how Toyota is still relying on 4-speed automatics when even GM has moved on from them.

xwesx · October 2011

The Subaru CVT is a fantastic device. I don't think it is dull or boring (when compared to a traditional automatic); it certainly is smooth, though.

There really are many options available in the market, but at the end of the day, it still comes down to this: manual or automatic. You can't have both even if some automatics give the driver more discretion to intervene than others. The first manufacturer to come up with a true manual/auto hybrid transmission might just rule the world. :P

Actually, they'd probably charge extra for it, then nobody would buy it and they would scrap the concept. Never mind.

elias · October 2011

both eco & performance models bmw 320 stickshift for USA!? !!!!!!!!!!!!
VERY exciting news. got URL? Cool colors?
Can i get one with no NAV, no twitter, no leather, no hole in the roof?

so, which model year are we talking about, 2027?

shipo · October 2011

Nope, no links yet, just the benefit of having lived about five-hundred yards down the road from BMW-NA, and still having lots of friends (former neighbors and such) in the area.

As I understand it, you'll probably be able to buy the car with no NAV and no Leather, but the hole in the roof is probably going to be in all cars arriving on our side of the pond.

As for model year, what I've been told is that the Turbocharged I4 328i and I6 335i will hit our streets sometime next spring as 2013 models (some folks say 2012 so that's still a possibility), and the diesels will follow within the year.

cdnpinhead · October 2011

I'm thinking the higher performance diesel with three pedals under the dash.

Sounds like an excellent plan, including the ED part. I was near Munich on business exactly a year ago & would really enjoy being there again for the beginning of an all-pleasure trip.

I read Roundel pretty carefully and haven't seen this publicized; what's the timing, and are there any more details available on the two different versions?

shipo · October 2011

The only "published" details I've seen regarding the two 320d models is out of England; I have the BMW press release, all 65 pages of it, which I'd gladly send to you. Check the link for my ID and send me an E-Mail; I'll send you the PDF.

bpizzuti · October 2011

Oh please, here comes the orthodoxy: "If it doesn't have three pedals its an automatic!"

It it doesn't have three pedals its not a full manual but they aren't all "automatics" anymore: there's varying degrees of automation and various methods now. It's not simple anymore. :shades:

morin2 · October 2011

Considering that Toyota was still using an ancient 3 speed automatic for the US market as late as 2002, the 4 speed must be considered new technology to them.

I have one of the 2002 Toyota 3-speeds. On the highway it reminds be of a chainsaw revving. Only good thing about is that with so much engine braking, the brakes last forever...

ateixeira · October 2011

Dunno, Subaru's giving in to CVTs, so they're already stepping into the "dark side."

Even models with the CVT are also available with a manual - Impreza's a 5 speed, Outback + Legacy get 6.

Top-end Limited models are CVT-only with the Impreza, though. Hope that's not the start of a trend.

shipo · October 2011

"Oh please, here comes the orthodoxy: "If it doesn't have three pedals its an automatic!" It it doesn't have three pedals its not a full manual but they aren't all "automatics" anymore: there's varying degrees of automation and various methods now. It's not simple anymore."

I disagree and the English Language supports my belief. The thing is, unless it has three pedals and a shifter which moves the cogs inside of a transmission, it isn't a "Manual Transmission".

Said another way, if a transmission can shift for itself, then by definition it is an "Automatic Transmission". If a transmission relies on input from the driver for when and which gear to select, but the transmission does all of the physical declutching, gear changing and clutching work for the driver, then by definition it is a "Semi-Automatic Transmission". In the case of DSG style transmissions, they are "Automatic Transmissions" with a "Semi-Automatic mode".

This isn't to say that some Automatic Transmissions (such as the DSG) aren't built up from a mechanical gearbox patterned after true Manual Transmissions; it's just to say that a mechanical gearbox does not a Manual Transmission make.

bpizzuti · October 2011

Definition of "manual:" done, operated, worked, etc., by the hand or hands rather than by an electrical or electronic device.

Technically, since every transmission has to be shifted into "Drive" by hand, they're all manual.

If a transmission can shift for itself is IS "automatic" but it is not necessarily AN automatic.

BTW you just tried to define every tranny without a clutch pedal as an "automatic" proving my point.

mcdawgg · October 2011

Camry (6 auto) and other Toyotas use more than 4 speed autos. But yes, the current Corolla still has a 4 speed auto. What is interesting is that the Corolla still turns lower RPMs on the highway, is quieter, and gets better MPG, and smoother shifting than many of the 5 speed autos in the same class. So it is not that bad, and it is proven bullet-proof.

Now, could it be better with a 5 speed auto - YES.

I agree the 3 speed auto was noisy on the highway - I drove one years ago (Geo Prizm) and it was okay, but not for long distance highway trips!

xwesx · October 2011

If a transmission can shift for itself, it is an automatic. There's no grey area there. Having the third pedal isn't a requirement for a manual, but strictly requiring the driver to choose the gear (manually) is absolutely a requirement. That said, I think most of us who prefer manuals would lament the loss of control afforded by the clutch pedal. From what I hear, that is the biggest complaint about the dual-clutch automatics - they are jerky at slow speeds, which makes sense since there are many times that your car is not at a speed where the clutch is fully engaged or disengaged.

I personally wouldn't be interested in a manual transmission that didn't have a clutch pedal, but that's not to say it can't be done. Are those high end paddle-shifted cars (like Ferrari's) manuals, or just automatics with paddle shifters?

xwesx · October 2011

Often I think people simply suffer from gear envy. As with anything else, the numbers game wins in people's minds. Subaru used their 4EAT for well over a decade, and it is an excellent transmission. Yet, in later years, it apparently wasn't good enough because other makes with competing models had five or more gears. :sick:

shipo · October 2011

"BTW you just tried to define every tranny without a clutch pedal as an "automatic" proving my point."

No, not exactly. There are three types of transmissions, Automatic, Semi-Automatic, and Manual. If it doesn't have a clutch pedal, then it is either the first or the second of the above list.

shipo · October 2011

"Having the third pedal isn't a requirement for a manual, but strictly requiring the driver to choose the gear (manually) is absolutely a requirement."

I would have to disagree; if the driver is required to select which gear and approximately when said gear is to be engaged, but the transmission "Automatically" declutches, shifts the gear with servos, and then reclutches, then it is a "Semi-Automatic" transmission.

The above said, there are some true Manual gearboxes out there (thinking sequential manuals here) which only require you to use the clutch for starting off from a standing stop, but I don't believe any such a beast is currently on the market.

bpizzuti · October 2011

"Are those high end paddle-shifted cars (like Ferrari's) manuals, or just automatics with paddle shifters?"

According to most of the purists, they come under automatics as a semi-automatic transmission because the clutch action is automated.

shipo · October 2011

Per Ferrari's own web site, the transmissions are classified as "Semi-Automatic".

ateixeira · October 2011

Yeah, a lot of people are surprised when I say this but the 4 speed auto in our Forester is better overall vs. the 5 speed in our Sienna.

The Sienna does have a taller overdrive, but...the Subaru shifts smoother, has less hesitation, and completes shifts quicker as well.

stickguy · October 2011

I am with Wes. If it can shift by itself, it is an automatic. If the driver is required to changes gears, it is a manual. Clutch pedal is not required.

semi or full automatic, semantics. Just an AT with a manual selection option. Still an automatic.

something like the old VW clutchless was still a manual, just with an automatic clutch (if you want to look at it that way). A DSG is just a different style AT.

Mr_Shiftright · October 2011

This distinction is probably another case of precise definition vs. the public's conventional understanding.

When you say "manual transmission" or "stickshift" to 99% of the population, and show them a graphic with three options, one of which shows three pedals on the floor, that's what they're going to pick, whether they are scientifically correct or not.

In another 20 years or so, when there are no longer 3 pedals on any car or truck anywhere, then younger people won't remember the 3-pedal world.

Here's another "sort of" example of this:

Older people STILL pump the gas pedal to start a car, because they remember the carburetor. You can explain to them all day long that no gas is being pumped into the engine by simply stomping on the pedal, but they'll do it anyway.

So for them "pump the gas" means squirt gas into the engine, even though it's now a computer, and not a foot, that does all that.

bpizzuti · October 2011

In another 20 years or so, when there are no longer 3 pedals on any car or truck anywhere, then younger people won't remember the 3-pedal world.

Careful, you're going to antagonize the purists. :shades:

Mr_Shiftright · October 2011

Ah purists schmurists---I always tell 'em "fine, go play your 8-track tapes".

Hey, nobody loves 3 pedals like I do but I can see the handwriting on the firewall.

benjaminh · October 2011

So what does the handwriting on the firewall say about the approximate date for the death of the manual?.....I'm guessing by c. 2022 they'll be pretty much all gone. Maybe even before that.

So, probably less than 10 years to buy manuals. I'm 47, and so if in 5-8 years I buy another car, if I'm really, really, lucky and take real good care of it, that might do me for the rest of my driving career...

kyfdx · October 2011

I just bought a 24-yr-old car, so there is always that option...

So... if manuals are around until 2020, then I can find an old one until 2045.... when, I'll be 87 years old...

I think I'm set....

shipo · October 2011

What about the kids learning now? I taught my son (and will start teaching my daughter next year) how to drive a stick, and now he won't even consider driving a car with an automatic. Don't know if it has anything to do with the fact that my son is a bit of a trend setter at school, but now an easy dozen of his friends have been converted and drive sticks, and many-many more are bugging their parents to teach them how.

stever · October 2011

Not to worry, someone will create an app for that and it'll interface with the AT, giving the illusion of control for the driver. For extra realism, the kids can hook a joystick up to their smartphone.

andys120 · October 2011

Let's face it kids now care more about the Dbs going thru their speakers than the HP going out the tailpipes and by the time they reach middle age cars will be all electrical and have no transmissions at all. ICEs might not even be legal.

kyfdx · October 2011

What about the kids learning now?

Who do you think is driving the 24-yr-old car?

He had a perfectly good 19-yr-old car, but begged me for a stick-shift..

He might only get to drive a stick until he is 60...

stickguy · October 2011

my daughter can get her permit at the end of November. So after she finishes with the madatory 6 hours with a driving school, she can start driving with us. So, I get to brush off the stick teaching skills.

really curious to see how she does with it, and if she will want to continue. If not, it is going to cut way down on her practice opportunities (since she is in my car more than the wifes van).

Of course, until my wife trades out of the minivan, she doesn't want to be caught dead driving that!

shipo · October 2011

"Let's face it kids now care more about the Dbs going thru their speakers than the HP going out the tailpipes..."

Not in my neck of the woods; kids around here really do seem to enjoy the act of driving. Why? Maybe the fact that we're semi-rural and have roads which wind around over hill and dale.

My son's 12th grade class has just shy of 200 students, and at last count, in excess of 40 of them either drive cars with manual transmissions on a daily basis or drive them frequently enough to be declared "proficient". I suppose it doesn't hurt that the Captains of the Soccer team, Football team, and Cheerleading squat all drive manual transmission equipped cars to school every day.

hpmctorque · October 2011

"STICKING AROUND
Manual trannies are alive and -- well, not dead yet

Cadillac offers the 556-hp CTS-V luxury car with a manual transmission, a commercial says, 'because there are those who still believe in the power of a firm handshake.'
Lindsay Chappell
Automotive News -- October 31, 2011 - 12:01 am ET

Speaking statistically, manual transmissions are disappearing from the American auto market.

But disappearing from the hearts and minds of drivers? Hardly.

In fact, there is new life in the old technology -- at least as a symbol of sportiness for certain models.

Cadillac has just begun advertising its racy $63,215 CTS-V on national TV, specifically touting its manual transmission. 'Why did we build a 556-horsepower luxury car with a manual transmission?' the spot asks. 'Because there are those who still believe in the power of a firm handshake.'

Cadillac's Molly Peck: A manual 'adds to the thrill of the model.'

'We recognize in talking to our consumers that they really appreciate a manual,' says Molly Peck, Cadillac advertising director. 'It's not about a cost-saving technology. It's about that engagement with the vehicle that some drivers want. It adds to the thrill of the model.'

Mini is also launching a campaign to sing the praises of manual shifting, using the tag line, 'Get your shift together.' And Mazda North American Operations just introduced a redesigned Mazda3 with a new six-speed manual transmission as part of its Skyactiv fuel-economy package. The model also comes with an older five-speed manual option that Mazda just isn't ready to drop.

In a world of sophisticated new automatics, investing in manuals is not easy. Mazda engineers completely redesigned their shifting system to make the new manual more smooth. The project meant shortening the 'travel distance' from gear to gear by a mere 5 millimeters. But it's worth it because the automaker predicts that nearly one of five Mazda3 buyers will choose one of the manual transmissions.

Next month in Los Angeles, Mazda will introduce a redesign-ed CX-5 crossover that also has the six-speed manual. Manual-transmission customers for the current CX-5 have been running at just under 6 percent.

'It's not big volume, but that's not the point,' says Jeremy Barnes, Mazda's British-accented U.S. product spokesman. 'It's not a demographic, it's a psychographic. Manual transmissions appeal to the sporty end of the spectrum, and that's who we are. It's what differentiates us from Toyota and Honda.'

Mini's spin on it? 'Manual transmissions are important to our customers,' says Tom Salkowsky, Mini USA brand marketing manager. 'There is a community of drivers out there who want the benefits of a manual. And our message is, for those of you looking for that driving experience of control, Mini is the brand for you.'

The brand sells a stick-shift model to more than one out of every three customers. In its New England market, for reasons the company doesn't fully understand, almost half of Mini sales are sticks. This fall, the company began stepping up the drumbeat for manuals, opening up a comical toll-free phone line - 1-855-MANUAL-UP- where callers can hear witty recordings about buying manual-equipped cars. Salkowsky has also unleashed a manual-promoting print ad campaign that reads: 'Buy two pedals, get one free.'

Are these automakers simply bucking the tide of automotive history?

At a casual glance, stick shift transmissions seem to be headed for the dust heap, alongside other perfectly nice tools of the past like typewriters and rooftop TV antennas.

Cadillac's Molly Peck: A manual 'adds to the thrill of the model.'

In the vast population of all light vehicles on U.S. roads -- some 240 million in rough numbers -- stick shifts account for just 12 percent today, according to Polk, the industry data-gathering firm. Automakers estimate that most are older vehicles, slowly aging out of commission, and that manuals represent a measly 5 to 7 percent of vehicle sales today.

Japanese automakers have been investing in additional transmission manufacturing capacity in North America over the past year for future products, including a $50 million Ohio factory expansion project announced last month by Honda of America Manufacturing Inc. But it is all for new-generation automatic transmissions. Toyota, Nissan and Honda do not produce a single manual transmission in the United States.

To prepare for future demand, German transmission supplier ZF Group has stepped up plans for a new factory in Laurens, S.C., that will produce eight-speed automatic transmissions for Chrysler. ZF said last month that it has increased the budget to $400 million, up from the scheduled $320 million, so it can add a new nine-speed automatic transmission to the mix.

'Demand for manual transmissions is shrinking for all manufacturers,' says Steve Yaeger, Nissan North America Inc.'s spokesman on technology. Nissan offers manual options on many models, including the high-revving 370Z roadster. But the technology is peripheral. Sales of the Z will be under 10,000 this year. Of greater significance is Nissan's strategic move of recent years to use more continuously variable transmissions, promoting their smoothness and fuel economy. The 2012 Nissan Versa sedan comes with either a CVT or a five-speed manual. The CVT Versa offers 3 miles per gallon better combined city and highway fuel economy than the more humble stick version.

'The momentum is definitely behind making the CVT even more efficient and enjoyable for the customers while returning fuel economy that rivals a manual shift,' Yaeger says.

That is a reversal from traditional thinking. In the past, consumers chose manual transmissions to gain better fuel economy than the automatic versions of a model. Advanced automatics can now outperform the old sticks in the mpg department.

Another factor behind the decline of stick shifts: Drivers don't have enough arms to shift gears anymore. Consumers today often hold the steering wheel with one hand while holding a cell phone or even attempting to text with the other. It is a common bad habit that makes manually shifting gears a nuisance requiring a third arm.

And stick-shifting no longer has a corner on driving performance. Jim Vurpillat, Cadillac's global marketing director, notes that Cadillac set an industry speed record for production sedans three years ago at Germany's Nurburgring racetrack using the CTS-V sedan automatic -- not the manual. And some high-performance brands, including Ferrari and Lamborghini, are moving away from stick shifts entirely in favor of more sophisticated transmissions.

All this has some consumers moaning the blues. The auto buff book Car and Driver runs a public opinion campaign called 'Save the manuals!' that decries what readers fear is the creeping end of manual transmissions.

'I can't tell you how much I love manual transmission,' one

The Future Of The Manual Transmission

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