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The Future Of The Manual Transmission

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Comments

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,490
    I just use the simple answer. A manual does not need a clutch, but if it can be set to shift on its own when it feels like it, it is an automatic.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    Is a door that opens on its own a "manual automatic" door, (after all you can pull it open), or is it an automatic door?

    Manual automatic is an oxymoron. It is one or the other.

    Now I have to go eat my "jumbo shrimp", or things will get "pretty ugly" around here.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited January 2013
    Or you could try this:

    HINT:

    K = Kupplung = Clutch. B = Bremsem = Brakes.

    3 PEDALS IN A DIFFERENT ORDER
  • mcdawggmcdawgg Member Posts: 1,722
    edited January 2013
    Car Jackers Can't Drive Stick

    There have been other stories like this in the past. This is a new one.

    Some good PR about the advantages of manuals.....
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    The disadvantage is that it needs PR in the first place because it doesn't have many other advantages anymore. :shades:
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    the new2013 VW Beetle cabriolet gets better hwy MPG as a manual than it does as a manu-matic.....neener...neener :P
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited January 2013
    At least the perps didn't get so frustrated that they shot the driver. :sick:

    Everything goes in cycles. A smart manual transmission company should start an ad campaign and tell the kids that they can be cooler than their parents by rowing their own gears.

    Kids got tired of seeing old guys like me on snowboards so they moved on to cooler twin tips. Shoot, go more retro and put in crank windows. I bet wing vent windows would be a big hit too. Just leave the mp3 stuff.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Yeah, I guess that completely makes up for the Impreza getting better MPG with the CVT than the manual...and the Mazda3...and the Legacy and Outback..and the Focus...and the BRZ...and a whole lot of other cars. ;)
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    CX-5 gets way better mpg with manual, VW diesels as well, Cruze eco way better with manual. That is not taking into account that it is much easier for manuals to beat epa numbers. EPA tests require holding gears much longer than necessary and that hurts manuals.

    I still have never seen real world evidence of any automatic beating a manual. Look at EPA website - manual wins every time for real world numbers (as long as there is a significant sample).
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Per the EPA, but they're almost always wrong.

    CR had a good article about it a little while ago, manuals showed a distinct advantage even when EPA numbers were lower.

    At best the auto tied the manual in the real world loop.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well sure, because with the CVT you're probably driving like grandpa. A fair test would be to drive both cars at the "sporting level" and see what happens.

    You know what? Pushing buttons is boring (to me).

    The traffic police are shooting me with radar; the parking police are holding their stopwatching, counting down to the second I'm overdue parked; the nanny gadgets need to be constantly turned off; the roads are getting more and more crowded......do automakers want to rip from my grasp that very last source of amusement I have, in enjoying my 6-speed, 3 pedal, rev where you want, shift when you want, transmission?

    Must shifts be faultless--am I no longer allowed to screw up, to learn the best and smoothest way to shift?

    Do I really have to pay for track time to enjoy myself anymore? :cry:

    OKAY -- compromise---in a Ferrari, I could stand paddle shifters.... :P
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    When the manual dies, will tell my grand kids about keepers of the flame, like us.

    We'll be like Jedis. :shades:

    Talk like this, we must.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    I chose a DSG transmission over the manual if for no other reason than taking .2 seconds off a run from 0-60 MPH.

    With 200 HP those .2 seconds matter. Now, with a 400+ HP Ferrari, that .2 seconds faster might not be so important.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    In a Ferrari or Porsche you might save .2 (maybe). In a more pedestrian dsg like a VW you will be faster with the manual.
  • scwmcanscwmcan Member Posts: 399
    I am sorry but those .2 seconds are rarely going to do anything for you, but if it makes you happy so be it. I think there is way too much emphasis on 0-60 nowadays. My one cars has around a 20 sec 0-60 and I can merge onto highways safely, as a matter of fact I am often upset at the people who are merging onto the highway slower than me! This is also true in city traffic, despite having probably the slowest accelerating car on the road, I am still faster than the majority of drivers, most people don't come close to using the full potential of their cars, if you do than good for you.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    My one cars has around a 20 sec 0-60 and I can merge onto highways safely...

    1960's air cooled VW Beetle perhaps?

    I had one of those and it wasn't very fast.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    We'll be like Jedis.

    Talk like this, we must.

    What strikes me as REALLY ironic about that remark is that you have to be old enough to understand that remark (having seen the movie in the theater! :-P) to know how to drive a stick! :-) :shades:

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • scwmcanscwmcan Member Posts: 399
    No a 2005 diesel smart, the big 40 hp do their best but dont make it a supercar in terms of acceleration ( makes up for it with fuel economy on my commute, and to me at least it is fun I it's own way).
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Learn to drive stick, you must. ;)
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    This is not the transmission (automatic) you are looking for.
  • eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    "use the torque, Luke."

    ps - the VW cabrio M6 TDI looks awesome, what a great value...
    (especially after years with a 2006 newbeetle TDI DSG... )

    pps - a shoutout to ateixyoda & obi-wan-andres3
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    " “The Dark Side of the Force (DSF---that's the one just before DSG :P ) is the pathway to many abilities some consider to be… Unnatural.”
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Manual transmissions are immune to those mind control games.

    Of course that means manuals = Jabba the Hut. :D
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    edited February 2013
    Use the power of the stick, Luke.

    I find your lack of shifting......disturbing.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    Nah, it's written even in VW the DSG will make you about .2 faster.

    With launch control it might be even more and for sure more consistent victories if your drag racing a lot.

    I Just extrapolate that if it's .2 faster 0-60, it probably is a little faster 20-80 , 40-60, 40-70, 0-100, and any other measurement of speed. It just shifts so fast there is no way to beat it.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    And on fast rewind, you can get through a movie in a matter of minutes! :P
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    I trust CR most and while they have not tested identical VW's with stick and auto. They tested a Stick Golf and a dsg Jetta (Jetta only weighed 60 lbs more - including the heavier transmission). both with diesel engines. Golf was Very good overall for acceleration and Jetta was only good. Numbers below. 45-65 isn't really close. The DSG may shift fast, but it also needs time to decide what to do - a manual acts when you want it to.

    Very Good Good
    0 to 30 mph, sec.
    3.2 3.6

    0 to 60 mph, sec.
    9.4 9.5

    45 to 65 mph, sec.
    5.2 6.0

    On top of being faster the stick got 27/49 city highway to the 25/ 45 for the automatic. This is with DSG - regular automatics are worse.

    They have done this comparison for many cars and the stick wins in acceleration and mpg every time. VW is the only DSG they tested with both.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    I wonder and would be suspicious that some of the recent Jetta decontenting has affected the performance of the DSG to the point it's not even a "real" DSG anymore.

    Afterall, when a car is "cheapened" out, it is rare that it is only visual things that are cheapened.

    Also, in DSG manual mode you can always immediately select the next lower gear without any delay, although a double down shift down would take .2 seconds longer. If you just floor it in auto mode I think it's capable of shifting down more than 1 gear all at once. I'll have to run more tests.

    A TDI is not meant to be performance oriented, so DSG may not pair well with it. DSG is for a performance motor, like the 2.0T.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    pathway to many abilities some consider to be… Unnatural.

    Unnatural maybe...but oh so pleasurable. :P
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    well perhaps to those who have swooned under the haze of gadgetry, yes, it is pleasurable, but who among the 3-pedal crowd would choose this path of perfumed indolence? Not us, we're rugged individualists! :P
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,490
    well, I certainly think you and I should be exalted leaders of this particular sect. Just based on our names.

    I would not even feel awkward about it now, since I have a stick in the driveway again!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    edited February 2013
    Oh great the old fogies are gonna create a cult around an antiquated piece of technology, heh. ;)

    Just be careful. Worshiping the Almighty Stick has an awful lot of interesting connotations, many of which are not family friendly, and some of which are just plain hilarious. :shades:
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    One could say the same of guns, cigars and golf for that matter---. Why not target-shoot with a gun that has radar-guided bullets?---you don't even have to aim, and you will enjoy the full illusion of competence as a marksman. ;)
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,490
    put that on a golf club and make it work, and you will be able to buy Bill Gates.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Yeah, it also might actually make golf popular. ;)
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited February 2013
    "...Just be careful. Worshiping the Almighty Stick has an awful lot of interesting connotations, many of which are not family friendly, and some of which are just plain hilarious. "...

    I really think it is the OTHER way around. Most of the worship, more importantly the monies have gone into "automatic"(transmissions) improvements, that so far have really not overcome the third pedals performance parameters, i.e. parasitic forces, mpg , range of mpg, durability, cost, to name a few, other than the automatics are ...automatic. At that, there has been, is and probably will remain a considerable premium, albeit for 47 years that I have been driving.

    I say this from the perspective of owning automatics; 3,4,6,7,8 speeds, (3- in a 1950's car) 4,5,6 speeds manuals and a six speed DSG.

    Further, I do really like the 8 speed A/T, 6 speed manual Tremec and 6 speed DSG. In the case of the 8 speed A/T, it is standard with no other transmission offering. In that sense, the extra cost (app 1,200) is built into the cost structure making it opaque. The 4,5,6, speed manuals almost all have had the A/T(@ extra cost option) The DSG was an 1,100 extra cost option over a 6 speed M/T standard.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,131
    gimmestdtranny - in response to your Ducati suggestion - I've looked at the small and medium (696, 796) Monster, and I like them a lot. They seem to be a perfect size and weight, and the ergonomics are fine for a rider who isn't 5'6" 130. The price kind of repels me - Monster 796 ABS shoots past 10K.. I was thinking/hoping now that I have a new car with a payment, I would be distracted from bikes. But, I still feel "want" when I see some. In my mind, I would be most likely to buy a Ninja 300/new Honda CB500 series (if they ever finally arrive) or a Monster. I am just being held back by unwillingness to spend, parking, and fear of local traffic. I don't want something too old, as I hate carbs and I want ABS. Heck, I have even thought about picking up a scooter just for fun, but those are mostly CVTs, so not appropriate here :shades:
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Not all scooters are CVT, but all of them are dangerous vis a vis a motorcycle.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,131
    The dangerous part makes me hesitant - not just my own lack of expertise, but the local "drivers", especially in this diverse area. I will say a bike would be the only manual vehicle I would consider - still don't really want it in a car.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well the wheels on a scooter are too small and couple that with a sharp steering rake to the front forks and you go right over the bars on an avoidance maneuver.

    The other drivers are a problem with ANY two wheeler.

    And if you're 60+ on a two wheeler, you can double the bad odds by a factor of 2.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,131
    edited March 2013
    There are larger wheel scooters out there. I am more afraid of sliding on wet ground than going over the bars, and am most afraid of being slammed into by one of our beloved ad necessary fresh off the boat types driving a Lexus LX, or a texting teen.

    Older bikers do seem to be claimed around here as much as the 19 year olds on literbikes.

    On the bike note, I got an email last night from a local dealer claiming the Honda 500s will be in next month.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited March 2013
    Older bikers do seem to be claimed around here as much as the 19 year olds on literbikes.

    Correct - half of motor cycle deaths are 1st year riders. Get past the first year and odds drop by half. ;)
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    ...now that I have a new car with a payment...

    Did I miss what you are driving? Anyway, congratulations on a new ride!
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,131
    A few weeks ago I picked up a new ride. See if you can tell it apart from the old timer :shades:

    image

    Just a lease though - the 13s are being given away in advance of the upcoming facelift model, and I got a heck of a deal. I'd never have financed something so pricey. Never had a new car before, so, like the kids say, you only live once.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Fin - congratulations! Which model is that - I'm not a MB expert - an E class?

    It really is nice to have a new car, although I've never leased before.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,131
    Yes, E350 Bluetec. So I can say it is a practical car - diesel with a vinyl (tex) interior :shades:

    Usually I have kind of sneered at new cars, but I have to say the technology is fun, and having something under warranty is a little peace of mind. I also got a fair price for the old car, and I sold it before I might have become too attached. As long as my income is stable, I might get into leasing if prices are subsidized like this (I am certain I am paying less than real world depreciation). It'll just eliminate any big vacation for a year or two :shades:
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    It'll just eliminate any big vacation for a year or two

    Road trip! :P
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,131
    For sure, once we get better weather. I look forward to approaching the 40mpg the car is capable of.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    For sure, once we get better weather. I look forward to approaching the 40mpg the car is capable of.

    Make sure not to accelerate to autobahn speeds, or your mileage will suffer. :shades:
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,131
    usually not a big concern in weatern WA ;)
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