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Ford F250 - 5.4,V10 or Diesel?
I am looking at buying a 99 F250/4WD/Ext or Crew
cab and can't decide which engine to get. I would
use it to commute (70mi.RT) to work 98% of the time
but pull a 5000 lb. camper 4-5 times per year and
want to have enough power to do the job. I am
currently pulling it with a 95 suburban with a
350/3:43 rear end and it seems to be in a strain
compared to my friends who pull same size campers
much easier with F150 with 5.4's. Is the 5.4 enough
in a 250? Love the diesel but struggling a bit
with the noise and justification of the cost
difference for no more weight I pull and the
frequency of use. Also hearing horror stories about
V10 gas mileage. I would greatly appreciate any
feedback from owners. Thanks for any advice.
cab and can't decide which engine to get. I would
use it to commute (70mi.RT) to work 98% of the time
but pull a 5000 lb. camper 4-5 times per year and
want to have enough power to do the job. I am
currently pulling it with a 95 suburban with a
350/3:43 rear end and it seems to be in a strain
compared to my friends who pull same size campers
much easier with F150 with 5.4's. Is the 5.4 enough
in a 250? Love the diesel but struggling a bit
with the noise and justification of the cost
difference for no more weight I pull and the
frequency of use. Also hearing horror stories about
V10 gas mileage. I would greatly appreciate any
feedback from owners. Thanks for any advice.
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Comments
You'll never justify the cost of the diesel pulling only 5 times a year. as a daily commuter, the 5.4 should get only 1 or 2 mpg worse than the diesel.
Don't waste the $$$$ for 98% commuting on a diesel...unless that 2% towing was a lot more than 5K.
The Ford V-10 ain't much to write home about. Chevy's V-8 6.0 just about does the same thing.
Get the 5.4...maybe even a 1/2 ton?....although 3/4's make better commuters as well....as I know first hand. Almost 20K on the 00 Silverado 2500 and it has rode farr better than any 1/2 ton I ever had....especially on the highway.
Good Luck
- Tim
5.4 with 3.73 or 4.10 if you can still get Ford to put it in is my best fit for under 3 tons. Over 3 tons the bigger motor will make you smile a little more when towing. Over 5 tons look at the V10 with 4.30 or the diesel with 4.10 or 3.73.
good luck
EEE
I have a '00 SD,F350,4X4,CC,LWB,Lariat,V10,Auto,4.30,ESOF and love it. I have just over 7,000 miles with no problems. I have a couple of friends with the V8 and they beat me on gas mileage by about 1, and that could be my driving habits. I get about 14 hwy and 11 to 12 mixed. If you are planning to pull anything the V10 sure makes it nice. It may use a little more gas pulling but that's only a few times a year and you'll be smiling all the way as you pass the other folks on the hills. The F350 has a little stiffer ride than the F250 but the Crew Cab helps out not to mention all the extra room inside.
I upgraded my truck with a 6" lift and 38" tires. The books say I should run 4.86 gears but the V10 does great as is.
www.picturetrail.com/psmith13
My opinion that's all
In my '99 F-250 Super Duty, Super Cab, Long Wheel base, auto trans, 3.73 LS and diesel the mileage is in the high 16's to low 17's in the Los Angeles freeway stop and stop traffic. I've got over 41K miles on it. I've taken the truck from Huntington Beach to Reno usually running 65 to 75 MPH on highway 395 and got 19 MPG. (Enough with the economy stuff.)
The diesel is easier to drive in traffic because it free wheels easier (less engine breaking) which makes the stop and stop more tollerable. The ride is better than my older '92 F-250 but it's not car like. I've added velvet shackles and edlebrock shocks and the ride is very good, for a truck. (But it's still a truck.)
I really don't notice the engine noise as I run the A/C almost all the time.
I am biased because I just like driving a diesel.
If you're spending an hour plus daily in your commute, get the thing that is going to give you the most comfort and convienence for that time. If you arrive home relaxed because you're not fighting the vehicle it really helps relationships.
Rich
I own 99,F250,sc,V10,4x4,3.73 gears.
My brother owns 99,Silverado,2500,4x4,6.0L.
We both pulled a tractor/truck pull. I finished 4th (behind 2 F350's and 1 supercharched Dodge).
I pulled about 230' and all 4 wheels were slinging dirt. My brother powered (whimpered) out at about 168'. By the way both trucks were stock.
About pulling 5000 lbs...
My previous truck (92,F150,4x4,5.8,200HP,
300lb ft,3.55 gears) had trouble pulling my 27', 7000lb camper. The new 5.4L has around 240 HP & more torque too. If you really only weigh in at 5000 lbs then you will be fine with F150.
If you think about getting anything above that I'd go with the F250,V10,3.73 gears. Compared to the F250,5.4L,4.10 gears the gas mileage will be not worth mentioning.
As for ride, no comparison!!!
The F150 has the twin arms.
The F250 has a solid axle.
My wife and two children wish I had a truck that rode as good as the last one. But I love it & it gets the job done...PERIOD.
My questions:
1. What could you expect to safely pull with the F150?
2. If a F250 is the best route, and I plan to keep it for as many years as it will hold up (with proper maintenance of course), would this justify buying a diesel (ford powerstroke) vs. a gas engine? Would this be cost effective, because I understand problems with injectors etc.in later years can be very expensive?
3. In general, what would justify buying a diesel over the gas engine?
Thanks very much for the input.
Jojo
unless you drive 50-60K miles per year, you will NEVER cost justify the diesel. But it pulls better and gets slightly better mileage. longevity with gas is about the same, in my experience. maintenance will be more expensive with the diesel, even if nothing ever goes wrong. Fords have never been good on glowplug and small electronics.
you can't justify it with just money.
But if you really love the way it drives and pulls, and the macho sound, then thats the justification you have right there.
I own a 97 Ford F150 Lariat 5.4 3.55 ext cab sb. 4x4 with 17" tires, extra are not much but help, k&n filter and flowmaster muffler. I pull a 27' Wildwood with no problem at all. My friend has 94 F150 5.0 and pulls a 22 ft sunline (light) and I pull away from him on hills with no problems. Hope it helps
Thanks very much for the responses. cdean, I was hoping to hear from you. You seem very knowledgeable in the area of trucks and what can be pulled with a particular truck. Lockshop, I also wanted to hear from someone who has the 5.4 engine.
Jojo
I have a 2001 manual 6.0L CC 4.10 on order.
We expect to see similiar performance and fuel economy.
I'd recommend either.
Drove a '89 diesel for 175k. No way would I buy another diesel as a short daily driver, particularly since I live at 7,000' elevation with cold winters.....
too Jackson, Tennessee. There is no other diesel
Chevy or Dodge that will out pull it. The guys
on this page that say Ford diesel's suck don't
know what they're talking about.
Same basic bottom end as a powerstroke. Engine was basically worn out after 175k miles, even with oil and filter changes every 2,500 miles.
As daily drivers, going short distances, I have my doubts that a diesel will go as far (and certainly not as cheaply) as a gas motor.
Went to test drive a new 2000 7.3 turbo. Was disappointed in the acceleration compared to my 6.9 4 speed. Got 20+ mpg new, now about 18mpg after all those miles. I'm wondering how many more miles I can get on this engine. Like the bunny it just keeps going. Oil changes every 5,000 miles; changed injectors at 210,000 for no particular reason. All highway miles. Was wondering if trading in is a step down. Also in the test drive I seemed to hear the high pitched
wine of the turbo on acceleration. Is that normal? Any thoughts?
Very surprised that your 6.9 will out run anything! much less a 2000 Powerstroke!
6.9 is a very durable engine. I know a fellow with well over 300K on his...his odometer quit working, but the engine and the truck keep on chugging along.
Hard to say how long it will last. You are at the point where you can pretty much expect something to give at anypoint. I have seen several diesels just poop out around 250K or sooner.
IMHO the super-dutys are the best trucks on the market. I own a bobcat service company, and have been looking for a truck that will pull my bobcat. (when loaded down with the bobcat and auger, the trailer tips the scales at just over 10000 pounds) I've tested a new Dodge 3500 V-10, a 3500 - Cummins, a Ford SD 350 V-10, and a Ford SD 350 with the stroker, all pulling my trailer.
As far as power goes, the SD with the Power stroke wins hands down. No other truck could match it hauling uphill, passing, etc. The cummins came pretty close, but always had to downshift one extra gear when hauling up a grade. The V-10s might have been a little quicker off the line, but I'd give that up for the torque that the diesels had. Not to mention the fuel economy.
I have ordered a Super Duty F-350 Lariat, Super cab, 4x4, LB, Power Stroke, and am expecting delivery any time.
-Ken
My question to you is for the average Joe who tows 7000+- pounds puts on maybe 10000 miles a year would you still justify the higher expense, less quickness, more maintenance, smellier, louder diesel?
There is one other justification. I like the diesel, I like the powerstroke, I like the Ford.
Until you use one as a daily driver, you probably just won't understand the nuts like me.
Rich
Just cuz you don't need a diesel, doesn't mean you can't buy one. Rich is a perfect example!
Everyone has their preferences, I like diesels. I bet that once you get behind the wheel of one, you probably won't want to switch back to gas.
I agree with rich - until you drive one on a daily basis, you'll never truly appreciate a diesel engine, or understand us diesel nuts.
-Ken
I guess i've seen so much diesels, i'm happy to be w/o one! But I do know all the reasons you guys love the diesels...I hang around w/ plenty diesel nuts!
Must be studying for that first Pre-Algebra test....Hmmmm
Engfarm, I can't debate personal preference but I will disagree on the maintenance. You've got double the oil capacity 2-3x's the expense for filters and the water separator PLUS changes more often.
Cdean, I agree, the larger gas motors just "feel" better to me.
As for Maintenance, it is true that each oil change is expensive, costing approx. 3 to 4 times what it costs for a gas engine. But of course that is halved by the fact that gas requires it more often... But I think that is much offset by the longevity of the engine and the fuel savings.
I have worked around diesel engines all my life, I am an owner operator of a large truck, a Kenworth. With the correct maintenance they can last for ever. One of the things I will point out that we large diesel owners do, that does not seem to be done on the smaller ones is, Change your coolant every two years or so. The coolant will gather acids and will break down the engine walls. You will suddenly discover soap suds in your coolant when trouble appears... This is evidence of oil beginning to show up in the coolant.
By the way, I hate the telescoping mirrors, they should be able to retract. I have replaced the left one twice now.... Can't replace just a small piece of them either it's all or nothing....
I do not profess to be a diesel expert and none of what is reported comes from first hand knowledge. In fact I'll be a diesel virgin...
I've recently ordered a '01 F350 CC 4wd SRW Lariat PS and trading in a '99 F250 SC 4wd Lariat V10. The reason for the trade is 2 fold: kids aren't comfortable in the rear of the SC (leg room), V10 MPG/range. The pulling power of the V10 was adequate (3.73) but even moderately steep hills caused pesky downshifts.
Prior to selecting the diesel I did considerable research (internet, acquaintances, contacting engine manufacturers) regarding durability. In addition to towing, I use my truck to travel to work (6 miles - 1 way) and for short trips and I was concerned regarding the reprted wear on the diesel caused by short trips and the corresponding costly maintenance. My first question regarded as to why short trips would be "harder" (mythical or not) on a diesel than a gas engine. Nobody has provided concrete information or data as to why this might be true. Another issue I can't quite get squared away is that diesels are MUCH more prevalent in Europe than in the US and there is no fundamental issue with diesel durability as compared to gas. This of course assumes that the basic design methodologies are the same.
As best I can tell the major maintenance "issues" with a diesel as compared to gas are:
1) Frequent oil changes - why? the oil is used to cool the turbo bearings and gets contaminated at a faster rate (see #2)
2) Fuel filter - diesel fuel by nature is dirty
3) Engine coolant in regards to engine cylinder wall pitting corrosion - the energy release is significantly higher and longer causing higher vibrations in the block resulting in pitting corrosion with inadequate corrosion barriers
Through proper maintenance all of these "issues" can be managed.
My question to the experts in the audience is: why do short trips damage a diesel more than a gas engine? and what are the, pardon the phrase, "Top 10" maintenance "differences" regarding a diesel as compared to a gas engine?
The only thing that I noticed with short trips (Less than 3 miles one way to work.) in a diesel (6.9L) was that mileage went down about 15%.
A far as maintenance goes. I change the oil on my PSD about every 5K. I use 15-40 from WalMart. (It's Q-State and meets API specs.) Every 15K I check the coolant for the need for anti-cavitation additive (a.k.a. Fleet Guard or FW- something like 16 or 17) and change the fuel filter. The fuel filters can be had on the web inexpensively as can the FW-whatever.
The nice thing about diesel maintenance is that it can be done at home. (It ain't brain surgery or rocket science.) The big maintenance of oil, lube filter, cavitation fluid and fuel filter takes me an hour to 90 minutes. And it's a h--- of a lot more exercise than clicking the remote.
Rich
The one kicker is of course maintenance...I know that the oil,filter and fuel filter needs changed about every 3k miles. I have found one local dealer that will give free lifetime oil changes for as long as I own the truck.Any and all advise appreciated...
I really recommend going with a diesel engine - the main reasons are obvious - more power, better fuel economy, and more durable. A V-10 would still pull your trailer, but you'll get shi_ for gas mileage.
I have a close friend who recently bought a 1990 Jayco fifth-wheel that tips the scales at just over 14200 pounds. He uses a 1999 F-550 dually, diesel, flatbed to pull it and he loves it. Says he hasn't had any problems with it.
I hope that this has been a help to you.
-Ken
I don't know of any reason to change the fuel filter every 3K miles. Every 15K is more like it, per Ford recommendations.
IMHO, every 3K is over kill for oil changes too. Every 5K is sufficient for just about every type of driving except city delivery. (The engine is left idling at each stop.) I KNOW that I'm leaving myself wide open on the 5K bit; but oh well.
Rich
I totally agree, been doing it for 14 years. 1st truck had over 180K miles, 2nd truck only 94K, new truck only 18K (99 F250,V10,4X4,sc). I live in Atlanta and do a lot of city driving, never a problem and never used any oil.
V10 gas mileage w/3.73 gears and a heavy foot...
City..............................12-13mpg
Highway empty(75-80mph)...........15-16mpg
Highway 7400lb 27' TT(70-75mph)....9-10mpg
Towing 14,000 lbs....
Go with the medium duty truck!!!
Get a hold of a Coast-To-Coast camping magazine or something like it. It has great sources for finding the Freightliners and other trucks. They cost more up front but can last for 300K miles and more.
Power to pull is great, and you can always add on more power to a light duty. Its very hard to add on more stopping power and control.
I am also looking for a newer truck, mostly because I need 4x4. Will a '93 351, or a newer 5.4 in an F250 handle a 21' camp trailer? I don't know the weight, but it's older ('73 Invader) and fairly heavy. My '89 diesel 5 sp. barely handles it on hills.
Let me know if you see a deal on a '95 or newer CCab or Scab Pstroke in the Utah area.
Thanks,
Bernie
I ordered my FW-16 from these folks. The cost for 6 bottles and shipping was about what the dealer charged for one and a half or two. (*&*(&^^&$ dealer parts departments! They carry about everything that you need for the truck. I think that I got 6 FW-16, cavitation test kit, 6 fuel filters, K & N element and cleaning/recharge stuff all for $150. (I think. The info is not at hand right now.) They always seem to have deals on something. My order was delayed for the K & N but they called to let me know the status. For the prices, I can be very patient.
www.dieselpage.com
Rich
Thanks in advance,,,