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War of the Compacts: Frontier, Ranger, Tacoma, S10, Dakota, B-Series, & Hombre
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Comments
Another good day at work,A tin knocker's apprentice told me his 1st day on the job they sent him home because of his Nissan Frontier brand new too.He traded in for a new explorer which he says in his opinion is a much better truck than the Nissan,Almost as good as a story as gluing a peice of plywood on the windsheild of a tacoma or the secretary who came out to find her camry sitting on 4 milk crates.I love the USA,Its to bad that Toyota builds a billion dollar plant for the Tundra then pays its non UAW workers 1/3 less than they should be making.Every one thinks they're helping out,all hey are really doing is saving on tarriffs.its cheaper for them to assemble them in the US then it is to ship them here.
Even if they would let US businesses import more who's to say the population could afford the imports(cars radios or whatever). Most of Japan's working population doesn't own a car(no where to park them or drive them even if they could afford them). Over 90% of their population lives in apartments or condos(where there's a waiting list). These are all reasons why we don't NEED to export our vehicles, we have the BEST economy and NATION our cars are built have the most options available another thing that might make them sell overseas(if there are people here waiting 6-8 months for a Sport trac imagine how long the wait would be in Japan). Besides if the Americans are selling 4:1 against the Japanese brands why do they need to export? Japan probably sells as many cars here as they do in their own country
Also, I've read in a few different articles that Japanese auto companies sell the majority of their product in North America.
I'm probably wrong, though.
http://www.freetrade.org/pubs/speeches/ct-dg072298.html
Concerning automobiles, the U.S. assertion that low market share is only the result of unfair
Japanese trade practices will not endure any analysis of the history of American automobile companies’ involvement in the Japanese market. Those companies, by their own admission, have
rarely exerted much effort to penetrate the Japanese market. As Chrysler chairman Robert Eaton
stated in 1994, "We expect to be only a niche player. . . . We don’t have any volume or penetration goal [for foreign markets]."
Until 1993, no American automobile company produced a right-hand-drive vehicle for the Japanese market. Even today, none of the Big Three firms, General Motors, Ford, and Chrysler, market models in the small two-liter-and-under class, which is the dominant class in the Japanese
automobile market. In contrast, the Europeans, whose market penetration is growing rapidly, offer
more than 100 right-hand-drive models and 124 models in the two-liter-and-under category. In
1993, European automobiles, mostly German, captured over one-third of the Japanese luxury automarket.
Also, how about all those two-tiered wage scale UAW plants. You know, where new workers get about $8 a hour, while the old union fat cats still rake in the dough. Yeah, I bet the Republicans caused that too...
Scotti81: '00 GMC Sonoma, 4.3L, ZQ-8 Sportside. You are not alone!!
Michaelb9: You might try seeing if you could move up to the 3.0L six on the Ranger/B3000, true your
fuel economy will be worse, but the torque advantage over the Nissan is 26lb-ft. A guy at work has the 5spd/3.0L combo, he appreciates the added 'oomph off the line. As you can read above, I believe in GM, reliability has not been a problem for me. You might try giving a GM truck a try. This year Chevy has come out with a base extended cab S-10. Combined with healthy rebates, you might be able to find a real good deal. Yes, it's four does not have the power of the Nissan four, but it gets better mileage, plus you might find one with the optional, rear-opening, third-door. Loading tools in the back is a LOT easier with that feature. Just to be fair, I will mention Ford/Mazda offers this feature on both passenger and driver side. Good luck in you search!
Bookitty: You got me. I am an engineer by thought process and not a talmudic scholar, so I am usually fair game. Plus I am still filled with the milk of human kindnes because of my new 01.
Spoog: You can quote stats all you want and just prove to all the proverb about stats being lies and damn lies. Remember Clancy's book 'Debt of Honor'? One of the initiator of an economic war was the Japanese insistance that poor US quality was the reason that had to use their suppliers. Then a quality control problem resulted in numerous highway deaths. We buy our trucks for our needs, not because of the statistics. If statistics is the only pleasure you get from a vehicle, my pity.
The stats from THE NHSTA ( which is THE safety and defect qualifier in the auto industry) and JD powers are extremely helpful to any intelligent buyer.
If you want to purchase a reliable vehicle, you have to follow the stats.
The Bottom line is that Toyota makes the most reliable trucks in the world. If that is what someones need is, they can choose it.
And not all stats are lies. Please, enough with the conspiracy crap.
The numbers I posted are an OUTSTANDING way in which a consumer can determine what their needs are balanced with what the facts are on reliability, defects, and recalls.
Any reasonable human being with half a brain can comprehend this.
As far as conspiracies, you are the only one who has mentioned any. Are you seeing black helicopters? Is your dealer being monitored by the government for selling subversive pickups? The way you quote stats and talk conspiracies, you could be a leader of the DNC. I deal with goverment agencies daily and I can assure you that they are experts are spinning stats to what they want. And most of the ratings of vehicles are done by groups that have an agenda, usually financial.
To give you an example of the problem with government statistics, Texas and Oklahoma report violations of the Safe drinking Water Act to the EPA. According to the EPA, their stats show that Texas has a much better compliance rate. The difference is that Oklahoma reports the violations as they are issued, Texas waits until the utilities have the chance to correct the problem and only reports those still in violation. Stats are a tool that should be taken with a grain of reality. Trying living in the real world for a change.
(1) Nissan - good 4-banger, good reliability, should last 10yrs, affordably priced
(2) Ranger/B-Series - get the 3L upgrade for $400, almost as good as the imports in reliability, much better daily driver & hauler than a 4 when coupled with the 5-speed, very inexpensively priced (just check out some of the closeout deals and rebates/ffinancing), should last 10yrs
I wouldn't pick a Toyota because:
- 2wd (not prerunner) is just plain ugly
- too expensive
- questionable safety
I wouldn't pick a Dakota because:
- their V8s (IMHO) are the only good choices
- too expensive (see first point)
- will it last 10yrs? (improving, tho)
I wouldn't pick an S10 because:
- The General pi$$es me off
- will it last 10yrs?
- wait a year for their new engine lineup
- styling needs some freshening
I am not saying ignore stats, just don't bet the farm on them. To throw page after page of stats as proof positive that Toyota is the only good vehicle maker is assine. I am very interested in why a person may like a particular model, but have little respect for someone that tries to use statistics to badmouth someone else's choice. No one has the same needs and therefore we have to make choices based on our needs, not some reports by outside agencies. The intelligent person makes decisions based on his evaluation and a network of information.
We all buy vehicles based on experience and instinct. Sometimes we are wrong, hopefully we are right most of the time. The majority of vehicles are well made and reliable, but every now and then, a person may get a lemon. Statistics is only a small part of the decision making process and should be treated as such.
I think that you need to go out and find those stats to make that buyers remorse (deep sense of guilt) go away.I don' blame you some how you have to justify looking at that thing everyday(Man Are They Ugly)so do yourself a favor and get rid of it.Trade in in on a new QC V8 Dakota,your eyes will thank you..As the JAPANESE say you can still "SAVE FACE"..
Buy American as much as you can....The Japanese do!
Allen-
Hey, I only got 17 years and 400,000 miles out of my #@%! Dodge Minivan!
thecargonzo: also thanks for advice. I will check out the Chevy/GM too. Have noticed quite a few in the neighborhood.
Dakota and Tacoma are out. Thousands more for low end offering of each. At least the Dodge is bigger for the extra money. Tacoma is the smallest truck I've been in, for the most money of any compact. I know many people love them, but I don't get it. maybe too old...
Give your local dealer the specs you want and have them do a search. Odds are they'll find a truck that meets your basic specs at the very least.
How long has the current version of the Dakota been out?
Someone posted that Clinton was the one who started NAFTA it wasn't.I'm pretty sure it was Bush if not him then Reagan.Although I liked both presidents especially for there power with the military.I think Gore is the best choice right now if you want the Country to continue to prosper.
Thus, the body will be recognizable after 5-6 years. ;-> This was my #1 priority...BTW
BUT Demonstrated by 100s of available trucks to observe on the roads, the FACT remains,
Rust over the rear wheel-wells is prevalent.
THERE: I am being an equal-opportunity observer regardless of nameplate on the rig.
Actually, the only smokin' Dodge that I have now is that new 4.7L V8 Dakota!!!
TRD package is a joke. The locker can only be engaged in 4low! and per Toyota at 5mph! The limited slips offered by Ford/Nissan/Dodge are always available and don't need to be engaged. Anyone who offroads knows the limited use of lockers and their ability. I would be willing to bet 97% of the TRD owners engage their lockers maybe once a year! Toyota marketing is good, Enjoy the stickers!
I am going to go out on a limb and say that I think the best truck is the one that fits your needs the best.It is the one that you ultimately put your money down because you know that the vehicle will do what you want it to do.It does not matter what I or anybody else thinks about the performance,reliability,statistics,or looks.We did not buy that particular truck for our own reasons,just as you did not buy one of ours for your own reasons.
Oh yeah, what did you mean by your comment about "The General" in that post? You lost me on that one.
Bookitty
I haven't been happy with the direction that their vehicles have taken over the past few years. Everything is bigger, more plasticy, gaudier, looney toonier, auto-trannied, technologically slower (cams and such), and generally styled like something that came out of the Playdough factory. The only decent car they've got is the Vette. Everything else is the same bland old rehashed frontdriver. Their trucks are decent but nothing special. They haven't been near the forefront of innovation in years and years. For GM fan's sake, I hope they change, or they'll be a less appealing Honda-type of producer minus the S2K.
Lets keep in mind that for ANY vehicle I buy, the corrosion-protection is one of my #1 concerns. That said, I feel the best way to determine a vehicles strengths in this area is to observe what is presently on the roads today. (Look for RUST BUCKETS and FLINTSTONE-MOBILES)
I have read about the different steels used by the various automakers. Also the paint application techniques (POWDERCOAT rules!!) and use of a clearcoat are all factors. (Dakota uses Powdercoat ref http://www.autointell.com/chrysler7.htm )
Even given the above knowledge, I am firmly convinced that Toyota and Nissan will rust MUCH faster than GM... From my research, Dodge has had the best corrosion protection among popular automakers. Mercedes among others actually DIPS the body in a galvanizing tank during the manufacturing process. (True galvanizing is an ELECTROPLATING process that involves the flow of electric current)
Of coarse, the PLASTIC body panels on Saturn and the new VW bug will NEVER rust. Also, I believe the Chevy Lumina APV (Minivan) has plastic too.
Engaged that locker lately? I don't think so...
ANd for Bpeebles: I am firmly convinced that GM will rust MUCH faster than anything else. My S-10 had the chronic rust over the wheel wells problem even though I waxed the truck and cleaned it almost weekly. My old Corsica just flat out rusted all over the place. None of my Nissans have ever rusted. So I guess your opinion is about as valid as mine then, huh.
Its not really a major issue, it just bugs me every time i go to wash my windshield.