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Ford Mustang (2005) vs. 2005 Pontiac GTO
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Comments
So is the GTO. The original Muscle Car. All of them were V8 only. No 4 or 6's.
"Drive one, you'll like i!."
I did drive one, pretty nice car, but there is more to a car then just looks. IMHO the GTO road nicer, more luxury like, more comfortable seats, usuable back seat for family and it's interior was nicer then Stang. Basically it's a 4 passenger Corvette for $10k - $15k less.
"The Mustang looks like a copy of 1968 Mustang, not too original."
Well, consider this: I was at a car show this weekend (sponsored by the Mustang Club of Austin) which had many, many '65 thru '70 model Mustangs. They still look good. Heck, there were even a couple of 1st gen Camaros in attendence. They still look good.
Been to many car shows featuring Cavaliers or GrandAms?
The point being - having style which evokes a classic is generally regarded as being a good thing. Having style which evokes a 10 year old entry-level car is not.
If the standard reply to "the GTO looks like a GrandAm" is going to be "oh yeah? The Mustang looks like a '68 fastback", well then I guess all I can say is "yep, sure does. Ain't it great?"
What does that have to do with Mustang vs Gto? I have been to many shows featuring the 2004 and 2005 GTO. Sorry, but it commands a lot more attention then you think. I have had just as many people coming up to me at the shows as the 2005 Stang owners..
"The point being - having style which evokes a classic is generally regarded as being a good thing"
Sorry the old Mustangs are not classics and either are the old GTO's. They are antique/collector cars. A Classic is a Generally high-priced when new and was built in limited quantities car made in 1948 or prior !!
The Mustang was a high production car for the masses, thus it will never be termed a Classic by the Classic Car Club of America. Most likely the GTO never will be either.
Time will tell with the Mustang retro design. Look at what happened to Fords Retro Tbird. Hot seller with big dealer markups, "Got to Have" then by the 3rd year they couldn't give them away, thus $10k off MSRP and they finally cancelled it.
The point being that the old Mustang 'look' (generally regarded as a 'classic look' by most non-GM owners) is generally regarded as a 'good' thing. Or at least a few hundred thousand people in the first year seem to think so.
On the other hand, a 'look' which generally brings to mind a mid-90's GM sedan is generally regarded less favorably. You can spin this all you want, but (and here I quote a GM owner of past Pontiac musclecars and current owner of a C5 Corvette), "Ford absolutely killed Chevy with the new Mustang. It makes me sick that GM just rolled over on 'em with the Camaro."
Well, you could argue that the GTO is not the Camaro. In most respects it's a much better car. BUT, GM cannot attract large numbers of young first time buyers looking for a performance automobile at a reasonable price with a GTO. The Camaro had that ability. To replace the Camaro in their lineup, and to fill this requirement, they have the Cobalt (featured prominantly as the 'little brother' to the Corvette in Chevy marketing). Yep, that's right. Chevy replaced the Camaro with the Cobalt. And it is precisely BECAUSE GM 'rolled over' to Ford that we are left comparing the Mustang to the GTO, rather than the Mustang to the Camaro.
Tbird comparison - are you seriously putting forth the opinion that the new Mustang is just a flash in the pan, destined for market withdrawal in just a few years? Interesting.
And on top of that, in every review that you read about the Mustang, the reviewer basically sums it up with everything that was "wrong" with the Mustang has been made "right" with this generation.
In my opinion, if GM had made a retro Camaro/Firebird from the same period, it would've been extremely hard for folks to decide whether to buy a Mustang or one of the GM twins.
gxpgtodanman also comments that the Mustang's design isn't original (or something to that effect). How is the GTO's design original? It looks just like its siblings. A Mustang will never be mistaken for anything other than a Mustang. That can't be said of the GTO.
The Cobalt is NOT replacing the Camaro, it's replacing the old Cavalier. The Cobalt SS outperforms the V6 Mustang. Runs mid to high 14's. The facts are that the young first time buyers are going into the Front wheel drive compact sports scene, which the Cobalt SS should do very well in. They aren't buying F body or Mustangs anymore or I should say as well as they used too. The avg age on Mustang buyers is higher then it was 10+yrs ago. All of the V8 Stangs I have seen are older people. Same with GTO's, except me.
My mistake on Mustang to Tbird comparison. I think at some point Stang sales will cool off. Probably still be good for 100k+ a year though.
The V6 Mustang just like V6 Fbody these younger 1st buyers are buying is NOT a performance vehicle. It's all show and no go. Hyundai Tiburons, Civics, RSX;s cobalts are just as fast if not faster then V6 stang. And their engines are more refined then the truck Explorer/Ranger V6 found in Stang.
That said the avg young 1st time buyer can NOT afford a V8 Mustang that starts for $25k and approaches $30k. Let alone a GTO. The insurance is horrendously high on Mustang V8 if you are young. Just like Fbody. Where as the Cobalt etc is much cheaper.
For me in my early 30's, the 400hp GTO was almost $250 cheaper per year then V8 Mustang to insure. Same coverages, etc.
In other words, abandon that market rather than fix what's wrong with the product. And don't say that the market was going away since, as you pointed out, Mustang sales kept even or increased.
"The Cobalt is NOT replacing the Camaro, it's replacing the old Cavalier."
With the V6 Camaro, GM had only 1 competitor in the inexpensive, RWD performance coupe market (Mustang). And an essentially captive audience (domestic buyers) to sell to.
Now, with the Cobalt SS, GM has a minimum of 1/2 dozen very strong competitors in the FWD sporty coupe market, some offering better performance, and the target audience is predominately import buyers.
And this makes sense? So the Cobalt SS outperforms the V6 Mustang. At what point will GM realize that 1/4 mile times do NOT define how a car will do on the market. You say the Cobalt doesn't replace the Camaro. Actually, I agree with you. But if that's the case, then NOTHING replaced the Camaro and, as I've pointed out, that simply means that GM abandoned that market COMPLETELY to Ford. Sad.
"The avg age on Mustang buyers is higher then it was 10+yrs ago."
Really? Where have you found that little stat? I seem to remember a big argument in this very thread from GTO fans that were making the case that the Mustang is essentially a high school kids car suitable more for high schoolers and college students whereas the GTO was an 'adults' car.
I don't have any stats at hand either, but I'm of the opinion that the base Mustang has a better chance of making a dent in the import dominated sporty coupe market than the Cobalt (or old Mustang) because it offers distinctive styling. And style SELLS with that market.
GM has made a lot of mistakes, hopefully they can learn from them before they are too late.
A lot of the HS students that are getting new cars around me are getting mostly WRX/Impreza, civic si, SRT4/Neon, Evo etc. Even some Cobalt's. Knowone is really getting a Mustang. I thought I read that the avg mustang owner was older today, can't remember.
You are right, style does sell in some cases.
However IMHO there is more to a car then just styling. I look at the whole package, interior, ride, comfort etc. To me the GTO is perfect in all those categories and has it nailed except styling.
Dif topic, but Accord/Camrys are among the DULLEST/boring looking cars on the road, YAWN...yet are #1 sellers? Style isn't always everything.
my comparison to BMW was that both have an understated type of style and performance. BMW's is elegant, timeless; myself, most people I've talked to and EVERY single article I've read say the GTO's is too bland and lackluster. (But as you say, these are just subjective opinions.) Unlike Ford with the Mustang, it seems GM took a great performing Australian sports sedan and gave it a famous American muscle car name. Its styling seems like an afterthought, and like the Dodge Charger, only representative of the classic model in name. Since the last GTO was made in 1974, how can a 30 year gap be a great history of quality and performance? Both the Mustang and the BMW have been around for most of the last three decades, so both have become household names. Not only does the new Mustang have award-winning styling, but it seems as if Ford has eliminated the Pony’s flaws and greatly accentuated its strengths.
As for the stylistic comparison to other more basic Pontiacs/GM, I'm not sure why this seems to offend some GTO owners. I have no problem knowing my 2005 GT looks remarkably like a more common, basic V6. I’m willing to bet the vast majority of objective observers regardless of their age will say the GTO looks very much like a Grand Am, Cavalier, etc. As for their being another 189,999 people on the road with 2005 Mustangs, I could care less. It’s a great car and its sales numbers are representative of that. I don’t base my buying decision on what others are buying or not buying. I can use the aftermarket to personalize my car and the large numbers of other Stang Drivers guarantee available parts and comrades-in-rubber burning.
Rorr handled the 1968/2005 Mustang copy comment exceedingly well .much better than I could at least. I agree though the GTO should command attention. It is a great performing, rare car. Whether Mustangs are technically Classics are not is simply semantics. I and thousands of Americans would die for a Non-Classic Mustang GT, Shelby, GTO, or Charger.
Bland cars like the Civic, Accord, and Camry sell well, because they are reliable "automotive appliances." Their buyers do not expect much performance or wow factor; they just want dependable, cost effective transportation. There are many sport coupes with style, however. Scion is ALL style if you talk to young buyers as are certain new options from Pontiac and Saturn (Solstice and Sky). Most sports car buyers, however, want performance with looks. This is the connection that I find lacking in the GTO and abundant in the Mustang.
Elias,
I agree the GTO offers a great deal of performance for a great price. No one can dispute it will beat a stock Mustang GT, but the difference is not significant to me. Nor is it to every comparison I've read. But again, to be fair, give me 3-4 grand to even the price delta and a "supped" Mustang will outperform a GTO.
Gee, think this may have happened before? Hint: B-Body.
However IMHO there is more to a car then just styling.
Ever since I was, oh I dunno, in 6th grade, I have always said I'd rather have a car that looks like a junker but goes fast (sleeper) than a car that looks "cool, yo" but goes slow (I think we know who this is).
I don't buy mass produced cars like Camry-Accord-Mustang etc. I don't want to have what everyone else on the block does. My GXP is a company car, didn't buy it. But to each their own!!
Lets get one thing straight, the V6 Mustang does NOT have performance, it's looks only, just like the ones on the Hertz rental lot, my family Acura is faster/better performing and better built. Only the V8 model has performance. The scion with the Toyota dealer installed Supercharger is FASTER then V6 Stang !! And not much more $$, $21k. Accord coupe will blow the doors off V6 stang too. 5.9 seconds with Stick. In fact it will run with the V8 Mustang !!
"But again, to be fair, give me 3-4 grand to even the price delta and a "supped" Mustang will outperform a GTO."
But the GTO already has better interior, better seats, better build quality, usuable backseat, IRS, etc. Getting C6 Corvette drivetrain for $15k less. It would take a lot more $4k to fix that in mustang. It's not all about going fast. It's quality too. Mustang is a pony car. A cheap car to go fast. Just like F bodies were. GTO is more of a luxury performance car that still out performs the stang in every category according to MPH , C&D etc. Everyone knows the GTO won the C&D comparo where it counted except the ultimate 1 point loss because of "Got to have it" factor, LOL!
I thik we have talked this to death already, time to move on. In the End we can AGREE to DISAGREE then.
:surprise: :surprise:
Umm... Don't think so. Not even the previous generation GT.
I think so. Accord V6 coupe is same or faster then previous generation Mustang GT V8.
1999 to 2004 Mustang V8 ran high 5's to low 6's
2003 and on Accord V6 coupe ran high 5's.
Good drivers race. :P
I like buying good American cars and had no problem buying a first year model in the case of the new Mustang. Don't think that the new GTO is without its own problems. Check the boards and good luck with parts shipped from Australia.
"But the GTO already has better interior, better seats, better build quality, usuable backseat, IRS, etc. Getting C6 Corvette drivetrain for $15k less. It would take a lot more $4k to fix that in mustang. It's not all about going fast. It's quality too. Mustang is a pony car. A cheap car to go fast. Just like F bodies were. GTO is more of a luxury performance car that still out performs the stang in every category according to MPH , C&D etc. Everyone knows the GTO won the C&D comparo where it counted except the ultimate 1 point loss because of "Got to have it" factor, LOL! "
“Cheap” is a relative term...I’m sure my used Mustang Premium GT Convertible with Interior Upgrade Package is valued at more than your used GTO in the current market...even with your Corvette drive train and supposedly better quality...and these were two cars that were similar in price when new...and the performance charactersitics were not that much different to sway me away from a Mustang GT.
I’m not sure what GM was thinking when it re-badged an Australian built car with the GTO name. It's a nice car for sure, but The GTO appears to be a band aid approach to this market until GM brings back the Camaro...a car that was available in different models, has a long and respected North American history, and could compete with the Mustang across the board of this market.
True dat! In the end, we both love our respective hot rods and can easily compete with cars costing twice as much. But isn't this whole thread about a Goat vs. Pony debate? I must say though that the comparison of a 2005 Mustang GT with a V6 Accord is suspect. Not only is a similarly equipped Accord thousands more, the Mustang is nearly a second faster in 0-60. The Accord wins on finish and reliability, but the Mustang is the performance and styling king. If a stock GTO outperforms a stock Mustang GT (which it does by all of a 2-3 tenths), then a stock Mustang GT decimates the Accord. Let's stick to the same standard.....
If the GTO was such a great car, sales numbers would support that. Yet the opposite is true. I think most people (who aren't going to the track) don't consider performance numbers the end all, be all to buying a car. And the performance differences between the GTO and Mustang GT are not huge.
The Stang has much more than "WoW Factor"...C&R says it best...
"So what was the Mustang's appeal? Well, we're suckers for a great body, and the Mustang looks a lot better than the GTO. Disparage the Mustang's '60s styling if you must, but get ready to face the reality that the GTO's banality is pure '90s. Furthermore, the Mustang wins because when you take it in, as a total package, the Ford makes better sense. Pick apart the Mustang's laundry list of simple components, and it will seem to be less of a car than the GTO, but drive the Mustang, and it feels like far more than the sum of its parts. That is the draw of the Mustang: It makes the most of what it has, doesn't suffer for what it doesn't have, charges you less than you'd expect, and beckons from the showroom until you come and take it home."
believe I posted this about 100pgs back, but I'm sure they were thinking "Hey this Aussie coupe is fast, has a really cool interior, drives great, seems to be screwed together well, and we could sell it for around $30k in the US. I bet we could move around 15,000/yr. Let's import some. Hey we could call it a GTO."
I like the way mine looks other than a slightly awkward treatment of the rear quarters, (makes the wheels look small). Do I wish I had a Mustang GT instead - no way! Do I expect Mustang ownres to prefer my GTO - no, that's why they bought Mustangs. Both nice cars - I like mine better.
Not sure since KBB does not have resale/used data on '05 GTO or '05 GT yet posted. Too new. However for 2004 resale data....
Kelley blue Book Private Party mint condition, 12k miles similar equipped 2004 Mustang Gt vis 2004 GTO
2004 Mustang worth $19,235 sold privately
2004 GTO worth $23,385 sold privately
GTO is worth $4k more. Enough said!!
2003 and on Accord V6 coupe ran high 5's.
You're comparing the automatic GT to the manual Accord. The manual GT from that era runs mid-5s 0-60. The manual Accord runs very high 5s to mid-6s 0-60. The Accord would be smoked.
Comparing auto-to-auto, the GT from that era ran high 5s to low 6s 0-60. The Accord is mid-6s to low 7s 0-60.
Apples to apples, the Accord would be thoroughly smoked. :P
Both cars did well in the C&D test. Mustang 211, GTO 210 in points. Very close!
From C&D "With 6.0 liters of power, it won most of the performance tests as well as the fun-to-drive category"
I would have liked if they could have made a cheaper version of the GTO, maybe cloth seats, etc. Then again that would have cost to much, the car was already in production in Aussie land. GM already spent enough $$ making sure the car met US standards.
2004 GTO worth $23,385 sold privately
GTO is worth $4k more. Enough said!!
You're not serious?? :confuse:
That's not even the same Mustang! Come on, buddy. This thread is Ford Mustang (2005+) vs. 2005 Pontiac GTO.
1999 to 2004 Mustang V8 runs 5.6 seconds Manual shift
2003- Accord V6 coupe runs 5.9 seconds Manual shift
Wow .3 seconds dif, Small dif to me.
I am NOT an accord or Japanese car fan either. Esp after my 1 Acura. Just pointing out that some cars are faster then you think.
As for 2004 resales , I stand corrected, the numbers don't lie.
Furthermore, when a lot of these 200,000+, 2005 Mustangs come up for lease and the used car market is flooded 3 yrs from now, that will really KILL/plummet the used car value on the 2005.
I see many of the same discussions as months ago.
Regarding resale....we all know that the '05 Mustang GTs are tough (if not impossible) beasts to find. My dealer is totally sold out of all '05 GTs as well as his allotment of '06 GTs through January '06.
I've had 3 offers on my '05 GT with 4,000 miles on the clock. All of them were MSRP offers ($28K). One was even from a Toyota dealership.
From what I can tell, around here, used '04 GTOs are in the paper for about $22.5K "asking price". '05s GTOs are about $25K "asking price". I'd assume they can be bought for less than that.....say $21K for the '04s (although, I've seen them sell for $19K) or $23K-$24K for used '05s.
That said, there's still a few new '04 GTOs lingering on the lots and a good selection (over 50) of new '05s hanging around the dealers within about a 25 mile radius of me.
From Terry (rroyce), the resident trade value guru, responding to a post I made a few weeks ago....
".. **but my 4 month old '05 Mustang GT, with 3K miles on the odo had an offer of $28K from a Toyota dealer. I paid $25,500 this past winter for it (X plan). That $28K number is the MSRP. Don't know if that's a good reference point, but it gives you an idea of how crazy that market is.** ...
That's a pretty safe reference point right now ... $28,0 from a Yota dealer doesn't surprise me, he could either run it off to the auction and get $29/$30,0 depending on the day and barometric pressure or sell off the lot and get get get, well whatever he gets ..l.o.l... the first one I bought I paid more than you at $27,5 but sold it 72 hrs later for $29,9 .... I've seen Ford, Lexus even Benz dealers step up and pay some stupid money for the pre-owned, so they must be selling ........."
Terry.
As I said, I will base my resale numbers of KBB or NADA etc, before someone else assuming/posting on the internet.
Let me know 3 to 5 yrs from now what your 2005 Mustang gets? I'm sure it's 50% to 66% loss in value !!
Not many people are selling their car the 1st they buy it unless they are usually have some kind of financial hardship or are Rich and don't care.
If you can supposedly sell your New Mustang for a $2,500 profit right now, then why don't you? You would be crazy not to. I certainly would. Something sounds fishy there.
Best of luck.
How do you figure that? The only thing that limited Ford's capacity to SELL V8 Mustangs was their ability to PRODUCE V8 Mustangs. When people are waiting months for the opportunity to get a Mustang GT, what makes you think Ford could have sold a single unit more if the GTO didn't exist?
I'll turn it around: how many '05 GTO sales are due to people who would have PREFERRED to buy a Mustang but didn't want to wait? Hmmmmmmm?
Never said the GTO didn't have problems, but at least I can put gas in it. Ford finally fixed that. As for parts from Austraila? True. Some of the Mustang parts, like the Shaker, no it's not in reference to the solid rear axle, the shaker radio, were on national backorder with waiting times too!!
“Cheap” is a relative term...I’m sure my used Mustang Premium GT Convertible with Interior Upgrade Package is valued
As we all know, Convertible are NOT as safe in a collision as a hardtop, esp if you flip over. less ridgity
many of the items you had to PAY for are std on GTO.
Locking gas cap door, built into glass radio antenna, hood struts, Not available on Mustang
Shaker stereo is OPTION, while Blaupunkt is std on GTO
Leather wrapped wheel/shifter and other interior appointments OPTION, STD on GTO
Leather interior, Optiona, STD on GTO
Anti-theft alarm and Auto tranny OPtiona, STD on GTO
No Std V8 on Mustang, unrefined truck derived V6 of Explorer/Ranger fame. Very noisy @ high rpms.
No IRS, std on GTO.
The List goes on and on. There is a reasaon why Stang start at $19k or $20k.
I am pretty certain the GTO took some of the high end premium GT V8 Mustang sales away as well as G35 / 350z etc.
Sorry, I would never wait months or pay MSRP for any car. Wait until the 2nd or 3rd year when demand drops and better deals come out. Next year's Mustang will have 450hp, I would wait. That is why I waited for 2005 GTO, 400 vs 350hp. But to each their own. There is no car that "I got to have"
"I'll turn it around: how many '05 GTO sales are due to people who would have PREFERRED to buy a Mustang but didn't want to wait? Hmmmmmmm?"
Actually on the GTO boards, there a few people who dumped/sold/traded in their 2005 Mustangs on 2005 GTO's.. Go figure? Never heard of someone trading in their new GTo for a new Mustang though. Must tell you something.
Three thoughts immediately spring to mind:
1) BS. Don't believe everything you read.
2) Perhaps they pick the car up at a relatively good price (like gguy has), re-sold the car for a profit, and used the extra profit to get a GTO. In other words, they leveraged themselves into a GTO. When a car is in as much demand as the current Mustang GT, I can see it.
3) They bought the car with drag racing as a primary motivation and then lost to a GTO at a race. Got PO'd, sold the Mustang and bought the GTO.
In other words, some folks buy cars based primarily on 1/4 mile times. A few of them occasionally show up in this thread.
"Never heard of someone trading in their new GTo for a new Mustang though."
Why would they do that? The GTO IS a very good car after all.
Crazy not to? Why? I love the car. By the time I order another one, it's going to take until next Spring for me to get it. My dealer did the X plan deal last winter (among the worst winters in recent memory) when they had scant little business, at all....on any vehicle. I can't cut that same deal today.....it's MSRP, now.
I was tempted to sell it to the Toyota dealership but knew I couldn't replace it in the foreseeable future.
You can doubt me if you want, doesn't matter to me, but Terry over at Real World Trade in Values is the acknowledged "final source" about car values.
Speaking of trades, many people that had '04 GTOs traded them for '05 Mustang GTs.
I'd say that the only people who jumped from the Mustang GT to the GTO would be the ones who coudln't get the Mustang due to the strong demand. I was one of them. If my Mustang hadn't come in, I considered the GTO. Very glad I stuck it out and waited to get what I wanted.
I've seen GTO's, 350Zs...even one 330i traded for a Mustang GT. Now, would I trade a 330i for a Mustang? Nope! But someone wanted the Mustang bad enough to do just that.
When my RX8 was totalled, I had the opportunity to buy whatever I wanted with the insurance check. Could have bought another RX8 (not such a bad thing) or a 350Z (another good choice).
I'd never tell me dealer this, but I would have paid $28K MSRP (with IUP aluminum dash, side airbags, active anti-theft, Shaker, ICAP red leather interior) to get my Mustang. As luck would have it, I only had to pay x-plan price of $25.5K, which was icing on the cake.
Yes, I'm sure that some people looked at the two cars, and decided to buy the GTO instead. But you can't say that Ford has somehow LOST sales since they simply can't keep up with demand. If Honda were to find a way to sell an Accord V6 for $10,000 but their factory couldn't produce more than 100k units a year, would it be your position that Toyota had somehow 'took sales away' from Honda because they still sold some Camrys?
"Sorry, I would never wait months or pay MSRP for any car."
On general principals, neither would I. And when it comes to the Mustang, personally I wouldn't wait months or pay over MSRP either. My question though is - how many buyers of '05 GTO's, if they COULD have bought a Mustang GT off the lot for less than MSRP, WOULD have?
1999 to 2004 Mustang V8 runs 5.6 seconds Manual shift
2003- Accord V6 coupe runs 5.9 seconds Manual shift
Wow .3 seconds dif, Small dif to me.
That's a larger difference than between the '05 GT and '05 GTO! You guys swear up and down that the .1s difference between the GTO and GT is "no contest," but you have the audacity to say that the .2s - .3s difference between the old GT and an Accord is "a drivers race????" :surprise: :confuse: :confuse: :surprise:
Come on, buddy. And the Mustang's time was 5.4s. A half second faster than the Accord! And you call that a drivers race?
Unfortunately, the only reliable numbers we have come from sources like the trade rags. I'm not going to believe your numbers on the track and you aren't going to believe mine....regardless of any time slips posted (who's to say the time slip isn't from a different race).
If you're main intent is quick ET, aren't there better bang for the buck choices than EITHER of these two vehicles? Or is it all simply what used to be called 'barstool racing'.
Besides, just how often do you think a Mustang owner would just happen to be lined up at a stoplight with a GTO? Gguy, how often has this happened to you? Is it really worth it for the 2-3 times a year this might happen?
Both will dust a good 99% of the iron on the street.
Mostly, it's the japanese iron that tries to cafe race with me. Some 350Zs have tried (unsuccessfuly), but mostly it's the Acura/Civic set. I've got a few "thumbs up" from the F-body crowd, but none of them have tried to do any stop light wars.
A couple of weeks ago, I got into a tussle with a late model Cobra, but there wasn't enough clear road to really do anything more than "gun it" for 50-100 yards.
Had another guy in a GTP attempt it but it was over before it really began.
So, to answer your question....NO....I haven't really done any streeting up against a GTO and doubt I will.
As I always say, drive what you like, though.
Best thing for Pontiac to do right now with the GTO to right the wrongs is exactly what they have planned....give it a rest for '07 and then improve the styling and hopefully, the shifter and steering, then trim off about 400 lbs for a re-entry in '08.
And don't forget the slow seat motor for rear-seat access (although hopefully that's been corrected with the '06 models).
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I did get a Porsche a couple of weeks back and smoked him good.
I think he was shocked.
Mostly, I'm getting these yahoos in Acura's trying to challenge - not even worth the potential ticket, imo.
Its the August 11 GMtv
http://gmtv.feedroom.com/iframeset.jsp?ord=605697
Also www.pontiac.com/testdrive or http://speedtv.com/pontiac/
Can't win.
You have a point. Then again there is a certain number of people that paid MSRP or higher to have the first 2004 GTO's too. If you remember dealers were marking them up $5k over MSRP too. At least in my area.
Yep, I remember. Of course, the initial buying frenzy died down pretty quickly with the '04 GTO's and I don't recall much talk about waiting months for cars to come in. This would be another way the '04 GTO differed from the '05 Mustang... :P