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Ford Mustang (2005) vs. 2005 Pontiac GTO

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Comments

  • eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    i see what you are saying re the revs, casoncase. if i had dropped to 4th i probably could have pulled on that sweet looking modded GT. we were already doing 70 mph when he tried to pull away though. i've found that when i'm using 4th gear for riproaring highway acceleration i tend to accidentally encounter the rev limiter, so i am "shy" about using 4th on the highway.
  • lavrishevolavrishevo Member Posts: 312
    I think one of the reasons you don't gain upwards of 45 HP is because the stock 2.5 inch piping and exhaust manifolds are designed pretty good from the factory. Looking at the stock manifolds after I took it off I was impressed with the design. Although the headers are a lot more efficient, the stock design is not bad. And by the way my 60ft was 1.98 not 3.89.... :) on the stock 18" tires. Trap was 105.87
  • vertical3vertical3 Member Posts: 43
    Drove 2 GTO's w/ 6 speed in the Aussi chassis. Head snapping but interior was disappointing...no side airbags and where was the oil pressure/voltmeter gauges? Both a/c's sucked (Ft Lauderdale)and no sat radio.

    Bought 06 GT for 5500 less than dealer wanted for GTO. Lotsa fun, reliving my youth. Original idea on GTO was the fact I had been told they were being discontinued, figured collector car....dealer told me they'll be back in 09.

    ONLY dissapointment with Ford is NOW they're offering built in Sirius in the factory radios for 07. Oh well, I'll check e-bay in 6 months.
  • mike189mike189 Member Posts: 24
    YOU ARE CONCERNED VERY MUCH SO IF GM IS PAYING ATTENTION ,BUT ARE YOU???????????? FORD IS CLOSE TO BANKRUPTCY,THEY JUST SOLD ASTON MARKET AS A DITCH EFFORT TO HAVE CASH ,WHATS NEXT JAGUAR,VOLVO ?????????????
  • vertical3vertical3 Member Posts: 43
    Interesting.....I don't argue the Beemer makes a great vehicle (and a great bike as well), the 6 series is a stunner!. Depends on what you're looking for in a car (street racer v. rally racer) and how many $$$$ you wanna drop. But.....take the BMW into the maintenance department and feel the life force sucked out of your wallet.

    BTW, the BMW SUV's are American made so following the tradition of U.S. v. European made quality, the BMW may start to get a little tarnished (their X3 has taken some serious flak for QA).

    Still think the GT is a great bargain for the fun and options to upgrade.
  • isa6016isa6016 Member Posts: 2
    "feel badly" is what people say who think they "get" grammar but don't. You are just as deluded about cars. A few years ago when I saw the concept Mustang, I was quite interested. But the reality is borderline ugly. The GTO is a classic, understated beauty. Riddle me this: Why are Mustang GTs constantly pulling next to me revving their engines, begging to get their butt kicked? (I generally ignore them, eat your heart out, dude.) My guess: A great big inferiority complex. There is no comparison between that failing Edsel corporation and GM either.
  • vertical3vertical3 Member Posts: 43
    Again, why did GM short change you guys on safety (no side bags) and what every other GTO had in the past (full gauge cluster). Why has it been dropped by GM? Do you think that it will really be back in 09 given the new G8 as well as rising fuel prices?

    Hey, I'll be honest and say that I often 2nd guess myself on bypassing the Pontiac, more out of the fact I see so few of them compared to GT's, but you be honest....IF they did not come with the vette motor and gearbox but the 350 that was in the late 90's Impala SS, would you still have bought one?

    Would you buy a vette other than a ZO6? I've added some toys to the GT and it's just enough to get me in trouble both with the law and my health insurance provider. It's a year old Sunday and has 4600 miles on it. For me it takes me back to my teen years, for my 12 y/o it's just the quality time with Dad he wants (and needs). Enjoy your GTO, I enjoy my GT.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    At least a Mustang can't be mistaken for a Pontiac Sunfire.
  • schufflerbotschufflerbot Member Posts: 6
    to compare the GTO to the mustang GT is absolutely unfair to the GT. the GTO is a far superior machine, for far fewer dollars and the general public does not know that.

    which is just the way i like it.

    i cannot count the number of 'stangs that have tried and failed to keep up with me on the road/track, regardless of surface conditions or road layout.

    I have quite the history with mustangs, owned a couple, helped friends modify a couple, assisted in purchases for family, etc.

    when i heard the GTO i was sold.

    when i saw it...

    i bought one.

    any car can be made to go fast, stock for stock and dollar for dollar - you wont find a better deal than a GTO.

    i have the utmost respect for mustangs and always will. i never write one off until shes a dot in my rearview mirror, but for people to say that an 05 stang GT is a better car than a 2005 6.0 GTO...

    is just plain silly.
  • gzgtpgzgtp Member Posts: 83
    Is GM still making the GTO? I looked at one a couple of years ago and thought I was looking at a family car from a distance, except that it had no trunk space. Hopefully GM has some creative designers lined up for the next version. There is no excuse for it's bland look.
  • isa6016isa6016 Member Posts: 2
    vertical 3, the tone of your post showed intelligence. The side bags are why there is no 2007 GTO, the cost to develop them on existing platform (to match new fed requirements) too expensive. They will be on Camaro, 2009 GTO if there is one. Personally, I do not care. As far as GTO gauges, I had a new 1985 Camaro, then 1998 Camaro, and never, not once, saw oil pressure drop, so I do not miss that gauge. Battery voltage is helpful to know, but it is definitely not a big deal to me. The interior and gauge arrangement is beautiful, I have heard or read it often said that GTO has the most perfect interior of any GM car, and since that includes Cadillac and Buick, that is saying ALOT. Read an excellent analysis by Mike5215 here:
    http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156705&page=2
    It is hard for me to say how much the ls2 affected my decision, I just stopped by Pontiac dealer to kill time, not even thinking of GTOs, salesman saw me just admiring it, not even next to it, had not said a single word about it, offered me a test drive, from then on I could not rest until I had one. Best car decision I ever made by far.
    Vettes do not interest me, not even the Z06. They are amazing, but I prefer the GTO, understated but striking appearance, comfort, stance.
    I really like your close: You enjoy your GT, I'll enjoy my GTO. That is what the car thing is all about. Still think you made a mistake, though. :)
    schufflerbot, you rock.
  • schufflerbotschufflerbot Member Posts: 6
    beauty is in the eye of the beholder, my friend. i personally will never put a gigantic wing back on my car, nor stickers advertising my mods... in my humble opinion, the 'sleeper' look is where its at and this car has that concept nailed down.

    and no, they do not currently produce the GTO - theyre taking a little break. ;)
  • gzgtpgzgtp Member Posts: 83
    Sounds like we have some similar tastes. Less is more.
  • blackie1blackie1 Member Posts: 5
    Blackie 1 here. Any time you think that your G.T.O can take my 2006 stang then break open your piggy bank and you can see my rear plate. P.S I'll give you an education.
  • vertical3vertical3 Member Posts: 43
    RE: Sideair bags. Having T Boned a mini van who ran a light a month after picking up my new Expedition and but for a 1 second delay the roles would have been reversed, I want the whole enchilada......As far as the gauges since we both know unless it's European, a Viper, or Vette, none of the gauges are direct pressure but sending units to indicators instead of lights. Just disappointing that GM would take such a great muscle car and short change in some areas and splurge in others. The interior in the GTO is a great layout and case in point the aluminum pedals something Ford cheated me out of.

    Again, I test drove 2, awesome power, but a/c never functioned well (selected recirc, coldest temp, and asked semi intelligent salesman and sales manager). Also didn't want to budge to much $$$$ wise. Like I said earlier, my 13 y/o expects GT for college, so who knows....maybe I'd rethink after seeing 09's....

    Regardless, both of us are crying tears when filling up with premium....;)
  • vertical3vertical3 Member Posts: 43
    As indicated in previous posts I test drove 2 GTO's and have indicated my preferences on purchase of a GT. That being said, all of my fellow GT owners should also test drive a GTO when the opportunity presents itself to more accurately substaniate some of the perceptions posted.
  • schufflerbotschufflerbot Member Posts: 6
    LOL, Blackie1...

    I never indicated that it could. If you read my original post, I clearly stated that any car can be made to go fast, there are honda civics out there that will beat me up in the 1/4. I'm not talking about aftermarket mods - I'm talking about stock vs. stock.

    If you have a stock 2006 Mustang GT and want to run against my stock 2004 GTO, that is fine. I will gladly accept your lesson and give a friendly wave when you catch back up.
  • blackie1blackie1 Member Posts: 5
    Hey Schufflerbot, This is where the men leave the kids. Englishtown Raceway,your time,your date. ( Bring Money)One grand at least. Blacki 1 P.S Your Turn
  • angeliqueies11angeliqueies11 Member Posts: 2
    Will Ford be re-visiting the Mach 1 again for future year models? Has anyone heard anything yet of this?
    Thanx,
    Melissa
  • schufflerbotschufflerbot Member Posts: 6
    Hey Blackie1,

    Seeing as a trip to NJ would cost far more than $1,000.oo I'm going to go ahead and decline your kind offer. Driving a trailor that far would turn me off to the whole thing before reaching the edge of Texas and putting that many miles on the goat is out of the question.

    So, thanks anyways. Let me know if you're ever in Texas and we'll meet up.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    Sounds like a bunch of excuses to me.

    Chicken!!

    :P
  • blackie1blackie1 Member Posts: 5
  • blackie1blackie1 Member Posts: 5
    Schufferbot, I didn't realize that you were that far away. It seemed like you were here in N.Y. There was some brief excitement for me anyway. Blackie 1
  • im4brettim4brett Member Posts: 3
    We own a 2006 GTO. I have to say that we almost bought a Mustang GT but after researching & driving both the GTO was far better bang for the buck! Our friends only drive Fords. Years ago we had a Buick GN & our friend had to race his Mustang. Well you can imagine the results. Now our friend has a Mustang & wants to race. We dont want to make him look silly again :D I will say we really are excited & after 1 year just love our GTO. It is a sleeper. Does not look scary at all. We also love the fact that you see Mustangs EVERYWHERE you go. I rarely see a GTO. And Blackie1 drive your Stang here to MI & we will take you on!!!
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    ... We also love the fact that you see Mustangs EVERYWHERE you go. ...

    If you "love" that fact, why didn't you buy a Mustang?? :confuse: Then again, it was probably cheaper to buy the GTO.
  • vertical3vertical3 Member Posts: 43
    Hmmm,

    If you look at my earlier posts, you'll see it was just the opposite when I began my search. But no side airbag was a deal breaker (if you've ever been in a "T-Bone" you know what I mean) as well as a partial gauge cluster for otherwise an outstanding interior. Also no fold down back seat and a trunk that only by it's depth would it hold a piece of parachute luggage made it less attractive than a GT.

    RE: Less GTO's v. Mustangs...when you only make a car (imported for 2 years) and restrict build numbers what else would you expect? How many Vipers do you see?

    As for the sleeper angle, be careful what you wish for, some of us in our GT's enjoyed the amazed look on GTO driver's faces in our rear view mirrors as our 450-500 HP Pony's leave you behind. Some of us have "sleeper" motors waiting to wake up.......Don't play the "has to have a Supercharger angle", but for the bigger motor we're pretty close in weight. Drop a TB controlled stock 4.6 in yours with 300hp and the field is much more equal.

    Let's see what GM, the Pontiac Division and 2009 brings.
  • im4brettim4brett Member Posts: 3
    The Love the Mustang everywhere you go remark was sarcastic. Cant believe you didnt catch that.Also how could it be cheaper to buy a GTO? They cost more then the Mustang?
  • im4brettim4brett Member Posts: 3
    So what did you do to your 300 hp Mustang to get that much more hp? Run them stock & see what happens. Also Vertical the Goat was made for 3 years not 2. When we purchased ours last year there was plenty in stock locally.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    My remark was sarcastic, too. Thought you would've picked up on that as well. However, I was serious about the GTO being cheaper to buy than the Mustang. That's the LSx fanboy catch-all phrase. "With negotiating and rebates (and etc.), I can buy a more powerful, less common, better built (blah blah blah) car for LESS than the price of a Mustang GT."
  • cougarjunkiecougarjunkie Member Posts: 51
    "Sleeper" is just a euphemism for unattractive. The Mustang is a work of art. The GTO is just plain. I'd rather have a nice looking car that's kinda fast than an unattractive car that is super fast. And the GTO, if it IS faster than the GT (stock vs. stock), and I'm not sure that it is, is only quicker by a very small margin. For all the horsepower (400) it has and gas it sucks (11 mpg in the city, per Consumer Reports), the GTO should be much quicker than the GT.
  • eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    hi cougarjunker -
    GTO styling does seem to have some AMC-Pacer cues, but the new mustang is no work of art unless Vargas reincarnates and uses one as a backdrop.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    The Mustang looks like a classic muscle car. The GTO looks like a cheap Pontiac Sunfire. End of discussion.
  • eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    if we just make declarations, then that's not really a discussion, is it then, Kirbster!? hey, whatever. the whole point of this thread is to throw the ford&GM people together and let them go all mosh-pit on each other.
    maybe let's talk about the one and only mustang that can kick GTO donkey: GT500. But only if you pony up an extra $20k or so beyond GTO price, right?
  • mschmalmschmal Member Posts: 1,757
    Gee, didn't realize they still made those... never see any on the road.
  • vertical3vertical3 Member Posts: 43
    "So what did you do to your 300 hp Mustang to get that much more hp?"

    All ya gotta do is drop in a SC, reflash the computer, and away you go way ahead of a GTO.

    My car came with its own motor, you borrowed yours from your fiberglass cousin. Again drop in the same 4.6 or equiv hp variant and come talk.

    BTW.....if we didn't care about our cars, imagine how boring the forum would be....
  • sensaisensai Member Posts: 129
    All ya gotta do is drop in a SC, reflash the computer, and away you go way ahead of a GTO.

    You can do the same thing with the GTO - when it comes to modding it is all about how much money you want to spend and how fast you want to go.

    My car came with its own motor, you borrowed yours from your fiberglass cousin. Again drop in the same 4.6 or equiv hp variant and come talk.

    Not sure what point you are trying to make. For starters, the 4.6 is shared across many Ford cars/trucks, so technically it is borrowed too. And what exactly would be the point of handicapping GTOs with a smaller displacement (yet physically bigger and heavier) engine or one that made less power? Shouldn't you be clamoring for Ford to release a higher hp V8 in the GTs and not for GM to release less powerful engines in there cars...
  • schufflerbotschufflerbot Member Posts: 6
    precisely.

    i love mine for that simple fact. i cannot count the number of people who nearly cause an accident trying to get my attention so they can ask, "what kind of car is that?" (i have stripped all the badging off of mine)

    as i posted previously, i love mustangs. ive owned one, ive worked on several and i never blow one off as an easy kill until its in my rearview mirror. (dont put words in my mouth, ive been toasted by some mustangs that look like theyre about to fall apart and loved it)

    i purchased the GTO over the mustang because of the rarity, they styling and the power. i completely understand wanting to show off your power, as the mustang does, but for this time around i wanted something that not everyone could identify. i wanted a sleeper and no, the term 'sleeper' does not mean ugly - it means something that doesnt necessarily look like it will blow the doors off of a viper.

    i have modded my GTO with a few bolt ons ;) and have plans to further the process and arrive somewhere in the 550-575 rwhp range. plenty for me.

    at the 329 rwhp marker i had no problems putting 2 cars on stock 06 stang GT's.

    now i have 2 cars on them by the end of second gear... and i dont stop walking them until i decide to let off the gas.

    bottom line, i chose my car because it fit neatly into all the categories i was looking into. the mustang is a great car, i just didnt want to spend 50K+ for a GT500 when i could spend $28 for an 04 and with $2k in mods beat up a GT500 like it was an old lady.

    to each his own.
  • vertical3vertical3 Member Posts: 43
    Yeah, I wish FoMoCo would go ahead and commit to a full run of offering a 302. Supply and demand (along with the nostalgia of finally being able to afford a Shelby) keeps the prices where the dealers like it. But the run ends in 09 (and everybody who already owns one is hedging on a climb in value).

    Honestly with the big increase in traffic enforcement here in South Florida, I just like running thru the gears, get a push in the seat, and listening to the exhaust.

    Like I said before we'll both be allies once the Camaro and Challenger show up.
  • schufflerbotschufflerbot Member Posts: 6
    well said, vertical.

    and yes, we will have to join the same team when mopar takes center stage for a while.

    on a side note, i dont think the upgraded traffic/street racing enforcement is solely FL's to deal with. Were seeing it here in TX as well - more tickets, more cops and on saturday night you had better be careful if you have a 'loud' exhaust.
  • theatasigmatheatasigma Member Posts: 6
    Re: GT V. GTO [vertical3] by sensai
    Not sure what point you are trying to make. For starters, the 4.6 is shared across many Ford cars/trucks, so technically it is borrowed too. And what exactly would be the point of handicapping GTOs with a smaller displacement (yet physically bigger and heavier) engine or one that made less power? Shouldn't you be clamoring for Ford to release a higher hp V8 in the GTs and not for GM to release less powerful engines in there cars...


    While the 4.6 has been around since the early 90's, the configuration of 4.6 for the Mustang GT unique to it. Up until the 2006 year, only the GT used the 4.6L 3 Valve Engine configuration (The V8 Explorers now share it too, but it has less horsepower for the Explorers).

    The problem I have with the GTO is it is a cool car (prefer Fords myself) but when I look at the lineup I find them uninspired. Yeah it is nice to have a car that goes incredibly fast, but I need more than that to justify buying it. If I was to get a decent performance car from GM, I would most likely choose an Impala SS over a GTO. Now if someone was to give me a GTO I wouldn't turn it down... :P ;)

    TS
  • vertical3vertical3 Member Posts: 43
    Well the news out that the Challenger is available with up to 425 HP is irritating. Rumbles are GM is having issues wanting to bring out the Camaro within budget and still be a Pony/GTO/MoPar killer.

    Wouldn't be cool if the Pontiac R & D guys solicited existing GTO owners for input on body style, ergonomics, and power packages?

    Might get some ideas on a "retro" look that FoMoCo found so successful with the 05+ S197 platform that is today's Mustang.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    Wouldn't be cool if the Pontiac R & D guys solicited existing GTO owners for input on body style, ergonomics, and power packages?

    Kind of like Ford did with the current Mustang? They let Mustang owners/fans give a lot of input in the current iteration and it paid off I think we can all agree. ;)
  • jae5jae5 Member Posts: 1,206
    I don't mean to start anything (haven't posted in a long time but read this from time to time), and I can't believe I'm doing this, agreeing with Sensai but he is correct. The 4.6 was first intro'd in the 91 ~ 92 time frame in the CV/GM/Continental FWD and was the 2-valver. The Mustang got the motor in the 96 timeframe, with better intake/exhaust, but was the same motor. And the 4.6 4-valve DOHC motor for the Cobra (also the last Mach 1) came from the Mark VIII; believe it was called In-tech.

    The 3-valve didn't come out until the current-gen Mustang came out, but the trucks got it as well. All the press may have been on the Mustang but the 3-valve was also on the trucks.

    What I don't like about the 4.6L is that it seemed to be stuck in HP-Limbo for a long time and only now is making 300 (or 320 depending on who you talk too). And it seems that you have to do an SC or something heavy to it to make it scoot; you just can't do a cam and/or head swap to increase performance like on an LS-engine. It seemed from day 1 the LS-family was similar to the traditional SB where you can do simple (semi-simple) traditional bolt-ons and get good gains; you can't seem to do that to the 4.6L.

    Remember, the 4.6/5.4L is just like the LS-X engines, they're corporate, kind of like the 302/351W & the 350 workhorses.

    Happy hunting ;)
  • vertical3vertical3 Member Posts: 43
    One thing with the 4.6 is there's plenty of room to work work with. Adding a Vortech or Magnacharger SC can put you @ 500HP.

    Bring back the Boss 302.....
  • mschmalmschmal Member Posts: 1,757
    Definately something to keep in mind. The 4.6 may not have high output from the factory, but Ford is not exactly maxing this engine out either. A lot of potential growth is left for the owner to find.

    Keep in mind that the Mustang is a price leader.

    Mark.
  • jae5jae5 Member Posts: 1,206
    Oh I agree, but I just wish you didn't have to do the SC. I mean, beyond the TB, exhaust, what other simple or semi-simple bolt-ons can you do to the stock 4.6 to get some real gains (please, no NOx)? It just seems this sucker should be putting out more without the need to SC it. That's what has always bothered me about the mod motor. If there's more power on the table unleash it man!! And like the Poncho owners here have stated, they can just do the same thing, or do a semi-simple hot-cam or head swap and away they go.

    And I will admit you can get some crazy gains from the last-gen Cobra. Just doing a plug-n-play tune on the ECM gets some great gains; swap the pulley and you get another nice boost (no pun intended).

    Sorry for that Mustang-only side-track...
  • vertical3vertical3 Member Posts: 43
    I guess the simplest avenue next would be to change the gear ratio to a 3.73 or 4.10. Short of Ford going to a 32v variant of the 4.6, without a way of (in simple terms) forcing more air in, It's a big $$ investment. Don't forget the GTO had a Vette engine and powertrain dropped in. It would be interesting to see what Ford could do with a N/A 5.4 32v (like that used in the Navigator) Should be able to at least get 400 out of it....
  • mschmalmschmal Member Posts: 1,757
    Actually thats what they did for the Shelby GT500.

    4 valves apparently isn't the solution that everyone assumes it is.

    4 valvers loose some of their low end torque. You also have the added complexity of the DOHCs.

    What I find interesting is that Honda is able to fit enough loobs on one cam shaft to run all four valves in their four cylinders with out haveing to go DOHC.

    The SC upgrades IMHO are very affordable when you consider the potential gain. You are less then $5k and you can get a very nice Mustang GT for just around $30k. So for a total investment of $35,000 you can build a Corvette beater. At least in the str8s.

    Mark
  • mschmalmschmal Member Posts: 1,757
    One that that Ford is doing with the Mustang that Pontiac should have done with the GTO is to get the car onto the track.

    Mustang is doing very well in the racing classes both in the states and in Europe...This dispite a live axle.

    Track creed for this type of car has to mean something.

    Mark.
  • vertical3vertical3 Member Posts: 43
    Coming in 2010:

    The Boss is a forthcoming large-displacement V8 engine project at Ford Motor Company. The engine project was reportedly cancelled in 2005 as the company focused on its existing Triton V8 and V10, but was reportedly[1] revived in early 2006 by Mark Fields. The large engine will compete with DaimlerChrysler's new Hemi and General Motors' large Vortec engines.

    The Boss engine will reportedly displace 6.2 L (379 in³, 6208 cc) upon introduction, with the ability to exceed 7.0 L in future applications, and produce more than 425 hp (317 kW) and 425 ft·lbf (576 N·m). It has been rumored that a smaller 5.8 L (355 in³, 5814 cc) version will be developed for a special edition 2009 Ford Mustang and is expected to be the standard V8 engine for the 2010 or 2011 Ford Mustang. The Boss V8s will be built at Cleveland Engine in Cleveland, Ohio. The first application will be Ford's F-Series pickup trucks produced at Dearborn Truck. It has been rumored that the Boss will retain many of the Modular V8 design cues such as a deep skirt block with cross bolted main caps, oiling system design, and overhead camshaft valve train arrangement. The Boss' single most significant departure from the Modular V8 will be the significantly wider 4.53 in (115 mm) bore centerline. It has been rumored that the 6.2 L will employ a 4.015 in (102 mm) bore diameter and a 3.74 in (95 mm) stroke to achieve it's displacement while the 5.8 L version will retain the 6.2 L's bore diameter but employ a shorter 3.503 in (89 mm) stroke. The initial versions of the Boss will have two-valves-per-cylinder, two spark-plugs per cylinder and likely employ a form of cylinder or valve deactivation for increased fuel economy. Later high-performance versions will be equipped with DOHC, four-valves-per-cylinder and Gasoline direct injection (GDI). There are rumors of a 6.2 L, DOHC, four-valves-per-cylinder, twin-turbo, GDI version of the Boss already under development.

    Initial information on valve size, puts the intake valve at 2.10" and 1.65" exhaust [2]

    The engine was initially called the "Hurricane", but this was changed in mid 2006 to the storied Boss name[3] in the wake of Hurricane Katrina.

    We wait and see......
This discussion has been closed.