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Ford Mustang (2005) vs. 2005 Pontiac GTO

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Comments

  • stang22stang22 Member Posts: 36
    I know we are suppose to be talking about mustangs and gto's,so this will be my last follow up comment on the 300c srt-8!! First of all let me set you straight,you got the 1/4 mile time right,srt-8 wins,and oh by the way,it out-weighs your gto and is still faster,so it just goes to show you pound for pound the srt hemi is kicking your butt,be very thankful the srt-8 is not the same weight as the gto,if it was --man you would looooose big time-they got something hiding in that engine thats for sure!! Second-srt-8 looks 100 times better than the cavalier,grand am,I mean gto-sorry,I keep forgetting!! Thirdly-The srt-8 is a limited production car,and it is the only reason they are making 2000 of them so they don't flood the market and take away from the 300c which by the way has outsold gto's by the tens of thousands!! GTO is not limited to 2000 models,they just plain could not sell them because their plain ugly--looks nothing like a real gto---which were very hott cars!! Now back to mustang,You better enjoy your gto,because mustang is going to be around alot longer and looks 1000 times better than the gto!! Plus the latest news is GM has terminated the ZETA platform for rear-drive,which the new gto was counting on having,but no more,because GM is trying to cut costs,and the gto sales numbers are terrible,and are not selling that good, compared to the mustang,which has INCREASED PRODUCTION TO 200,000 FOR THE FIRST YEAR ONLY!!! Your gto will lucky to get half that number in several years of production,but you don't have to worry about that because they cancelled the Zeta rear -drive program,and thats not good for you guys!!! Either way I hope you enjoy what you got!! You'll see!! Sales figures tell all!!!! :) All GM had to do is to do a retro gto from the 60's,and I guarantee you,it would have been a grand slam!! But Lutz tried to do it the cheap,easy cost effective way,gambled and lost!! The public is way tooo smart for that,especially when us baby-boomers remember what the originals were and are,and always will be,and thats most muscle cars from back then!!!! That's why mustang is doing so well,because they did exactly that, they gave the public what they wanted,not what the greedy upper management thought they could get away with like lutz anticipated, He should have went to the public like Ford did,and then you would have had A Real GTO with incredbile styling also!! That's why their trying to fumble around with your current gto by adding this or that to it, to make it exceptible!! Its like trying to throw a life preserver on a sinking boat!! Need to redesign,so it stays afloat on its own,like the ones we use to remember!! They(GM),probably could have got away with it if they named it something else,but please not a GTO!! The name GTO is held to a much higher standard than that and what they tried to hand off to the public as their version--Big Mistake and their finding out the hard way!!! :lemon:
  • sputterguysputterguy Member Posts: 383
    Why did you drag the 300C into this forum? While it can be cross shopped, it is not in the same class as either Mustang or GTO. And why don't you compare it to the Mustang? The same points could be made. Better looking? That''s subjective. The 300C looks like a steroidal Mercedes to me. That's not something I aspire to. The 300C is faster than the GTO? Since many of you claim the Mustang is also faster, then the 300C vs Mustang should be a good shootout. Then you could claim similar performance for say, $15K less.

    You say the 300C is outselling the GTO and then turn around and say the 300C is limited production. You can't have it both ways.

    You say the 300C is luxurious. I don't know since I haven't checked it out. I can't get by those fender flares which look ridiculous to me. But considering the Mercedes/Chrysler combo I'm sure you are right. The 300C is a luxury car with muscle. The GTO, although I don't think you would agree, is upscale muscle. So where does that leave the Mustang? Economy muscle?

    Comparing the 300C to the CTS-V would be more valid.
  • ClairesClaires Member Posts: 1,222
    Please stick to the topic -- Pontiac GTO vs. Ford Mustang.

    Claire

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  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    You say the 300C is outselling the GTO and then turn around and say the 300C is limited production. You can't have it both ways.

    The 300C is outselling the GTO by leaps and bounds. The 300C SRT-8 is limited production, but it's outselling the GTO, too. It costs more, it's heavier, and it only has 25 more HP. But it's still coveted more than the GTO. That tells you something.

    The 300C is a luxury car with muscle. The GTO, ..., is upscale muscle.

    What's the difference?

    So where does that leave the Mustang? Economy muscle?

    Absolutely! :D And America wouldn't have it any other way! :shades: GTO sales are proof of that. :sick:
  • danmandanman Member Posts: 16
    I do NOT have a GTO, had a Mustang whcih was great, too many problems. Contemplating buying a GTO, but have not yet.

    The GM Zeta Rear drive program is alive down under in Austraila just not for the US, that kind of stunk.

    Certain people are complaining about this 2004-2005 not being a real GTO etc. Hate to tell you but the 1964 and 1974 were NOT real GTO's then either. 1964 was a rebadged Lemans and 1974 was a rebadged Ventura. Knowbody complains about the 1964 though. The 2005 is the most powerfull, fastest, best handling, best braking GTO ever MADE! I think that more then speaks for itself. Yeah it would have been nicer to have better styling, but it's not ugly. It looks like other Pontiacs, just like the 1964 and 1974 did!

    The 1973 and 1974 did not sell well at all either, only about 7,000 to 10,000 each. Oh well.

    Next years Mustang supposed to be fastest one every made too, the GT500.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    I agree....Ford has their own issues. But, I think they are moving in the right direction. They asked their customers what they wanted in the Mustang and then proceeded to provide it. It's almost like GM didn't care what their customers thought about what the "new" GTO should or shouldn't be.

    Focusing on trucks is something both GM and Ford did way too much of. I think everyone knew that a "spike" in gas prices would hit them like it has.

    Ford seems to be more willing to make the tough "cuts" where they are needed. The Jaguar X model is the latest to be cut.

    Ford has done more to leverage "good platforms" against the duds.

    Ford has another "hit" on their hands with the Escape Hybrid.

    While I wouldn't want to be in either GM's or Ford's shoes right now, if I had to choose between what model would or would not survive between the Mustang and GTO, I feel very comfortable where the Mustang is as opposed to where the GTO is.
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  • danmandanman Member Posts: 16
    Monaro and Holden are very good selling cars in Austrailia though. Too bad we couldn't have the Holden division here. El Camino's there, 4 door version of the GTO etc. What if it was a great hit? Obviously it wasn't. Look at the Mercury Marauder and Retro T-bird, same thing. Cancelled do to lack of sales! Mercury failed to market and promoto the Marauder as well. Almost like they wanted it to fail Like GM with the GTO. Pontiac has sold more vehicles this year then Buick has if that is of any consolatin.
  • danmandanman Member Posts: 16
    Gm did NOT create the GTO for us here in the states, they tried to save $$ and took their already existing Holden Monaro and imported it with some minor changes. Ford built the mustang from the ground up, which is probably what GM should have done with GTO. I don't think it's the failure the press is making it out to be, it's quite a nice/powerfull car. Too bad it didn't sell better.

    I thought the X Type was still carrying on with a new station wagon version that just came out? It is out as we speak. The X type was a Ford Contour platform in disguise anyway. Ford Contour, oops Jaguar. Jags sales are the toilet the last few yrs. I hope both Ford and GM can turn it around.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    danman...can't argue the point that Holden's do well in Australia. The U.S. is the toughest market in the world, though. What does will in one part of the world, will not neccessarily translate to sales here.

    Just look at diesel vehicles....so popular in Europe, yet such duds in the U.S.

    GM should have indeed made a ground up iteration of the GTO for this market. Such an icon deserved that type of effort. As GM always does, they tried to take the "easy" way out.....rebadge something else in their stables and foist it on the American public. That's a real shotgun approach with no real idea on how it will sell or what the public thinks. I call that GM arrogance from the days of "what's good for GM is good for America" type thinking.

    I do believe that Ford "gets it". You can see how they addressed the Mustang enthusiasts for input as to what the new Mustang should be. The public response was ovewhelmingly positive....to the point that young and old, past Mustang customer or not, the Mustang struck a chord with the public. I know more people who have bought this Mustang that wouldn't even have considered a Ford before. I was one of them. GM, on the other hand, brought the Monaro to the U.S. and said....."here's the new GTO, take it or leave it". Unfortunately, the U.S. market has given GM their decision.

    Never underestimate the amount of success to be enjoyed by asking the customer what they want and then giving it to them.
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  • danmandanman Member Posts: 16
    They didn't even advertise the car, ala Mercury Marauder. At least Ford learned from that and advertises the Mustang. Too bad they couldn't have brought the Holden division here, they have some other nice vehicles in their lineup including a 4 door version of the GTO, a El camino version, etc. Pretty ncie. They are limited on 18,000 per year BS. I am in the market for something aftermy fiasco with that 2005 Mustang. I am going going to buy GTO, really like it, despite what the press says, I went into the test drive think negative, but came away surprised, very nice driving car. I think my Mustang was sportier. but GTO feels like Luxury/sport. I think I am going to do it. For me the manual shifer feeling rubbery means nothing, I prefer automatics in my cars. Trunk was tiny, but then again I am not buying the car for the trunk. GTO feels like it will be more comfortable on a long trip too.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    Good luck with your GTO purchase.

    I do think it's a travesty that GM throws more money into SSR marketing than they do to the GTO. But, that may tell you how GM feels about the model and what the future holds for the GTO.
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  • realty_prorealty_pro Member Posts: 85
    for the 2007 Shelby Mustang. 5.4 litre V-8, 450 ponies....
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    My guess is the GT500 will have quite a bit more than 450 ponies. They are going to trump the Z06, which will have 500 HP.

    Also, don't be so certain there won't be some Bullitts and Machs coming along soon, either.

    There are lots of different ways to go with either the 4.6L or the 5.4L.

    Given that '05 Mustang GTs are all sold out and that the '06 models will be sold out, at least initially, Ford has lots of leeway in what they can do.

    For now, I'm very happy with my '05 GT. Until Ford releases the GT500, I'll wait and see what else they may come up with. I don't even know if I'd be interested in the GT500 considering how the regular GT sells for MSRP and above. Dealers will, no doubt, hold to MSRP and above on the GT500.

    I'd be kidding myself to think that I'd ever remotely use the performance of the GT500. Hell, I'm having a hard time finding ways to exploit the performance of the GT.

    I'll be taking the 'Stang on its first road trip this weekend to the KY DERBY. That'll be fun as the weather will be perfect and the drive will be beautiful through the horse farms.
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  • danmandanman Member Posts: 16
    Thanks, Another dealer had a leftover 2004 GTO for under $25k what a steal, but I would rather have scoops, 50 extra hp, bigger brakes, dual exhaust etc I am going to use one of my friends GM discounts Even the SSR isn't marketed/advertised that heavily either. Corvette sells very well for GM. It's their biggest profit maker other then their trucks/suv's.

    BTW saw a Tbird for more then $10k off MSRP, leftover 2004? Or 2005. New. Saw a leftover SSR truck for $10k off MSRP too. Good deals to be had.
  • stang22stang22 Member Posts: 36
    You need to re-read post,I said the 300c SRT-8 was limited production(that's the muscle version SRT-8), not the 300c!!! AND your right,they are two different kinds of cars,(gto vs 300c srt-8)so that is why I said I wasn't going to talk about that anymore ,and I spent the rest of the post back on track talking about the comparisons of the Mustang and the gto,which you didn't comment at all on!!! Lets move on from the Muscle of the 300C SRT-8 vs.gto comparison!!!! As far as the Mustang being faster,I have not said that,one car has 300 hp and the other has 400 hp----bad comparison!! If you can't get beyond the styling of the car,why talk about faster and such things!! Heck I know people that got 600-700 hp power cars in very ugly cars,so really the horsepower really doesn't matter ,unless that's all you looking for!!! Mustang wins hands down---200,000 orders can't be wrong!!!!!!! Styling always will win out with the horsepower. When you talk muscle cars and want to use their original names,man,you better make it look real good like the old ones,and get customers input,who remember those cars(us baby-boomers),because it will flop otherwise--that's what happened to the gto!!! The gto deserves much,much more than what they(gm) did to it!!!! Bottom line-- Mustang WINS!!! gto-unfortunately loses out!! Sales don't lie!!! Think RETRO-MUSCLE GTO---GET CUSTOMERS INPUT--NOW THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN A GREAT GTO!!! They would have sold just like the Mustangs!! But the styling hurt you guys,because GM didn't get with John Q Public and get their input,Like FORD DID,with the Mustang!!! I blame the greedy gm management,not you guys!!!!
    :lemon:
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    danman....I've seen SSR ads in every major mag I've picked up recently. I've not seen much in the way of GTO ads....anywhere.

    There have been plenty of duds in autodom recently.....

    --T-Bird (should have done a lot more suspension work on that one)
    --Marauder (needed more motor)
    --SSR (plenty of motor but was the answer to a question no one asked)
    --Caddy and Lincoln pick-ups (see SSR...can't remember their names)
    --Aztec (ugliest vehicle I think I've ever seen....why are they still making them?)

    That GTO in '05 guise should run you about $30.3K-30.5K for GMO/GMS....then take the $1,000 "hot button" cash off of those numbers. The '04 would be about $25K less the $1000 "hot button" cash.
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  • danmandanman Member Posts: 16
    The Aztec or a$$tec as some call it is being replaced by the Torrent. 2005 is the last yr for it. Buick Version of the Azteck was much better looking. Sometimes you can get great deals on those duds though.

    Caddy pickup was more successfull then the Lincoln which only lasted 1 yr. Lincoln is bringing back the pickup, looks too much like a F150 to me. Excursion is or was cancelled for dwindling sales, Suburban always outsold it.

    Thanks for the info on the GTO, going tonight to do the deal.
  • danmandanman Member Posts: 16
    Stang22, grahpicguy, I had a 2005 Mustang, IT was a Lemon. Bought back under the lemon law. The day I got it the check engine light came on, a bad omen. O2 sensor. Rattles, squeaks that couldn't be fixed. Very poor quality. I had the gas tank filling problem. Pretty embarassing to struggle filling the tank on your new car! It looked quite good on the flatbed, the car was at the dealer almost more then I had it. Obviously a bad one, I'm sure not all stangs are like that. I have owned ones previously. Also remember the Stang starts at $14k cheaper then the GTO so obviously they are going to sell more. GTO doesn't have a cheaper V6 model to sell, otherwise it wouldn't be a GTO without the V8.

    It's going to take more then just the new Mustang to turn Ford around. The 1964 GTO didn't have the looks either... If you look at the 1964 GTO, nothing special styling wise, just a big 2 door Lemans rebadged as a GTO with bigger, V8, badges, wheels etc. Some of those 1960's GTO's don't look that great styling wise either. Musclecar concept is to shove a Big V8 with lots of horsepower into a midszied 2 door body, rear drive, manual trans option etc.

    For those that say the GTO isn't a real GTO, got news for you, it's the most POWERFULL Gto ever made. Only to have 400hp. Most powerfull GTO of the 1960's/1970's only made 370hp stock and that was PRE SAE hp. Which really means about 300 instead of 370 by today's standards! Yes I am of the baby boomer generation and remember the 1960's car as a kid when they were new.

    This GTO resembles the other Pontiacs just like the 1964 did! from the front! Nothing wrong with that. I can tell from far away that this GTO is a Pontiac easily with the grille, etc.

    To each their own!

    My 2005 mustang was a :lemon: :lemon:
  • stang22stang22 Member Posts: 36
    Nice try,but it didn't work!!! Mustang sold 200,000 units first year because the looks are awesome,the power is great,the nostalgic look is there from the hay day of the 60's!!! Everyone loves it,well at least 200,000 people,and they all can't be wrong!!! New gto,can't claim any of that fame,except it has a 400 hp vette engine,an engine which is not even exclusive to just the gto!! Nice try but you lose again!!!good luck with your mondero though,you'll need it!!!!! :lemon: :lemon: :lemon:
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    Sorry to hear about your 'Stang. Someone here had their GTO bought back because of a lot of troubles with it. IIRC, I think it was Robert. No car is immune if you happen to get a bad one.

    Personally, I think they "heydey" of the GTO styling was the late 60s...not the mid 60s.
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  • stang22stang22 Member Posts: 36
    Graphicguy---You rule buddy!!! At least someone on this forum seems to understand successful marketing!!! I totally agree with your thinking!!! That's all I've been trying to say all along,FORD went to the people,got the Mustang they want,and Ford hit a grand slam!! Killer styling-true retro-muscle car with 60's look! Great performance from an engine designed for the mustang,and a unbeatable price!!!Over 200,000 orders first year alone!! Wait till shelby Mustang comes out!!!! gto on the other hand was a great car and great name brand,that gm tried to remake on their own thoughts, instead of the great folks that remembered the gto of the 60's and tried to hit a home run and Struck-out instead!!! Car won't last long on market,they didn't ask the people what they wanted,took pre-existing car and dropped a vette engine in it,badged it and hoped to strike gold like the 60's---but it didn't look like the 60's look gto-its really too bad,because I really like the way the gto looked back in the day,this so called new one just doesn't cut it,and sales reflect it!! Mustang wins again!!!!!And again!!! :P :P
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    stng22....why thank you! Having been a GM employee at one time (long time ago), been involved as a partial owner of a business, and more importantly, a car nut, it doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure this out. Now, I'm simplifying a very complex situation regarding all of GM, basic business "smarts" don't change.

    Something I never could understand, particularly about American car companies, why they don't use the tremendous amount of data that's available to them in the form of their millions of customers. Of course, you can say that about any business.

    In the case of the Mustang, Ford went out of their way to find out what the public wanted in the new Mustang. First and foremost, people wanted a modern iteration of what the Mustang stood for styling wise....that is a long hood and short rear. It was also clear that no one wanted to give up the traditional Mustang "look". After asking the owners what they favorite design cues were, they borrowed from the most classic ones and updated the look. That's been a success. Whether you want performance or just "the Mustang look", Ford had something everyone liked because they asked what the consuner wanted. Inside and out, the look is pure Mustang. Guaging the reactions wherever I drive mine, Ford got it right with the interior and the exterior.

    Then, aside from the good looks, performance is a legacy for the Mustang. They endowed it with a very good performing base model. They added the GT for the traditional performance buyer (more customers than Ford anticipated). Ford, with plain old good engineering, did a great job with the solid rear axle...to the point that IRS wasn't needed....neither was its weight or added complexity. Plus, the solid rear is sturdier (for those who would take their Mustang to the track) than an IRS set-up.

    One of the biggest complaints of the Fox based Mustang was it's lack of a solid feeling. Ford took a very solid Lincoln LS base platform, then highly modified it for Mustang use. The result was a very solid automobile. They followed up with great ergonomics, a shifter/clutch that feels like it learned some lessons from Mazda, and an engine that his big HP and big torque, then they made it sound great.

    Finally, Ford priced the Mustang where the vast majority of the public would find it to be worthwhile.

    Compare and contrast.....GM didn't ask anyone what they thought the GTO should or should not be. In typical GM arrogance, they foisted a rebadged Australian car on their customer base and tried to market it as the "new GTO". While no one can debate the merits of the LS2 engine, everything else seemed to be "less well thought out" for the American market. I don't know if it's a weight issue or a shift/clutch issue (probably a combination of many things) but performance should have been much better, instead of almost identical to the Mustang GT. It's also clear that hanging a Pontiac nose on an Australian car does not make a GTO. Adding to the "cobbled together" feeling is the fact that the General didn't even bother to think about little things like having brake lights on both the spoiler and the rear deck, gave me the feeling that this wasn't a GTO, but something GM rushed to market.

    That's not to say the GTO doesn't have its merits. From my test drives, I found it fast and comfortable (shifter, clutch, steering aside). Driving the GTO and the Mustang GT told me volumes about how Ford listened to their customers and GM just gave the GTO a "take it or leave it" short shrift. As most said, GM didn't do anything to help the cause by leaving the GTO out there to dangle when it came to marketing it, either.
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  • stang22stang22 Member Posts: 36
    graphicguy- your my hero man,finely someone who makes sense!!! Unfortunately gm under-estimated the power of the public with their suggestions and influences,that they could have contributed to the gto market,after all, who are the people---Hello--they are only the ones who can make or break your product--Hello again gm--anybody home!!! Anyhow,all companies have fallen,one time or another to this; because of communication, or should I say, lack of communication, they all have fallen to the Corporate GREED Factor,where you basically get by with what you have,a pre-existing model,and add a few badges from a known cool car of the past,and a engine from a different model,and WAHLA---instant gto--the public won't know-they'll fall for it,after all its a gto---Big mistake,public is alot smarter than that,and Ford is proof of that ,with what they have done with the 05 Mustang GT!!!! We all here can debate this to the cows come home,but the sales numbers don't lie--so all-in-all,WE can only hope that all corporate companies can learn from this valuable lesson! Mustang -you win!!! gto-we haven't given up on you,your name alone deserves another chance to get it right-we need to take you back and start over, and ask the public what they want in style,design,and performance and I guarentee you on that day 200,000 gto's will be sold in their fist year also!! Hang in their,we just need to voice our concerns to corporate America!!!Power to the People!!! :):)
  • sputterguysputterguy Member Posts: 383
    Guess you're talking to me. I made no comment on your comparisons between the Mustang and GTO because, even though you're new here, we have been hashing this out for probably six months. You have your opinion and I have mine. You have the car that you want and I have the car I want. End of story. The only thing new in your post was about the 300C. And that's what I commented on.

    And while I am at it, the GTO doesn't look like a cavalier. That's a tired old putdown. If you are going to insult the GTO, at least come up with something fresh. Besides, the GTO looks just like the Grand Prix. And that's according to none other than the gguy and a few others. Yep, it's just a generic looking Pontiac. I own both cars so as soon as I find someone with a scanner, I will post pictures of the GTO and Grand Prix side by side so you guys will be able to tell the difference.
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    Actually, I think gguy DID post some pictures of the GTO and a late 90's vintage Grand Prix. Yes, there are differences; however (in all honesty), I think they look a lot more alike than the current '05 Mustang looks like a '67-'68 Mustang.

    One thing for certain however; the whole style issue has been beat into the ground. You know, you could turn this whole 'style' issue to your favor by theorizing that GTO buyers are more interested in substance over style and Mustang buyers are more interested in style over substance. I don't necessarily subscribe to that theory, but it is apparent that some posters appear to be locked in on 'style' to the exclusion of virtually all else.
  • jontyreesjontyrees Member Posts: 160
    ...or maybe the thinking was "Hey, our Aussie division has this really fast, well built coupe that we could bring over here and sell a few of." "What's the development cost on that?" "Uh, approximately nothing" "Go ahead then"

    What's wrong with offering the public another fast car? Especially one that offers about the best $/hp ratio on the market. If all GM cars were as well put together as the GTO, they wouldn't be struggling with the crappy quality reputation they have.
  • skeezixskeezix Member Posts: 45
    People keep stating that Ford listened to its customers when they built the new Mustang. I agree with that. Did Ford listen to anybody when they came out with the Mercury Murader? Obviously not. Gm listened to their customers when they designed the new C6. Virtually all customer issues were addressed.

    One cannot make general statements based on only part of the story. Compare and contrast as you like but just choosing two examples to make a general statement about how a company listens to its customers is misleading. Post #460 sums up why the GTO is here; I suppose some here just wish it never came over. Well, that would leave the happy buyers of the GTO without. Remember, Hammen2 had a lemon GTO, but got another one and seems to be happy. What more could Pontiac ask of its customers?
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    "I suppose some here just wish it never came over"

    No, I don't think that's the real problem. I think the problem is that people had some fixed notion in their head of what a current "GTO" is and the Holden wasn't it. Maybe if they had just called it what it LOOKED like to the U.S. market (a really good looking Grand Prix Coupe), there wouldn't be this problem.

    Actually, to be honest, I don't know WHY there seems to be such animosity towards the GTO. I myself sometimes go on a little rant against the car but in truth it is more against some of the (previous) posters ranting against the Mustang for what seems (to me anyway) to be silly issues. So then I'd go off about some minor little thing on the GTO. None of that (on either side) was very constructive; just misc. grenades thrown from the opposing trenches. It gets old.

    They are both good cars. It's just that they will each appeal to a slightly different type of buyer and I think it's unfortunate when people seem to think that just because THEY don't like one, that anyone who does must be some kind of an idiot.
  • sputterguysputterguy Member Posts: 383
    Yeah, I saw them. I agree they look similar. But bare with me, I'm having fun with this. I'm planning on a picture with them facing each other. I've seen a picture like that before. I think it was the comparison with the CLK55. Anyway, I wouldn't have brought it up if it weren't for the cavalier comparison.

    Substance over style. That is very well put. Thank you.
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    No problem. Some of us prefer style over substance but just don't like admitting it. :blush:

    Of course, with a Mustang you would get style AND substance!! :P
  • stang22stang22 Member Posts: 36
    Cavalier,grand am,whatever you want to call it,---ITS NOT A REAL GTO LOOK,otherwise you wouldn't say it looks like whatever!!!My whole point is if you want to call it anything else,maybe a mondero gt,I would understand totally!! But not a gto,the name gto deserves more!!!!! I really like the name gto-that's why I want to see gm go to the public and get THE LOOK the name GTO deserves!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)
  • sputterguysputterguy Member Posts: 383
    I agree with that analysis. And I'm glad they did. It's just a shame they cheapened it a little, ie. the HVAC controls. There haven't been any problems but I don't think they did a bang up job switching from right hand drive to left hand. They could have taken a little more time and then given us some options like the LS1 or the LS2, hood scoops or no hood scoops. I don't think anyone would opt for the spoiler. A little quality goes a long way. Maybe the quality of the GTO will rub off on some other GM offerings.
  • sputterguysputterguy Member Posts: 383
    I agree. If it wasn't called a GTO there wouldn't be any discussion. I wouldn't mind it being called a Grand Prix. Heck, then I would have two Grand Prix's and I like them both. What they did to the Grand Prix when they finally upgraded it doesn't impress me at all. In fact, as I've said before I wish they would have put the LS1 or LS2 into the Grand Prix and reverse engineered it into RWD.

    The GTO and Mustang are good cars. It's good to have a little 'friendly' rivalry though, just to keep it interesting.
  • sputterguysputterguy Member Posts: 383
    Touche'
  • sputterguysputterguy Member Posts: 383
    But it is a real GTO. Like it or not. It says so right there on the side and rear: GTO. Deal with it.
  • stang22stang22 Member Posts: 36
    No really, your the one who has to deal with it,because you bought it,and I wish you many good years of service in it!!! To me,I have to much respect for the gto name,to have done what happened!! The design could have been sooo much more,but as long as your happy with it,that's all that counts!!!! peace!! :)
  • brushbanditbrushbandit Member Posts: 33
    Stang22, You go on and on about what the original GTO was and how GM should have copyed it, yet you don't understand yourself what the original GTO was. The original GTO (the first muscle car) was a rather mundane 2 door family car, the Tempest I believe, that they dropped a big powerful V-8 into. Essentially that's what the new GTO is. The GTO wasn't a pony car and the GTO didn't compete with the Mustang. The Camaro and Firebird were GM's pony cars. The GTO was the equivalent to the SS396 Chevelle, Super Bee, R/T, Roadrunner, ETC. All pretty large, mundane 2 door cars with high performance engines. If thats not what the new GTO is I don't know what is. With one exception, the new GTO is far from Mundane.
  • SylviaSylvia Member Posts: 1,636
    The discussion is about the 2005 versions of the Mustang and GTO, let's not keep heading into the past in this discussion.
  • stang22stang22 Member Posts: 36
    Maybe the comparisons should be between the new gto and the new charger srt-8 then,being that they are more inline of what you are saying,because both went about it the same way(the new ones) and are more in the same class..Actually,in one respect your right, the Mustang GT is a pony car and is in a class of its own,literally,because the other gm pony cars have fallen by the waste side--and Mustang keeps going and selling with Classic styling and performance!! Selling more NOW than ever,since the original,BECAUSE ITS STYLING IS BASED ON THE ORIGINAL!!!That's my whole point!! See,here's the thing,while some of the things you have stated are true,here's the problem,when you go and strike Gold THE VERY FIRST TIME, and create the most popular muscle cars of the past(whatever your favorite years of the 60's muscle car models you loved,and everybody has a favorite),especially us baby-boomers who remember them sooo well,and the muscle car Names and STYLES have been now established(through clubs and meets,and racing,etc.),whether it be gto.Mustangs,Cuda,Roadrunners,camaro,firebird,chargers,etc,and we ARE living in a time where Reto-Muscle is a Huge hit(among all generations because the NAME AND STYLE HAS BEEN ESTABLISHED FOR DECADES)--example--Mustang GT,its the cars we remembered when that Gold was struck the very FIRST time and the name is established as one of the coolest muscle car looks tried and trued over the decades.Now here is the payoff--You take the TRIED AND TRUED ESTABLISHED NAMES AND STYLES,that everybody loved in the day,and ask the public for their input of what their wants and desires are for a Brand New Retro Cool Muscle car of your favorite brand,that the company wants to bring back to life!! I AM TALKING A VERY HUGE SUCCESS WOULD TAKE PLACE IN EVERY RETRO-MUSCLE CAR THAT WAS CREATED THAT THE COMPANIES WOULD ASK THE PEOPLE FOR THEIR INPUT ON,because WE the public want what the Styling had that mad us Go Wild,when we first remembered them,when that gold was stuck and the name was built around that styling!!!! Unfortunately,the downfall of trying to Strike Gold LIKE the First Time,and the name has been already establlished around that Style and Performance of the ones WE LOVE MOST,it is and always will be almost impossible to do,especially if its a new style that doesn't resemble the ones we loved!!That's been proven time and time again,whether they were gto's,mustangs,camaros,whatever!! You'll sell some,but you won't have record sales!!! And that's what the new gto,charger will suffer from!! While, what they did with the MustangGT was a huge instant success across the board,because they asked the loyal fan base what they wanted in a new Mustang muscle car!!! Lesson over,SALES SPEAKS FOR ITSELF,because customers got what they requested,HERE'S THE IMPORTANT PART,BECAUSE THEY WERE ASKED FOR THEIR INPUT---GAME OVER---HUGE INSTANT SUCCESS!!! People who disagree(even though its your right to disagree),will understand when your sales numbers slip and the company stops making them again, THEN,MAYBE,you'll understand,but by that time its toooo late!!!!!! Its just sad,because I really like the gto name as well as many other muscle cars,and they will always meet their same fate,because of this really unfortunate mistake!! Successful Marketing 101---INCLUDE LOYAL CUSTOMER FAN BASE INPUT!!! :):)
  • sputterguysputterguy Member Posts: 383
    I am dealing with it. Whenever I sit in that comfortable leather interior. And then when I fire it up and feel that reassuring rumble. You betcha.
  • sputterguysputterguy Member Posts: 383
    You need to get something straight. The '05 Mustang isn't an instant success. It's a 41 year old car. It's at least the seventh generation. The '64 was an instant success. I know, I bought a '65. A GT 2+2, deluxe interior. Oh yeah. Anyway, the Mustang has a large and loyal following. So you really need to look at how many Mustangs were sold last year. Then if more were sold this year, it would be a success, if less were sold then I would say it wasn't such a success, and certainly not an instant success.
  • 442man442man Member Posts: 210
    Consumer Reports just tested the V6 Mustang Convertible against other Convertibles. Did ok.

    We found the V8 powered Mustang GT with a manual transmission to be FAST and FUN, but in V6 guise with an automatic transmission oru convertible isn't as Exciting. The engine is COARSE and NOISY. Handling is secure but borders on mundane. The interior feels CHEAP. Much of the interior is covered in thin, hard plastic that has a cheap feel and look. But then at the same time they say the chrome highlights looks good. More american car bias as usual from CR. They said the body is very rigid and good front seats ec Yet they praise the Toyota Solara Convertible and rank it above the Mustang, but say it's body quivers and shakes? Go figure? I would rather have the more rigid body.
  • ls6fanls6fan Member Posts: 2
    an '05 GTO last night and placed an order for a Cyclone Grey one
    on the spot. The thing kicks [non-permissible content removed] and has a very refined chassis
    to boot. I will be retiring a '99 Z28 that has 160k on it with next to
    no problems (p.s. pump just went - first problem). Incredibly solid
    and sound vehicle with an apropriate degree of subtlety with which
    I have been trashing everything that has been stupid enough to try to
    take me on over the last six years.

    Ordered the goat w/o the hood scoops, but added the 18" wheels.
    Can't wait to get my hands on it and spend the summer wringing it
    out on the roads of upstate NY.

    As for the mustang's appearance, I've seen a couple dozen on the
    roads and I'm bored already - looks too much like too many old
    rustbuckets. Give me the subtlety of the goat anyday, at least
    until they decide to market a Judge model.

    almost forgot... SCREAM SCREAM SCREAM SCREAM SCREAM!
    (isn't that what you're obligated to do around here?)
  • sputterguysputterguy Member Posts: 383
    Auto or manual? What did the wheels cost if you don't mind me asking?

    The only part of cancelling the zeta model that bothers me is there won't be a platform for the LS7. That would have been the logical choice and what better to call it than the....Judge. Oh well.

    But wait, someone is buying 28,000,000,000 shares of GM stock. Could there be light at the end of the tunnel?
  • ls6fanls6fan Member Posts: 2
    $450 upcharge
  • sensaisensai Member Posts: 129
    Speed TV is supposed to host some sort of event June 12th where the GTO and the GXP race a bunch of other cars. I have heard mentions of a 330, G35, and Mustang GT, although I cannot find anything confirmed. Can't wait to see the other cars get whipped :)
  • sputterguysputterguy Member Posts: 383
    Thanks. What a great deal.
  • sputterguysputterguy Member Posts: 383
    That's what I've been waiting for. A real race between these cars.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    '04 Mustang sales =~140,000 untis. 1/3 of those were of the V8 variety (or ~46,000).

    '05 Mustang sales = ~190,000 units. Over 1/3 of those will be of the GT variety (or ~63,000+). Those numbers would have been higher and were limited only by capacity to produce them.

    While an understatement, I'd say it's been a success.
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • 442man442man Member Posts: 210
    I just picked up a '05 Impulse Blue with the Bermuda Blue interior last week. 17" wheels, hood scoopes, 4 spd automatic. Nice car. It was either that or Black with Red interior. Cyclone Grey is nice too.
This discussion has been closed.