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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

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Comments

  • readerreaderreaderreader Member Posts: 253
    It looks just fine. Few automobiles are truly ugly anymore today.
    As a matter of fact, it'd be hard for me to name any truly ugly cars anymore there are fewer and fewer of them these days.

    That said, here are three interiors that I do not care for:

    Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

    Terrible!

    And this--
    Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

    And this:
    Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

    All three look terrible--although the top one is a little old. The updated version it really carries now is still bad.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    The Camry interior is not terrible. The Ridgeline is a truck, and not supposed to be pretty. But there is no excuse for the Malibu, except cost cutting.
  • ggesqggesq Member Posts: 701
    So your replacing "ugly" with "terrible"?? Good one.
  • ggesqggesq Member Posts: 701
    By the way- the bottom two are of trucks for those that don't recognize them
  • booyahcramerbooyahcramer Member Posts: 172
    The last thing Honda is doing is mimicing VW interiors. Also you're not gonna see anything like the Civic interior in the new Accord. What kind of nonsense is that?

    Yea - I love the two-tone interior color scheme. Looks as good in the GM as it does in the Infinitis. Honda should adopt it. Its beautiful.

    Add that color palette to typical aircraft quality fit and finish Honda interiors and they'll pull in even more buyers.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    By the way- the bottom two are of trucks for those that don't recognize them

    Oh, I just assumed it was a Camry (it's a Tundra interior). Not bad, but kind of delicate looking for a truck interior.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,601
    I just think that two tone interior in the Chevy is too trendy and will become outdated very quickly. I also don't like that shade of brown--again personal preference.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    Two tone on the dash is ok by me, but not on the seats. It's just too much IMO. Not crazy about that shade of brown either. A little lighter brown maybe. Others seem to like it though.
  • readerreaderreaderreader Member Posts: 253
    I have no clue why you find that offensive.
    Volkswagen/Audi is the benchmark for industry interiors.

    That's just the way it is.
    Does that make you feel inferior in any way?
    I sense you're bristling at this and I have no reason why.

    If one's self-worth is wrapped-up in the brand of car that one buy so much so, admitting that they take cues from another brand's cars makes one feel inferior, then one has very serious problems one should have addressed.

    That is simply the way the industry works, There's nothing else to it really.
    Some manufacturers are better than others at various things.
    Some are more consistent than others.
    The perfect car will never be made. :)
    So manufacturers benchmark one another at all levels. All of them do--every last one.

    Anyways, Honda is moving toward a less plebeian design language in the future--both inside and out, and Acura is leading the way for them so-to-speak. The Civic won't be out on a limb alone after this redesign.:

    Here is the Honda Accord Coupe Concept sketch from a while back--
    Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

    It should show up at NAIAS 2007.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,308
    honda prefers to take push their design envelope on the entry level models. an exception is the new MDX. lets see how that one works out.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,601
    That sketch looks a lot like the G-35 coupe my wife will be turning in in the next few days (end of lease). She just got a new Honda CR-V (lease)today.

    And people used to complain that the '06 Sonata copied the Accord tail lights! LOL.
  • mfletou1mfletou1 Member Posts: 508
    A lot of people are basing their feelings about the Camry on the last generation. Its worth repeating: I'm an 07 Camry owner who would NOT have purchased a pre-07 Camry.

    I don't mean to offend anybody that did, but I dislike the styling of those cars (too bland) and I really hated the interior.

    THIS is the Camry that I like (and it happens to be the same trim and color (Barcelona Red) as mine:
    image

    image

    image

    And since we are arguing about price, if you want a Camry V6, which is the fastest car in the midsize class, then its yours for $22,700, or $100 over invoice. If you want to go basic, you can get into a Camry for $18700 at the same dealer.

    Lets not pretend every Camry costs thousands more than every Fusion. If you want a Sonata Limited you're looking at $22+ right now as well.

    http://www.fitzmall.com/carfind/resultsb.asp?Search=NEW&ID=T024228&photo=TO07255- 2&loc=FTO&mall=CH&year=2007&mk_code=TO

    www.fitzmall.com is the place for real prices if you want GM, Toyota, Hyundai, Chrysler products, Subaru, Mitsu, etc.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Volkswagen/Audi is the benchmark for industry interiors.

    I think that's referring to Audi interior's superior fit and finish and not necessary meant that they have a better interior design.

    Personally I'll take Accord, Camry and Mazda6's interior over Passat's and IS350/250, TL, G35's interior over A4's.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    That sketch looks a lot like the G-35 coupe

    I think it looks very similar to the 06 TL rear. I find it hard to believe the license plate will be that low. It's only a sketch.
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    Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting
  • autoboy16autoboy16 Member Posts: 992
    Until i get a "It IS the new accord coupe" from the boss of honda,I will look at it as being the new Acura CL. For the CL, its a more natural evo/revo-lution.

    image

    image

    or even as the new prelude. It seems to be a transition for it also. It is just TOO sporty/good looking to be an accord. This picture puts me at un- accord.

    image

    ps:TOO MANY POSTS IN HERE!! A MINIMUM OF 40 POSTS DAILY MAKES IT DIFFICULT TO KEEP UP WITH THE POST I LEAVE A DAY BEFORE!! Not that too many posts is a bad thing ;)! Ok continue.

    ~*~*~*~HAPPY HOLIDAYS~*~*~*~
    -Cj
  • rhduke00rhduke00 Member Posts: 129
    Have any of you guys seen it?
    Have any of you checked it out?

    Test drove an XR two weeks ago. The one I test drove had a leather trimmed interior but not the Morocco Brown version. I did sit in one with the Morocco Brown leather and thought it way over the top. Anyway my impressions of the Aura XR are:

    Interior is nice (except the Morocco Brown).

    Exteriors of the 2007 Camry, 2007 Altima, 2006/7 Sonata, Accord, and Passat are more appealing.

    Power trains of the Camry V6, Altima V6, and Sonata V6 (I have not test driven an Accord V6) feel more responsive than the XRs 3.6L with the six speed automatic.

    The sticker price (which included some dealer BS add-ons) of the Aura that I test drove was over $27,000. Since it's a Saturn it's a no haggle price. For that much money, I'd rather have an Azera Limited with the Ultimate package, or Camry XLE V6.
  • w9cww9cw Member Posts: 888
    mfletou1 wrote: "If you want a Sonata Limited you're looking at $22+ right now as well."

    The $22K+ figure you quoted is not correct, at least at my Hyundai dealer it is not. I have a firm quote from them and it is as follows: $19,091, not including TTL here in Illinois. The total delivered price, including TTL, for a 2007 Sonata Limited is $20,574, a far cry from $22K+.

    Fitzmall is not even close to being price competitive with Pugi Hyundai/Mazda/VW.
  • readerreaderreaderreader Member Posts: 253
    Well, "good design" is subjective. to a large degree--without doubt.

    Build quality and "feel" (which is the issue here) are less so the further away you get from "perfection".
    So anybody making even a half-decent effort would benchmark.
    That's the only way you know if your own efforts really mean anything at all.

    If you're going to do that, then VW/Audi is usually your "standard"--just as how BMW often ends-up as the benchmark for handling (something that can also be subjective at the limit).
  • skibry1skibry1 Member Posts: 174
    I was excited...for awhile...about another famsedan with
    a clutch...alas I was wrong...Merry Christmas All
  • ggesqggesq Member Posts: 701
    Where are you getting info that Acura is resurrecting the CL?
  • mfletou1mfletou1 Member Posts: 508
    No, actually Fitzmall BEATS Pugi Hyundai

    Fitz has a "base" Limited for $20452.
    http://www.fitzmall.com/carfind/resultsb.asp?Search=NEW&ID=H234930&photo=HY07254- 62&loc=LFO&mall=GA&year=2007&mk_code=HY

    But if you want a sunroof and a 6 disc changer (like, for instance, and Accord EX), then you are looking at $22k, which is a little over $3k off MSRP:

    http://www.fitzmall.com/carfind/resultsb.asp?Search=NEW&ID=H210869&photo=HY07254- 62&loc=LFO&mall=GA&year=2007&mk_code=HY

    To me, if you are going to call a car the "limited" version, then it certainly should have those options. Once I had a car with a sunroof, I could never go back.
  • booyahcramerbooyahcramer Member Posts: 172
    Not sure what you're trying to say with this rambling mumbo jumbo, but implying that (somehow) VW/Audi sets some kind of standard for interior excellence is silly.....unless you're into the finer points of say...a German jazz band.
  • goodegggoodegg Member Posts: 905
    Once I had a car with a sunroof, I could never go back

    I agree - but the term 'sunroof' has been suplanted by 'moonroof', at least here in the Southeast, where we try to avoid the sun a bit more. Balmy nights with the moonroof open are a beautiful thing.

    Merry Christmas.
  • readerreaderreaderreader Member Posts: 253
    It is not necessary for you to be so unkind. I should think it unwise to assume that one knows all there is to know about cars.
    One wonders what your reaction would be if I told you that Lexus was a benchmark for quality in the industry.

    On second thought, perhaps it doesn't really matter. It is esoteric really.
  • ontopontop Member Posts: 279
    I should think it unwise to assume that one knows all there is to know about cars.

    After reviewing your previous posts....it seems like that, in fact, is what it appears YOU were doing.

    This benchmark thing is all in your mind. Perhaps there's a different term you should select and not sound so absolute.
  • autoboy16autoboy16 Member Posts: 992
    "Where are you getting info that Acura is resurrecting the CL?"

    I said by looks, the accord coupe concept looks to sporty/handsome to be the next american accord. But the shape of many lines reflect those of the 2003cl. Just look at the tail lamps, greenhouse (windows), and even around the rear bumper. If you look at those pictures back to back, you may or may not see it.

    Also the CL was just a dressed up accord v6 coupe with some extra horses. The same as the Tl but as a sedan. And with the RSX gone, acura could use some good looking reasonably priced sporty coupes and convertible.

    That coupe concept if made into just a hard top convertible and priced at $38k with acuras new 300hp 3.7l v6 and sh-awd, will put this car right there with BMW but for a few thousand less. Then theres the C70 and EOS (v6) that will both get blown away by those ideas in a comparison.

    -Cj :P Sorry for any confusion
    ~*~*~MERRY CHRISTMAS!!~*~*~
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    everyone! Had a great Xmas with the family. Hope all you did too! Even the Honda/Toyota crowd ;).
    Just a bit of news that I need to dispell about the 3.0 put in the Fusion/Milan. In other chat rooms I am constantly having to correct Honda/Toyota fans.. Yes, the 3.0 in the Fusion/Milan are using variable valve timing. This is part of what gives it 21 more HP over the 3.0 used in the Escape/Trib/Mariner. Not sure if this engine is used in the Freestyle. Anyhoo.. just a bit of news u can use..
    The Malibu looks great! Interior looks fantastic too!... Not really a huge fan of the Civic interior, I don't like the huge digital speedo.. VW/Audi have always had some of the best interiors, this is known throughout the auto world.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    The Malibu looks great! Interior looks fantastic too!...

    Finally! I do like the interior of the new Malibu - looks like they are finally taking enough of the good stuff from their Opel counterparts! Smart move Chevy... I really like the arcing curves in the new Malibu's interior.
  • neteng101neteng101 Member Posts: 176
    Finally! I do like the interior of the new Malibu - looks like they are finally taking enough of the good stuff from their Opel counterparts!

    I have to say I can't see it... the radio stack is plain ugly squarish. The basic steering wheel has those old style big clunky buttons (the wheel on the SS is how they should do buttons/controls on the wheel). Its not bad, but Detroit needs to get rid of those ugly squarish center radio/climate control stacks.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
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  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    Bet it looks good but feels like a piece of Tupperware inside, typical of Ford and GM.

    I really miss the days when they had nice velour and cloth instead of soulless and sterile plastic.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,601
    I wouldn't compare a base Camry to a Sonata Limited.

    Compare the base Camry to the base Sonata, the GLS 4 cyl.
  • jimmy81jimmy81 Member Posts: 170
    But the base Sonata is lame. Only the base Fusion is lamer. The Sonata V6 is the best comparison to the base Camry.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    The Sonata V6 is the best comparison to the base Camry.

    When comparing on prices, yeah, that's about right.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    So what is lame about the Fusion or Sonata? Yes, a Sonata V6 can usually be had for the price of a Camry 4 cylinder. Then there is the Accord 4 banger. Too bad the V6 cost so much. They should be discounting the V6 Accords since their pricing is steep to begin with, the look is getting old, and a new design is on the way. This to me equates to around $4K off, yet I doubt Honda dealers feel the same way ;) Looks wise, I am kinda liking the Milan, or even the Mazda6, though it should be changing soon. Sonata/Accords are OK, yet somewhat boring to the eye. The Camry looks interesting now, except for the odd nose on the poor thing. It needs a nose job - soon! Guess, if buying new, I would test out the Milan and Mazda6, as they seem about the most interesting to me at the moment. The Altima closet-outs may be good though. Used, I am still thinking of the CTS as a possible car, or perhaps another FWD Caddy of recent times.
    -Loren
  • gmontagewgmontagew Member Posts: 32
    The Canadian Automotive Journalists Assn. (www,caja.com) has posted the 2007 results. This award is as unbiased and objective an award as it gets!

    The 2007 category winners are:

    Best New Small Car (under $18,000): Winner: Honda FIT LX
    Best New Small Car (over $18,000): Winner: Volkswagen Rabbit 2.5
    Best New Family Car ($22,000 - $30,000): Winner: Toyota Camry LE
    Best New Family Car (over $30,000): Winner: Toyota Camry Hybrid
    Best New Luxury Car (under $50,000): Winner: Lexus ES 350
    Best New Prestige Car: Winner: Audi S8
    Best New Sports / Performance Car (under $50,000): Winner: Mazdaspeed3
    Best New Sports / Performance Car (over $50,000): Winner: BMW 3-Series Coupé
    Best New Convertible: Winner: Volkswagen EOS 2.0T
    Best New Pick-up Truck: Winner: Chevrolet Avalanche
    Best New SUV / CUV (under $35,000): Winner: Toyota RAV4 - V6 Sport
    Best New SUV / CUV ($35,000 - $60,000): Winner: Acura RDX Technology Package
    Best New SUV / CUV (over $60,000): Winner: Mercedes-Benz GL Class
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    whether the 3.0 uses VVT or not is not really the problem with the engine - it has to do with what it feel and sounds like at 4 grand or above. The Honda V6 is only SOHC and still is in a different neighborhood refinement wise, not to mention the Nissan VQ and the Toyota 2GR and even the Hyundai V6. And I still read reports of 'harshness' in the new 3.5, an engine that should apparently be better.
  • w9cww9cw Member Posts: 888
    The primary thing that differentiates the interior of the 2007 Sonata GLS and the 2007 Sonata Limited, other than some options not typically noted by the eye, is the leather. Exterior is different, primarily by the 17" alloys and tires, and the dual exhausts due to the Lambda V6. Otherwise, they are almost analogous on a equipment basis.

    Sure, the Sonata GLS interior pales compared to the Camry LE due to Hyundai's choice of the bath robe interior cloth material, but otherwise it is appropriate to compare the GLS to the LE.

    Camry LE has cloth interior, 4-cylinder engine, steel wheels/wheel covers, as does the Sonata GLS, so why would you want to compare the LE to the Limited? If you did choose to do that, the LE loses, especially on price, equipment, and amenities.

    Not only does the Camry need a new front end treatment, it also needs a new rear end. It looks like someone smashed it during the design stage.
  • booyahcramerbooyahcramer Member Posts: 172
    Yea - the Camry grill is rough-looking with the engorged tick on the front end. The Fusion razor blade treatment also looks goofy, and the Sonata's 1980s look is an unattractive. Stark contrasts to good lookers like the Aura, the Accord, and the Mazda 6.

    You gotta go up the ladder in stature to get to the real lookers like the TL, the G35, Lexus, the 335. Pay the $.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    "Stark contrasts to good lookers like the Aura, the Accord, and the Mazda 6."

    The only one that really stands out in these 3 is the Mazda 6. The Aura/Accord look very, very much alike. I have parked my Fusion side by side to a new Accord and when you do this the Fusion makes the Accord look plain frumpy... :shades:
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    "The only one that really stands out in these 3 is the Mazda 6. The Aura/Accord look very, very much alike. I have parked my Fusion side by side to a new Accord and when you do this the Fusion makes the Accord look plain frumpy"

    Styling is subjective as I'm sure you will agree. I'm not yet sure of the Aura, but in this class the Fusion is at the bottom of the list, just plain ugly. I happen to like the style of the Accord. The Camry hasn't grown on me.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Kind of a pity now isn't it. Best small car is an ugly little thing I would not want to take on any freeway here in USA. Best new small car is the olf Rabbit, which may be a deal cost wise for a car built in Germany. But really, the look is so far from new. Best family car needs a nose job, and possibly an old transmission to be a hit to me. Best new convertible is the VW EOS? Have you seen what they look like? Best SUV - I am sure someone cares, they all look alike to me, and are best used as a point a-b appliance travel machine. The best they can come up with for sport is the Mazdaspeed3? Nice little overpriced car, but with all the cars made, nothing is really out there in fun RWD smaller cars for a reasonable price. Choice of coupes is really bad. Yeah, the BMW3 would be nice, but there are us poor people ya know.

    For fun, I think perhaps in a smaller sedan the Mazda6 is the choice, with possibly the Milan being a fairly good ride. In coupes, I guess I would have to buy an older Mustang. I am not sold on the New Stang.
    In luxury, any used Cadillac would be fine. Enough prestige for me, and they are not too bad for reliability and number of dealerships. If I was throwing my money around, I doubt it would be for an Audi, though possibly the A4 as good little sport in snow county. I live on dry road country land.
    -Loren
  • jimmy81jimmy81 Member Posts: 170
    Wow - Canadian taste. What's that? Something cold influenced?

    What'd they do - put names in a hat and pulled out the winners?

    c'mon - a Chevy Avalanche?
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Actually, on exterior styling alone, out of these, I'd put the Mazda, Accord, and Aura all about the same, with the Fusion above them. The Mazda just looks "Japanese" and not particularly stylish in its shape. The Ford looks much better because it doesn't fall into mainstream rut with its basic shape.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    And since we are arguing about price, if you want a Camry V6, which is the fastest car in the midsize class, then its yours for $22,700, or $100 over invoice. If you want to go basic, you can get into a Camry for $18700 at the same dealer.

    Lets not pretend every Camry costs thousands more than every Fusion.

    Who's pretending? 2007 V-6 Fusion can be had for invoice minus $1000 rebate...which comes to undeer $19K. The base model invoice, less rebate, would be under $16K. So in both cases price is $2700+ lower. On top of this, discount financing is available, which would save most buyers another $1000+.
  • meateatermeateater Member Posts: 123
    The Ford looks much better because it doesn't fall into mainstream rut with its basic shape.

    What?

    They're all in the mainstream rut bro. You gotta go to the TL, a Banglecar, an RX8, a Subie etc. to get out of the stream.
  • meateatermeateater Member Posts: 123
    2007 V-6 Fusion can be had for invoice minus $1000 rebate...which comes to undeer $19K.

    Really? Even if somewhat stripped, that ain't bad. Doesn't the Fusion fall short in the safety arena tho, where all these others have a big advantage?
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    Most rebates are an either/or choice with the bought down interest rates? But, in any case - check the current values of 3-5 year old Camrys vs. the same for the Taurus (the Fusion is too new and there is no indication yet that it will or will not be any different that any other Ford product from a depreciation perspective) - the value difference approaches 5 grand on comparable 03 models - kind of makes the $2700.00 money well spent doesn't it? Less money up front will almost always also mean less money later. A logical reason to spend the extra money on what the market perceives as more desirable cars, a difference that, of course, does shrink with time.
  • ggesqggesq Member Posts: 701
    "The best they can come up with for sport is the Mazdaspeed3? Nice little overpriced car, but with all the cars made, nothing is really out there in fun RWD smaller cars for a reasonable price."

    Are you serious? For 22k you get a whole lot of performance. Go out and drive one- maybe you'll change your tune.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Well, it's a lot less "mainstream" looking than the Accord in my opinion, without resorting a bangle-butt. The only thing is that rear visibility wasn't too good relative to my Honda.
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