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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

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Comments

  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    It is wired and has the mounts for the rear speakers - just not installed. A really odd choice, when you think about it. Everything is there, right down to the connectors and mounting plates - just no speakers. No biggie, since Kenwoods are infinately better than stock.

    The alloys Honda uses on the Fit and Accord are identical in weight, down to the ounce. No savings here, though yes, the pizza tin factor is there. OTOH, you can get factory rims for about $120-$150 each if you really care to.

    As for tire size, trust me on this - smaller tires are cheaper to replace AND offer the same handling, since the car is so softly sprung and isn't 200+ HP. The stock wheels are perfectly fine. I found that the manual transmission more than made up for it anyways.

    Besides, they put smaller tires on old BMW M3s a decade or so ago - so you don't need huge tires on an Accord. And stock tires bite. Get some good 15 inchers with an agressive rating on them and run circles around the alloys.

    For under $17K, I personally would deal with the minor points and save a wad of money.

    As for resale value, the VP loses less than the top-end models by far, as there's nothing TO depreciate.

    But if I had the money to spend, I'd get myself a 3-4 year old luxury car instead. The Accord is nice, but it's no IS300. Not even close.
  • tamu2002tamu2002 Member Posts: 758
    As I posted before, I've had my VP manual for 4 months now, and am very satisfied with it. From the way it drives and brakes, I can't feel any inadequacy from the lack of rear anti sway bar, rear disks, and smaller tire size. If I test drive a VP and an SE side by side, I might be able to tell the difference. But I'm sure for me the difference aint worth the $2K. As for the speakers, since I, being the driver, am close to the two speakers, I can hear it plenty loud. That's not a big deal for me either. Ultimately, the savings (paid $16.3K) this model provides offsets all the minor imperfections, and I get the 32-34 mpg to boot :)
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    Of course you can hear it even with 2 speakers. You could hear it even of he car only had 1 single speaker, but 4 speakers give a fuller sound that's nice unless you only listen to news and talk radio. Speakers are cheap and the car is already wired for them, so there is no reason to live without rear speakers even on a VP.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    Tamu, thats a very valid point. I forget that other people aren't as concerned with performance and entertainment as I am and just want to go to work and back. I am reasonably sure that you will not even notice the difference in handling driven as a commuter car (except perhaps on a windy freeway). Also the front brakes to the majority of work stopping a car, and since you will probably have the brakes serviced as opposed to doing it yourself, the maintenance of drums becomes a non-issue. The tires and brakes limitations from a performance stand-point will only show up when you don't quite stop in time to avoid something. Driving defensively compensates for this a bit.
    The stereo...I would think I would probably spring the $150 for some good back speakers and install them...the wiring harness is probably already there.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    "LOADS CHEAPER. Same engine and suspension. And for a first car, saving money is what it's about, afterall. And it's WAY WAY better than a GM or Ford sedan of the same price"

    Maybe in your opinion, its a better car. But, with this so doggone stripped down, who wants it? or better yet, what kind of resale would you get for it? In my region this is the same as a Fusion S I4 manual. These can easily be had for $15,000. Advertised all over the paper by multiple dealerships. Not just one to choose from either, many colors.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    http://www.carsdirect.com/build/options?zipcode=91107&acode=USB70FOC201B0&restor- e=false

    Uh oh, you can get a Fusion SE for about $300 more and get a WHOLE lot more of car!
  • neteng101neteng101 Member Posts: 176
    Uh oh, you can get a Fusion SE for about $300 more and get a WHOLE lot more of car!

    Really? The Fusion SE doesn't even come with ABS at that price. And there's no way that 4 in the Fusion can match up to the Honda 4. :P

    As stripped as the VP is, it beats the more expensive Fusion. A few more "features" does not make a "more car". The Accord VP still has the engine, ABS standard, stuffs that make the car.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Even though I would never opt for an Accord VP and don't think it's the best value in the Accord lineup (not enough features), however it is the best option for someone whom wants Accord's class leading fit and finish as well as the 4 cylinder engine but is unwilling to pay the premium.

    To some, a Ford Fusion just simply is not a Honda Accord.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    Even though I would never opt for an Accord VP and don't think it's the best value in the Accord lineup (not enough features), however it is the best option for someone whom wants Accord's class leading fit and finish as well as the 4 cylinder engine but is unwilling to pay the premium.

    I was thinking this over, and since I would be a lot happier with a different suspension and a better sound system anyway, this may actually make some sense.
    Many cars are doing this now; the Impreza WRX, Civic DX, and Scions all come as "base" or "tuner" models to be modified and customized by the owner. Basically they cheap out all the things that are likely to be replaced anyway. I would rather have silver painted steel wheels than hub caps that scream cheap until I can get alloy wheels and rubber that can do more than protect the rim.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    The VP is not that stripped. They used to have a super stripped DX that didn't have cruise control and at one point, not even AC.
    The VP is at least livable as a commuter car with AC, power windows and locks, cruise, AMFM/CD radio, ABS and side curtain airbags. All the basics plus some things that are still options on competitors.
  • ontopontop Member Posts: 279
    I would rather have silver painted steel wheels than hub caps that scream cheap until I can get alloy wheels and rubber that can do more than protect the rim.

    How much do you think hot rims and tires cost? Most people don't have the $2000 cash to pay for that, but if financed into the price of the car, they can afford it. Honda alloys are great and the low pros on Accords are a reasonable selection, one that keeps you from having to replace tires every 20,000 miles.

    Plus who gives a hoot about hot wheels once you're over what..... 26 ?
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    OnTop,
    I'm glad you are satisfied with the performance of your Honda alloy wheels and MXV4/PilotSX tires. I'm sure for commuting purposes they are fine. The Honda has 65 series tires which are hardly low profile. They are as low profile as my mom's minivan tires, actually.
    Depending on where I was living, I would probably be willing to throw down the $850 to get lighter 17" alloys and ultra-high performance summer tires (more along the lines of what the V6s have). I would save the rim protectors on steel wheels for winter tires.
    I actually enjoy driving. I'm sorry that stoped for you at 26.
  • mfletou1mfletou1 Member Posts: 508
    I'm 26, and silly vanity wheels don't do it for me, either. I want a wheel that looks good and substantial.

    Now, for the record, no way I'd buy a VP. EX or bust for me personally, but I think the SE is the best value in the Accord line.
  • tamu2002tamu2002 Member Posts: 758
    You're right. The drum brakes are a lot harder to work on than the disks, but I'm not handy enough to touch disk brakes anyway. Changing the oil is about the only maintenance I can do.

    I thought about adding speakers too but never got about to do it. Plus, although the sound could definitely be better I'm not unhappy with it. I'm the kind of guy that pays more attention to the quality of music than the quality of the sound system ;)
  • tamu2002tamu2002 Member Posts: 758
    "But, with this so doggone stripped down, who wants it? "

    I wouldn't call the VP stripped down. Other than the rear antisway bar and two speakers, the car is as well equipped featurewise as the other trim (all the airbags, ABS, AC, cruise etc). The rear drum brakes don't sound as good on paper, but drive it and you'll know it stops plenty quickly.

    I drove the Fusion and liked it. But A fusion with the same safety features would cost more than the VP at the time. The drivetrain also felt a bit less refined. I also drove the 4-cy Malibu, and boy wasn't it noisy. The accord is 10 times more refined. Funny that we owned a 2002 V6 Malibu and loved it.
  • tamu2002tamu2002 Member Posts: 758
    Who'd want a used VP? People who shop for used cars are not gonna care about stuff like the lack of two more speakers. They shop for value more so than I did when I bought my VP. When they look at my 10 year old VP, speakers and rear antisway bar are the least of their concerns. The reliability of the car, drive train smoothness, great gas mileage and all those safety features are gonna trounce everything else.
  • lahirilahiri Member Posts: 394
    Yes, Taurus is dead. Contour is dead. Escort is dead. Focus and Fusion will be dead too.

    I am happy that Mustang lives. Though I don't drive one (in fact, never driven one), I love seeing them around.

    Who wants to-be-killed-soon cars?
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Why do you think Focus and Fusion will be dead? The next gen Focus will share the European platform (finally) and the Fusion gets a Hybrid later this year (08 MY) and a redesign for the 09 model year.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    The next gen Focus will share the European platform

    Where did you get this? What's your source?

    Rumor has it that the next gen Focus will use the same ole' platform and only recieve new sheet metals and interior. Oh and it's likely to have a 2-bar-grill instead of Fusion's 3-bar looks.

    If I am Ford I would just bring the European Focus and Mondeo here and call it a day. Obviously, I am not Ford.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Sorry, by next gen I meant 2009-2010, not the 08 refresh. That's still on the same platform AFAIK. If it's anything like the 08 Escape then it won't be much to celebrate. These models were done before the current leadership took over and reflect the old Ford philosophy of cost cutting and cosmetic changes. The person responsible for the 08 Escape was shown to the door. Mulally won't tolerate it.

    If Fields hasn't directly said that the Focus was moving to the Euro platform then it's certainly been hinted at very strongly through various comments on platform sharing between NA and Europe. Platform sharing between groups used to be voluntary - now it's required.

    Expect to see the same thing with the Mazda6/Fusion platform versus the Mondeo. They'll either pick one or the other or a new common platform for all 3.
  • lweisslweiss Member Posts: 342
    The Big 3 all desparately need a couple of sedan hits in the next several years. GM is showing some promise with the 2008 Malibu, Ford has to have something priced and comparable to the Civic/Corolla/Stanza, and Chrysler has to make the new Sebring fly. A tall order for all of them and their past history of mid priced, mid sized sedans is not promising. I think that the 2008 model year in particular will be happy times for people looking for mid priced 4 door sedans- lots of good choices, lots of price/features competition. No need to spend more than $25K for a good vehicle anymore (unless you are into useless features/status)
  • neteng101neteng101 Member Posts: 176
    Afraid that Mulally is a bit too little too late. Ford needs to start showing up in 2007 car shows with solid concepts that have production plans... they've got no answer for the small car B-segment that is slowly catching momentum right now, the Focus is miles behind now compared to Civics/Elantras, there is a new Accord and Malibu coming out in 2008 so even a redesigned Fusion in 2009 is too little too late and the list goes on and on and on.

    About the only thing with half a hope of selling is the 4-door Mustang that Ford is already saying it won't build. The new Silverado and Tundras are going to be eating into Ford truck sales. Ford doesn't have a competitive minivan. And the list goes on and on and on... Ford is going the way of the dino (as in saurus) pretty soon.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    The B car is on the way (employees saw it last month) as is a Euro platform based Focus that will be competetive. The old days of cost cutting and decontenting are gone but they won't be visible for another year or two. In the meantime the buyouts and plant closings plus the killing of the Taurus will keep the company afloat until they can get really new products introduced like the Interceptor and Lincoln MKR.

    You may not like the current Fusion but it's making money - something that you couldn't say about a Ford car until recently. They're adding a hybrid this fall. The 500 gets a much needed facelift and 3.5L engine. Add in the Edge/MKX and upcoming Fairlane and there's no reason to think the company can't survive for 3 more years.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    The SE Fusion has 4wheel disc brakes! :P
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    "Yes, Taurus is dead. Contour is dead. Escort is dead. Focus and Fusion will be dead too.

    I am happy that Mustang lives. Though I don't drive one (in fact, never driven one), I love seeing them around.

    Who wants to-be-killed-soon cars? "

    Once again, your typical Honda/Toyota lemming preaching Fords are no good.. If this person would have done thier homework they would have seen the Focus from Europe is coming to the U.S., the Fusion has AWD new this year, and a Hybrid coming in 2008/9, along with a whole new remake for 09. Along with Fusion/Milan sales climbing at a steady pace.. :shades:
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    "there is a new Accord and Malibu coming out in 2008 so even a redesigned Fusion in 2009 is too little too late and the list goes on and on and on"

    Tell me why the 08 Accord could be so advanced and the 09 Fusion cannot? Once again a bit of bias going on here?

    Remember the T100 from Toyota? This too was supposed to put GM/Ford/Dodge trucks out of business, remember?
    Your one of these folks that have been so brainwashed by the media that no-way, nohow will Ford/GM ever build anything as "good" as a Toyota or Honda. Too bad your so shortsighted.. ;)
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    Ford will survive and thrive. What people don't understand is Ford does more than just cars/trucks. Ford lost money only here in the North American market. In Europe/Asia they made money. It Still amazes me how Americans can so easily throw away an American Icon of Industry and history to this country. Toyota/Honda have done some very good Public Relations in making the American public think they are a U.S. company. Hate to tell ya folks. If it comes down to keeping U.S. folks employed or their own economy going guess who gets shown the door. I have seen it with a company called Fujitsu. The company had to "cut costs" the U.S. plant was making money, lower labor costs. Yet they shut the U.S. plant down. 500 Americans out of work.. They do the work in Japan now. :surprise:
  • lweisslweiss Member Posts: 342
    I have a hunch (no proof) that more "American" companies outsourced jobs overseas than any "foreign" companies did. Some years ago (maybe in the 1990s) I toured the Ford Assembly plant at River Rouge (Dearborn, Michigan) where they were making Mustangs (great tour- especially for car buffs like us!)- but do you know how many of the parts bins had "made in Japan, made in Germany" on them- lots! And probably more so now. Outsourcing is not limited to non-US owned companies.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    Toyota/Honda have done some very good Public Relations in making the American public think they are a U.S. company. Hate to tell ya folks. If it comes down to keeping U.S. folks employed or their own economy going guess who gets shown the door.

    Oh, you mean like when Ford lays off American workers, while they build the Fusion in Mexico. Ford has already shown how much they care about the "American workers".
  • ontopontop Member Posts: 279
    So - lets all buy a car we feel is an inferior choice just so, maybe, some American will keep his job.

    When someone does this for me, to keep my livelihood as a loan broker going, I'll eat a Ford.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    OnTop...don't sweat it...you get to vote with your dollars for whoever/whatever you want. Since we know the driving experience doesn't do much for you either way, nor sound quality, I would think there are a million cars you can choose from.
    I don't think anyone makes an inferior choice, just some cars meet peoples needs better than others. Beleive me, I think I speak for every free man, woman and child in the US when I say we are glad you have a vehicle you like.
  • lonewaldenlonewalden Member Posts: 26
    True Ford (an other domestics) are opening some factories in Mexico and laying off thousands of employees. Its a sad fact of decades of missmanagement. It is also true that the Japanese imports are opening factories here in the US, thus providing jobs for americans. However, the simple fact remains that GM/Ford/DC employ far more americans than all of the imports combined. When this changes Ill believe you when you say the Japanese imports are a US company, until that time I just laugh when I see comments like this.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    So when you go out car shopping, do you look at the "American Content" labels? To be sure you are buying a truly "American" car, it will take more than just picking one from GM/Ford/DC. Did you know an Avalon has more "American" content than the Classic PT Cruiser? If you think people are going to choose a car based on how American it is, you're mistaken. You can go around comparing American Content labels, and settle for what ever has the highest American content. I will buy the best car I can get, for the price I'm willing to pay.
  • neteng101neteng101 Member Posts: 176
    Tell me why the 08 Accord could be so advanced and the 09 Fusion cannot? Once again a bit of bias going on here?

    The Fusion is getting a facelift in '09 and not a full model change right? The '08 Accord will be a full model change and the older than Fusion current Accord already beats the current Fusion in just about every comparison test out there... you call that bias?

    Don't count of Ford to make big bold changes to the Fusion, they don't have the dollars to go crazy into R&D right now and remake the platform. It will be evolution, not revolution.

    Honda has SH-AWD that it could bring into the Honda lineup if it wanted or keep it to the Acura lineup... far more advanced than any Ford AWD technology to be had today.

    And I think Chevy and Chrysler are doing just - not always great, but they have something to offer. Its Ford that is in major trouble. And even the Mustang won't save them... Challengers and Camaros will be out... and those are going to be sweet cars. Chevy keeps winning Nascar races and Toyota's headed into Nascar now too.

    That Ford is now turning to the Euro Focus for salvation is again indication they cannot produce something new anymore. It will be steal, beg, borrow, etc... same old cost cutting in different ways... not built from ground up brand new all American designed cars.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    That Ford is now turning to the Euro Focus for salvation is again indication they cannot produce something new anymore. It will be steal, beg, borrow, etc... same old cost cutting in different ways... not built from ground up brand new all American designed cars.

    Ford North America designed and engineered the F150 and Mustang so they're certainly capable. Producing something totally new just so they can say it was done in the U.S. when platforms already exist elsewhere in the company is the most ridiculous thing any company could do. They might as well just throw money out the window.

    Honda and Toyota use global platforms and they're praised. Ford does it and they get slammed. Please don't tell me there's no bias here.
  • lonewaldenlonewalden Member Posts: 26
    Im in no way advocating a buy american only idea. I to shop around for the best car at the best price. I currently own a Ford Focus and a Nissan Quest. Im just trying to correct the notion that the Japanese imports are more American than GM/Ford/DC because Toyota built X amount of factories in the US while the domestics layed off nearly 100,000 workers and built factories in Mexico. I agree, its crappy of Ford to send those jobs out of the US, but its not because they dont care about american workers. Its because it has become a matter of survival. To make a profit and escape the UAW they have to. The other choice is to go bankrupt and really put some american workers out of a job.

    True there are some import vehicles (Avalon) with more "American" content than the big 3 (PT cruiser). However, did you know that in 2005 GM/Ford/DC had a domestic content of 76% in its vehicles compared to 48% domestic content for Japanese vehicles? I got those facts from here http://levelfieldinstitute.org/domestic.htm

    Speaking of domestic content. I think GM may have a winner on its hands with the 08 Malibu. Of course thats a very initial belief. Hopefully the real thing will be as good as they make it look in the spy photos.
  • neteng101neteng101 Member Posts: 176
    Ford North America designed and engineered the F150 and Mustang so they're certainly capable.

    And despite all their excuses to try and justify it, everyone knows they skimped on the Mustang with that live rear axle setup. Plus they spend all their $$$ on a truck and a lower volume pony car... instead of developing multi-use platforms that generate high volume sales. Chevy and Toyota are going to eat into their truck sales and they still lack a super platform for a car. Nissan did it right with the versatile FM platform.

    Nothing wrong with using global platforms, but platforms have to be revised too. Just turning to the Euro Focus means the platform will not be new. And products like the Accord and Camry are engineered with sales to the US market in mind as well as being global... the Euro Focus was not developed as a global platform from the get go with the US market being part of the consideration. There's no bias - just a lot of blinded Ford fanatics who can't see how doomed the company is right now.

    Ford is a global company that never acted like it for so long. They are just starting to do it now... its a little bit late and they are going to pay the price dearly for it. The world has moved on and left them behind.
  • jimmy81jimmy81 Member Posts: 170
    Honda and Toyota use global platforms and they're praised. Ford does it and they get slammed. Please don't tell me there's no bias here.

    I checked out a Fusion last year and chuckled at Ford's attempt to take on the CamCord. Most people don't take Ford seriously in the car market. They can't truly compete with Toyota cars, globally or locally.

    They should stick to trucks.
  • driverdmdriverdm Member Posts: 505
    "I checked out a Fusion last year and chuckled at Ford's attempt to take on the CamCord. They should stick to trucks."

    I'd actually take a Fusion over an Accord. I also believe that over 100,000 people made that choice over the last twelve months. THey are neither incompetant nor stupid, they just saw attributes and qualities the Fusion had that they liked, that the Honda/Toyota did not.

    I actually think Ford is doing right by the Fusion. They came out with the car last year. This year they added a Sport package to the base model, and an AWD option at the top end that no one has to date. It is unfair to say "oh, well so and so will get it soon". If they ain't got it, they ain't got it. Everybody will come out with a new feature down the road and be mimiced, it's called business. Next year the 3.5 will debut and incrementally sales will increase.

    Success breeds success. The more people that buy and like a car, the more word of mouth given. Word of mouth, any marketing firm, class, or drunkem professor will tell you is still the most prosuasive form of marketing. The Fusion seems to be getting positive word of mouth, given the high reliability, low cost of ownership, and constant media praise. I think the design is aging well as well. The New Camry came out, and Fusion sales continued to increase. The new Malibu won'y make that much a dent. It looks like an Impala and the Impala isn't killing Fusion sales. They don't need a major redo in 2009, just address the most pertinent customer complaints.

    You chuckle at the Fusion. I bet the people with Camry's that had tranmission trouble were chuckling just the same.
  • driverdmdriverdm Member Posts: 505
    "there is a new Accord and Malibu coming out in 2008 so even a redesigned Fusion in 2009 is too little too late and the list goes on and on and on. "

    So what? There was a new Sebring and a New Camry aka The Biggest Bull with the Longest horns and sales still rose for the Fusion. The Malibu will go through the same criticisms as the Fusion and it looks too close to the Impala which means its styling will age fast. The Accord may be a threat, but wouldn't the new Camry have been the biggest threat and sales still increased. You guys remind me of the Irish nobles in the movie Braveheart where even after victory, they still found ways not to support Wallace.

    "The new Silverado and Tundras are going to be eating into Ford truck sales."
    That has happened before. The thing about GM is those trucks are new and they won't want to incentivice them. Remember when Ford came out with the new F-150, GM put big incentives on the Silverado and the F-150 still had the BEST YEAR OF ANY CAR AT ANY POINT IN HISTORY. Ford has an advantage cause they have room to discount the truck, a new one is coming in 2008, it only has a year left anyway. And we'll see if truck loyalists take to a Tundra. Remember the Nissan Titan won review after review and then won deadlast in sales.

    "Ford doesn't have a competitive minivan."
    Niether does GM and that market is decreasing just like the SUV market. Nissan doesn't ahve a competitive one either (look at sales before you say it). So tell me what is your point.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,147
    The person buying needs to look at the whole concept, where the car started, where the parts come from in reality, where the money goes in the end.

    In this area Toyo is trying very hard to now change their image to an American company. They have used radio commercials. I saw a billboard but can't recall the silly link they tried to use.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    to talk about the cars, not the manufacturers here in this sedans comparison discussion, okay?

    And let's also try to avoid the personal sniping. We can present our thoughts and opinions without being derisive towards others.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    I bet the people with Camry's that had tranmission trouble were chuckling just the same.

    Yeah, like the first 200 Camry V6 owners...
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Minivan is not the subject of this board but since someone brought it up, here are my thoughts...Yes, the minivan market is shrinking but why can Honda be successful but others can't? Also, why's that Hyundai/Kia trying so hard to dethrone the Odessy? By the way, Dodge/Chrysler is still in the fight trying to maintain their number one selling minivan title with a brand new Town and Country/Caravan. If the market is so dead like you said they might as well just pack it up and leave like GM and Ford did. The truth is that Ford and GM are incompetence in this area, it is ridiculous for us customers trying to make excuse for them to cover their own failure.

    Be honest, I don't think Malibu looks anything like the Impala. If one must, I think there are only 2 things look the same: the 2-part grille and bow tie emblems. The exterior reminds me of Acura TL, which is a very good thing for GM and the interior is tons better than Impala's.

    How can Fusion's sales not increase, since it's so new? The question to ask here is: has the sales number reach Ford's expectation? I don't have the answer for that but if I have to take a guess I would say NO. The ideal situation for Ford is to have Fusion's sales increase and both Accord and Camry's to decrease. That means the Fusion has taken the market share away from the class leaders. However, as we all know, that didn't happen.

    Same method applies to the truck sales as well. We'll just have to wait and see if F-150's sales number decrease not not due to the new Silverado and Tundra hitting the show room floors. If it does, oh boy, Ford is in big trouble.
  • neteng101neteng101 Member Posts: 176
    ...and an AWD option at the top end that no one has to date.

    An AWD option doesn't make much sense for a FWD sedan platform, yet Ford offers this on both the Fusion and 500. It just adds extra weight, decreases fuel mileage/performance and increases the cost for most buyers.

    That is why you have no AWD options for the Accord, Camry, Altima, Maxima... Lexus has no AWD GS350, but the IS and GS (both RWD platforms) offer AWD. Same thing with Infiniti with the G35x/M35x (again RWD platforms).

    I would rather see more LSD offerings on FWD sedans in the coming years.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Here we go again - if Honda/Toyota don't make it then you must not need it.

    It only adds 150 lbs and you only lose 1 mpg. If you read the reviews of the AWD Fusion you'll see that it greatly improves handling in slippery conditions. The Ford system actually predicts the need to shift torque to the rear before the wheels start to spin.

    Why should buyers be forced into more expensive cars or SUVs just because they want AWD?
  • driverdmdriverdm Member Posts: 505
    Ummm... there was an article on autoweek not too long ago, mentioning that the demand for AWD has increased sharpely, especially for the likes of the Ford 500 and other AWD offerings. I could get the link to the exact article but I don't think we are supposed to do that. Anyhow, the article has solid numbers to back up its statements. We may view it how we like, but people are buying AWD vehicles. Just like navigation. We can think it is useless but people still by vehicles with it anyway.
  • driverdmdriverdm Member Posts: 505
    Be honest, I don't think Malibu looks anything like the Impala.
    It has to. Chevy is pushing brand DNA. The Cobalt, the Malibu, and the Impala all have a family resemblance but in my opinion the front of the Malibu is too close to the Impala's design.

    The question to ask here is: has the sales number reach Ford's expectation? I don't have the answer for that but if I have to take a guess I would say NO. The ideal situation for Ford is to have Fusion's sales increase and both Accord and Camry's to decrease. That means the Fusion has taken the market share away from the class leaders. However, as we all know, that didn't happen.

    Two things. Ford has already gone on record with Fusion sales exceeding initial expectations. Secondly, from a business point of view... you would most want the rate of increase in Camcord sales to decrease in a market where the number of buyers are increasing every year. To want the number of sales to decrease would be like hoping a three foot horse wins the derby. That is what you would want the most if it were a finite population of buyers. Also, with a growing consumer market, I may not care about Camcord sales as long as I am selling my product well. If I sell 300,000 units and Camcord sales increase significantly, if I am making a boat load off of the 300,000, it is all good baby, it is all good. Going after market share instead of profitability has led many companies astray only to find that though market share increased, the other guy is making more money. That's not good. If I were Ford, I'd be concerned about how many units I am selling first. Everything else follows after that.
  • neteng101neteng101 Member Posts: 176
    Here we go again - if Honda/Toyota don't make it then you must not need it.

    You forgot Nissan (Altima/Maxima), GM (Malibu), Chrysler (Sebring). If you add up all the entire midsize FWD platform sedan mainstream market, there's only a select few people that are buying AWD vehicles. Most (95%+) of the buyers do not need AWD... the sales numbers of Camcords alone are proof enough. Add in Sebrings, Altimas, Maximas, Malibus, and the Fusion/500 shows once again Ford doesn't quite get it.

    An AWD Mustang would be a good offering for snow belt drivers but they don't offer it. Seen many Mustangs fishtailing like mad in snow that FWDs have zero problems with.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    You can link articles here - no problem with that. :)
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