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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread
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Comments
The whole point here is that you cannot touch a like optioned Camry/Accord for less than $2-4,000 dollars when comparing a Fusion/Milan/Sonata/G6/Optima/Altima/Mazda-6. The question is - Is the extra $2,000 - $4,000 premium you will pay for an Accord/Camry worth it to you? and why?
Logical to me though, as the engine tuners have more torque to work with overall, they can afford to have higher torque peaks than the 4-cylinder's can, because they have more torque overall.
High MPG engines with tall gears and that develop all of their power at high RPMs are unfortunately all too common - and really nasty to drive in stop and go traffic/in a typical city.
First of all, the Accord was worth it to me, but it was not $4,000 more than a Fusion. More like $1,500 at the time judging by these forums' "prices paid" sections.
Here are a few reasons why I went for the Accord specifically over the Fusion/Milan twins (since that is a hot topic).
1.) Interior design. The Accord has better ergonomics with less "eyes-off-the-road time" for me. It also has an interior design that, despite being 5 years old now, still looks more contemporary than the much newer Fusion (and other competitors as well such as Sonata). The Fusion had many things that looked straight from Ford's workhorse F-150 with rectangular stereo and climate control layouts, etc..., where Honda's Accord interior looks custom designed for that vehicle only.
2.) Fuel economy - The Fusion had lower economy in the 4-cylinder versions, something I was interested in. The difference wasn't large, but something to consider if you take highway trips.
3.) Engine sound/refinement - the Accord is a sewing machine in comparison to the Fusion. Some people like the more growly sound, and that's good for them, since they have a car that makes it. I prefer a smoother engine; and the Honda I-4 is smoother than some competitor's V6 engines.
4.) Honda has shown many times that it makes good products. More importantly, they stand behind them when they fail, issuing recalls, extended warranties, and even doing goodwill repairs when the warranty has expired.
SUMMARY
To me, the interior alone told me I would be happier in an Accord over a Fusion, because I like the ergonomics, materials quality, and importantly, the tactile quality that comes in Honda interiors. Everything moves very precisely; something that the two Ford's I have been in, simply didn't do.
Drive the cars yourselves, and make your decision. I made mine, but it doesn't make it the right decision for you necessarily.
Sonata, definitely, is a very good alternative and a good price difference to boot (I am not too sure about what rebates Hyundai is running these days, but some time back you could buy a loaded V6 Sonata near 18-19k, which is way cheaper than anything comparable). This is not to say the Fusion is not a good alretnative, however I just don't see the price difference of 2-4k between Fusion/Accord
Road rage is not good - you're gonna get killed and kill someone else in the process. Drive safe... remember, your Fusion (because its an early model) only has a 4-star safety rating vs. the 5-star you might encounter in captain's car.
Personally, I think my Accord is worth every extra penny. I bought an Accord in 1991, and for 12 years and 140k miles the car was great. From the way it held together, the way the engine performed, the very few repairs, the way it drove, and what I sold it for. This experience made me a loyal customer.
These other cars did not exist in 91, and even if they did, I doubt I would have been as impressed with them. The Accord has had the same name all this time for a reason. Because it is one of very few cars out there with a stellar reputation for quality and reliability. You can honestly say " I'm going to buy a new Accord when this one is 10 years old", and actually know there will be a car named the Accord ten years from now. Can you say that about your car?
This is from post 8526 - and is what matters - full throttle acceleration, that 45-65 pass or whatever. The idle and cruise noise is, of course, close but the above is indicative of what happens when you ask for something out of that DT. And before you think that this doesn't mean much, do some research on the decibel scale (which is logarithmic). 77 dba is a whole lot louder than 74 or 75, but I guess this has already be 'proven'.
And if you do happen to see me on the road, the only part you may get any kind of look at is my tailpipes!
Honda and Toyota charge a lot for their cars and yet, because they split their lineup into luxury and commuter lines(no place in the world do they do this other than the U.S.), there's a real chasm developing.
Lexus is nice, but toyotas are beginning to feel seriously bare-bones and cheap lately. And Honda - they charge a fortune for an Accord V6 that's not even as good as the Camry V6.
Paying 4K or more for a commuter-box isn't smart, IMO. It's not like you are splurging to buy a BMW 3 series or sometihng - it's still a crummy plain vanilla sedan.
Very well said - and true
That's your opinion. I don't agree.
Paying 4K or more for a commuter-box isn't smart, IMO. It's not like you are splurging to buy a BMW 3 series or sometihng - it's still a crummy plain vanilla sedan.
That's your opinion too. I think it (EX V6 Accord) is the best car you can get for $25k. You buy what you like, and I'll buy what I like.
You posted it yourself $25K for a V6 Accord EX.. In my region you cannot touch a V6 Accord Ex for anything less. I paid $23,000 for my SEL V6 Fusion, like optioned. Go to the Milan vs Camry Forum and scroll through. You will find a guy who admits he paid upwards of $5,000 more for a Camry than a like optioned Milan.. :surprise:
I have yet to price the new 07 Altima. But, I would be very surprised if Nissan was asking the same price as a like optioned Accord/Camry. Nissan as always underpriced the big dogs. And remember, because you pay more doesn't mean you get more...
From my experience over the past 15 years, the Fusion is not worth $23k. No reputation, no history of quality, nothing to indicate the Fusion is worth that much.
I haven't been following the discussions so fill me in if I missed anything but the other poster didn't say anything about how much the car is worth (at least the statement you quoted), just how much he paid and how much you paid.
The Coupe is really a good looking car. If we are talking style.
-Loren
Toyota is cash to customer; Honda, cash to dealer. I used a Dayton area zip code. In this area I've seen an increase in advertising indicating they're pushing more than they've had to do.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I would have considered the Fusion if I could find it for at least $5,000 less than a comparably equipped Accord. Even then, I'd probably have to drive the thing to its death because regardless of what the books may say, no dealer is going to give you much of a trade in on a used Ford car. That's just it - you generally get crappy trade-ins unless you bring in a Toyota/Honda.
A comparably equipped Ford Fusion SE V6 on CarsDirect for my area is 20,587 vs. 21,254 for an Accord SE V6. That's less than $1k of savings... nowhere near the $5k mark. The cheapest value buy would be the Sonata V6 at $18,466.
For the extra couple hundred bucks, I get more engine power, stability control and the peace of knowing its a Honda and will retain its value if I decide to buy it over after the lease is done, or I can just wash my hands and go buy the new Accord in 2009 after they get done ironing out 1st year bugs.
Don't like those odds. Good luck Ford. Tick, tick, tick....
GM and Ford - 2-5K is common at the end of the year, so that's a huge savings if you are patient.
Pity those that bought Five Hundreds/Montegos/Freestyles because no one will be looking for a used vehicle that people don't remember the nameplate for. :lemon:
What next? Fusion becomes Mondeo? Who knows? :confuse:
And this is the desperation at FoMoCo these days... they're resorting to renaming products with slight revisions to sell them. :sick:
I would say the only thing safe enough to touch in the Ford stable might be the Mustang and the F150... if they try to mess with those nameplates, Ford will be beyond doomed.
Oh - and not forgetting no more minivans... the Windstar and now Freestar nameplates are RIP. Try and sell one of those and you'll get nothing like the resale of a Honda Odyssey.
While the name recognition of the Accord, Civic, Camry, Corolla have years and years of solid automotive engineering advancements associated with them.
I'm trying to decide between a '07 camry SE 6 and an Altima 07 se 6, any suggestions?
As for ford, if they could duplicate the Mustangs success at half the price, they may have something. Personally, I'm done with ford. Too many things to list. I wonder if they just didn't want me as a customer?
Thanks again for your input.
$2000 more for peace of mind and a longer run time is worth it, just wish they'd extend their warranty.
When the Camry name effectively replaced the Corona, Toyota had to rebuild the market perception as well, as they had excellent name recognition with the Corona. I owned a Corona when Toyota dumped it in favor of the "new" Camry. Many Corona owners lost money when that occurred too.
Invoice on the Ford Fusion SE V6 is $20,523 with ABS. Then there is $1000 rebate. In addition to (not instead of) the rebate there is discount financing. The finacing will probably save most buyers another $1000-1500. So for most the real cost difference is probably going be in the range of $2500 to $3000.
I bought a 4 cyl Mazda6 (sport value), the most comparable Accord would be the SE. I paid $16,000 (admittedly, this was an unusually good deal, but $16,900 was readily available). I would guess that the Accord SE would have cost me at least $19,338 based on edmunds invoice less the $750 dealer incentive. So the difference for me was $3300 and a more typical difference would have been about $2400.
Price-wise the Honda competitor to the 4 cylinder Fusion, Milan, Mazda6, or Sonata is the Civic.
That POV is a joke. C&D and MT talk dirty about GM/Ford products all the time in spite of the ad dollars spent by those two manufacturers. If you really think CR is objective simply because they dont accept ad dollars you have been duped. C&D and MT criticize vehicles all the time as does edmunds. Have you ever read an edmunds review of a GM product? I think it's prety obvious GM's ad dollars have no influence on Edmunds opinions. There are only a handful of GM products edmunds likes.
They charge as much as they can get away with but I dont agree that the public agrees with the ridiculous MSRPs of some import sedans. The Altima is already being disconted in my area and I'm not surprised because a V6 with options is very expensive. The Camry is also being discounted for the same reason. Remember, import cars can be leased for low rates due to resale value and that is how many people get into leather clad V6 Accords and Camrys. Most people are not going to want to pay $450 a month for a Camry/Accord for 60 months so they lease instead.
As critics of GM always note, vehicles that are priced properly dont need discounting so I believe that we can agree that the '07 camry and especially Altima are a tad bit overpriced.
Reading all these posts, it is even more obvious to me Ford has an image hurdle to jump now. If anyone actually does research they will see Ford vehicle reliability of its car/truck line is actually very good. The media is partially to blame for both Ford/GM's image. The unending bashing of anything Ford/GM. Don't get me wrong, I don't totally blame the media. Ford had its stumbles and made some wrong moves.
I don't really see how the name of a car will deal a death blow for Ford. I don't totally agree either with name changes for the 500 to Taurus. But if you look at how reliable and the great value of the Taurus it may make sense. The 500 now Taurus, is actually a very, very good vehicle. Reliable, safe and value laden. I guess what bothers me most is seeing a piece of American history that is struggling and seeing Americans cheer in its demise. Once this part of American history is gone, its gone forever. Honda/Toyota are not American history. Thier PR is obviously working. :sick:
BTW, the Aura is clearly better than the Fusion and 6 in almost every area. Not that those are bad cars, but the Aura is newer and better.
I dont have a problem with the camry doing poorly in the C&D test but I do have a problem with the Aura finishing 4th when it had the 2nd best performance overall and they praised its handling and styling. Sorry, but it's hard to understand how the car lost to the Accord (3 places behind no less) when it performed so well.
I would love to see these non C&D comparos where the Accord beat newer cars. I dont think the Accord ever loses in C&D when compared to midsize family cars. It did lose to the TSX and Jetta in a sports sedan test two years ago. at this point in time it's clear to most publications that the accord has fallen behind the Camry and Altima and possibly Aura in most regards. C&D will not allow reality to interfere with their reverance for Honda and thus the Accord will finish #1 regardless of its age.
The XR has quite a bit more equipment than a discounted Accord XE. 18" wheels, fog lights, 6 speed auto, MP3 jack, trip computer, remote start, 240W sound system just to name a few. The two cars arent exactly equal so it would make sense for the Accord to be cheaper.
exactly. And the thing is Toyota and Honda never change model names or discontinue names. Except for Echo, Paseo, MR2, Previa, Supra, Celica, Cressida, Vigor, CRX, SLX, Legend, etc. Yeah I know some are acuras, but you get the point.
Honestly, resale value is the last major reason to buy foreign cars. Not that they dont make nice cars, but that is the only area where they have a real advantage in 2007. If you lease resale value isnt going to be a big deal, same applies if you are going to keep the car for a decade. Resale means the most if you plan to get rid of the car in 4-5 years.
ABS alone is not enough to make the Fusion SE V6 comparable to the Accord SE V6. You have to do the tire upgrade to 17-inch wheels (sold only as an appearance package) and traction control. CarsDirect pricing to me is what you can typically expect to get from a dealer in your area, making it much more realistic than using invoice pricing, and that included the bonus cash on the Fusion too. Without it, the Fusion would actually cost more!
I wanted a cheap lease deal $199/month $1,999 at signing 24 months 12/k miles was the deal at the time when I got the car. Currently you can get $209/month 36 months $2,199 for the same Accord SE V-6... the high residuals on Accords make them excellent for leases right now.
Compare that to 249/month 39 months none at signing for a Fusion I4 lease deal (not V6), for only a little extra (total cost), you can get into the Accord SE V6 vs. an I4 base Fusion.
If the alloy size is an issue the Mazda6 with 17 inchers would probably be similar in price to the Fusion.
If you wish to pay over $26K for the XR Aura, I am sure they would be more than happy to see your money. Last month, 4,100 Auras sold. That ain't too many. I would say the XR is worth $24K or under, and the XE under $21K.
-Loren
-Loren