Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

backy · March 2006

Oops, sorry about that.

I didn't save the original post of course, but the gist of it was that there is at least one dealer in the Boca Raton area, Al Hendrickson Toyota, that offers $1000-1500 rebates on '06 Camrys on its web site (which I can't post here, but a quick search on the Web will find it). Since the rebates are a nationwide Toyota promotion, I think they would apply beyond a few units. So I am surprised that seniors can't find prices below MSRP in the Boca Raton on Camrys at least. Now, if they don't want to or try to get a price below MSRP, that's their business. But the lower prices are out there.

thegraduate · March 2006

I didn't say I didn't believe you; chill out a little. I was impressed, b/c no special offers are going on in central Alabama.

jeffyscott · March 2006

I would think much less in North America - VW had a terrible 2005 over here, especially in the US market.

Not sure how much of that had to do with the slow pace of rolling out their new Jetta and Passat. Recent sales numbers are up though:

Volkswagen of America, Inc. reported February 2006 sales of 16,329, an increase of 21.3 percent as compared to the same period in 2005 when sales were 13,457, making it the best February result for the brand since 2003.

http://media.vw.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=9854

600kgolfgt · March 2006

> I would think much less in North America - VW had a terrible 2005 over here, especially in the US market.

The article mentioned VW Group - which includes the following:

VW
Audi
Seat
Skoda
Bentley
Lamborghini

And the revenue figures constitute their worldwide total - not just the U.S.

booyahcramer · March 2006

I think the 06 Camry is being discounted everywhere. You'd think they'd be sold out of em buy now considering they stopped producing them a while back.

And what's that gonna do to the resale value of the millions of other late model Camry's out there?

jrock65 · March 2006

Well, the Fusion won something.

The Most Washable Car award.

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006/03/09/000121.html

joe97 · March 2006

I realized it was VW group and worldwiede, but I was simply stating how it performed here in the states. I should mention, however, VW has gotten off to a great start during the first two months of 2006.

dd123 · March 2006

Hi

I need your help to decide which car should I go for.
I am looking at Acccord LX SE 06 or Camry CE or LE.
i am not much into v6.

I think both offer excelletn value for the money with almost all the features.
I can get Accord 06 SE/LX for nealry 19500 + TTL.
Not sure about Camry though as it just came out.

Please help me with your comments to decide one of the two

Thanks

DD

badgerfan · March 2006

Good luck finding a "V-4"! Virtually all 4 cylinder engines are in line 4 cylinders, unless you go with a Subaru which has an opposed cylinder 4, which is also not a "V".

dd123 · March 2006

Sorry for the misleading title
I meant the regular inline v4 available in accord /camry

badgerfan · March 2006

You need to ban the V from your alphabet when talking about 4 cylinder engines. It is either an in line 4 "I4" or a "V6". Go into a dealer asking for a V4 and they might consider you an easy mark when it comes bargaining time!

That being said, drive each and see which you prefer. There are a lot of other good competitors out there as well such as Mazda6, Nissan Altima, Ford Fusion, etc, all have 4 cylinder versions, if you are willing to expand your horizons beyond the two you seem to have narrowed it down to.

$19500 sounds like a lot of money considering there are a lot of good competitors that will run you closer to $15-$17K for a basic four cylinder automatic sedan in this segment.

kingsalmon · March 2006

The Hyundai Sonata wins in my book. It has all of the safety features standard of the Accord/Camry and more. It scored better in safety than both Cam/Accord. It is also significantly less expensive and looks much better(imo). Another plus is that they are more rare to see than the Cam/cords. You could be the different/original/special one on the road(take that with any connotation).

Final note, Camry/Accord are up for a restyling in 2007. Sonata was brand new for 2005 as a 2006 model. Do you want a new vehicle that looks old or would you like a new vehicle that also looks new?

Hyundai's quality has drastically improved so it wouldn't be a bad choice. I own a '05 Elantra and love driving this vehicle. Handling could be better, but it has been very reliable 30,000 miles, gets great gas mileage, and is still running like new.

I'm a new Hyundai homer, but that's because I used to own Hondas and discovered that Hyundai offers more for the money. If you can get past all of the class/status issues, the Sonata may be a good choice.

Peace

w9cw · March 2006

I'm not piling on the guy for making a mistake, just adding to the educational level of the forum. When I think of the few V4's in the past, the one that comes to mind first is the Ford Taunus V4 used in the German Ford Taunus and the SAAB 96 series sedan, and the later SAAB Sonnets. The earlier SAAB 93 was available with either an Inline 3-cylider 2-stroke, or the V4 near the end of the production run of the 93. V4's are few and far between. The Subaru is a Flat, Boxer, or Horizontally-Opposed 4. In reality, the first Subaru horizontally-opposed 4 was simply a water-cooled version of the VW air-cooled horizontally-opposed 4. Subaru did what most Japanese companies did during that initial time-frame - they simply copied a design, but improved upon it.

ctalk · March 2006

It scored better in safety than both Cam/Accord.
Do you mean crash safety?

If so, it seems IIHS rates the Camry (w/optional SAB) and Accord better.
link title
I wonder how the new Camry will do in the tests. Will it get the same scores as the new IS? The IS recieved a silver rating.

Camry/Accord are up for a restyling in 2007.
I believe he was looking at the 2007 Camry. The Accord is up for a refresh in 2008.

bigwill30 · March 2006

I agree. I had a Mazda 6. I ditched it ang got an 06 Altima. Very impressed with the power for a 4cyl. Accords dont have the power and the Camry is over priced. Go with the Altima. Now, the Maxima is also a godd my, but it is heavier than the Altima.

bobad · March 2006

i am not much into v6.

The Sonata can be had with an excellent, jet-smooth V6 for less money than the Camry/Accord 4 cyl.

You owe it to yourself to drive one.

jhinsc · March 2006

The only problem with the Altima 4-cyl, is it's mpg. Some of the Nissan V6 models get just about the same mpg. And the Camry, Accord, and Sonata 4-cyl's get much better mpg's. Adding a 5-speed auto would help the Altima get better mileage.

goodegg · March 2006

Drive one, but not buy one?

Millions of people aren't convinced a Hyundai Sonata is as reliable as a CamCord. So they gotta be priced lower.

94hawkskin · March 2006

Actually alot of people are starting to change their perception of the Hyundai Sonata. It won't take as long as most people think.

I test drove the Accord, Camry and the Sonata. Here are my rankings.

1) Accord
2) Sonata
3) Camry

While the Accord was the best, it was the best for the money. I thought the Sonata was almost as good as the Accord but for about 5K less. That was way too much of a difference to make up. And after 5,000 miles I have no regrets.

motownusa · March 2006

But you do have the 100,000 mile warranty.

thegraduate · March 2006

I have a hard time with "the accords don't have the power".

You do realize, that the Accord is quicker than the Altima, in both passing and 0-60, right? With the combination of the 5-speed auto and about 10 horsepower (before SAE standards were reset), the Accord zooms past Altima. Actually, the 2003 Accord was quicker than the 2003 Altima, back when the horsepower difference was as high as 15. (Motor Trend, 2003)

The Camry is slower than either of these cars.

94hawkskin · March 2006

I mean't to say that the Accord wasn't the best for the money they wanted. If price is not a factor, then get the Accord. If it is a factor, then you will have a hard time finding a better car for the price of a Sonata.

booyahcramer · March 2006

There are so many caveats,exclusions, prorations and deductibles in warranties.

I'd rather drive a proven reliable car than rely on a warranty promise to convince me to buy a car with an iffy track record.

Time will tell if the Sonata delivers like a CamCord.

dd123 · March 2006

I think Sonata's gas mileage is little bit low than accord and camry.

Anyway thanks a lot for the replies

backy · March 2006

Look at the numbers and you will see that the Accord, Camry, and Sonata are all very close on fuel economy.

lweiss · March 2006

I saw the Hyundai Azera at an auto show in January and now I am seeing them in parking lots- and if you are looking at a high end Accord or Camry, you should look at the Azera- amazingly well equipped for about $28K- ohmygosh, the Koreans are out to knock Honda, Toyota, Nissan (and yes, Acura, Lexus, and Infiniti) for a loop. With the Sonata at the lower end and the Azera at the higher end, they could be getting it from both angles. Plus the comforting $100K Hyundai warranty- and... you get the idea.

badgerfan · March 2006

Wow, if that Hyundai warranty costs $100K, I can now see where Hyundai is making their money!

(I know you didn't mean to put the dollar sign there--just kidding)

alpha01 · March 2006

So wait, you drove the '07 Camry, decided against it, and have already put 5000 miles on your new vehicle? Impressive since the Camry debuted this Monday...

~alpha

jeffyscott · March 2006

In addition, the price differential between Camcord and Korean or American cars can pay for a lot of repairs or an extended warranty.

94hawkskin · March 2006

I have not seen or test driven the 07 Camry. When I bought my vehicle at the beginning of December I test drove an 06 Camry LE with no other options. I thought it was the worst of the three cars. But now that the 07 model is going to be out that might change. Although it will probably be a while before they sell at close to invoice.

booyahcramer · March 2006

Yea but its still a Hyundai. That's the idea I get. Not gonna put $28K into one.

wolverinejoe80 · March 2006

"it's still a hyundai" LOL

that's so 10 years ago.

wake up, young man!

wolverinejoe80 · March 2006

let's see.

azera has 260+ hp, looks great in and out, it's huge, and it's still 5k-6k cheaper than avalon. 28k for that car is an awesome deal. i test drove it, and it is a great car.

it's not like azera is 40k. it's freakin 28k. hell go to ebay now, a dealer is selling the brand new for 26k.

anyway, you are 5 years too late for saying 'it's still a hyundai'

wolverinejoe80 · March 2006

toyota and honda will be forced to lower their price sooner or later.

hyundai will sell 170k-200k sonatas this year. and numbers will increase every year by 10-15%.

bobad · March 2006

Drive one, but not buy one?

Just do yourself a favor and drive them all before choosing. That's what I did, and I've never looked back.

Sonata salesmen have the easiest job in the world. All they have to do is introduce themselves and jingle the keys.

bobad · March 2006

Yea but its still a Hyundai. That's the idea I get. Not gonna put $28K into one.

The name game won't get you anything for your money. If you open your eyes, you can see that Hyundai's quality and customer satisfaction is growing exponentially. It's very clear what Hyundai is doing. They's invested billions to make a quality product that will beat Camry and Accord at their own game, and they are determined to do whatever it takes to win.

I think they've all but accomplished their goal in 1 bold stroke. The most astute buyers already know it. Everyone will know it in a year or so.

joe97 · March 2006

Hyundai put it best themselves:

"A Hyundai like you've never seen before"

They are building excellent and quality cars these days...can't go wrong with the values you'd get!!

thegraduate · March 2006

It was a silver LE 4-cylinder model. I have to say, it looks better in person than in the pictures. It was being test driven, and I could notice that both passenger-side hubcaps were not riding even (like they were bucked-out or loose from the steel wheel. I'm kind of surprised, b/c I haven't had this problem on my 10 year old car! Hopefully its a one-time occurrance that won't happen to many models.

All-in-all, it's better than I thought, but in silver, LE guise, it was a real yawn.

zed421v · March 2006

I have a 2003 Camry SE. In cold weather my steering column makes some strange noises. My dash board creaks and groins. My rear suspension bounces over every bump. My wife just bought a Hyundai Azera. I love her car. No rattles or squeaks. I'm 6'4" and it is one comfortable car. I think Hyundai is becoming what Toyota once was, one great car.

goodegg · March 2006

toyota and honda will be forced to lower their price sooner or later

I agree. Hyundai is forcing their hand with their pricing. I doubt Honda and Toyota are gonna do nothing about it. They have their strong reputations going for them, so lowering prices will be a win for them.

Hyundai can't command the same prices for their cars that Honda and Toyota can - yet. Maybe someday. They're still being handicapped.

Reminds me of BMW a few years back. Acura and Infiniti took a run at them and BMW lowered their prices. Now BMW sells more car today than they did then. Lower margins but bigger revenues.

alpha01 · March 2006

I don't feel Toyota will significantly lower prices, but rather, re-content vehicles to acheive better parity.

Example- in Dec 01 my parents bought an 02 Camry LE with the following items (then optional): ABS, remote keyless entry, and 8 way power drivers seat. MSRP $21,379.

Today, the Camry LE has those features standard, and adds side and side curtain airbags, 16 inch wheels, 4 wheel disc brakes, telescoping steering wheel, electroluminescent instrumentation, steering wheel audio controls, 5 speed automatic transmission (vs. 4).....
MSRP on the 2007 Camry LE plus mats is $21,249, or $130 LESS than the 2002, which had less equipment.

~alpha

njerald · March 2006

So............. they lowered the price significatly.

Less $$$$$$ and more options.

You proved the case that you thought wasn't true!!!!!!!!

stickguy · March 2006

be clear with the onato vs. Accord comparisions. If you are touting a V6 Sonata for the price of an I4 Accord, you better use the V6 ilage from the Hyundai. Real world, at least according to the Edmunds comparo test, it will be significantly lower.

IIRC, the Accord wsa ~25 (Camry 24 or so), and the Hyundai was ~20.

IMO, now that I own one, the Accord 4 cyl. is an amazing engine. Quiet, smooth, peppy, excellent MPG for a car this size, refined, etc. Frankly, unless I was loading it to the gills and driving through the mountains all the time, I really don't see a need for the V6 in this car.

No idea about the Sonata, not having driven one. And I would have, except for the dumb decision to only make the 5 speed stick available in a stripper model (no moonroof or leather), which took it off my list from the start.

alpha01 · March 2006

My point was that the actual prices are probably not going to drop in dollar terms, but the vehicles will receive more content at the same prices to better compete against the likes of Hyundai.

~alpha

goodegg · March 2006

the Accord 4 cyl. is an amazing engine

Absolutely the best I4 in a car today. Great pep, very smooth performance through all the gears, quiet, fuel efficient, and bulletproof. I put 59K on mine in 3.5 years. Never burned any oil. Never made any 'funky' noises. Etc etc etc.

But - the new V6s out are a blast. Even the Sonata's. Great power and decent fuel economy. Very handy when toting around the family, or a group of guys on a golf outing to the mountains.

ctalk · March 2006

But - the new V6s out are a blast.

The I4 is truly an amazing engine. It is remarkably quiet, and is IMO the best in its class.

But after I test drove the V6, I fell in love. I found it great for overtaking, hauling, merging and sometimes for pure fun :P

Today I was following a very slow Caravan. It was quite busy on the opposite lane. Overtaking was quite dangerous and challenging. I saw a very small opening and decided to floor it. If I had the I4, I am almost 100% sure I could not have made it.

backy · March 2006

If you are looking for a good value in a mid-sized car but the Sonata doesn't quite cut it, take a look at the 2006.5 Optima. I got a good look at it today at the auto show, and I was impressed. An LX 4-cylinder model with ABS, ESC, and the standard six airbags will sticker for just under $19k according to the Kia regional rep I talked with. The LX model on the floor was $18,250 with 5-speed automatic but without ABS or ESC. The rep said those features would add about $600.

The thing I liked about the Optima is that Kia included some little touches that Hyundai forgot about on the Sonata: 5-speed automatic on the 4-cylinder models, folding mirrors, rear center headrest, telescopic wheel even on the 4-cylinder model, station selector on the steering wheel, black interior option, chrome trim around the windows even on the base model, and a nice-looking dash layout even on the base model. More importantly for me, the Optima's manual seat height adjuster did not tip me forward as much as the Sonata's, and thus I could find a comfortable seating position without the need to move up to a power seat. As a result, an Optima that has the features I need will be just under $19k list--about $2500 less than the lowest-priced Sonata with a power seat. (However, a Hyundai rep at the show told me that the power seat can be had as a separate option on the Sonata GLS, for $300--although I have never seen a Sonata with just the power seat as an option.)

A few other things about the Optima: it has the same 4-cylinder engine as the Sonata, but only a 2.7L V6 is offered. However, the V6 model starts at under $20k (they had one on the turntable). And there are some features/options on the Optima that are not available on the Sonata: power adjustable pedals, rear sunshade, 4-way power passenger seat, "Supervision" gauge cluster (disappears when off), aluminum interior trim, and tire pressure monitoring system.

I liked the control layout and dash even on the base LX model. The tilt/telescopic wheel was comfy even though it was not covered in leather (available as an option). The fabric was light gray and had a more attractive pattern than those on the Sonata IMO. The center armrest was not high enough to be usable, and it did not slide forward as on the Sonata, but it had a power point inside with a pass-thru so you could plug something in and run the power cord out. Rear seat room seemed about the same as in the Sonata--meaning it was plenty roomy--and the seat was comfortable for two adults, but I would not want to ride in the center. Both the trunk and hood are propped up by gas struts (a feature the Accord and Camry, among others, lack). The wheel covers do a pretty good job mimicking alloys, and overall the styling is clean and tasteful if not very exciting. The regional rep said that the suspension tuning is sportier than the Sonata's, which would be consistent with what Kia has done on other offerings like the Sportage and Spectra. And unlike the Sonata, it comes in red!

The Optima is supposed to be arriving in dealerships now. I will look forward to driving one, and seeing how it does on the IIHS crash tests. Hopefully the IIHS will not wait too long to test it.

backy · March 2006

Well, it looks like I got all excited about the 2006.5 Optima for nothing. I just went to kia.com and found out that ABS and ESC are not even available on the LX I4 model, just the EX and the V6 models. So the least expensive Optima with ABS and ESC is $20,545 (LX V6), or $50 more for the EX I4. With the $1000 loyalty rebate and other aggressive discounting on the Sonata, a Sonata with power seat and moonroof and Homelink is likely to cost me less than the Optima. Shoot, I could probably get a LX Sonata for about the same price as an LX V6 Optima or EX I4.

ctalk · March 2006

Aww
You sounded so excited for the Optima :P

I never got to sit in the new Optima. At the auto show, I only saw it on the spinner. Seemed attractive, but I preferred the Sonata's more classy design. From the pictures, I prefer the Optima's interior. I'll reserve my judgment until I've sat in the car.

driverdm · March 2006

I saw and sat inside of one at a recent auto show. I wasn't that impressed with the design. It looked real bland on the outside. It reminds me of an Infiniti Q45, possibly one of the slowest selling luxury cars today. The Sonata's lins are much more crisp. The interior, I wil lgive the Optima he nod, but that is more about what Hyundai did wrong on the interior versus what Kia did right. It is a decent interior but it is nothing to write home about.

Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

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