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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

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Comments

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Careful... there are some recent Hyundai and Kia owners who were saying similar things a few years ago. Better keep the handguns out of the house!

    It's funny... the main thing keeping me from even thinking about a Malibu is its looks. Now, the new Saturn mid-sizer looks pretty slick, and the G6 isn't bad looking but doesn't have the solid feel of the Sonata. The Milan is good-looking also I think, but the Fusion is over-chromed for my taste.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    the days when people woulds say the same thing about not ever having that Japanese garbage in thier garages.. LOL!..
    Now look at today.. Who would have known?
    Koreans are going to make a killing in the next 10 years. Hyundia is going to unseat Honda/Nissan and Mazda here in the U.S. is my prediction. This stigma of not buying Korean will fall by the wayside just as it did for the Japanese years ago...
    Reliability is virtually a non-factor. Go to MSN reliability data and take a look at just about any car brand over a 4-5 year period. Looks like a pretty even playing field to me. This is where Toyota/Honda that have built thier companies on this reputation are going to have to come up with better ways to get people into thier cars. As consumers will find out through research and word of mouth that GM, Ford, Kia, Hyundai, whomever will be as reliable as.. a Toyota/Honda/Nissan.. Then what? Product will be the key. Bringing product that consumers want. Options, refinement, nnovation, safety, styling will play key roles..
  • zzzoom6zzzoom6 Member Posts: 425
    i geuss mazda sales were up double digits last year so I can only hope they do a good job of improving their product. this years mazda 6's interior is a step up from previous years for sure. much better quality materials on their seats, and they are more comfortable as well (I never should have sat in an 06...makes my 05 a little jealous). i wonder if the altima is going to try to correct their handling and make a run at the more sporty market: they have a great v-6 to do it with! so that would have the mazda 6, the altima, the legacy, g6, and to a lesser extent the accord to compete for the "driver's market". as a consumer, it's great that there are so many competent cars to choose from. compare what we can choose from today vs, say, 15 years ago.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I wouldn't expect to see any companies mentioned unseated, but instead, them making room for each other at the sales table, instead of knocking each other out.

    If product is the key, I think Hyundai is moving in the right direction, but they have a fast moving target to keep up with in Toyota, Honda, and Nissan.
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    "Man, somebody blow my brains out if you see me buying one of these. Much rather have any Ford or Chevy. The Koreans may be building better cars these days, but I just can't stand the cheap looks of 'em."

    Can I just do it anyway? I haven't used my shotgun in the longest time, I need to get some practice in :)

    Of course, it's a Hyundai, it's a Kia, they will always be perceived as cheap and knockoffs, and mind you, they must automatically suck.

    Glad to hear you are writing off Koreans; I'm sure GM and Ford would be pleased to have you as a customer. Keep us updated and let us know how great GM and Ford products are, such as the Chevey Aveo...
  • meateatermeateater Member Posts: 123
    Hyundia is going to unseat Honda/Nissan and Mazda here in the U.S. is my prediction

    Huh? Hyundai is gonna 'unseat' Honda/Nissan and Mazda? What's that mean? And 'make a killing'? Kill who? Their pals to the north?

    If you're trying to say you think they'll outsell Honda and Nissan and Mazda you're nuts. Maybe in your household. Maybe outsell Mazda. Honda's got the sterling reputation Hyundai would sell the rest of their citizen's souls to have. Sure their product is improving. But 1 good year doesn't elevate Hyundai to Honda's level. Have another drink. On me.
  • jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    "If you're trying to say you think they'll outsell Honda and Nissan and Mazda you're nuts. Maybe in your household. Maybe outsell Mazda."

    Err.. Hyundai already outsells Mazda by a huge margin. Almost double the sales in fact.

    Don't forget that Honda started selling cars in the US 16 years before Hyundai did, and Nissan's headstart was 28 years.

    I think in about 10 years Hyundai could come close to Honda and Nissan in sales.
  • bobadbobad Member Posts: 1,587
    I think in about 10 years Hyundai could come close to Honda and Nissan in sales.

    I was thinking more like 3 years.

    Know who Toyota is afraid of? Not Honda, not Nissan, but Hyundai. That's because Hyundai is going after Toyota with a vengeance. That's their goal, and they're obsessed with knocking Toyota off. Even if they don't totally succeed, they can steal a huge chunk of Toyota's market share. If there were no 06 Sonata, I bet most of those new car purchases over that 1 year span would have been Camrys. So Toyota is probably already feeling the pinch.

    Hyundai's main hurdle has not been quality or styling, but name recognition. They're quickly overcoming that hurdle. I'm regularly hearing people mention "Hyundai" in the same breath with Toyota, Honda, Nissan, and Mazda now. A year or 2 ago, it was seldom mentioned.
  • dd123dd123 Member Posts: 53
    I saw few sonatas and I think they are really good
    Hyuandais have really come so far
    Check out the edmunds.com comparison of hyuandai sonata
    accord and camry. Sonata outranked accord and toyota.

    Few of my friends have hyundais for last 4/5 years and they never had any problem

    why to pay $5/6k more just for honda/toyota name?
    BTW hyuadais have 100K miles/10years awsome warranty.

    I am not Korean
  • krzysskrzyss Member Posts: 849
  • 2zmax2zmax Member Posts: 140
    If Hyundai keeps improving at the same pace as they have done over the last couple of years and keep their prices the way they are, they will not only catch up, but will outsell Honda and Nissan in couple of years. The new Azera and Sonata are extremely well competitive, when comes to comparing them to Accords, Camries and Altimas/Maximas.
    If Hyundai continues on their path of improvement and refinement, they will be #1 someday.
    Personally I would say that the mid size sedans are rated the following:
    1)New Camry
    2) Altima/Maxima
    3) Sonata/Azera
    4) Accord
    5) Mazda 6
    6) Ford Fusion/Milan
    7) GM’s garbage

    I placed Altima above Accord, because Accord is lame looking and the recent refresh did nothing to the engine/transmission. I think that Honda sales will be down, while Camry and Sonata will keep rising. The only reason I placed Altima in second place is due to its’ sweet 3.5 VQ (The best V6 ever). Mazda 6 is a great car, but needs more room and needs a 3.5 250 HP+ V6 to be awesome, the current 3.0 V6 is lame.
    Ford Fusion is a Mazda 6, that is made in Mexico and comes with 3/36 Warranty, which is lame.
    And finally GM – Malibu is butt ugly and lame, and G6 is crap.
    Anyone who drives Mazda 6 and G6/Malibu back to back, will never look at GM again.
    That HORRIBLE electronic steering is just ridiculous. G6/Malibu handle like crap and have a 3.5L V6 that is just as lame as the 3.0L from Ford.
  • fsowirlesfsowirles Member Posts: 195
    My neighbor just bought a new Sonata (his second one). It is a nice car, and is very nice for the price. They can pick off some of the lower budget customers of their competition, but will not take anyone that is buying the higher trims with lots of options. For example, someone buying a Camry XLE w/NAV or an Accord EX w/NAV would not buy a Sonata. Heck, Hynudai doesn't even offer NAV in their entire lineup. Honestly, IMHO, I don't think they want that part of the segment, or they would go after it.

    BTW: I remember my brother's first car...a 1986 Hyundai Excel or something like that. What a POS.
  • 2zmax2zmax Member Posts: 140
    Honestly, how many Camries and Accords have you seen with a NAV? If I was going to drop almost 30k on a mid-size sedan, I’d go for a G35 or a TL. Plus, Hyundai will offer NAV for ½ half the price of the ones in Hoyondas. If you need a NAV, get a Garmin on sale at Best Buy for $499
    Same goes for XM radio and stuff like that. Extremely well equipped Sonata LX with V6 is sold for 22k, you won’t even touch a base Camry/Accord/Altima with a V6 for that much. The cheapest Altima 3.5 SE is sold for 26K MSRP , and 24K invoice, and it comes with NO Optioanl equipment. The Sonata LX is LOADED.
    As a matter of fact, if you were to compare prices and options, then you would pay 28K-29K for Camry/Accord/Altima vs. 22K for the comparably equipped Sonata. I don’t know about you, but If I could save 6-7K on my car purchase and get much better warranty, I would do it in a heart beat.
  • w9cww9cw Member Posts: 888
    I spent over 6 months late last year looking at Honda, Toyota, and Hyundai. At least a dozen test drives, some extended, over that time frame as well. I'm a former Honda, Mazda, Nissan, and Toyota owner, but I bought a 2006 Hyundai. The final decision actually surprised me, as it was not based on price, but quality of the entire product and value.

    I must say that I've been never been happier with a new car. It was in perfect condition at delivery, without even the slightest hint of a glitch. And, so far, no problems.

    The dealer is wonderful, and sincerely interested in my satisfaction. The Toyota dealer was also very easy to work with during our decision making process. The Honda dealer, on the other hand, was somewhat arrogant.

    Although I won't go as far as some saying that Hyundai will overtake Honda, or especially juggernaut Toyota, but it will certainly make major inroads in sales over the next 5 years.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Hyundai's main hurdle has not been quality or styling, but name recognition. They're quickly overcoming that hurdle.

    I disagree, although not completely. Hyundai for years was associated with cheap, unreliabile transportation. Now, that they are making huge strides in quality and reliability (the latest Sonata, Azera are too new to see how "reliable" they are, but the quality is at Nissan levels. Hyundai is recognized, just for the wrong reasons. A reputation can be a car's best friend or worst enemy.
  • w9cww9cw Member Posts: 888
    thegraduate wrote: "Hyundai for years was associated with cheap, unreliabile transportation."

    In the beginning and until somewhat recently, this was true. But, so were Honda and Toyota when they first hit American soil. The early Honda CVCC Civics would rust away almost right in front of your eyes. I remember it well, as I owned one.

    And, don't even ask the primary car buying demographic in the late '60s and early '70s their opinion of Japanese cars. They would only laugh at you if you asked.

    Times change, and so will the opinion of Korean cars. Why, because of their current quality and reliability. Chinese cars are just around the corner. They will be the next "whipping boy" on the block by the uninformed consumer. But, watch out, they will be a force to be reckoned with in the future.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Actually it's unlikely that Hyundai will take away customers from Toyota in large numbers. Certainly there will be some and vice-versa. Hyundai's growth as it goes after Toyota will be from others.

    Toyota has seen the threat of the 'Korean menace' and actually has a strategy in place to fight it tooth and nail when it comes down to it. It's there you just have to recognize it. Hyundai is a very likely #2 nameplate in the next 5-10 years.

    For now it has two big problems, lack of supply and even more so competitors that see the threat.
    It has one brand new plant here with a capacity of maybe 300,000 units annually.
    As with the new Camry and Fusion/Milan and soon Altima/Accord the others are not waiting on death row for execution.

    Much of the growth of all the above mentioned nameplates may come from the few remaining retail buyers of GM/DC. If GM/DC slowly exit the midsize market it will leave maybe 500,000 new potential customers up for grabs annually.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Heck, Hynudai doesn't even offer NAV in their entire lineup.

    Actually, they do--just not in North America yet. As soon as Hyundai is ready to go after that market, they can make nav available across their entire lineup (well, maybe not the Accent).
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I saw a news item today (Minneapolis StarTribune) that I thought was pertinent to this discussion, particularly recent posts about market share and who will steal customers from whom.

    A recent online survey of 1000 new-car shoppers showed that almost half--46 percent--put purchase price above everything else in their buying considerations. Another 31 percent said make and model was most important, followed by a tie for third by performance and safety (numbers not given), and in dead last... fuel economy.

    Assuming this survey reflects general reality (we don't know the population or other details), it looks like Hyundai and Kia will benefit from their emphasis on value, while Toyota, Honda, and the domestics will benefit (somewhat less so) from brand loyalty. But it does bring into question the importance of the "horsepower war" to the average buyer, and also brings into question how many new buyers Toyota will win over with the Camry Hybrid (and Nissan with the Altima Hybrid). It also shows that when push comes to shove, most buyers will opt for a low price or a particular make/model vs. safety. So if Ford can keep the price of the Fusion/Milan down, the poor IIHS crash test results may not hurt sales much.

    Didn't someone say once, "there are lies, d*** lies, and surveys"?
  • fsowirlesfsowirles Member Posts: 195
    I had been car shopping for about 6 months to replace my Volvo, and was a few days from writing a check for an Acura TL. I ordered a 2007 Camry instead. As good a car, with similar options, hanlding, and ride IMHO for thousands less.

    You can easily say if you spend $30k (which I am) you can look at BMW 3 series, Infiniti G35, and Tl....but $30k even won't get you a new one, not a lightly used one with anything in it. I got my Camry SE V6 with essentially everything possible for under $30k.

    As for aftermarket XM and NAV. I agree they are functionally capable, but you can't beat factory OEM integration and ergonomics. I would rather not have a bunch of crap on my dashboard (I have done it in the past, and I am not 25 anymore ;) )
  • jimmy81jimmy81 Member Posts: 170
    What! You didn't buy a Sonata?

    Actually 06TLs are selling for $31K and offer a lot more options over the SE. Both are super vehicles tho. The soon to be replaced G35 is $35K.

    I admit. The Sonata LX is a great value. Just don't like the looks.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    What! You didn't buy a Sonata?

    Actually 06TLs are selling for $31K and offer a lot more options over the SE. Both are super vehicles tho. The soon to be replaced G35 is $35K.

    I admit. The Sonata LX is a great value. Just don't like the looks.

    He apparently wanted options that the Sonata doesn't even offer (i.e. Navi, XM[does the Hyundai offer XM?], 268 hp, 6-speed auto, better handling package (SE trim), and was willing to pay for them.
  • cxccxc Member Posts: 122
    Fsowirles:

    Could you update the transmission performance (six speed auto) of 2007 Camry SE V6 in about three months on this forum?
  • bjbird2bjbird2 Member Posts: 647
    I can still remember when people were saying that Toyota would never come close to GM in sales numbers, that Toyota products were synonymous with junk, made out of old US beer cans. Now Toyota has just about caught up with GM's numbers in the US, and GM is on the verge of bankruptcy.
    Times change, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Hyundai as a sales leader in the next 10 years. They're making progress faster than the Japanese did in this country.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I can still remember when people were saying that Toyota would never come close to GM in sales numbers, that Toyota products were synonymous with junk, made out of old US beer cans. Now Toyota has just about caught up with GM's numbers in the US, and GM is on the verge of bankruptcy.
    Times change, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Hyundai as a sales leader in the next 10 years. They're making progress faster than the Japanese did in this country.

    Yes, but look at how far behind GM already was ten years ago. GM wasn't leading quality or reliability. (or design and engineering, for that matter, that was the Europeans). I'm not saying Hyundai won't be a force to reckon with, I just think (again, this is just my little brain) that in ten years maybe Hyundai will be what Toyota was in the late 1990s; a big player in the market, but not one of the dominant three. I think GM is TRYING to move in the right direction, and Chrysler has had a great turnaround lately, but Ford leaves me nervous with its lackluster Mercury and Lincoln brands.

    I'm thinking of this type of hypothetical look in 2016:

    1. GM - Toyota running neck and neck
    2. Chrysler a strong number two (assuming quality issues are getting resolved now)
    3. Nissan (has more financial capital than Honda, but near-equals in engineering
    4. Honda
    5. Hyundai

    **NOTE: This is just an 18 year old's musings...not an official estimate.
  • jhinscjhinsc Member Posts: 399
    Hyundai made a huge leap forward with the Sonata and Azera.

    The Sonata's exterior styling is good, and matches the current Honda's and Toyota's best today. The problem being though, Toyota just revamped the Camry and Honda will do so with the Accord in model year 2008. The Sonata's interior looks like something GM came up with, which is why I crossed it off my list. The seats were not as comfortable as the Accord's and the overall interior scheme came across as a little bland. A bland interior and lack of seat comfort is also a problem with the Camry.

    The Azera is very good IMO, but it's lacking a few bells and whistles that you can find on the Avalon. The mpg's is not as good, and the crash test results were a little disappointing. It's exterior styling is not what I would call leading edge, but it's okay. But I did think the interior was gorgeous!

    I don't believe Hyundai will be able to keep as wide a price advantage for very long because they're shifting production over here, where Toyota and Honda have been building for awhile now. Also, Honda and Toyota will certainly not take this threat lying down. They will be as innovative and flexible as possible to keep ahead of any competitor out there, including GM, Ford, and Hyundai, not to mention any new Chinese automakers that want a piece of the auto market. I bought an 06 Accord for it's overall style, value, and comfort, but I look forward to what Hyundai will bring us in the future. :shades:
  • bobadbobad Member Posts: 1,587
    They will be as innovative and flexible as possible to keep ahead of any competitor out there
    ----------------------------------

    Agreed, but not if they let the bread box styling from their new division bleed over. Toyota's styling department needs a little new blood. Just a little to keep from going stagnant or weird. If their styling sucks, it doesn't matter how great their quality is. Honda had better watch it too. Their pickup truck looks like an Isuzu.
  • kwonc71kwonc71 Member Posts: 245
    Last month sales shows Sonata sold about half of Camry sold. Half of the most selling car. Most of Sonata sold were GLS or LX. You still think Hyundai is not taking Toyota's sales away? For the price of V6 Sonata, people could get LE Camry or LX Accord. I bet you that by this summer, Honda and Toyota marketing main staffs will have serious meetings about how to not to lose sale to Hyundai.
  • jhinscjhinsc Member Posts: 399
    Agreed, but not if they let the bread box styling from their new division bleed over. Toyota's styling department needs a little new blood. Just a little to keep from going stagnant or weird. If their styling sucks, it doesn't matter how great their quality is. Honda had better watch it too. Their pickup truck looks like an Isuzu.

    I would have to agree there too. I look forward to Honda's restyle of the Ridgeline into something a little sleeker looking, rather than the blob of metal it currently looks like. Same goes for Toyota's upcoming new Tundra, it looks weird! :shades:
  • jhinscjhinsc Member Posts: 399
    I bet you that by this summer, Honda and Toyota marketing main staffs will have serious meetings about how to not to lose sale to Hyundai.

    The markets have a way leveling the playing field, and sooner or later, Toyota and Honda will try to do just that. Poor GM, they keep trying, but can't even find the playing field to begin with, and Ford has been attempting to do great things lately, but still keep coming up short.
  • kwonc71kwonc71 Member Posts: 245
    Last month sales shows Sonata sold about half of Camry sold. Half of the most selling car. Most of Sonata sold were GLS or LX. You still think Hyundai is not taking Toyota's sales away? For the price of V6 Sonata, people could get LE Camry or LX Accord. I bet you that by this summer, Honda and Toyota marketing main staffs will have serious meetings about "How to not to lose more sales to Hyundai anymore". As a Korean, I know Hyundai will get what they want. Just watched the tv program about Hyundai developing new engine on the 06 Sonatas. Most of engineers slept 4 hours to 5 hours a day, 7 days week. Took them 15 years to develop first engine from scratch. Another 5 years to develop new 2.4L and 3.3L. Now, Korea is one of only 6 country has their own engine in the whole world. When Hyundai asked Chrysler to check out their new engine to sell loyalty, several Chrysler engineers spent weeks to study about it. At the end of report back to Chrysler's headquarters, an engineer wrote " Even Mercedes can't make the engine like this one". That's Y Hyundai's engine called the World Engine that Chrysler and Mitsu buy nowadays. It could be way cheaper and easier to buy engines from other company like Ford does now. They would not take short cut, so they know about their own engines, so they can solve the problems quickly as possible. Early 80's Hyundai using Mitsu engine and Transmission gave them enough damage that needed 20+ years to recover. I am confident.
  • jhinscjhinsc Member Posts: 399
    Hyundai just needs to work on their fuel efficiency, then they'll be the one's to beat!
  • giantkillergiantkiller Member Posts: 273
    This is what I call "pipe dream". Honda and Toyota will have a meeting on how not to lose market share to Hyundai you say? LOLROTF! If you know your numbers go look at the market share. Honda and Toyota are not losing market share to anybody, they are gaining.
    Even Mercedes can't make and engine like the one Hyundai did you say? Are you kidding me? Hyundai made one good engine (3.3L) and all of a sudden they're the best out there as far as engine tech goes. LOLROTF!

    And then you blamed Mitsubishi for doing Hyundai a good favor? I dont think you would even have a car industry if it wasnt for Mitsubishi. Hey, I was born and raised somewhere in Asia and have been exposed to Hyundai and mitsubishi in the 80's. For your information, the problem of Hyundai back then was not the powertrain but the build quality. Their cars back then was somewhat built by a backyard manufacturer who uses hammer and metal scissor to build body parts. Suspension, exterior body, interior are so horribly done you wouldnt waste you money on, thats Hyundai. As a korean you should be ashamed of yourself. The whole foundation of your engine technology was given by Mitsubishi. They gave Hyundai the rights to copy and manufacture their engine. Ingrate.
  • giantkillergiantkiller Member Posts: 273
    I dont have to read your post again. You can feed your hearsay and nonsense to Hyundai people but not me. Been there done that.
  • kwonc71kwonc71 Member Posts: 245
    Read my post again, that's what an American engineer wrote on his report back to Chrysler's headquarters. Hyundai built 2.4L engine first then 3.3L. I am talking with the fact, you talking with anger for no reason. It's funny you got upset with my post and took it as personal matter. You sounds like a Mitsu ship maker who lost the job because Hyundai eating up their business. I understand, Mitsu was #1 heavy duty ship builder a decade ago, now it's half size of Hyundais. Hyundai also sell more cars than Mitsu. I feel your pain too. :P Come down my friend. You don't have to argue now because the time will tell.
  • giantkillergiantkiller Member Posts: 273
    You crack me up! Oh well, good thing you're not a Nissan fan. I'm beginning to like Mitsubishi because of you. Oh by the way , how was Hyundai at WRC? Still eating dust? If your Hyundai so great, maybe they could challenge Mercedes, BMW, Honda, Ferrari, Renault, Toyota at F1. Well if what your're saying is true, that a Chrysler engineer, which is basically a Mercedes engineer commented that eve Mercedes can't make an engine as good as Hyundai by all means compete in one of these races and showcase youre technologies. The only race that Hyundai can win is the race to depreciation and low price. I know the game theyre playing. Keep the price down, give long warranties , nevermind the profit. We'll atract customers and hopefully keep them, then later on increase the price. Give predictions that theyre gonna catch up and overtake Toyota. Two things that differentiate Toyota today and GM in the 70's. GM was sleeping on the job back then. Toyota is on its toes today. In fact they are continuosly improving. Lots of cash lots of good product, and selling well for a profit. Lets see now whose gonna be selling cookware 10 years from now.
  • fsowirlesfsowirles Member Posts: 195
    For your information, the problem of Hyundai back then was not the powertrain but the build quality. Their cars back then was somewhat built by a backyard manufacturer who uses hammer and metal scissor to build body parts. Suspension, exterior body, interior are so horribly done you wouldnt waste you money on, thats Hyundai.

    Anyone rememebr the movie 'Gung-Ho' with Michael Keaton? :P
  • meateatermeateater Member Posts: 123
    I know the game theyre playing. Keep the price down, give long warranties , nevermind the profit

    Its apparent that Hyundai is doing this. Would you buy one if they were prices the same as the CamCord's?

    The people in SK bear the brunt of a highly subsidized, government controlled company like Hyundai, where the success of the compant in tantamount to the success of the country. If Hyundai suffers, the country suffers. Back to eating dogs and cats.
  • goodegggoodegg Member Posts: 905
    Its apparent that Hyundai is doing this

    It is apparent that Hyundai is lowballing, but that's what the customer wants! By selling a customer their car they keep Toyota/Honda/Nissan etc from getting that sale. If the Sonata was priced where the CamCord is yes, they wouldn't sell as many. I don't think Hyundai's 'profit' is measured the same as the other car companies since the company is very closely held by the South Korean government.

    But I think the car market is ever changing, and what works today may be folly in 6 years. Look at SUVs. Hyundai's lack of hybrids could really hurt them, especially with $6/gallon gas.
  • bobadbobad Member Posts: 1,587
    Giantkiller: You obviously haven't driven or even examined a Sonata. I have never seen such body panel fit. Not in Mercedes, not in any other car I have examined. The panel lines are about 3/32" (if that!), and don't vary by more than .005". Slide under the car, and you see state-of-the-art multi-link suspension. The 3.3 V6 runs like a fine watch, cradled in hydraulic mounts. I have to check the instrument cluster to see if it's running, because I certainly can't hear or feel it idling. Making a quick runup from 0-80 mph is a pure joy. The engine is strong, gutsy, and has a sweet growl above 4000 RPM. Go treat yourself man. Go drive one, and I think your opinions will change... or at least have some credibility. Toyota is worried, by their own admission.
  • bobadbobad Member Posts: 1,587
    It is apparent that Hyundai is lowballing,

    I don't think you understand. Hyundai has a spanking-new $1 billion assembly plant down in Alabama. This plant is probably the most automated and most efficient in the entire world. Hyundai is probably making just as much profit (or maybe more!) than their competitors.

    I think Hyundai knew they couldn't compete with Toyota on their terms. So, they figured out how to build a car with the same quality and features as Toyota, at a $4000-$6000 lower price. They were so confident they could do it they spent ~$2 billion to develop and assemble the Sonata.
  • kwonc71kwonc71 Member Posts: 245
    Check out that giantkiller's posts. 100% of his post were anti, negative, and cursing Hyundai. He either work for a Toyota dealership or just a Japanese who can't stand Japan losing business to Korea in many field. He will never buy or even test drive Hyundai because Hyundai makes him sick. We have to name him "HYUNDAI KILLER" instead. He should kill his anger first too.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Hyundai just needs to work on their fuel efficiency, then they'll be the one's to beat!

    Sonata I4 manual: 24/34
    Sonata I4 automatic: 24/33
    Sonata V6 automatic: 20/30

    Accord I4 manual: 26/34
    Accord I4 automatic: 24/34
    Accord V6 automatic: 20/29

    Camry I4 manual: 24/34
    Camry I4 automatic: 24/33
    Camry V6 automatic: 22/31

    It looks to me that Hyundai is fully competitive in fuel economy in the mid-sized sedan class, which we are discussing here. Where Honda and Toyota currently have an advantage is that they offer 5-speed automatics (vs. 4) on their I4s and the Camry has a 6-speed automatic (vs. 5) on the V6; those should be good for additional fuel economy, but as you can see, the Sonata manages to match or come very close to the Camcord in fuel economy even with the disparity in gearing.
  • bobadbobad Member Posts: 1,587
    It looks to me that Hyundai is fully competitive in fuel economy in the mid-sized sedan class, which we are discussing here.
    -------------------------

    Even if the Sonata's mileage was 2-3 MPG lower, it's also $5000 cheaper to buy. You can buy a lot of miles for $5000! ;)
  • fsowirlesfsowirles Member Posts: 195
    The Sonata is a decent vehicle, and a good value...but be real. Best panel fit of any make....you must not get out much (or sell Hyundai). My neighbor (as I said before) has a new Sonata and I have had the opportunity to drive and examine up close. I was impressed for Hyundai, but it is no BMW or MB. It isn't even VW/AUDI good on fit/finish. They are a top performer in the fit/finish category for thier segment, but don't exagerrate as muhc as you did.

    And as for the engine. It is smooth, but far from so quiet that you need to check the guage cluster to see if it is running. It is also far from gutsy. I think it was Consumer Reports that dinged them for not having enough pep in the V6 and the handlign was far from nimble.

    So to summarize...It is decent, even good....but let's not lose our heads here ;)
  • lightfootfllightfootfl Member Posts: 442
    W H A T ????? Lack of pep ??? Handling not nimble ??
    Hey, try it, you'll like it.
    Don't let others influence what you can find out first hand. Also, the finish and fit is better than a lot of the others on the road.
  • goodegggoodegg Member Posts: 905
    So spending $1 billion on an assembly plant makes them cost efficient? OK but who's paying for the plant? SK gov't? We'll never know. And we'll never know Hyundai's true profit. Same with anything Chinese. Like they'd disclose real financial data. But who cares?
  • goodegggoodegg Member Posts: 905
    Brother - go drive other cars. Most have great engines and suspension, or even minimal 'panel gaps'. These are givens in today's vehicles. What's not a given is a hard earned reputation of quality and reliability that Honda and Toyota have earned over many years. The Sonata's not the space shuttle or something.
  • pocono35pocono35 Member Posts: 89
    Their cars back then was somewhat built by a backyard manufacturer who uses hammer and metal scissor to build body parts. Suspension, exterior body, interior are so horribly done you wouldnt waste you money on, thats Hyundai

    I disagree with these comments and have 5 ownership experiences with Hyundai (4 with a Sonata and 1 Elantra wagon) to dispute, no doubt, a non-ownership experience:

    1990 Sonata: Drove it 150,000 km. Major Issues: an electrical issue solved and replacement of a catyalitic converter all under warranty. This was the first Sonata built and was far more reliable than many 'critics' reported. I believe MotorTrend had this car on one of their covers in 1989 and were lauding it for its value due to room, build quality and engineering. Hyundai used Mitsu designed engines and trannies then.

    1992 Sonata: Drove it 190,000kms Major issues: none.

    1995 Sonata: Still on road in Canada with 300,000kms. Major issues: Tranny replaced under warranty at 170,000kms(Hyundai offered a 5 year unlimited mileage warranty in Canada on this car, like Europe) and head gasket issue at 250,000 miles.

    I am quite sure, now having owned a Maxima and Pilot that these early Hyundai's had some early issues that young car makers face, largely due to weeding out vendors and eliminating some inferior Mitsu powertrain components. I will dispute the 'hammer and scissor' comments however as purely ignorant of any real experience or knowledge.

    My Dad's ownership experience with a 2002 Sonata was nearly perfect. He ONLY replaced rear bushings, under warranty, and drove it 85,000 miles.

    My brother, a doctoral student in Lexington, KY, drives a 1998 Elantra Wagon. He has nearly 200,000 miles on it and has replaced a sensor and rear struts on the hatch. He recently told me that this is a better car than his previous Toyota Tercel in durability and reliabilty and far better than his wifes Saturn, with 70,000 miles, that is 'falling apart'.

    Reasonable people who understand the automotive market understand Hyundai/Kia couldn't put nearly 800,000 cars on the road with this warranty if they were fixing them regularly. Also, recent reports from Hyundai indicated a huge savings on warranty claims due to lower than anticipated claims.
  • bobadbobad Member Posts: 1,587
    So spending $1 billion on an assembly plant makes them cost efficient? OK but who's paying for the plant? SK gov't? We'll never know. And we'll never know Hyundai's true profit. Same with anything Chinese. Like they'd disclose real financial data. But who cares?
    ----------------

    Excuse me, I thought we were comparing cars, not counting beans. I absolutely couldn't care less about who pays for what. What really matters is that my car was a great buy, a great car, and more of my money stayed in the USA than my 2nd choice, the Mazda6 Ford Fusion. ;)
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