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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

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Comments

  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    I spend time on Accord forums, and they do have problems. But I would say 95% of the problems stem from 1.owner modifications done to the car (aftermarket crap), 2.abuse (it's amazing what some do to their own cars, or mom's car, for that matter), or 3.a total lack of maintenance. Yes, you can break something, if you try hard enough.
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    I'd say both Accords and Sonatas are, for the most part, reliable cars (I'll go as far as to say they are two of the most reliable cars out there). While some owners will find their cars perfect throughout the ownership, others will have problems, literally from day one. The fact remains, perfection does not exists in any model. Accords and Sonatas are no exceptions but problems in those models exist less often than average.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,601
    Elroy, please see post 3921.

    I guess opinions like yours are exactly what kingsalmon had in mind.

    It's also interesting to note that the first article I saw about the ratings headlined that Toyota lead the pack. Way down in the story it mentioned that "sleeper" Hyundai finished 3rd in name badges. Toyota did lead the pack with 11 of 19 categories when combined with Lexus results. Of course Lexus finished 2nd, right behind Porsche and Toyota was only slightly behind Hyundai. Honda was only 2 places and only a few "points" behind Toyota.

    They survey shows that they are all good quality cars. Also, the survey said Hyundai finished in the mid-20's ranking until 2003 when it made huge a leap up.

    With Toyota & Honda being so near the top, are you implying that their initial quality survey means they will have long term reliability problems. [Of course this survey was conducted months ago pitting brand new Hyundai models, Sonata & Azera in the mix, against established Toyota & Honda models before the '07 Camry with its tranny problems was introduced.]

    The point of my post regarding the J D Power survey is that Sonata is in the top range in its class and has been for 3 or more years. All these non-luxury, family cars are good and none should be overlooked by someone considering a new car purchase. And uninformed people should not continually bash any make/model based on a brand's vehicle(s) of many years ago.
  • njeraldnjerald Member Posts: 689
    Here are 5 posts from the last page of a Newer Accord forum (none are from mods):

    1. I also recently bought a 2006 Accord with automatic V6 engine and have found that the shifting of the transmission is fairly noticeable and annoying at around 20 to 25 mph both when letting off the accelerator and when gradually applying the accelerator. If I accelerate moderately (or strongly), it's not as noticeable.

    I have also noticed a vibration in the gas pedal at lower city speeds and a pull to the left when driving over 40 mph.

    Anyone have ideas as to if these are common problems?
    Seems to me from my OWN experience, with an '05 bought in August, and reading stuff here, that IT IS COMMON.

    2. It seems that Honda has ALWAYS had issues with its transmission. It's been ALWAYS shifting more roughly than some other cars (its archrival Camry, for instance), though comparing my new '05 to my old '95 (both V6), there is quite an improvement...

    And yes, I have also noticed some slight vibration at low speed, sometimes....

    Pull to the left? That needs to be addressed by your dealer. But before that, have you checked your tires' air pressure?

    3. I have a 04 Accord Ex with a CD Changer in the dash.The lighting for the radio and heater controls has failed and Honda says the radio must be replaced for $650. The radio and heater still work. The car is 2 years old with 65000 miles. Any suggestions?

    4. I own a 05 Accord EX-V6. Seems like since the weather in jersey has been getting colder, the radio has been running very sluggish. When I'm flipping channels on the XM (which is great) and the radio, it moves very slowly through the channels and when the volume is increased. Did I get a junky battery or are other people noticing this problem?? In my old 00 EX-V6 I ran a 600 watt amp and never had a problem with the stock battery in any weather condition. Seems very strange to have this issue in a new car. Anyone have any input on this issue or have the same problem? I just don't want this problem to get worse and my car not starting or electrical issues.

    5. I also just purchased a 2006 SE V6 ( for wife ) and noticed the rough downshift.....it feels as the brakes are on when decelerating not running freely.
    According to the dealer that is normal for that tranny.
    No vibration on my yet ?!
    Also, car is pulling to the right and I am sure it is the crap Michelins Pilot HX MXM4....dealer is checking the wheel alignment this week and if that is not the problem he will replace the tires.
    Other then this the car is great....very quiet....solid....no squeaks or rattles.
    HP overrated at 244 HP.....my 330i feels so much faster !.....I know, I know it is the torque !

    Nice try, though!!!!
  • w9cww9cw Member Posts: 888
    If you've driven your Accord for 12 years and 180K, and only spent $1K on repairs, it appears that you have scrimped on routine preventive maintenance which makes this an even more impressive stat. Routine replacement of the Accord's timing belt must make up some, or most, of that figure.

    Although preventive maintenace, including the replacement of the timing belt, may not be viewed as a repair, in reality it is. A repair is anytime you open up an engine, or any component, to replace specific worn, or failed, parts or sub-assemblies.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    when you are driving, do you think about side airbags?

    As many redlight-runners that i see everyday driving to work/school, i certainly do!
  • wolverinejoe80wolverinejoe80 Member Posts: 337
    beating toyota and honda? that's amazing. hyundai will gain more respect when the new santa and elantra comes out. hyundai is charging very hard, and honyota should beware.
  • bobadbobad Member Posts: 1,587
    Wow, JD Powers found good results for Hyundai. Too bad that they lose a bunch of credibility by giving glowing reccomendations for such cars as the Malibu and the Alero, both of which have been ranked ahead of Sonata in the last few years by JD (which is a joke), I'd take a Sonata (even the small old model) over a Malibu or Alero ANYDAY!

    Woa, back up a minute! :):):)

    JD Power is similar to other polling companies like Gallup, Zogby, Harris, Pugh, NY Times-ABC, ETC. If Gallup takes a poll of 1000 people and asks them what their favorite dessert is, does their poll results have to agree with your favorite dessert? JD Power is just the messenger. The car owners are the ones reporting such things as visits to the dealer, satisfaction, and dissatisfaction with their car. If Hyundai owners say they are happy, I think it's unfair to besmirch the credibility of JD Power. The Hyundai owners, however are another matter. Shame on them saying they are happy with their purchase. They have no right! :D
  • andy82471andy82471 Member Posts: 120
    I personally think Consumer Reports is a more reliable source for long term reliability. I personally find JD Powers sampling method highly suspicious and the fact that they accept advertising.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,147
    > I personally find JD Powers sampling method highly suspicious and the fact that they accept advertising.

    Do you find your doctor's diagnoses suspicious? You pay him for his collected information. Do you think Chrysler wants the info from JD Powers to not include negatives JD has learned along with positives? That's the only way to learn what's to be improved when it's a customer problem--sort of like taking out a cancer in your kidney? Or would you rather your doctor didn't give you the whole information so you could keep selling cars with something the customers really are having problems with?...

    What advertising does JD Powers accept. The companies purchase the rights to publicize their awards in advertising paid for by companies. JD Powers doesn't put ads on TV for Toyota, e.g.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    Top 10 Automakers Worldwide

    Ranking Automaker 2005 Global Sales

    1 General Motors 8,381,805
    2 Toyota Motor Corp. 8,120,000
    3 Ford Motor Co. 6,208,700
    4 Volkswagen AG 5,242,793
    5 DaimlerChrysler AG 4,854,700
    6 Hyundai-Kia Group 3,715,095
    7 Nissan Motor Co. 3,597,748
    8 PSA/Peugeot-Citroen SA 3,390,000
    9 Honda Motor Co. 3,365,000
    10 Renault SA 2,533,428

    http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006/06/08/010402.html
  • andy82471andy82471 Member Posts: 120
    Wow Toyota has almost caught up with the General. Ford is a distant third.
  • andy82471andy82471 Member Posts: 120
    Yes, if that doctor is JD POWERS. On the other hand I have a lot more faith in CR's diagnosis.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Once again, I think we are closer in thought than we think...I'm saying JD Power doesnt give Hyundai enough credit, once putting it behind Malibu and Alero? Thats a shame!
  • bobadbobad Member Posts: 1,587
    I'm saying JD Power doesnt give Hyundai enough credit...

    And I'm saying that JD Power is only reporting owner experiences. Don't shoot the messenger.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,147
    >have a lot more faith in CR's diagnosis.

    Then you don't trust CR also. You might have noted a plethora of CR-based reports on your local news TV station through the last few years. CR sells those to the local stations. It's cheaper than finding someone locally to do the actual study. They get paid for those-but they don't accept advertising, they say. Having the local TV station give the Consumer Reports story on washing machines with a local reporter doing some voiceovers and face-ins and getting paid for those is advertising, otherwise they wouldn't have to credit CR in the leadups and during the story.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    "Looking for opinions you may have after taking a test drive of a Camry, Accord, Sonata, Azera,Mazda6, Fusion, Impala or Lucerne. Anyone done a recent comparison of several cars in one day to see how they compared?
    -Loren
    Yes! When I went to purchase my Fusion the Ford salesperson was so confident in the Fusions build quality/fit/finish he actually took me to both a Honda and Toyota lot to compare side by side. I purchased from one of the "Mega dealers" that offered about 6 car brands.
    Nice experience
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Ok, maybe, but with the huge exception that the news stations aren't PRODUCING the products being tested. Doesn't really seem like the conflict of interest you're trying to portray...

    ~alpha
  • booyahcramerbooyahcramer Member Posts: 172
    The Sonata wishes it could hang in the reliability air that Accord enjoys. If it could, Hyundai wouldn't have to use the giveaway pricing it needs to sell the car in decent numbers.
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    I fail to understand your reasoning to state Hyundai is giving its cars away. I further fail to understand your knock on the Sonata, regarding its reliablity record way below the standard of the Accord.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Member Posts: 1,565
    Maybe it's not that Hyundai is giving its cars away, instead maybe Honda is charging to much? ;)

    Personally, I always wonder why people immediately assume because a vehicle is less expensive, it is inferior somehow.

    My rating of the midsizers for value (most bang for the buck):

    1. Sonata
    2. Fusion
    3. Accord
    4. Camry
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    The Sonata wishes it could hang in the reliability air [emphasis mine] that Accord enjoys.

    I think that is a true statement. The main problem the Sonata faces now is public perception. Hence Hyundai's efforts to get people to compare the Sonata with Accord and Camry, then reel them in with low prices.
  • bobadbobad Member Posts: 1,587
    I agree Sonata officials wish they could hang with Accord reliability. They are trying so hard I think their wish will be granted... maybe sooner than later, so stay tuned! For those that may not know, Hyundai built the most automated plant in America so that Sonata could undercut Accord and Camry's prices by $5K. Because of the ultra-modern plant, I'm certain that Hyundai is still making a handsome profit on the Sonata. Although A&C cost a little more to make in older style plants, they are still making obscene profits compared to Sonata. America's love affair with the automobile never ceases to amaze me. People line up around the block for "airs", and the privelege of paying more. :D
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Do you factor safety into the equation? Are you going by MSRP or selling price? Which trim lines are you talking about?

    ~alpha
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    "For those that may not know, Hyundai built the most automated plant in America so that Sonata could undercut Accord and Camry's prices by $5K. Because of the ultra-modern plant, I'm certain that Hyundai is still making a handsome profit on the Sonata."

    Really? I think thats a big leap of faith assumption. $24,995 LXs leaving the Hyundai doors under $19K? The sales volume from Jan 06 through end of Mar 06 at 30% fleet (discounted) sales, and who knows where it stands for Q2? No doubt, there's some profit... but handsome?

    ~alpha
  • aburdaburd Member Posts: 23
    Admittedly the car.com site is new to me, but they seem to do a comprehensive evaluation. But I'm surprised at the negative tone of their review. Though there were lots of compliments on the V6--even for the transmission-- it was surprising to read comments such as these 2007 Camry Driving Impressions
    .....
    Spend a few minutes in the 2007 Camry, and you’d swear that Toyota builds a better Buick than Buick. Unlike the relatively sporty Honda Accord, this Japanese-branded family sedan offers negligible amounts of road feel, rides on a pillowy suspension, and features over-boosted steering at all speeds. Those characteristics are fine for around town, and to some degree even appreciated, but it all translates to a ponderous cruise on the freeway.
    .....
    There did seem to be a lot of tire noise in the cabin that I didn’t expect to hear on a car of this caliber but wind noise was minimal.

    ......

    The biggest disappointment was the lack of a luxurious feel and the low quality craftsmanship that is apparent.
    ......

    Though our XLE-trimmed test car wasn’t entirely engaging, neither was it entirely boring. What more should a Camry deliver?

    Quiet, for one, and our Camry was not quiet inside. At idle, valvetrain noise gets into the cabin, and once underway, the engine exhibits a whine not unlike that of a General Motors V6. Refinement doesn’t seem to be a strong point with this engine. Add in the irritating wind noise that seems to be coming from the windshield wiper arms, and the significant road rumble coming up through the floor, and the Camry is much louder inside than expected.
    .....

    From the Quality evaluation section:

    No car with a $31,000 price tag, regardless of whether it’s a Chevy or a Toyota, should exhibit the kind of quality issues we found with our 2007 Camry XLE V6 tester. Among the points most notable were irregular gaps on the sides of the dash; a dash cap that was lifting by the side vents; sections around the instrument panel that were not flush; inconsistent gaps around the glovebox and the cubby forward of the shifter; loose pillar covers; a squeaky shifter plate cover; open spaces between the rear door plastic panels and the leather inserts; multiple grain patterns throughout the cabin; and a fuzzy headliner in lieu of preferred mesh. To its credit, this Camry featured soft leather, a light-colored wood that only I seemed to appreciate, and soft plastic on the dash.

    .....

    They seem to prefer the new Hyundai or Honda overall, per the Advice section:

    Toyota is not invincible. After two decades of progressively better Camrys, the company stumbles with the 2007 redesign. This car, with the exception of a driver’s seat that accommodates my comfort needs and an appreciated fine-tuning of the mechanicals, is not an improvement over the one it replaces. Sure, it’s more powerful and a more pleasing car to drive, but it’s less refined and the quality of construction and materials is disappointing, especially on the $31,000 XLE V6 version we drove for a week.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Interestingly polar opposite to the Edmunds.com comparison test. Refinement not a strong point for the V6 is the FIRST time I've EVER heard that complaint logged against this engine family, in any iteration.

    ~alpha
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Sometimes I think reviewers set out to light a fire with a review. For example, I read a scathing review of the Kia Sedona in the LA Times the other day. It was a 180 from every other professional review I've read on that van. It's also possible that this reviewer got a "lemon", although that is unlikely if it was one of the cars that Toyota provides for reviews.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Member Posts: 1,565
    I am going by selling price, with models as close as comparably equipped as can be done.

    Yes, you can argue safety till you are blue in the face, agree Fusion drops below the others on IIHS front and side test, but Fusion side test was not with side airbags, so the jury is out on that data point until they retest with side air bags. All of these contenders can be had with side air bags, and ABS, traction control. About the only thing missing might be the various iterations of skid control, which admittedly Fusion does not have available at the present time, however this feature could be arguably not all that important for sedans which are much more stable than SUV's.

    I doubt anyone will argue that Sonata has a definite price advantage comparably equipped over all the other three.

    Fusion can be gotten at least $1K-2K less than equivalent Accord or Camry. I have compared the lowest level V-6's here, and added ABS for Fusion and come up with at least $1K differential between CAMCORD and Fusion.

    One of our local dealer about a month ago had V-6 Fusions for sale in the $19-20K price range-with no dickering required, these were posted prices for individual models in stock. (TTL not included which varies by different regions). I really doubt you could find any new Camcord V-6 much less than $21K and more likely you would have to get up to $22K.

    You want to convince yourself? For starters go to Edmunds and price out MSRP, Invoice and TMV yourself.
  • ace35ace35 Member Posts: 131
    I really doubt you could find any new Camcord V-6 much less than $21K and more likely you would have to get up to $22K.

    Why would cam/cord's have to sell at that price. With over 400,000 sales annually, those vehicles dont seem to have a problem moving off the lots at there advertised price. While i feel like the fusion is a nice vehicle, ford cannot just build a nice vehicle right now, ford needs a knockout, you cannot omit, ESC, std SAB, std ABS, those are requeqisites of the class these days. (Even cam/cords come with std curtains, and abs which they dont have to, but they do) The midsize arena is flooded with entries but, most are new comers and unless you bring something to catch the consumer's eye, they're probably gonna head right for the cam/cords. Now Hyundai, gives you a good reason to cross shop w/ camcords because you get so much for your money you really cant ignore it. Ford/Gm need to adapt the same strategy.
  • jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    If I'm shopping based on price points, I'd get the following cars:

    $28,000: Camry V6 XLE, Fully loaded
    $24,000: Accord EX V6, Non-Navi
    $19,000: Sonata LX V6

    These are all great choices and we should be glad that we have such a range to choose from.
  • tinatinatinatina Member Posts: 388
    I have not read any bad things about engine noise - it would appear that the Camry is the quitest of the lot. I wonder if that noise relates to some posters on the Avalon thread reporting noisy engines/problems-but that is just speculation.

    I have read several articles on fit and finish issues with the new Camry's interior, especially in the lower trim levels. Its cloth interior and dash look cheaper than the equivalent Accord in my opinion. However, its a big improvement over the previous version, which looked really cheap when I tested a 2004 Camry LE 4. (The lack of 5 speed at the time and cheap interior is why I bought a 2004 Accord). I think that this is may be a problem that people will experience when a new model is introduced and they compare it to the previous model across the board. It seems that the materials/fabric/seals/ are cheapened from the old or previous model to the current in order to cut costs by a manufacturer.

    I passed by the new Hyundai dealership, and they really don't have any vehicles on their main lot at least. The Azera did look pretty sharp though.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    In my opinion, the cloth interior of Camry LE, and especially the special fabric on the XLE 4, are superior to the cloth interiors on the Accords. Great, we each have our opinions.

    Which other reviews are you referencing that speak to negative fit and finish on the Camry interior? I have not read any others, though in its upcoming review, CR will ding the Camry interior grab handles- but not for fit and finish, instead, materials quality- and on that point I concur- the shape of the interior door handle is such that one can easily feel the moldline/flashing. Otherwise, the interior is attractive and well finished, IMO. One coworker commented on the "Snazzy" center stack lighting at nighttime (I begged and pleaded Avis at ORD to give me one of the few Camry SE 4s they had just received... I was the first renter of the car.. it had 6 miles on it, now has about 180)....

    "I passed by the new Hyundai dealership, and they really don't have any vehicles on their main lot at least." Im not sure I understand your point?

    ~alpha
  • tinatinatinatina Member Posts: 388
    You just answered your own question - the issue you cited is a "fit and finish issue" (quality of the grab handles being poor?)with the Camry interior (at least in the eyes of that reviewer in the article you cited). I also read a Detroit Free Press Article about the poor interior (in that reviewer's opinion) as well as in the dedicated Camry thread whereby several have noted issues with the interior. So, there are concerns and reviews by some professionals and non-professionals about the new Camry's interior. Just because you have not read those articles does not make it so, nor is this a widespread problem, and some of it could just be nitpicking, or a matter of personal preference, which is not a deficiency or a lack of quality issue.

    Unfortunately, you can not objectively compare an XLE to an LX Accord's interior - that's absurd and it is not a fair comparison. (I have always said that the upper level Camry's with leather interior- look much nicer than the Accord's leather interior and the V-6 is better than the Accord's V-6 - but this is just my opinion and I at least compared the equivalent models). But you are entitled to your own opinion as I am. I have owned/operated both vehicles in question unlike others (not you) -so I stand by my comments about the Camry LE's interior when comparing to my Accord LX's interior.

    Sorry for the last sentence, the new Hyundai dealership in my area had few cars on their main lot. They may have had vehicles in a storage lot away from their main lot. The Azera does look quite nice, but too big for my needs.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    With respect to CR, I was referencing a materials choice by Toyota... and I agree with CR on that criticism. However, this does not affect the way the materials fit together.

    The Detroit Free Press knocked a Toyota? Honestly, this is the other article you're citing? Thats like saying the Pepsi Times doesn't like Diet Coke with Lime.... its kind of expected.

    The only time I mentioned the Camry XLE (4), I did not specifically put it against the Accord LX. However, since the LX and EX use the same cloth interior, I don't see how that would be invalid.

    ~alpha
  • tinatinatinatina Member Posts: 388
    Fit and finish is included under that element. You and CR have issues with the finish of the materials used by Toyota. Thanks, I will take a look at that issue when I re-test the Camry.

    Thanks for clariying your post on what models you were/were not comparing. But you are wrong, the LX and EX Accords use different cloth seat fabric as detailed in the 2006 Accord brochure and the dedicated honda website. Specifically, the seat fabrics are the same on the VP, LX, and LX V-6 lines. However, on the EX trim levels, the cloth seat fabrics are "upgraded" and they are not the same. Thus, your statement that the seats on the LX and EX models are the same is not correct.
  • aburdaburd Member Posts: 23
    The car.com Camry review's Quality section has a somewhat shocking blow-by-blow summary of fit and finish issues of their '07 XLE (presented from three different author's viewpoints, but similar in tone). Choice of materials also came under fire, mainly considering the price point of the car they tested.

    It seems likely to me that these are representative only of that sample, but it makes for a sobering read.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    "Maybe it's not that Hyundai is giving its cars away, instead maybe Honda is charging to much?

    Good point!! ;)

    As consumers start to realize they don't have to pay, pay and pay for a quality built, reliable vehicle some may stop and think about this... :surprise: Did I pay too much!?? for my Honda/Toyota?
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    I stand corrected on the 2006, however, I will further clarify. My former sig other's 2005 Accord EX 4 cylinder coupe 5M built at the Marysville plant has, in my opinion, seat cloth that is Inferior to that of the 2007 Camry LE's, or the Fraichair treated XLE's.

    Thank you for the correction.
    ~alpha
  • goodegggoodegg Member Posts: 905
    I think that is a true statement. The main problem the Sonata faces now is public perception

    Exactly. And when Hyundai's offerings can be thought of in the general public's eye as comparable to the Honda Accord, Hyundai will be in for a windfall, either by being able to charge more or by selling at lot more cars.

    The best laid plans can be derailed in today's cutthroat economy. Who knows how well the 08 Accord will debut and if the 06 Sonata will hold up through the next few years.
  • tinatinatinatina Member Posts: 388
    No problemo, the same difference in the seat fabric actually has been since the new model. Again, you are entitled to your opinion, but there are differing opinions on this thread and the dedicated Camry thread. Its not just the seats though, its the quality of the plastics, seat comfort, the layout of the dash, knobs, switches, etc. which make the Camry LE inferior to an Accord LX in my opinion.

    I would also go into comparing the 4 cylinder and tranny of the Accord to the Camry, but why start another discussion. As a note, the style on the Camry, I've begun to like more and more. (I may be picking up an LE one of these days in the near future).
  • choe13choe13 Member Posts: 348
    "The Sonata wishes it could hang in the reliability air that Accord enjoys. If it could, Hyundai wouldn't have to use the giveaway pricing it needs to sell the car in decent numbers."

    nothing personal but please do resort to some economics and marketing texts.

    Why is hyundai doing this?? 2 obvious reasons 1) meet and exceed sale goals(corporation business objectives) 2) The sonata is hyundais most important and sacrifice car right now. It does not need this car in terms for profits in a way it needs it more to expose hyundais face to the public to redeem itself again(that is by having it in the streets, owners telling 5 of their other friends). With 4 or 5 new cars coming in the upcoming years(elantra, santa fe, equus, entourage, tiburon) no wonder they need more exposure(and they have hit the button like no tomorrow.) to sale these solidly built cars and get closer to being top 5 selling automobile company in the world

    Hyundai has hit a huge clutch home run with this car, its being proven over and over again(doubters can doubt all they want) , congrats on the third coming on the jd power initial quality behind cars it has no business hanging with(lexus, porche luxury cars)
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    Profits are made on the Sonata; a healthy cut, believe it or not. Hyundai financials indicated HMMA, where the US-spec Sonata is built, has enjoyed a good first year of operation.

    As for fleet units, estimated at 30% - even excluding fleet sales, the Sonata will still meet target, given its current retail figures (total units per month times (1-0.3) - 30% estimated). Of course, we should note sales are counted as combined, and not separated. Given its current sale, 200K units this year is well within reach - which would be a great feat, compared to the sales of the last gen Sonata. The increased fleet unit percentage, or so I read, is due to the fact Hyundai wanted as many "butts" as possible in the Sonata - which is a good way to improve public perception.
  • master1master1 Member Posts: 340
    More Hyundai Sonata's will be sold. [like you said] The Hyundai Sonata's are gaining customers because they are starting to recieve better reviews, and quality ratings. Although, I personlly do not recommend Hyundai Sonata's, many more are starting to buy them. In addition to the Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, now the Hyundai Sonata is in the main competition.

    In my opinion, a Honda Accord or Toyota Camry is a better car.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,601
    From post # 3952 I was a bit surprised to see that Honda trails Hyundai in global sales by about 350,000 units and also trails Nissan by about 230,000 units.

    In their homeland market of Japan, Nissan leads Honda in sales also.

    Honda's marketing must be very effective in the USA to do so much better here.
  • goodegggoodegg Member Posts: 905
    Profits are made on the Sonata; a healthy cut, believe it or not.

    So you're some kind of insider that can somehow discern real profits from financial statements that don't have the reliabilty that US companies must (appear to) have? (SEC registered, GAAP bound, Sarbanes-Oaxley mandated etc.)

    Hyundai builds a better vehicle but their financials are what they want them to say and likely based on what the SK government wants them to say.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Is the Camry or Accord i4 better than a Sonata V6 car? Just wondering why you think that, and in which ways they are better. And let me add, what is really that much better between Japan makes and the Sonat i4 base cars???
    -Loren
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    Honda has a reputation for building cars that hold up for the long haul (Accords and Civics). Hyundai has a reputation for what? What little reputation they do have, is not good. When I buy a car, I keep it for at least 10 years and well over 100,000 miles. Hyundai has no cars on the road that are 10 years old. Therefore Sonata's long term reliability is only a guess, and wishful thinking IMO.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,601
    real profits from financial statements that don't have the reliabilty that US companies must (appear to) have? (SEC registered, GAAP bound, Sarbanes-Oaxley mandated etc.)

    Like Enron? and to a lesser degree, how many other companies that had to re-state their earnings?

    So much GAAP for large corporations, non-profits and governments (at various levels in the USA) defies the logic of normal people (how much did I earn and how much did I spend +/- plus any new debt obligations). If you own a (very) small incorporated business you can influence whether or not the business makes a profit--although money taken from the business will be taxable income to the principals--without the need for accounting expertise. Imagine what large corporations, including all the major auto companies, can do under accountng rules to affect their bottom line.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Hyundai has no cars on the road that are 10 years old.

    Absolutely untrue. That kind of blatantly false statement only serves to reduce your credibility. If you want to ignore Hyundai's progress over the past decade, go right ahead. But your ignorance of that progress doesn't make it disappear.
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