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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

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Comments

  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    This is just too exagerated IMO. Even if the plant was absolutely labor free it wouldn't save $5000. They still have to pay for steel, rubber, glass, robots, welding wire, lights, power, gas, etc. There is no way to save that much money when all these cost the same for everyone.

    If labor was zero they might save $1000-1500 per vehicle. The rest of the $5000 is just commercial incentive to buy part of the market.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    Fact is, Honda has a proven track record (decades of making quality cars). Hyundai has proven nothing. The 06 Sonatas could be total junk in 10 years. None of you can tell me how it will stand the test of time. Get back to me in 10 years. Initial Quality (J D Power) doesn't mean squat.
  • thesniperthesniper Posts: 44
    "Really? I think thats a big leap of faith assumption. $24,995 LXs leaving the Hyundai doors under $19K? The sales volume from Jan 06 through end of Mar 06 at 30% fleet (discounted) sales, and who knows where it stands for Q2? No doubt, there's some profit... but handsome?"

    There is profit... they even use portion of it to bribe the SK government.
  • choe13choe13 Posts: 348
    elroy5 thats the one thing hondayota owners can say to bash this car and thats about it.

    It has beaten hondayota 3 years now in jd power initial quality. thats already three years better quality

    u want 10? i have no doubt hyundai with the way they are making cars will be top 5 for jd quality for years to come

    What makes you think they would make a shaky car? why not give them the benefit of the doubt. Unlike their old ponys and excel, this is not the same car. The sonata was researched to death before made, using state of the art auto plant, refences from top quality cars(audi a6 lexus 330). Why the negativity. i dun get the hatred
  • thesniperthesniper Posts: 44
    "Why the negativity. i dun get the hatred"

    Look in the mirror... isn't it that you have same hatred for the other brands?
  • thesniperthesniper Posts: 44
    "This is just too exagerated IMO. Even if the plant was absolutely labor free it wouldn't save $5000. They still have to pay for steel, rubber, glass, robots, welding wire, lights, power, gas, etc. There is no way to save that much money when all these cost the same for everyone.

    If labor was zero they might save $1000-1500 per vehicle. The rest of the $5000 is just commercial incentive to buy part of the market."

    They're making money, KD. Actually, this is where the profits go for the following:

    Toyota - new models
    Honda - R&D
    GM - no profit
    Hyundai - bribery
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    It has beaten hondayota 3 years now in jd power initial quality. thats already three years better quality

    Total lie. In all the comparison test in 03 the 7th generation Accord creamed the competition. You will say anything to convince yourself how good the Sonata is. Despite what you say, the proof will only come in time. J. D. Power is a big joke. It's the award for companies who can't win a REAL AWARD.
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    J. D. Power is a big joke. It's the award for companies who can't win a REAL AWARD

    --end quote--

    OK, explain what you just said. Pray tell, what is a real award to you? I too have no way of knowing how Sonata compares to an Accord, Camry, Ford Five Hundred, LaCrosse, or whatever in four to eight years of service. The Sonata and Azera are totally new cars. Sonata is a new factory. They are using new engines. All there is to go by is current data. That data is encouraging. Hyundai is now third in rank for number of problems per car. They had a dicey past, and are willing to offer the longest of warranties. Not sure what more they can do.

    You are a Honda fan I take it. Very good point on reliability of those cars. History would indicate it is safe bet to last a long time. It very well could be that the more expensive Accord is the better of the two choices for those considering the Sonata. Will it be is only a guess. Maybe some people like the V6 for the price of a four banger? It seems like a good overall value package. I like the interior quality of the Accord, a great history (not sure about the automatic tranny) good seats, and overall fit and finish of the Honda. Why not try them both. See how the price compares, the ride, consider resale value, engine smoothness, and you know the whole deal, then decide if it is worth venturing into something new. Spend some time at the dealerships to see what they feel like to you. I admire what Hyundai did to turn the ship around. Equally, I admire the Honda company for excellence in engine building, and innovation on so many products over the years. Had a couple of their motorcycles. Great race car engines, to lawnmower engines. They are even building robots. Would be proud to own a Honda. This doesn't mean buying a Hyundai is not a reasonable thing to do. Sure, you are venturing in to the unknown as you would any significantly new automobile. Risk/reward is buying at a less cost in, and reward is if it all works out over the years.
    If you buy and sell often, or are uncertain you will keep the Hyundai, I would be a bit leery of resale values in the three to five year range. If you believe all Korean cars to be junk, by all means never buy a car with that attitude. You will spend day and night trying your best to find something wrong. I too like Honda, but see no reason to be so down on Hyundai, or JD Power.
    -Loren
  • those of you who doesn't believe in hyundai's reliability:
    you have 5 years left to hate hyundai.

    if hyundai still gathers awards after awards, good reviews after good reviews in year 2011, then stop all the doubting because ya'll run out of excuses.

    5 years folks, then it's the expiration date.

    hyundai will have full lineups of great cars with a great value(including hybrids and pickup trucks) with a PROVEN TRACK RECORD. of course, i'm not a psychic, but i know for a fact that companies like hyundai won't gamble; they will take toyota's routes.

    if people still hating on hyundai, they must owned an Excel before. they probably watched glengary glenn ross 20 times.

    by the way, i'm not a homer. i'm an acura owner who owned bmw 325i and an 03 accord coupe.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Yea!!!

    We finally agree. The Sonata is a fine vehicle and good competitor. Hyundai is using it to buy it's place in the American market a la HonYota in the early 90's. Break even or a small loss to establish it's reputation is not a bad policy if it can secure 200,000 units of profitable production on an ongoing basis in years to come.

    IMO the pricing is artificial but still smart for the time being.

    Question: Now that Hyundai has begun to prove it's quality at least initially would you pay $24,000 for a V6 LX? This is the same 'air' as the CamCords.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Honda is an extraordinarily good engine maker ( Indy 500 ) which happens to put auto's around some of these engines.

    In the US market only is Honda is considered to be one of the 'premier' automakers. In most other places Honda is far far down the list - including in Japan where it is 3rd like Chrysler.

    The US market is arguable the most important auto market for Honda.
  • bobadbobad Posts: 1,587
    I just don't get how car buyers allow themselves to be "conditioned" by clever advertising and "reputation" that they somehow must pay more. A good car is a good car, regardless of the badge or the price. Is a car your parents give you worthless? Will a car you pay $500K for be any more reliable than one you pay $20K for?

    Car makers will keep all the profits you allow them to keep. If you foolishly pay $5K too much, they will happily stuff it into their pockets, not into making a better car. If you refuse to play their game and choose to pay a fair price, they still make plenty profits for R&D and plant improvements. You can get caught up in that game the manufacturers try to play, and one-up your neighbors if that's your thing. If you need a comfortable, reliable car for the daily commute, you don't have to spend the kid's inheritance to get one.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,911
    Question: Now that Hyundai has begun to prove it's quality at least initially would you pay $24,000 for a V6 LX? This is the same 'air' as the CamCords.

    Absolutely not. That would mean I would buy a Sonata at list price, or at best for a lesser discount than an Accord or even a Camry. Why would I, or anyone, do that in today's ultra-competitive market for mid-sized cars?
  • choe13choe13 Posts: 348
    "Total lie. In all the comparison test in 03 the 7th generation Accord creamed the competition. You will say anything to convince yourself how good the Sonata is. Despite what you say, the proof will only come in time. J. D. Power is a big joke. It's the award for companies who can't win a REAL AWARD."

    jd power is a big joke? well then so is car and driver. At least jd power is a survey of 100 owners vs 100 owners. And not about sale figures or glory days reputation.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,911
    I have a pretty good idea of how the '06 Sonata will stand the test of time. How can that be? Because I have owned a Hyundai, a '01 model that was designed before Hyundai's push for quality began, for almost six years. I just sold it to my sister. When I sold it, it was rattle-free, as solid as the day I bought it (can't say the same for a $20k Mazda 626 that I own that is a little newer). The interior was like new. The engine was better than new--getting better fuel economy than when new, over 40 mpg on the highway. No serious problems during the 5-1/2 years of ownership. And the '04 Elantra I still own is doing even better. The most serious problem I've had with it in 2-1/2 years is condensation inside a headlamp cover.

    So I think I can reasonably extrapolate this experience to the '06 Sonata, which is a big jump ahead of that old Elantra in quality from everything I have experienced and read about it. Every bit of evidence shows that Hyundai has improved significantly in quality in the past six years, not gone backwards. The engines are designed to last 300,000 miles without a breakdown. The latest computer-assisted engineering and manufacturing techniques have been applied. Everything Hyundai has learned in the past six years has gone into making the Sonata a better car than the '01 Elantra. Thus I think there is a very high probability that the '06 Sonata will "stand the test of time." Is that a certainty? No; nor do we know for certain how cars like the '06 Accord and '07 Camry will hold up relative to the Sonata.
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,124
    What will Toyota/Honda have over the competition as consumers get smarter and realize they don't have to pay extra $$$ for a perceived reliabitliy/quality advantage? Reliability of vehicles is way up across the board from all automakers. In fact, reliability has virtually become a non-factor in the automotive industry. The new buzz word is "refinement".
  • bobadbobad Posts: 1,587
    You really nailed it scape2. There are no dogs in the mid sized segment!

    Manufacturers aren't stupid. They know they must produce a reliable product. Cars manufacturing has long been "mature". They all use the latest ISO standards. They all rely on proven technology, and learn from their own mistakes and the mistakes of others. Even without extensive R&D, there is enough advanced yet proven technology on the market to produce reliable, comfortable cars that will satisfy 80% of their market.

    The best cars in the segment are only slightly better than the worst, and then not even in all metrics. Much of it boils down to taste and perception. There will always be a few afficoanado's that will argue with this. They have been taken in by advertising hype, and some even believe that cars somehow have a "soul". It's fine for them to believe that, but I don't trust their advice. They tend to be too biased.
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    If you guys really think Hyundais (specifically the Sonata) are so unreliable, then provide some support. Everything I have read so far - opinions without substance and factual evidence. Keep in mind the past does the equal the present, and in this case, it certainly holds true.

    And to whoever posted this - JD Power is a reputable recongition. Toyota/Hyundai/Honda all did very well from the recent IQS in the midsize segment. As a whole, Hyundai nameplate slightly topped Toyota/Honda - this should not discredit JD Power nor Toyota/Honda. All three automakers make great cars. Let's leave the igorance out please.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Flip side of that coin....

    When Hyundai decides to cashin on it's new found reliability and eliminates rebates/discounts..... ???
  • master1master1 Posts: 340
    I feel that the Accord and Camry is better than the Sonata because of their reliability history, performance, quality, and overall. I think that the Camry and Accord are more reliable than the Sonata, but some may feel differently about that.
This discussion has been closed.