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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread
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Why is that? Doesn't KBB know anything about how these cars depreciate? Do you have any real-world data to share on actual resale prices of '06 Sonatas vs. their KBB value?
Obviously some cars of all models, incuding Accord, will be below book value.
All used vehicles sell in a range. You can get top dollar, average, or bottom. Which would you rather have Elroy? I rather have top dollar, so I work for it. I take good care of my vehicles, and always get a good price. That's a fact. Barring a significant wreck, I have no doubt my 2006 Sonata will fetch a decent price on the private market in 10 years... as 10 year old cars go! Sorry if that doesn't fit your broad vision of the used car world.
Backy is right. You can't compare moderately priced and high priced car resale value on a dollar basis. You must go by the percentage of the actual new price paid. Since I only paid $18,600 OTD, I don't expect my 10 year old car to fetch as much as a $25K car.
Nor do I even care. I'll take the $6K up front over the $1-2K on the back end every time, thank you!
I can hear the snickers now at the Nordstrom valet parking stand. " You take the Hyundai...."
That's right, it's a range. But if you can sell a Sonata in the top of this range, you can also sell an Accord in the top of the range. So your point is pointless. The fact is, you can sell a 2006 Accord for about $5,000 more than you can sell a 2006 Sonata for. Check the listings yourself.
In the insurance industry, there is a saying: "Buy term [insurance] and invest the difference." In the mid-sized car field, we could say instead, "Buy a Sonata and invest the difference."
Yea, sure. Everybody is going to do that.
I can buy an Accord say for $25,000 and sell it 10 years later for $9,000. You can buy a Sonata for $20,000 and sell it 10 years later for $4,000. Guess what, we both both ended up spending $16,000 for our cars. But the clincher is, I drove around in a better car, for 10 years, than you did. You can say my numbers are off, but they are probably pretty close to reality.
So I'd rather be selling the Sonata in 10 years than the Accord. And I prefer how the Sonata drives to the Accord.
P.S. If I take that $5000 up front savings you mentioned and use it to pay down my mortgage, I would save lots more money over the next 10 years.
Since money for the new car comes out of my savings and credit union, it's the same as investing the difference. The less I withdraw, the less interest I lose.
$4K for a 10 year old 06 Sonata should be no problem when the day comes. $9K for a 10 year old Accord in today's dollars? Possible, but that would probably be some kind of world record or something. They go for about $6K around here, but only if they are 1 owner, <150K miles, and in excellent condition.
The question of who drove the best car after 10 years is unknowable until the 10 years are up. You may be right, the Accord may be better, but not likely $5K better OMHO.
A 1996 Accord EX V6 cost $25,100 new. Even if you could have gotten a big discount on it, say you could have saved $3000 off list and gotten the car at invoice, no small feat in 1996 on an Accord (no rebates back then either), the car would have lost over $17,000 in value in ten years according to Edmunds.com. Why wouldn't a 2006 Accord lose at least that much in dollar value in ten years, and probably more since it would cost more?
It looks like the value equation is still tilted in favor of the Sonata, especially when considering interest charges avoided and the value of any interest earned on the purchase price difference.
I like Honda. I like what I have seen of Hyundai lately. I will look over lots of different cars. Actually, I may buy something totally different, as I do like cars with some character to them. Looking for cars with some soul. The Dodge Stealth just grabbed me when I saw her in the showroom. Most cars these days are too bland, or too expensive if not bland. I 'm thinking, I'm thinking. In sedans the Altima, then the CTS and perhaps now the Fusion seem to have a little spice to them. The Azera? Not sure. The Sonata, nice package - maybe too Accord in looks. And I would test drive the i4 Accord, then the Sonata i4 and/or the V6 in the same day to see how they compare. I know some will like the Sonata better after the test drive, while some may not. And again, where is the spice? Saw a 2003 CTS for $25K today. Told the salesman that it was too expensive, and that it is priced like a brand new Azera.
-Loren
Styling means absolutely squat, its the refinement that matters, and that's where the Accord seriously packs the bunch.
Think about it, Toyota redesigns the Camry and can only beat the Accord by less than a point in a comparison test. Now that's refinement.
As the driver of an 05 Altima, I feel both the Accord and Camry, especially in higher trim levels, have more panche than say the Altima 3.5SE or 3.5SL, Sonata or even Mazda6, but you'll pay for it
I couldn't agree more.
With a Cadillac, you are paying some of the price for name recognition ("class" points). Many people don't even know what an Azera is. Just depends how much saying "It's a Cadillac" is worth to you. To me, the name Cadillac doesn't mean very much. Everyone is different. I would not pay the extra money for an Acura TL, just for the "Style points". Some people do.
The new Sonatas are every bit as good as the Accord and Hyundai recently ranked 3rd in build quality behind Porsche and Buick.
No, they are not. You have your opinion, and I have mine.
Anyway, in my opinion, I feel the gap is closing and is very small now between the leaders and the challengers; especially in the midsize category. I don't think there is such a thing anymore as one car being more superior than another; every model is ver competitive now. Car A might have an edge in one area; while car B is better in another area. Bottom line, all great cars, and consumers cannot go wrong with any model they choose.
Now there are a half dozen other good choices in sedans, no doubt. Each has something a little different, or better to offer. Lots of things are just subjective. And your neighbor may be just as happy with his or her new LaCrosse and you are with your new Kia, or Jetta--- it really doesn't matter, as it is all opinion.
When it comes to facts, it matter only as much as you value those elements of the buying decision. I do it myself, and should know better. Telling people one car is so much better for them, when there are to many different things going on in their mind as to what they desire and need in a car to ever come with up any certainty that I know the best car for them is impossible. I can give them my OPINION of what I would buy based on how I see the car(s) in question, and that's about it.
-Loren
I couldn't agree more, and I think most reasonable people could agree. It makes it a little difficult to chat about cars here when someone says they prefer brand "A", the others think "They hate brand B". Well, that's not true in most cases. I think 97% of the posters here like something about all the midsize cars. The other 3 like only their favorite brand, and all others are called "junk" or similar. Another big problem is that some people made up their mind years ago that they hate a certain make, and even if it would magically become perfect, they would not change their mind. It's their loss. People that consider all makes are the only winners. I would be 95% happy with any of them.
Take all these midsize cars and line them up. Offer them at the same price to the world. Now look at the sales numbers.
How many people who would have bought a Camry and Accord before this would now switch to a Hyundai or Kia? Zero, because they would've been able to get one for less money before this leveling of the playing field.
How many people who would have bought a Hyundai or Kia before this would now switch to a Toyota or Honda? Some number greater than zero (most likely each and every person who bought one because they wanted a midsize car but couldn't afford the Camry or Accord).
I think a better measurement would be to have people do "blindfolded" test drives of the mid-sized cars, i.e. with identities/brands masked. That may not be practical, but it would allow people to rate the cars without preconceptions getting in the way.
Is Sonata a decent midsize sedan? YES
Is Sonata a biggest bang for the buck in this segment? Highly Likely
Is Sonata the best car in this segment? NO IMO
It took Accord/Camry 20 years and series of successful models to establish its reputation and they deserve every bit of it. Now with only 1 successful model and you put Sonata in the same league as the CamCords that is just totally rediculous. Is it possible that we are seeing history repeating itself with the Sonata? Very likely. But we won't know it until Hyundai proved itself again and again like the Toyota/Honda did back in the 80s and 90s.
You bought the Sonata because its cheaper and it serves you same purpose as the other midsize sedans so you think you got the best deal and good for you. But whatever you do please do not pretend you just got a cheaper CamCord because you didn't. In order to be in the same league as the Accord/Camry the Sonata needs to do EVERYTHING as good not just SOMETHING. Also, CamCords didn't establish the benchmark by doing everything as good as the domestics, they did everything BETTER, period. Until Hyundai can come up with a Sonata that performs better than CamCords in many areas they will always be just another midsize sedan whom is trying to chase down 2 very fast moving targets.
I also think that although the current Sonata is decent, the exterior design is a total rip-off of many other cars:
front end: last generation Honda Accord
Roof: Audi A4
Rear end: current generation Honda Accord (before the 06' modification)
Before they can come up with their own design, they won't earn my respect at all.
Sonata owner here. I generally agree, but there are some things the Sonata does better than the Accord & Camry. The engine felt smoother and quieter, the ride was smoother, and the accelrator felt more positive than both, and the body fit and paint was a tad better on the ones I looked at. I actually liked the handling better on the Camry, but the Accord was a bit better than both. There are quite a few things about the A&C that are better than the Sonata, but only slightly... certainly not deal killers.
I also think that although the current Sonata is decent, the exterior design is a total rip-off of many other cars:
You can say the same thing about every current car in the world. These little midsized cars are so well defined by interior, exterior, suspension, safety, etc. there is only so much wiggle room for styling. It's all been done before on every car made since 1960. And believe me, no car maker wants to copy another. Designs are locked in 2-3 years before release, and kept secret. All the makers rule out "radical" designs right up front, so that narrows styling down even further. This makes occasional coincidences inevitable, and dreaded by the manufacturers.
BTW, since Honda copied the rear end of the current generation Accord (before the '06 modification) from Buick, does that decrease your respect for Honda at all?
The car is COMPETITIVE..without a doubt...and we all should be glad that we have so many different choices. For example, the Sonata nor the Accord particularlly thrill me, but I find both to be respectable sedans in this class, along with the Camry, Altima and Mazda6.
How about the fact that pricing for the Aura has been announced (check out Saturn.com) and the fact that we have other cars in this class like the Fusion and Milan and others.
Sometimes I think we should rename this forum Accord vs. Camry vs. Sonata because that's all we basically hear about in this forum and it has become oh so boring...I miss the early days of Edmunds.com.
As for the new Accord's rear end I personally don't think it's a copy from Buick. But if you insist, that's fine by me. It won't decrease my respect for Honda because it already proved itself with the 4th gen, 5th gen and the 6th gen. I am pretty sure Honda didn't copy from anybody to come up with those designs (same goes for the Camry).
It's because Accord, Camry and Sonata are currently the most popular midsize sedans on the market. Since this is a midsize sedan forum, I am not surprised to see the most popular cars in this segment being discussed the most.
The best selling sedans in this class are the Camry, Accord, Impala, Altima then Sonata thus far this year.
The Malibu and Impala are big sellers, and the Fusion is selling well also, but we hear nothing, nada about them in this forum compared to the Camcordnata.
The Sonata could eventually outsell the Altima (this year anyway) but then with the next generation Altima will probably continue to outsell the Sonata based on the fact that it will be new.
Truth is few of those who post here seem willing to admit that the competition is so close these days, any one of the top 5 or 6 brands in this class is a very good vehicle, and most of those who post for or against any one of them generally are exagerrating past and present reliability perceptions.
The Accord proved itself back in the late 1980's when it became the best selling car in America (aka the 3rd generation). The 1986 Accords (with those flip up lights) were the benchmark cars of their class during those years and paved the way for the 4th generation (1990-92) that also sold in record numbers. While the 3rd was a good benchmark, the 4th generation went on to higher heights and really propelled the Accord in its class. Competition from Ford and Toyota ended the 4th gens reign as the best selling car in America. The 5th generation was actually considered a step back by many magazines and consumers because of its small size relative to the Camry and Taurus and in the beginning a lack of V6 power. The V6 came in 95 though.
Honda had a wild idea that folks would move to smaller sedans, but the attempt failed, and the 5th generation was a bit of a setback for Honda, that's why the 6th was so major for a while. The 6th generation was seen as moving back in the right direction because of the proper (at the time) 3.0V6 and roomy (for the time) interior dimensions.
My favorite generation of Accords have been the 4th and 6th generations. So the Accord basically established itself at the 2nd generation model, which my parents owned (a 1984 and 85 model) and Accords were considered good cars back then(not so sure about the 1st generation) but it was the third that gave the Accord its benchmark standards. Rarely has the car ever been rated any less than benchmark standards since this time even during the low selling times of the 5th generation.
Will the Sonata have similar success? I most definitely think it will.
I'm sure Alpha (who knows a great deal about Toyota's products) can give a brief history on the Accord if he feels so inclined.
I would not exactly speculate since we all know this will never happen.
"How many people who would have bought a Camry and Accord before this would now switch to a Hyundai or Kia? Zero, because they would've been able to get one for less money before this leveling of the playing field.
How many people who would have bought a Hyundai or Kia before this would now switch to a Toyota or Honda? Some number greater than zero (most likely each and every person who bought one because they wanted a midsize car but couldn't afford the Camry or Accord)."
Very much an incorrect assessment, especially the 1st quoted paragrah. Keep in mind, Camrys and Accords are no longer superior than their compeitions. As mentioned previously, every car is more than competitive and each with own merits.
It seems no matter what a few less zealous people post, the discussion goes right back to Camcord vs Sonata.
For my money, Fusion gets the vote as having the best combination of precise handling combined with a firm but not punishing ride, reasonable price, styling, and trunk space. My past experience with Ford products has been very good, so no reason to switch brands on that basis. The V-6 Duratech is a very decent reliable engine, and the whole package can be bought close to or under $20K (for a V-6 Fusion SE).
Resale value? I could care less as I keep my cars at least ten years, and at that point condition of the vehicle counts more than brand regarding its remaining value. I never trade my cars in, I sell them outright, usually to the first buyer who actually comes over to check the vehicle out in person buys it due to it's excellent condition given it is a ten or more year old car.
The only shortfall I see is not having a I4 option.
If GM sticks to the no dicker pricing on these Auras, for $20K I would still be inclined to shop the competition unless they hit it out of the park in all other areas, such as handling, interior quality, etc.
before disrespecting hyundai look at the other hyundai models. hyundai has many current original designs-elantra, santa fe, tucson, and tiburon. azera does resemble mazda in front, but looks sleek and orginal from the rear and side.
If one really thinks about it, there are too many cars, and too few styling possibliities. The math catches up, and the car makers simply run out of permutations.
I remember reading about the 17 fires that prompted the sales halt of a large portion of the current inventory, but I've not read of the solution or what happened with those vehicles.
Also, I'm interested to know the cause, as likely near a million of those engines are on the road since late '01 (including my Sentra), I'm not sure why this issue would crop up now....
Here's Nissan's own press release, but there has not been a follow-up on nissannews.com.
"GARDENA, CA (June 2, 2006) – Nissan North America, Inc., today directed its dealers to stop selling certain 2006 model year, four-cylinder Altimas and Nissan Sentra SE-Rs because of reports of excessive oil consumption while it continues to investigate potential causes.
The condition, if not detected or addressed properly, could lead to the potential for engine damage, or failure which could result in a fire in extreme cases. The National Highway Transportation and Safety Administration has been advised of Nissan’s action.
Nissan estimates that about 100,000 Altimas and Sentra SE-Rs built between January and May 2006 may be subject to excessive oil consumption. There have been about 215 reports of excessive oil consumption, mostly from rental-car fleets, and 17 reports of engine fires, resulting in one minor injury.
Nissan is aggressively working to find a definite cause and solution for the condition.
Nissan is advising owners of these vehicles that they should frequently check and maintain the engine oil level. If the engine oil level is kept at the proper level, there should be no engine damage and no risk of engine failure or a resulting fire. If the engine oil level is not registered at all on the dip stick, customers are urged to immediately add oil and bring their vehicle to a Nissan dealer.
In the interest of customer satisfaction, Nissan has extended the engine portion of the Powertrain Coverage of the vehicles’ warranty on Altimas and Sentra SE-Rs built during the January to May 2006 period to 84 months or 100,000 miles, whichever comes first.
Nissan is taking these actions as part of its commitment to provide the highest levels of product quality and customer satisfaction.
In North America, Nissan\'s operations include automotive styling, engineering, consumer and corporate financing, sales and marketing, distribution and manufacturing. More information on Nissan in North America and the complete line of Nissan and Infiniti vehicles can be found online at www.NissanUSA.com and www.infiniti.com."
I think this shows impressive committment to the customer in some ways.
With that said, I think the reason that conversation frequently turns to Camcord vs. Sonata is that the Camry and Accord are generally top sellers and held in highest regard in the segment. The Sonata is the first serious threat since the '02 Altima, and quite frankly, there's not a lot of buzz on the new Altima given that its not available for drive yet, pricing isn't out, etc...
~alpha
-Loren
If this was a neutral country i don't know how the impala can have a chance with a sonata(honestly what one thing does it do better, it is not in the same neighborhood as in quality and priced higher(pretty crazy)
What awards has the altima won? i think nil. Interior was below par in tightness and quality material, spectacular engine, good handling, size, looks cool, so so overall quality, priced almost as high as camcords
camry, accord and now the sonata are winnign alot of awards, good quality(jd power)etc. These cars i feel nail down the fundamentals of what a good mid size car should be, but of course the sonata is winner in my books with its pricing, tremendous value, high in safety(abs, esc, awsome brake grips), respectable performance and of course the sharpest dressed sedan currently