Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread
This discussion has been closed.
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
Now, if we're talking about the current entries from the Big 2.5 in the midsize field, here's what I think:
DCX- Stratus/Sebring- out of date, unrefined, way below safety standards for the class, inefficient, poor interior materials quality, in dire need of the redesign that's coming. (I've had both a 2.4L Stratus and a 2.7 Sebring as rentals from Hertz in the recent past- both, strangely, lacking ABS- inexcusable in this segment.)
GM- Malibu, G6, Aura- The Malibu strikes me as a good value though not necessarily a vehicle I'd buy. Most aspects of the car are good to very good but not class leading- acceleration, efficiency, safety features/rating, ride, noise, etc. Sames goes for the G6, though I think the electric steering in both is a bit weird. (I've had a 3.9L G6 GTP and 3.5L Malibu as rentals as well, and some experience with them I'd take either in a heartbeak over the DCX losers.) The nice thing about the GM entries is that they offer a ton of body styles, engines, transmissions, trim levels. Factory remote start is really neat, IMO, though ESC should be available.
With all that said, I still would be hard pressed to buy a Malibu or G6 over a similarly priced Sonata or nearly departed Altima (on which sale pricing will continue as we move through the summer).
Ford- clearly leaving the other two in the dust with the new Fusion. By a few points, the new Fusion beat out the last generation Camry XLE V6 and current Sonata V6 in the Dec. 05 issue of C/D by virtue of its sharp handling, composed ride, feature content, interior space, etc. But IMO, it does fall short on some materials quality, engine refinement and power, and the 'Acceptable' rating in the IIHS frontal offset is unacceptable in my book. Where are ESC, Nav, keyless start, etc? Still, the price is right and the styling is also sharp. I've not had one for a rental though I have driven one for a short time. Hands down, this is the best Big 2.5 offering.
Just IMO.
~alpha
Malibu and G6 would not make my list, Malibu for its lame styling and interior blandness even if it is competent and reliable. Malibu exterior styling has always struck me as trying to have Cadillac edges, but it comes off more as a K-mart blue light special.
DC will soon be introducing a new model in the midsize field that may make it a contender, the jury has not even convened on that yet since it is not in production.
I would bet that Fusion will certainly do better on the IIHS side impact test when it is retested with the full complement of side airbags, which become standard on Fusion for 2007. As far as IIHS offset front test, aside from a bit of intrusion in the foot area, it probably would have earned 5 stars rather than 4. Yes a bit of improvement needed there, but it certainly cannot be considered a death trap!
Toyota is beginning to show signs of quality/refinement issues. If you read the Inside Line "2007 Camry Woes" discussion you get a flavor of it. I see no "Fusion Woes" or even a "Fusion Maintenance and Repair" discussion being initiated yet, and Fusion has been on the market quite a bit longer than 2007 Camry.
The Optima would be much more attractive to me if they had all the safety goodies standard (or even available!) on the LX trim.
I agree, I think its the alloys that they're using, The alloys on the concept were very nice and gave the car a clearner appearance. The Aura also appears to be unusally tall, especially in the rear. Gm needs to drop the car a few inches to give the car a better tire to body ratio and a more aggressive stance
Sounds like it may even be firmer (based on his opinion). Judging by ace's words about the Mazda6 being balanced well between handling and ride (which is tuned tauter than Accord), the Kia sounds like it may even be firmer. Personally, I like the tight ride motions of the Accord, because it has no "float" or "bobbing" motion when going over bumps.
Top-rated 2006 Ideal Vehicle brand: Hyundai
Top-rated 2006 Ideal Product Segment: Large Car/Luxury Car
Top rated 2006 Ideal Vehicles by segment:
PASSENGER CARS:
Premium Luxury Car Lexus LS
Entry Luxury Car BMW 3-Series
Large Car/Luxury Car Mercury Montego
Premium Mid-Size Car Hyundai Sonata
Mid-Size Car Mercury Milan
Image Compact Car Toyota Prius
Compact Car Ford Focus
Sports Car Porsche 911
Sporty Car Acura RSX
SUT, SUV, and MINIVAN:
Sport Utility Truck Honda Ridgeline
Luxury Sport Utility BMW X-5
Large Sport Utility GMC Yukon
Premium Mid-Size Sport Utility Nissan Murano
Mid-Size Sport Utility Hyundai Santa Fe
Compact Sport Utility Subaru Forester
Minivan Honda Odyssey
Beats me...if it has a different wheel/tire combo the ride will probably be different, but likely even MORE harsh than the 4-cylinder.
Navi, BT, Leather + heated seats, Sunroof, VDIM, JBL 440 watt 4 disc w/8 speakers.
What was exceptional about this was that in 650 mi from sealevel up and over the Appalachians it registered 39 mpg - at 70 mph on average.
Most of the drive was in dead silence with little or no engine noise. It was just the sound of the tires on the pavement and the extraordinary sound system.
For those looking at top of the line trims the Camry with the power of a V6 and the fuel economy of a Civic/Corolla/Elantra is a great choice.
Ahhh... it currently costs less than the XLE V6 trim in the Edmunds comparo.
So, my Ford experience has been excellent, and I keep cars ten years so depreciation matters little to me.
Let see, I save $2k up front. I invest that at say 5% return, and at the end of ten years I have $3258. Based on past performance I have experienced, this should cover any repairs I will need with some money left over.
Take your blinders off. Toyonda aren't the only ones making decent cars these days.
There are a lot more Fusion owners out there at this point in time than there are 2007 Camry owners. If Fusion had any significant problems to date, be assured Inside Line would be crawling with them.
That is some plant!
http://www.historychannel.com/modernmarvels/?page=video
Wow - really? Cause as good as they've engineered the car I feel its biggest drawback is it's LameO looks. Especially the front end - looks like a Russian or Eastern European design from the 80s (was that a Treblinka?)
I would not say it looks like 80s styling because its not -then your saying the styling is like a Yugo - that's a big exaggeration.
As far as getting boring about all this Hyundia talk,my guess is ,if there was more about Hondas or Camrys,it wouldn't be as boring.
You're way in the minority on that opinion. I don't think the car's looks are what's LameO. I am a low profile guy, and wanted a slightly nondescript car. Well, I find it turning heads and fetching quite a few compliments. I guess I still like it anyway.
This shows how young you must be.. When Honda first came to the U.S. its rep was not that good. I remember, my sister owned the first civic.. boy what a piece of garbage it was, constantly breaking down.. Times sure have changed...
I don't think you have to do that...after all, we ALL know that everything everyone posts on the internet must be true, right? Just kidding with ya, but, while you will definitely find problems with Honda when "Googling", the same can be said of all other car companies too. It proves very little, unless someone actually thinks Honda's ARE in fact perfect, which they definitely are not. But for me, the driving experience was as close to perfect as I could get with 34 MPG and $21k (Accord EX, I-4).
You don't count the 0% financing? compared to the 3.9 or 5 percent a Honda/Toyota owner pays over the lifetime of the payments? Get out on the net there are plenty of Fusion owners out here. Fact is the Fusion is proving very quickly to be a reliable, quality built vehicle.
Whoever said this I'd like to see them prove it. The Fusion is the fourth top reliable midsive car according the JD Powers so how is it that its ownership costs will be so high. I think it will be in line with everyone else. The differences in the reliability numbers are so small now that it won't even cause a significant difference in ownership costs. Additionally I think you can save even more than the MSRP difference as Ford dealers are more flexible when it comes to pricing than Honda and Toyota. You have to remember that if you don't buy that Camry, Toyota knows someone else will. With Ford, they are hungry for any sale they can get.
This is not meant to be a premium midsize sedan, but a sedan that is for a starting family who may want bigger room than a civic or mazda 3.
This segment and the one below it, the commuter segment, with vehicles like the Civic, Corolla, Elantra, Focus and Cobalt will be hot in the near term.
Everyone of these models should grow rapidly in volume.
Further, while the Altima 2.5L may be good enough in say I4 form, a V6 should defintiely be more powerful than 185 in a time when everybody has 220plus.
I do find the Optima more attractive than say the Sonata, but they both look like bland pototes to me. They both have that round "wanna be Audi" look but the cars aren't executed as well as say the A4 or A6, but then again I shouldn't expect them to be..since they cost half the price.
I'm FINALLY starting to see the resemblance between the Audi A6 and Sonata, it looks especially like the previous A6 which had a round "potato" look to it.
Maybe. People still want roomy vehicles. Minivans are coming back. They have more room than an SUV, get better gas mileage, typically have more/better safety features, handle and feel better, are more comfortable, also sit higher than a typical automobile, seat 7...(stop me whenever you want)...look better, cost less to insure, have better resale......etc.
So smaller doesn't mean much. Most families don't want a Yaris/Fit, or a Civic/Corolla, or even a CamCord.
Not me.
Too bad Hyundai didn't use Audi for interior design and quality of materials, which seem to be lacking on the Sonata IMO. It does everything well, but the interior is a low point. IMO.
But to each his own...I respect all opinions and enjoy these forums.
If you are a multicar family, usually you don't need TWO minivans, however, and the midsize sedans fill the bill with better fuel efficiency and still enough room for a lot of routine trips, with still enough metal around you to be reasonably safe.
There are a lot of people that would never need a minivan either, so for them it is overkill.
How do they know? It has only been around (it doesn't even have a nameplate to look at for past history) for what, a year tops? I'm not saying it will or will not be reliable, I just wonder how JD Power can assume how reliable a car will be when it has no real history. Reliability doesn't come from "initial quality".
For comfort and safety though, I would have to agree with you. Specifically, I really wanted a Honda Pilot SUV, but with gas prices and lack of garaging (garage narrow) I went with another Accord 4
Obviously the JD Powers survey done to date on Fusion or Milan is the 90 day variety. Not definitive, but still a good sign that they rank right up there in the top four.
A survey of the American vendors themselves revealed that the American carmakers treat them with so little respect, they will actually give the Japanese carmaker with an American factory a better part than they'll give the American one. (Note that Nissan, now under French ownership and squeezing its vendors American-style, may now be an exception.)
It's just another example of how American workers and unions have been unfairly saddled with the blame for the incompetence of their American-business-school-trained managements. Unfortunately, it's also another reason not to give American carmakers your money.
Just wanted to add also Audis new a6 does look sleeker than the previous one hyundai benchmarked, but the new audi a4 looks horrendous compared to the old one(tried to get a lil too cute)
lastly with interior matters, the sonata is not in the same league as the audi a6 but how can it be anyways with the kind of capital it can work with. It is definitely a tightly made interior for a midsize regardless, european styled
I agree with you. I think the Sonata interior is nice, and very functional for its price point, however, i wish hyundai had chosen the layout of maybe the azera's interior. Being that the new 07 elantra gets an azera like interior, hopefully Sonata will get this design also with its next update.
Whereas the new elantra and sante fe look tremendous in quality, finish and lastly design the sonata while having quality and finish lacks in the design deparment(a little awkward).
I don't think the sonata anytime will be able to adopt the new interior of hyundai, but at least unlike most cars in its class it is willing to offer 3 color trim levels(black looks really good)
I guess this question can really go both ways? How can Toyota start a whole new line (Scion) and automatically they are deemed reliable?
History shows cars that have good initial quality are generally great cars. I'm sure there are some exceptions.. But overall initial quality is a good indicator...
Ford is listening and producing results. Now its time for the media to step up and report the good news about Ford if its going to report the bad so readily..
Fact is the Japanese do squeeze vendors just as harsh as American car companies might. All in the name of profits and bottom line. The Japanese do it in a different manner however.. seen it, done it, lived it.. :shades:
It's great to have long standing vendor relationships, but loyalties must be ranked below quality, and a lesser degree to profits. I'm sure Camry and Accord are making the best profits in the segment by far.