Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

bobad · June 2006

Trying to compare it to the likes of the Hyundais is really funny...good joke...chuckle. ...them durn grapes were sour anyway!

Especially when it compares quite nicely, huh?

Sometimes I think the owners of $25K cars hate the $19K cars because they feel their wonderful car is somehow threatened. Well, they are not threatened. Honda is not going anywhere, and there will always be people with more money than to buy them.

joe97 · June 2006

It's the other poster's view, he likes the Sonata's rear better than the Accord's. It's not a funny comparison by any stretch of the imagination.

Accord has its merits but lacks in some areas; Sonata has its merits but lacks in some areas; every midsize sedan has its merits but lacks in one area or another. It's hard to say which one is better/superior than another, espeically since consumers have vast different perferences and needs. Given the competitiveness of today's midsizers, I'd say you can't go wrong with any of the choices given.

wolverinejoe80 · June 2006

it looks so much better than the accord from the rear. only honda homers would disagree.

wolverinejoe80 · June 2006

of course it's an opinion, but when 9 out of 10 people think M3 is better looking than let's say crossfire or GTO, then M3 is better looking car.

i'm not saying sonata is the best looking car in the world, but it does look very sharp for anything under 25k. i just wish that hyundai brings some kinds of sports package options, make it similar to this 'studie' sonata. wouldn't that be sweet? that would attract young buyers like me. refresh the interior, and tweak the front and sonata is a class leader by far in a look department.

unlike some of you i'm still young and i used to love 90's accords when it was still affordable and easily moddable. i think accords need to go back to its roots.

pat · June 2006

of course it's an opinion, but when 9 out of 10 people think M3 is better looking than let's say crossfire or GTO, then M3 is better looking car.

It's still opinion and that tenth person is as entitled to his/her opinion as are the other nine.

It's a good thing we have multiple cars to choose from - that way we all can find what suits our own tastes and preferences the best.

There is no right or wrong to this.

tbear503 · June 2006

That's not a Honda, but a Lexus IS(see the "L" on thetrunk lid)

maxamillion1 · June 2006

IMO, the Sonata is styled to be an "easy on the eyes" type of vehicle, similar to the Accord and Camry and this statement is a form of my opinion, so to each his own.

But to me, the Sonata is neither the "Best in class" nor is it say blander than the Accord and Camry. I think its just an average looking, kinda boring looking sedan just like the class leaders, because afterall, wasn't that Hyundai's idea, to go after the benchmarks?

The "lookers" in this class are the Pontiac G6, Mazda6 (especially) and the Altima (especially if its got side sills), and to me even calling them "sytlish" is a bit of a stretch. But then again, I'm twenty years old, so my idea of styling may be different from the demographics of the class.

However, I don't find the Sonata to be ugly (previous 03-05 Accord rear) or a stylish leader either (say Altima back in 2002, which was different enough from the Camcords, but similar to the Passat)
The Sonata is conservative at best (I distinctly remember a bunch of you guys/gals going on about why Hyundai made the car "conservative" in this "conservative market", now some say it's best lookin in class, oh how the opinions do change.)

I personally find the previous Sonata at least more daring and better looking and I think the stablemate Optima is better looking inside and outside. All of Hyundai's latest interiors are impressive (Santa Fe, Elantra, Azera) except the Sonata's which is too bland and too conservative even for this class, at least the exterior has a cohesive design, can't be said about the inteior.

But I'll stand by my statement that the Sonata is a gosh darn good car with boring styling similar to that of the Accord and Camry and no real dynamic design like say the Mazda6 or even current Altima which at least have love it/hate it styling. Even though the 07 Altima is a evolution in design compared to the 3rd from second, I'd venture to say it has more "dynamic" styling than the Sonata does because the car is very "ho hum" in a class where others are getting a bit more "dramatic", even the Camry, especially in SE form.

scape2 · June 2006

I am a Fusion SEL V6 owner. But the constant bashing of Hyunida is pure ignorance. Hyundia Sonata is a great car. How many awards does it have to win to prove that it does compete head to head with Honda/Toyota. You may ask then, why I didn't buy one? I liked the handling and styling of the Fusion better. Once again, opinion. Face the facts Hyundia has built a family sedan to compete and they have done a good job. To say noone will ever build a car as good as a Honda is just plain arrogant..

scape2 · June 2006

I agree %100 percent! Due to competition any of the sedans in this segment have strengths and weaknesses. As consumers start to realize reliabitlity is a non-factor, price/value start to kick in.

goodegg · June 2006

I find the 'bashing' to be from a style standpoint. That's not bashing in my eyes, since many people's car is a reflection of their personality to some degree. So if Hyundai styling (or lack of) isn't what people want, they aren't gonna buy it no matter how better they build them from yesteryear.

It as simple as that since most cars nowadays are well built and reliable if properly maintained.

bobad · June 2006

It's a good thing we have multiple cars to choose from - that way we all can find what suits our own tastes and preferences the best.

Not to mention not being able to find our own cars in the parking lot.

bobad · June 2006

I know what you mean scape2. I REALLY like the body style of the Fusion. I studied up on the Sonata for about a year before buying it, and knew every knob on it before I even bought it. I got in a rush before I had time to thoroughly study up on the Fusion. If the circumstances were a little different, I could easily be driving a Fusion right now. I'm totally satisfied with my Sonata, but would probably been just as satisfied with the Fusion. I can't imagine anyone bashing any car in this group. The criticism I am hearing just doesn't match reality. At least not MY version of reality.

njerald · June 2006

link title

w9cw · June 2006

Re. the Pontiac G6 . . . it may be a "looker," but after having lived with one for four days last week as a rental, I would not own one. Ergonomically, it could be much, much better. First of all, the when attempting to close the driver's door in the 4-door sedan, you practically have to fall out of the car to reach the door to be able to close it. And, I'm not a short person, and have rather long arms. Secondly, the storage cubby in front of the console mounted shifter is useless when you have the shifter in Park. Unless you have a hand the size of a child's, forget being able to use it. These are only two examples of ergonomic oversights.

The model I rented was a high-line model and it certainly did look nice, but it's not something I could live with for the long-term. Another vehicle that is style over substance . . .

joe97 · June 2006

I am pretty sure the only car in the picture the other poster meant to show was the Sonata. The IS is just posted next to the Sonata

joe97 · June 2006

Let the battle begins

joblow · June 2006

"How can you say the Altima will be an 2008 Accord beater? You know nothing about the 2008 Accord. Sounds like a definite case of Honda hating here. Have you even seen a picture of one?"

Now thats funny,I think this is a case of the Pot calling the Kettle Black ! There has been nobody in here bashing or hating nearly as bad as you bash or hate the Sonata.Think its time you had a reality check!

bhmr59 · June 2006

Yeah, right. That's why he took the time to block out the license palte numbers but didn't bother to block out the Lexus.

Maybe, just maybe, the picture was designed to show that the styling of many mid-size cars is similar.

scape2 · June 2006

"So if Hyundai styling (or lack of) isn't what people want, they aren't gonna buy it no matter how better they build them from yesteryear"
Styling.. Hate to break the news to you but the Accord and Camry aren't doing much better in the styling arena. In my opinion the Camry has now edged the Accord in styling. Still not really used ot the hood portion of the Camry, but at least Toyota took a chance.. After having seen a Fusion parked side by side to both an Accord and a Camry.. Styling goes to Fusion.. once again.. my opinion...

bobad · June 2006

There has been nobody in here bashing or hating nearly as bad as you bash or hate the Sonata. Think its time you had a reality check!

Some can dish it out fine, but can't take it!

When is the 2008 Accord debut? Halloween? I can't wait to see it, because Honda always seems to come up with clean, crisp styling.

autoboy16 · June 2006

So would you own a saturn aura? It has far better ergonomics than a g6.

Do you agree? It has more of the 2006 Impala's interior than the g6.

Its rear is on par with the 2007 camry and ford fusion and mercury milan. Its the best gm exterior i've seen in a while imo!

thegraduate · June 2006

of course it's an opinion, but when 9 out of 10 people think M3 is better looking than let's say crossfire or GTO, then M3 is better looking car.

Pat already addressed that statement, but I'll just step into say we disagree here. It's the better looking car to those 9, but not me if I'm the 10th.

elroy5 · June 2006

All the other car companies are afraid of the 2008 Accord. As they should be. If you are planning to buy a new car soon, I would wait for the new Accord to come out. If it's going to be even better than the present Accord, it will be worth waiting for. IMO

joe97 · June 2006

Both cars have their license plates blocked, actually.

m1miata · June 2006

AURA
It's another Altima, which was a knock of the Passat. Yes, nice interior. BTW, the Altima gets a new interior for 2007. For Saturns sake, I hope the Aura does better than the Catera. How reliable are the latest Opels? I guess this is the car which gets a 3.6 V6. That can't hurt. If they keep the price down, it may make the G6 history. Is Pontiac history? The coupe looks sort of interesting, but if priced the same as an Accord Coupe, I imagine most will just buy the most reliable one, with the greater resale value. Aura looks like Aurora. Bad omen, as you know Olds. is gone. And Buick got a Lucerne car based on a Cadillac chassis, which is another bad omen, as the Aurora was a Caddy originally.
- Loren

joe97 · June 2006

"All the other car companies are afraid of the 2008 Accord."

Maybe I haven't kept myself up-to-date but could you link me to the story where this is stated? Or is this your opinion?

As I mentioned previously, every car in this field is more than competitive; while one car gains in one area, the other gains in another. To say one is superior, or even better, every car company is afraid of one car is nothing short of ignorance.

I am sure the 08 Accord will be top-notch, and I expect it to be. I will continue to praise the Accord but not before the car is released. Automatically placing the 08 Accord as a superior car in the class, even before its release is wishful thinking.

joe97 · June 2006

I was hoping for an I4 as the base model but it gets two V6s in the trim models. I think the I4 would defn. keep the price down around high teens. As it stands now, the base Aura starts in the 20s.

elroy5 · June 2006

Like I said, they should be afraid of the 2008 Accord. The present Accord beat all the competition in all the comparison tests in 2003, when the 7th gen came out. And the 08 Accord will beat them all again. The Camry will come in second, and the rest will fight it out for third place.

ctalk · June 2006

And the 08 Accord will beat them all again. The Camry will come in second, and the rest will fight it out for third place.

I wasn't aware that you've seen and driven the 2008 Honda Accord.

You seem to be contradicting yourself.
Remember this post?
#4297 of 4335
How can you say the Altima will be an 2008 Accord beater? You know nothing about the 2008 Accord. Sounds like a definite case of Honda hating here. Have you even seen a picture of one?

choe13 · June 2006

lets give it a test drive before hyping it up elroy5

the civic was the best eco car and even after 2 years they had time to observe the mazda 3, its new civic that just came out could not beat it

that could be the case with the accord which should be good as usual but it may not be the leader anymore.

Plus accord is pricey, lack of value, worst lease and finance rates

m1miata · June 2006

[ Aura ]
Heard something like $25K, which means it is right in there with the Japan makes. But wait, we know they have good resale, and reliability -- people will just buy them for the same price. And in that range, Hyundai has the Azera luxury auto.
-Loren

elroy5 · June 2006

Considering that it has taken three years for the competition to catch up with the current Accord. The 08 Accord doesn't have to improve very much, to get the edge on them again. Honda is always improving. That's how they stay on top.

joe97 · June 2006

No one is saying Honda is not improving, no one is saying Honda is not one of the top crops in the midsize category, but to conclude 08 Accord the king and everyone else should just bow down from this point on, BEOFRE few has even seen or driven the car is pre-mature and has no credibility whatsoever.

Let's stay away from the igornance. Honda isn't the only automaker improving on this planet.

maxamillion1 · June 2006

The current Accord is usually rated at the top of its class in comparison test (heck even the new Camry barely beat it in Edmunds.com's test) and since that is the case, why wouldn't Honda take it to the next level with the next Accord? The current Accord's main drawbacks IMO are its styling and its brake performance. It does everything else as good, if not better than the competition.

So in Honda fashion, I've come to expect the Accord to be a class leader (like alwayz)but I'm sure not gonna call it the best when I haven't test driven it, yet alone seen it. I'm sure Honda will do a fine job redesigning the car again and a good way to put it is to say that I believe the next Accord will probably continue to be a class leader. No factual info is available, but Honda rarely fails twice...hopefully this time they'll get the styling together for this next generation.
Why do I think so? Well, the current model is considered one of the best if not the best...and Honda's got buying time to get all the little details right.

That's why we'll probably never see the Accord and Camry redesigned in the same year...Honda always waits a year later on the Accord then the Camry it seems lately because of the 5 year cycle (which used to be four for Honda)

bobad · June 2006

Honda is always improving. That's how they stay on top.

All the midsize care are constantly improving, not just Honda. All the midsize cars are already very good, and very hard to improve upon. This group is so refined that about all the improvement we will see will be styling and semi-useless gizmos. Until we get such useful things as 100K mile tires, 50mpg engines, scratch proof paint, tubular frames, improved owner maintenance, I will not be impressed with any "new" model of any make.

maxamillion1 · June 2006

...all cars are improving...I think what he meant is that by the time the new Accord hits, all the latest cars will already be out and that will give Honda the "one up" that it always has when it comes to redesigning the Accord. That's one of the reasons it usually is the benchmark.

Further, the Accord gets a little more elbow room for features compared to say the Camry and Altima because the Accord is Honda's flagship and the Camtima aren't.

w9cw · June 2006

Looks good . . . I will have to drive an Aura.

thegraduate · June 2006

All the midsize care are constantly improving, not just Honda. All the midsize cars are already very good, and very hard to improve upon. This group is so refined that about all the improvement we will see will be styling and semi-useless gizmos.

Hey, my only disappointment with my Honda Accord is the lack of a split-folding rear seat - the whole unit folds down like my 1996 model, seems like they could've implemented a split folder by now. Now THAT'S not semi-useless, but the keyless start found on Acura RL, Camry, new Altima, is pointless IMO.

elroy5 · June 2006

Things Honda could do to jump ahead of the pack in 08:

1. Use the 3.2L engine from the Acura TL (with cylinder de activation) which would improve power, and fuel mileage.

2. More road noise insulation.

3. More rear seat room. (slightly wider)

4. Improve braking power.

5. New exterior design.

These few things are easy for Honda to accomplish (no new technology required) and would make them the class leader again. They could add other things such as adjustable pedals, split folding rear seat, etc. Honda can accomplish these things with ease.

bobad · June 2006

Agree on the Accra engine. That's truly useful technology. Road noise insulation is always good. Declining infrastructure will make extra insulation more desirable in coming years. More rear seat room is always useful, but not easy to acheive. The tires get in the way. Better braking is always good. Some day a better material will replace warp-prone cast iron rotors at an affordable price. A body style change is useful to me only to differentiate between models. As long as the body style is not ugly, it's acceptable to me. None of the mid-sized cars are even close to ugly. When people say they are, they lose their credibility.

joblow · June 2006

Oh and what do you think the competition will be doing,nothing? All automakers will be on the path to improvements and adding features that will be standard ,instead of options,thanks to the likes of Hyundia and others.
I have found most of your posts show signs of dismay,with so many folks taking a chance on other manufacturers other than Honda,you also show desperation in all your posts sounding like a broken record,trying to convince everyone that Honda is the only way to go.You seem to take it personal if someone doesn't agree with you.
As most have said in here repeatedly,as you do,we all know Honda is a good vehicle,the difference is we are more open minded and don't necessarily agree with you that it is the only way to go.
My wife and I have both,a Honda and a Hyundia Sonata.WE like both ,we gave the Honda to my son and bought the 2006 Sonata(wonderful car),we just didn't like the overall looks of the Accord.Are we daring,not at all, we test drove many cars and did our homework.From all the ratings and articles that supported the 2006 Sonata it made our choice easy.Oh and because we bought the Sonata ,does that mean we are wrong or out of our mind,well thats what your posts in the past seem to imply.Stop trying to convince everyone Honda is the only way to go.It is not ,there are many other vehicles just as good and better looking today,whether you like it or not.

tinatina · June 2006

I think #5 is a given. Honda would not do a new model without re designing the car. With the engine department, I would think its a reasonable assumption that the 3.2 V-6 would be available and improvement in fuel economy. However, the 4 cylinder and the 5 speed auto tranny will likely to be just "carry overs" with some improvement in fuel economiy and NHV. I would not look for significant changes in that powertrain since its arguably the best in the segment. I don't think that there will be any increase in the HP Department for the 4 cylinder. (I personally wonder if Honda will use a 6 speed auto in the 4, and a 7 speed auto on the V-6).

With my 2006 Accord 4, Honda made significant progress in Items 2 and 4. The Accord received an extensive application of new sound deadening to improve NVH. Although the Camry may be slightly quieter, there is not a big difference.

More interior space would be helpful though IMO.

alan_s · June 2006

In support of Honda and based on my real life experiences with 3 new vehicles obtained over the last 12 months, these are the results of my personal "Initial Quality" assessment. The following represents the number of problems I reported to the dealer at the first oil change, and fuel consumption averages:

2006 Pilot EX:
0 problems.
None to date.
Average city mpg 17.2 using regular.

2006 Altima 3.5SL:
1 problem - resolved same day.
No further problems to date.
Average city mpg 18.1 using regular.

2005 Avalon XLS:
More than 10 problems not including rattles. No problems ever resolved.
Developed over 18 problems within 10 months.
Average city mpg 16.3 using premium (recommended by dealer).

Obvious Conclusions:
IMHO, Honda is #1 when it comes to quality and I hope they maintain this lead with any new models. Nissan is a close second with the Altima although I am not convinced that all Nissan models are of equal quality (Quest and Titan come to mind), and Toyota - well... guess who needs to go to summer school.

tinatina · June 2006

Good morning, what was your problem with the Altima? I like the current Altima a lot and await for the 2007. Sorry, if you posted this already, but I have not posted for about a week and do not often go back to read all the posts. Is your Pilot an AWD? I wanted the Pilot EX AWD and you know from my posts that I also considered a Sonata and an Avalon (wanted more interior space). I'm surprised that your Pilot got better fuel economy than the Avalon.

I purhased a 2000 Accord, a 2004 Accord, and a 2006 Accord (all 4 cylinder autos and brand new vehicles). I had no problems with the 2000 Accord; 1 problem with the 2004 Accord (air bag recall); and no problems with the 2006 Accord SE. With my 2006 Accord SE, I just hit 200 miles. I have more than half a tank of gas in it - and with my 2004 I got about 27 to 28 MPG on the freeway and city driving (near SF) - hills, stop and go traffic, etc. I am impressed with how Honda has progressed in the auto tranny department compared to the late 1980s/early 1990s vehicles (I had a 1988 Acura Integra whose tranny went bad after 12 years- and my 2000 Accord's tranny warranty was extended by Honda). The shifts of the 2004 were smooth - no hestitation, etc. My 2006 appears even smoother - it also has the DBW.

With my 2004, my father remarked that I should have gotten a 6 cylidner. I told him try this vehicle, and you would see why you do not need a 6 cylinder. After trying it, he concured.

alan_s · June 2006

Pilot is a 2WD - more than enough to be used as a kid taxi, and I wanted the better fuel efficiency resulting from a lower weight and the Variable Cylinder Management system which is only offered on the 2WD model.
The Altima had a front-end steering noise. The dealer knew what it was and corrected it promptly. I consider this a non-event because it was properly handled and remedied. I am 100% satisfied with the Altima.

bobad · June 2006

IMHO, Honda is #1 when it comes to quality and I hope they maintain this lead with any new models.

I simply do not understand this mindset. I don't have a horse in the race, and don't care which one takes the lead. Developing brand loyalty could possibly influence me to not buy the best car for the money some day. When it's time to buy another vehicle, I will buy my favorite. What is my favorite? I don't know yet!

elroy5 · June 2006

Oh and what do you think the competition will be doing,nothing? All automakers will be on the path to improvements and adding features that will be standard ,instead of options,thanks to the likes of Hyundai and others.

The fact that 08 will be a totally new Accord (new body) they can make more significant changes. Basically anything they want to change, they can. Hyundai is stuck with this body until the next generation Sonata. When will that be?

bhmr59 · June 2006

I thought I was saying that. Sorry if it was unclear.

louiswei · June 2006

but the keyless start found on Acura RL, Camry, new Altima, is pointless IMO.

I am not familiar with Acura and Nissan's keyless system but I think the Toyota/Lexus' Keyless start setup is very useful. It was designed so you don't need to have the key on your hand through out the whole time (from entering to exiting). All you need to do is place the key in your pocket.

joblow · June 2006

IMO the Accord hasn't looked good for the last few years,but my opinion shouldn't influence others.One should make ones own decision and pick according to what they like and not buy just because you think a car is not what you would buy.You should respect all others choices.The Accord is a good car(as others are).They will most likely change its styling in 2008,and some of the reason will be because of the new Korean models.Now personally I like the looks of the new Sonata and I plan on keeping it for a few years because of its styling,so I don't care if they don't change it right away.We are happy with it as it is and we are glad to hear the Accord will get a facelift in 2008,cause we believe it needs it.

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