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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

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Comments

  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    Also there is an awful lot in here about Honda and that doesn't seem to bother us Sonata owners.

    That is exactly what is bothering you.
  • choe13choe13 Member Posts: 348
    i beg to differ price or not i would get the sonata. I'm sure most new sonata owners who sort of really wanted a camcord in the first place , wouldn't trade their sonata for those cars after ownership now.

    The camcord i can see cuz of relability under their belt(Even though alot of recalls and crap) would be a fine v6 choice if no price was involved, but the altima v6 over sonatas v6? that must be a joke cuz other than their slight engine edge , and stiffer suspension, it has nothing it can do better than the sonata. The new altima will be a better match though i'll admit.

    The sonata aint no value sedan, every single expert test never mentions price as its selling point only the icing on the cake. If you drove it with an open mind you would understand the reason why as well
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    Power itself is nothing to get excited about in this class. As many other posters have already pointed out, you are in the wrong segment if you put such focus in the power department.

    Just for better measure and going by your performance importance, you make it sound like the Sonata 3.3 is far below the top, then I guess you have not been in one yet. By the way, the Edmunds' comparsion, the Sonata placed second behind the Camry in 0-60 times, ahead of the Accord and Fusion. FYI - C+D tested Sonata running to the line in 6.5 secs, average across the board has the Sonata in the high 6s and low 7s.
  • driverdmdriverdm Member Posts: 505
    choe13, check my profile. I definately DO NOT LIKE CAMCORDS. I drive a Mazda6 and my brother drives an Accord. I have no love at all for the new Camry. Post after post I have critisized it for its design and price. The Accord is the best player but the desig nturns me right off. Get it straight. I have no bias. I find faults in all the cars. In an unbias world, the Sonata V6 can't be said to be "one of the best out there". You can think what you want but numbers are numbers.

    "I was talking about low end rpm pull" So what is that good for if you aren't going anywhere? So if you have better low end rpm pull and I have a faster engine, which is better again?
  • driverdmdriverdm Member Posts: 505
    Ummm I almost bought a Sonata and I did more than one test drive.

    You talk about the Accord vs the Sonata in the V6 comparison I did but what about the Altima, I notice no response, or the Camry, silence there, or the new Ford 3.5, UH OH Houston we have a problem. The Aura baseline V6 starts at 234hp, what about the Passat V6, or the V6 in the Legacy. There is a lot of V6s in this class that out perform the Sonata, so to say it that V6s don't get much better than the Sonata's" is an overstatement, right or wrong.

    And by the way, check your sources. C&D got the Accord EX V6 to run to 60 in 5.9 seconds in their article on Modern Day Heroes. That's faster than your Sonata at 6.5 from C&D right?
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Well, when offered the Sonata at a lower price, then yes - such a deal ! If the price was the same, do you really think people would buy it over the Japan makes? I like the car, but we are talking economic suicide if price paid was the same.

    The cabin space is good, the interior quality is OK, but I kinda like the Accord. The style is OK, yet the Altima is a little more pizazz. The Sonata and Accord sort of tie on exterior look, IMHO. The new Camry I like, yes a little funny nose, but overall neat look to it. The Camry steering may be so-so, I really have not driven it, and only know what I hear, and those people doing the road tests are not always right 100% of the time. I sat in a Fusion and Milan and like the style, with an above average interior. Will test drive that car and the Sonata and Honda the same day to see how they compare. Like the Sonata, the Fusion/Milan have to start out lower priced to be equal. Sorry, but in the real world, that's life. Doesn't make the car less worthy in style, ride, longevity or anything. It simply means resale value has been set by historical reliability and quality levels, and Accord, then Camry and Altima, set the standards. So yes, I think most people would, with an open mind, choose the others IF all the prices were equal.
    -Loren
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    And by the way, check your sources. C&D got the Accord EX V6 to run to 60 in 4.9 seconds in their article on Modern Day Heroes. That's faster than your Sonata at 6.5 from C&D right?

    I think you meant to say 5.9 seconds? That comparison was done with the Honda Accord EX V6 6SPEED.

    In the family sedan comparison test. The Accord and Sonata tied to 60mph at 6.6 seconds. Then strongly broke to the front to clear the quarter-mile in 15.1 seconds - The Sonata's 1/4 mile time was 15.3 seconds.
  • driverdmdriverdm Member Posts: 505
    The test of an engine isn't on how long it last, but how hard it drives. Look at a W12 in a Bentley, or an AMG V8 - V10. These are the premier in engine elite.

    "The truth is, the Sonata's V6 is so smooth you can't detect it idling inside the cabin. What good would it do to make a smoother engine?"

    You can't give praise to the Sonata's smoothness and silentness and then say it would be no good to be any smoother or more silent. You'd place the Sonata on a pedestal that could not be touched. If a car was AS smoothe and silent, they still wouldn't be better because they are just equal. By the way have you tested the new Camry v6, EXTREMELY smoothe at idle and in upper speeds which are easier to reach because of the amount of horses under the hood and the torque as well.

    "V6's just don't get much better than the Sonata's" It's an untrue statement, that's all I am saying. The Accord engine rockets the car to almost sport sedan status, the Camry engine as well, the Altima engine is way ahead as way, the new GM engines. Maybe numbers should be added here:

    Sonata: 235/226
    Accord: 244/211
    Camry: 268/248
    Altima: 240/246
    Ford Engine: 265/250
    Aura: base V6: 224hp
    optional V6: 252hp

    Any questions?
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    Because the comparsion did not test the Altima. I was only responding to your comments in which you included the Accord and others running away from the Sonata, which is certainly not true. Regardless, to say Sonata is way below the top is incorrect, of course.

    As of today, no plans to make the 3.5 available in the Fusion but rumors are swirling. Aura base V6 actually is rated at 224, not 234.

    Again, this class is not about POWER. Would you like to talk about Mustangs, 'Vette, etc?

    Acutally, all of these "high-powered" family sedans (just doesn't sound right), they come at a price too :)
  • driverdmdriverdm Member Posts: 505
    Thanks for catching that one. I made the correction. The current old Accord runs just as hard as the Sonata in the automatic form and lightning quick in the manual form which the Sonata does not offer. The engine at work in the Accord to me still does it. The other cars in the segment just have a better engine. That's all. And what about when the new Accord dawns? The current one is four years old.
  • driverdmdriverdm Member Posts: 505
    Again I was responding to the comment that "V6's just don't get much better than the Sonata's" which has nothing to do with how much power is adequate. That is a separate issue, my replies center around an ENGINE COMPARISON, nothing more.

    Thanks for the catch on the Aura. The top line V6 is 252 though.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    And may I add, in 2004, the Mustang was at 260HP. Which was more than enough to get the job done. Yes, I know, more torque with the V8. But, my word, why would you ever need more HP than any of those cars have, Sonata to Aura? My 1965 Mustang had 200HP and I thought it to be great fun. Never got run over, and never a problem passing. Really now, a four banger, with say 160HP is going to be adequate. The V6's are icing on the cake. Just enjoy whatever you buy.
    -Loren

    P.S. All the Indy 500 cars were powered by Honda.
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    From the edmunds' comparison:

    Db @ idle: (1) Sonata 40.0 (2) Fusion 45.0 (3-tie) Accord 46.5 (3-tie) Camry 46.5
    Db @ full throttle: (1) Camry 73.9 (2) Sonata 74.3 (3) Accord 74.7 (4) Fusion 77.1
    Db @ 70mph cruise: (1) Sonata 69.0 (2-tie) Accord 70.0 (2-tie) Camry (2-tie) Fusion 70.0
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    GM drives me nuts doing that sort of stuff. Why don't they just go with the 3.6 V6 and get some good press for a change. Make a great car for say $21-23K range with the 3.6V6, std. side air bags, and ya know all the Hyundai goodies. They want, or is that need, a hit car. And why not call it an Opel? Saturn died when the plastic car died. It just ain't fun if ya can't bang the doors with a bat. :D Saturn Imports, your Opel dealerships in America - go for it! An American Evolution. :surprise: Loren
  • driverdmdriverdm Member Posts: 505
    Again I was replying to the post that said "V6's just don't get much better than the Sonata's" and my replies are just about an ENGINE COMPARISON, not WHAT POWER IS ADEQUATE. Two separate and not equal issues.

    To me, I like GM's new approach with the Aura. They give a good car with 224 which is no slowpoke and 252, and may give a 4-cyl at some point under that. That gives everyone what they want. I love driving. It is not just a task for me which is why I bought the Mazda6 and the Legacy was my second favorite choice. I also love styling. I can't wait for the new Mazda6 with the 3.5 265hp V6. But that is just me. I'd say anything now offered from 220 - 250 is more than reasonable. I think that the Camry took it over board this time around and we'll see what happens. At Camry prices, I'd just fork over the extra bucks and go for a G35 if I wanted real performance. I just don't understand it.
  • choe13choe13 Member Posts: 348
    "I was talking about low end rpm pull" So what is that good for if you aren't going anywhere? So if my you have better low end rpm pull and I have a faster engine, which is better again?

    what in heavens are you trying to convey here?

    I've stated clearly the sonatas engine tailors to a different driving style which is low end pull, why does the accords 0-60 or vtech have to compare to that?? its my opinion i like the low end pull, why try to be that way for?

    you gotto take it easy

    btw if you own a mazda6 then i guess it is fifth on the list on engines,since you never even mentioned it in your acclaimed v6 engine list, because that makes sense. Maybe you will get mad about that, but mazda should seriously be using their own engines than fords(which can't be trusted in engine making).
  • driverdmdriverdm Member Posts: 505
    I couldn't agree with you more on the Saturn issue. Saturn had its own production and they were plastic. That is what Saturn was. It died and turned into an Opel importer. Saturn may be the largest European operation in the US car market. They should just throw the Opel badge on it and do a campaign that Saturn is not dying but just changing its name (as GM has said killing brands is too expensive). They'd make up for the costs by the scenergies in advertising. Now they have to pay to market the car as a Saturn in one place and an Opel in another. Also, they wouldn't need different badging anymore either.
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    Agreed. I would also like to see an I-4 option, a lot sales there, as proven.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    How is that Mazda6. I like the idea of handling - said to be better than the rest - Fusion included. Any problem areas, as in recalls or fix it items when new? Are those 3.0 Duratec engines made in USA - Ford plant? For a sedan, I do like the looks. Kinda more playful sort of sedan. Just a little different too. That said, the Altima, for a sedan, is kinda stylin' too. In the 30K, I guess I would at least test out a CTS. I expect the G35 to be what, say $35K or more???
    -Loren
  • driverdmdriverdm Member Posts: 505
    So as far as cabin noise goes, the Sonata is better at idle than the Camry, at full throttle and 70mph they are negligibly different (can the naked hear tell 1 Db difference?). Got it.

    This just shows how good that Camry engine really is. It generates much more horse and more torque than the Sonata and is just as quiet at speed. The only real noise increase is at idle. Good stuff Toyota. Now if it just didn't look like it does. They ripped off some of my good Mazda6's looks and added them to the Toyota mixing put and they didn't mix too good.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    OK, does GM have a good i4. There was talk on other boards, like the Cobalt one, of how good the four is. I was never impressed with any domestic i4 engine. Are the new GM i4 engines for real? As in class leaders? Was that the engine Wards said is a good one, as in award winning. All these years I had never heard of this Wards which rates automotive engines. I take it to be some sort of authority on build quality, and such. I know my PT engine sounds like an old Model A. Don't have to ask an authority on it's rating for refinement. But it gets the job done. Gives the car that old time feel :D Hey, that's its theme, so why not!
    -Loren
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    The Bangle butt on the Camry ain't so bad. All in all, if you don't get fixed on the little nose tip area, the style is pretty good on the new Camry. Anyone drive one to see how the steering feel is for the i4 and V6 models?
  • driverdmdriverdm Member Posts: 505
    How good is my Mazda 6? Wow what a question you have asked. A while back my friends on this forum made fun of me for a long while for naming the car Kecia and expressing my love for the car. We're a good bunch on here, though we disagree (Hyundai worshippers vs the real world :P ). That was underhanded, I know :) . Anyhow, I love driving that car. I rented one and drove it from Western MA into Manhattan before I bought mine just to see how it was really like. The car handles like a dream. One other poster said the car was a psychic mind reader. It is the only car that handles like a BMW in my opinion. I spent a day driving a 3 Series and several weeks driving and Infiniti G35. There are certain things you buy in life, like a ticket to a movie you are dying to see, or a dinner that you have been waiting to eat all day, where you are happy to give the money for it. Everytime I cut the check for my Mazda, I am almost greatful to do so.

    Now about the looks. THis is a true story. I was pulled over on the Mass Pike doing 87 in a 65 real late one night, like 2am. The cop looked at my car. He said "I really like this car. Did it come with the wood inside like that?" I told him how I had to order the assorted wood pieces aftermarket (door trim pieces and a wooden medium burl shift knob which I secured to the shift staff by using the screws provided and the interior lining of a garden hose). Anyhow, he gave me a warning, told me to slow down, and I was on my way.

    By the way, the G35 starts at $30,500 with a good load of features. Only thing I'd add would be the automatic tranny and a sunroof. Everything else is there standard. Check over on the website, you'll be very surprised.
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    I have always acknowledged how good Honda/Toyota/Nissan cars are, including their engines. On the other hand, to discredit the Sonata and its engine, to say it is nowhere near the top is simply ludacris, with all due respect.

    The power issue is almost irrlevant in this class, especially when so many factors (i.e. safety, price, value, features, quality, reliablity) come before power.
  • ace35ace35 Member Posts: 131
    Are the new GM i4 engines for real?

    I think gm's ecotec 4's are ok. They seem to be fuel efficient and technologically up to date, at least in 2.4L form. The only problem i find with this engine is the trashiness that it produces while under way. Gm needs needs to send the ecotec to finishing school, to become the great 4 that it can be.

    Was that the engine Wards said is a good one

    Wards was talking about the 2.0L supercharged ecotec 4, which is used in the cobalt SS, and Ion redline.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    From the edmunds' comparison:

    Db idle: (1) Sonata 40.0 (2) Fusion 45.0 (3-tie) Accord 46.5 (3-tie) Camry 46.5
    Db full throttle: (1) Camry 73.9 (2) Sonata 74.3 (3) Accord 74.7 (4) Fusion 77.1
    Db 70mph cruise: (1) Sonata 69.0 (2-tie) Accord 70.0 (2-tie) Camry (2-tie) Fusion 70.0

    When did we go from engines to sound insulation?
  • choe13choe13 Member Posts: 348
    it is so quiet. i'm sure such a bad low class value car can be that quiet to the point you don't even know the engine is on when turning on the ignition. To me this is quite a luxurious feel

    this is one quiet car, as proven by the above stats

    sonata is a value car huh
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Agreed. I would also like to see an I-4 option, a lot sales there, as proven.

    Definitely should be an option. I imagine (and know, by looking at sales) that I'm in the majority of midsize sedan buyers. I want "enough" power, but have no need for more than say, 150 in a 3,100 pound car. I have an old Accord with 130 horsepower, and it has never gotten me killed due to lack of power.

    I have an inline-4 2006 Accord, which produces ample power, and is quite peppy and will give you a kick in the pants below, say, 70 MPH. Above that, power is adequate, if not scintillating.

    When fill-up time comes, though, I'm more excited than I could ever be flooring it up an on-ramp in a V-6 version of my car, because I've gotten 28-30 MPG on my mixed route, and as high as 38 MPG (my last run to Gulf Shores, AL) on trips. When you're in college and on a part-time job's salary, great mileage is exciting, indeed.

    Give me the high-economy engine. Shoot, my I-4 Accord of today makes the same horsepower as the V-6 Accord of 9 years ago...actually accelerates faster, and gets 5city/8hwy MPG higher than the old (1995-1997) V-6 Accord.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    sonata is a value car huh

    Value with a captial V. Not sure who has said otherwise...certianly not me. My needs led me to want the best 4-cylinder option (economy and best interior were my two buying needs at $21k. The Accord EX I-4 filled my need the best, and hence gave me the best value).
  • ace35ace35 Member Posts: 131
    The Lambda V6 (Sonata) is a excellent engine, its been unanimously praised by auto journalist for its excellent refinement, smoothness, and power. I have not read any review that says the Lambda lacks in anything regarding the competitors V6's. So for some to say it doesnt compare is just not true, this engine is completely up to date and im sure will prove very durable and reliable. For the cost of the Sonata as a whole i feel like hyundai is crazy for giving so much car for the money, but then again im sure there on to something, i bet anyone maybe 5 yrs from now or 10 hyundai is gonna be right where toyota is, if not further upstream.
  • driverdmdriverdm Member Posts: 505
    Again I was replying to the post that said "V6's just don't get much better than the Sonata's".

    "I have not read any review that says the Lambda lacks in anything regarding the competitors V6's."
    Here we go. You don't need to read it in a review, look at the numbers for hp and torque. You're going to say in a pure engine comparison, that the Lambda isn't lacking compared to the V6 in the Camry or Altima? I never said it does not compare. I am just saying that it isn't the best in its class and is outdone by several other entries. If Lambda is so good how come the Nissan VQ keeps walking away with the engine awards year after year after year? How come the reviews not only put the Camry as number one all the time but mention its engine as a significant reason why it is there. Sure the review will give the Sonata's engine a 7/10 but then will give the Camry a 10/10 as well as the Altima, and the Honda. Look at the numbers, they have no SUBJECTIVITY in them.
  • driverdmdriverdm Member Posts: 505
    HP/Torque:

    Sonata: 235/226
    Accord: 244/211
    Camry: 268/248
    Altima: 240/246
    Ford Engine: 265/250
    Aura: base V6: 224hp
    optional V6: 252hp
  • driverdmdriverdm Member Posts: 505
    joe97, you've got to read the beginning of the discussion before posting because the over all car WAS NOT the discussion. It was strictly an engine comparison from its inception up until now.

    "safety, price, value, features, quality, reliablity"
    What in the world do they have to do with a strictly engine comparison? I never discredited the Sonata, I actually said that anything between 220 - 250 is adequate for the class and Toyota went overboard with the Camry engine. However, in a strict engine comparison, how can you not give Toyota a significant advantage over the Sonata? DOES THE SONATA'S ENGINE, NOT CAR, REALLY COMPETE WITH THE TOYOTA'S? :mad:
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Yeah, you doooooo like that car. Well I owned a Miata I liked.
    I did notice some high cost of repairs listed on this site:
    see on this page the Estimate Repair Costs
    They appear to be higher than all the others in the same class of cars. Don't know why. Suspension and joints cost = ouch!
    Kinda like the car, other than seeing the repair costs. Will interesting to see how the Fusion is, once that one is out a couple of years, and they have the data on that car.
    -Loren
  • derrado1derrado1 Member Posts: 194
    I'll tell you what, I never would have considered a Camry before the '07 model. The last generation was boring, dopey-looking, lumpy... Call it what you want, a Japanese Buick, an appliance.

    This new model though appears much more athletic, a MUCH better interior (finally, some symmetry! The '06 had a foul looking interior) and it appears as though it could actually handle.

    The old model, sure, good, reliable transport. But I would have taken pretty much anything over it.
  • ace35ace35 Member Posts: 131
    Ok the only thing you seem to be pointing out are hp/tq. #'s. My point was to say the Sonata V6 is a great engine on other merits, such as NVH, refinement,ect... so follow me here if you will. The Sonata engine is just as good as the others. I DID NOT SAY AS POWERFUL..!!! But its comparable to the camcords/altima, ect...

    And BTW these are midsize vehicles, so just because hyundai didnt stuff a 300 hp V6 in the Sonata does that make it less competitive ?

    Im sure just as honda fiddled with the 3.0L vtec to get more power hyundai can surely do the same with the 3.3L, but for what, it makes excellent power just as is.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Anyone owned a Hyundai with that 2.7 V6 for a number of years? Reliable? I looked at a Tiburon with V6, and kinda liked the car. Yes, not the HP of the rest talked about here, but it still seemed like it was spunky enough. Just wondering how it has worked out for people over time. I assume it has been in the sedans, like the Sonata, for awhile now. Any comments on smoothness? Gas mileage? Quirks?

    And on another train of thought. How about the looks of say the Sonata vs. Azera and the Altima vs. Maxima ? I know it is a lot of personal preference, but it seems like I am kinda liking the less expensive, looks wise, in both cases. Aside of luxury items and size - only the looks, is what I am talking about.
  • choe13choe13 Member Posts: 348
    the sonata comes in third place, because its cup holder is a little big? the driving position is unatural?? talk about nitpicking to the max to get this car to come third.

    They never mention about the engine really(cept the picture part where it states it is one of the best engines in the comparison), they do mention how well it is balanced between luxury and sport ride, it being the quietest on highway driving and braking(but mention it, like all of these things are sort of small potatoes in what consumers really want compared to a size of cupholders w)

    Sorry to say but that is ridiculous, how has a cupholder size has any sort of important significance compared to some nice brakes in waht a midsize cars essentials should be. This is beyond me

    Lstly where is the praise about the safety features? it is a generation behind since it benchmarked the camcord apparently to this writer(which is wrong when they benchmarked the audi a6 and lexus 330) yet this car can be the quietest on the highway compared to even a new camry. Doesn't make much sense how can a gen behind benchmark car be the quietest than a gen ahead car?

    Second opions were the most common sense aspect of thsi comparison test and both sr editiors lean towards choosing the sonata as the smart buy still and sounds like it was the silent winner of the test considering all realistic factors

    If anyone else knows a comparision of these three cars on other auto sites , please share.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Or they can use the 3.8 as an optional engine, though it would compete with their own Azera. Oh well, its all good! Even the i4 is plenty HP to get it done, except at the drag strip.
    -Loren
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    the driving position is unatural?? talk about nitpicking to the max to get this car to come third.

    Interesting...I've actually noted one issue with the Sonata that I've heard time and time again, with many posters and testers, and that is that the seat/driving position is not particularly comfortable. That would kill a deal for me, except that I didn't notice it when I was behind the wheel. I didn't stay in it for long though, as the interior of the GLS I-4 model was not what I was looking for, simply put.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Yes, what of the driving position? What are they talking about? And the seats being less than the best. Should one opt. for the top of the line to get the lumbar support seats. Worth the extra bucks? Are the leather seats good - hot, as in not ventilated? Any long drive reports on the various seats available-- likes, and dislikes on the issue of Sonata seating?
    -Loren
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Oh well, its all good! Even the i4 is plenty HP to get it done, except at the drag strip.

    Exactly!
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    I forget the car now, as I have tried the seat in many, but it had a strange position. This car pointed me slightly to the left of center, like I was slightly looking towards that A pillar. That was strange. Some cars have that steering column which is slanted a bit - I think the old Mustang is that was before '05. I guess it doesn't matter, but it throws me at first. Anyway, I wonder if it was the Sonata that has the seat which is pointed to the left???
    -Loren
  • driverdmdriverdm Member Posts: 505
    When you hear engine comparison, the main two factors are hp and torque. Look at the AMG and W12 engines. Look at the 3.5 IS350 engine. The reason the IS is what it is is because it gives you 305hp. Look at the Infiniti G35 or M45, they are hp rockets. With engines, those are the big critieria. They have been since before you and I were born and probably will be fair after we are gone. The Kia V6 is surely smoothe and quiet but it gives a measely 185hp, which is a major drawback that everyone agrees with.
  • driverdmdriverdm Member Posts: 505
    I thought when the Sonata was compared to a 3 Series pages back that I had heard it all. Now it is definitely gone up a notch. Now the fact that the Toyota makes more horse and torque and is basically just as queit, doesn't give it the edge in engines. The Sonata's is only marginally worse in a pure engine comparison. Every dead engine engineer and designer have rolled over several times tonight as during their lives they strived for more refinement and more power year after year. Toyota's V6 gives you more power, more refinement, and top gas mileage and still the Sonata's is just as good? Come on now, many people have stated that they no longer come to this forum because the posts about the Sonata are ridiculous and lack logic, sense, and reason. This again is a classic example. The moderated has even asked to change the subject from this car. This is a comparison forum, your car can't win in every aspect, just face it and call it a night. 268 compared to 234 isn't much of a logic tests as it has been made out to be.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Hey those G35 repair bills look pretty high...
    costs
    Perhaps they are looking at AWD models? Anyway, lots of repair areas look expensive. I guess you have the bucks to pay, or get a really good extended warranty. In this case warranty does pay! One really nice looking car in that coupe.
    Interesting how little is known of the new Accord. Big secret, and a well hidden test car. Wonder if it goes cab forward design too. Speaking of which, I liked the old 300M.
    -Loren
  • cxccxc Member Posts: 122
    HP/Torque are not all. The average torque that is the peak torque over rpm is what makes a car move and driving dynamic. Do not get fooled by the game played by car makers. Here are the complete hard facts:

    BMW 330: 255HP6600 rpm, 220 ft-lbs2750 rpm, average torque= 0.080 ft-lbs/rpm
    Sonata :235 HP6000rpm, 226 ft-lbs3500 rpm, average torque=0.065 ft-lbs/rpm
    Camry: 268 HP6200 rpm, 248 ft-lbs4700 rpm, average torque = 0.053 ft-lbs/rpm
    Accord: 244HP6224rpm, 211 ft-lbs5000 rpm, average torque = 0.041 ft-lbs/rpm

    The very high average torque of BMW 330 makes it respond to the press of its acceleration pedal like a rabbit while both Camry and Accord are like a turtle. In other words, a BMW 330 driver feels the engine twice more powerful than when driving Accord V6. Sonata is more responsive than both Camry and Accord, but not near BMW. This is part of the reason that makes BMW a driving machine.
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    I am coming from a different standpoint. Yes, the Sonata engine isn't superior than others, but that's not to say the Lambda 3.3 isn't up to par with the rest of the class; as a matter of fact, very much so. While you are arguing purely on the power comparison, and I agree with you that there are cars run to the 60 faster, but my standpoint being, the majority of consumers in this class simply don't care about power - it is an irrelevant issue in this class. Again, if the customer focus is on power, then we would certainly be looking in a different segement. Consumers in this class want the whole package, need not be superior in every category but adequate enough for their likes. It's safe to say every car in the class accomplish the need for the various needs of customers - some excel in one area, while others excel in another.

    Let this particular topic close and let's move on to something applies more to the real-world.
  • bobadbobad Member Posts: 1,587
    Sonata: 235/226
    Accord: 244/211
    Camry: 268/248
    Altima: 240/246
    Ford Engine: 265/250
    Aura: base V6: 224hp
    Optional V6: 252hp

    Are you suggesting that I pay $6K more for 20-30 more HP, when the engine is no smoother or refined? That just makes me laugh, because I almost got the I4. :D:D:D

    I ended up getting the V6 because the I4 and V6 cost virtually the same, and the mileage was within 2-3mph.

    You need to quit saying that I think the Sonata's V6 is the best. I don't know which is best, but my money goes on Accord, by a narrow margin. The Sonata V6 is designed for 300K miles, but I only need 150K, so I think I should be OK, don't you? ;)
  • cxccxc Member Posts: 122
    You made right decision in choosing Accord I4 over Accord V6 because both Accord I4 and Accord V6 have about the same average torque (=0.04 ft-lbs/rpm). When driving, you feel Accord I4 just as powerful as Accord V6. In other words, Accord I4 has about the same USEFUL HP as Accord V6.
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