Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!

Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

189111314235

Comments

  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    Sonata has prompted some serious changes in the market place as of late.

    Here is a gist of what the new Accord will be getting come Sept.

    New exterior styling on both Accord sedan and coupe include new front bumper and grille design, rear bumper and trunk lid design with integrated third brake light, LED taillights, re-styled 16" and 17" alloy wheels and new exhaust finishers.

    Four new colors are added to the line-up: Royal Blue Pearl, Alabaster Silver Metallic, Cool Blue Metallic (Coupe) and Carbon Bronze Pearl.

    Performance enhancements

    The 3.0-liter VTEC V6 engine's output increases to 244 horsepower @ 6250 rpm and 211 lbs.-ft of torque at 5000 rpm; new engine features include Drive-By-Wire (DBW) throttle control and high performance intake and exhaust valve timing. (Horsepower and torque calculations reflect new SAE J1349 procedures revised August 2004.)

    The 2.4-liter i-VTEC 4-cylinder engine's output increases to 166 horsepower @ 5800 rpm and 160 lbs.-ft of torque at 4000 rpm; new features include Drive-By-Wire (DBW) throttle control and high performance intake and exhaust valve timing. (Horsepower and torque calculations reflect new SAE J1349 procedures revised August 2004.)

    A sport-oriented Accord Sedan EX V6 is available with a 6-speed manual transmission.

    All V6 coupes and sedans have revised suspension bushings and damping rates to complement the upgraded 17" wheel and tire packages.

    All V6 models receive Vehicle Stability Assist (VSA) and Brake Assist.

    New interior styling

    Revised interior styling includes new steering wheel design, new seat fabrics, new shift knob on automatic transmission models, restyled instrument panel and satin chrome vent accents.

    Other enhancements

    Smart Maintenance System automatically calculates common vehicle service intervals.

    Enhanced sound deadening materials reduce Noise, Vibration and Harshness (NVH).

    Additional safety measures include daytime running lamps and front passenger seat belt reminder.

    Heated side mirrors are added to EX and V6 models.

    Revised trim levels/packages

    Value Package (VP) replaces DX sedan trim level; new standard features include air conditioning, keyless entry, power locks and cruise control.

    LX Special Edition is added; standard features include 16" alloy wheels, rear disc brakes and Electronic Brake Distribution, in-dash CD changer, steering-wheel-mounted audio controls, body color side sills and carbon fiber-look interior accents.

    LX V6 coupe and sedan models add new features, including power moonroof, 17" alloy wheels, VSA and heated side mirrors.

    Pictures of course are here as well..

    image
    image

    Go to Vtec.net for more pics...

    Looks like Honda decided to let the Sonata keep the Buick-like Rear end and go for a more Pontiac Grand Prix looking one.
    Cars looks a LOT better IMO.
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    Looks great!
    I would have waited for it, but i couldn't survive another year with my Corolla's horrible tires.
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    But if things work out for me, I'll be picking up a left over 07 when I graduate, unless of course the next gen. 08 is very impressive.
  • choe13choe13 Member Posts: 348
    not sure that it looks alot better, the front and back do not harmonize still. It looks like the tsx a little. The real gem sounds like their new engine with the drive by wire tech.

    I personally thought with hyundai offering alot more standard features they would at least add some like ABS on all cars or something, but of course honda is honda

    The 07 camry whenever it comes, i would assume will offer more equipment, could take the lead in a common family crowed market sales but the 06 sonata still cheaper and vastly equal quality will definitely have their own kind of customers by then
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    The next gen. Accord is probably going to be impressive. I might trade-in my 05 for the NG Accord. Unless the NG Camry/Altima/6 are more impressive.
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    ABS is standard on all models of the Accord already.
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    ABS has been standard on the Accord since the 2003 model. Didn't even side airbags and curtains become standard on all models since 2005?

    I would have liked to have seen 4 wheel disc brakes on the VP and LX.

    And a power driver's seat on the LX and EX would DEFINATELY be nice.

    If something should happen to my beloved Altima, I'd go right down to the Honda dealership and get me an LXV6. It looks to be a real value now compared to before.

    A V6, cloth, sunroof, VSC, 17s, etc. and still cheaper than the EXV6.
    Makes me wish my car had been totalled when I was in my accident last month.
  • truethattruethat Member Posts: 123
    I'm not diggin' the new Accord's tail light design...
    Not that the car isn't a very good car...
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    It is an improvement, although there's something about it that says "Chrysler"--reminicent of the Sebring perhaps. The other updates look good, including the added insulation--might cut down on road noise. The new fabrics are welcome too. But instead of changing an already good steering wheel, I wish Honda would put some money into the driver's seat height adjuster--even if it were dual knobs on the low-end Accords. Also how about heated mirrors on all Accords? Also I'd love to see a 6 speed in the 4-cylinder cars, even if only in the EX. I wonder what kind of highway mpg the 4-banger could get with a 6th cog? Better than the HAH maybe.
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    "Makes me wish my car had been totalled when I was in my accident last month."
    Yes provided you're alive to enjoy the new Accord :P
    Glade to hear you're fine.

    And yes Side curtain airbags are standard on the 05 models.
  • truethattruethat Member Posts: 123
    "Toyota, Nissan and Honda also posted record sales."

    True. Toyota, Nissan and Hyundai all set monthly records. Honda didn't but very
    very strong sales as well indeed.

    Canadian Press July auto industry report
    (It's US sales not Canadian)

    "Toyota's sales were up 12.2 per cent in July and 11.6 per cent for the January-July period. Honda Motor Co.'s sales rose 14.5 per cent last month, boosted by a 30 per cent increase in truck sales. Honda's sales were up 3.5 per cent for the year. Nissan's 19 per cent jump in business last month was led by a 24 per cent increase in truck sales. Nissan's overall sales were up 16 per cent in the first seven months of the year. Hyundai reported a 14.9 per cent increase in July, and the South Korean automaker's sales are up 10.9 per cent for the year."

    Asians are kicking butt! :P Nissan's rebound (or whatever you want to call it)
    is quite impressive. Honda could use a little more momentum. Toyota seems
    invincible right now (at least to me).
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    "Asians are kicking butt! Nissan's rebound (or whatever you want to call it)
    is quite impressive. Honda could use a little more momentum. Toyota seems
    invincible right now (at least to me)."


    Asians are kicking butt :P
    Toyota is literally invincible
    Honda is a little slow but is still doing very well
    Nissan is growing in sales rapidly

    The domestics better come up with a good plan fast.
  • newcar31newcar31 Member Posts: 3,711
    "I wonder what kind of highway mpg the 4-banger could get with a 6th cog?"

    Probably the same highway mpg it gets with the 5th cog right now. 5th gear on a 5sp and 6th gear on a 6sp would be overdrive gears in a car like the Accord. If Honda offered a 6sp, the overall ratio in the overdrive gear would probably be the same, or close, to what the 5sp overdrive is now. I wouldn't be surprised if the Accord 5sp manual had a taller overdrive than the TSX 6sp manual. Anyone know?
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    We have a all kinds of new cars coming out in the next couple years.

    Toyota has a new Camry and RAV for 2007.
    Nissan has a new Altima, Sentra and two subcompact cars by MY2007. Also rumors of a CRV/RAV4 competitor in 2007 as well.
    Honda will have the FIT, Civic and facelifted Accord by at least MY2007.
    Hyundai is coming out with the new Santa Fe, Azera and a minivan
    VW is coming out with a Cabrio, Minivan, small SUV.
    DCX has new "Cloud Cars" for 2007(?)
    The Saturn Aura (beautiful BTW) will be here by 2007.
    The Ford Fusion/Milan/Zephyr will be here by Sept. of this year. (I don't care for them much though)
    A facelifted Mazda6 hits the streets in Sept or Nov of this year.
    The Subaru Legacy will get a facelift this year too I believe.

    Bascially the days of buying a new car are getting more and more interesting by the day it seems.

    Competition is great. My personal favorite car companies right now are Honda and Nissan, but I've got my eyes on Hyundai as of late.

    Also, I got a gift certificate in the mail from Hyundai. Something about $25 bucks for test driving the new Sonata, anybody done this yet?

    Thanks in advance.

    I can't WAIT until the 07 Camry and Altima get here....

    And Ctalk, thanks for the kind words. My mother and I were fine in the accident, but the car isn't totaled. It has been out of service for nearly a month and I'll get it back this Friday. I'm personally TIRED of my 1991 Honda Accord EX and will be so glad when I get my 05 Altima back.
  • truethattruethat Member Posts: 123
    Toyota Camry: Up 3.7% to 43,004 from 41,459
    Honda Accord: Down 3.2% to 36,129 from 37,315
    Nissan Altima: Up 8.4% to 24,865 from 22,933
    Hyundai Sonata: Up 1.7% to 9,768 from 9,605
    Mazda 6: Up 60.5% to 8,979 from 5,593
    Kia Optima: Up 44% to 4,958 from 3,443

    All the adjustments confuse me, so I calculated the percentage myself.
    Whoa, look at Mazda6 and Kia Optima, too!

    Detroit Free Press report of all car companies here.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Don't forget for Hyundai the new Elantra next fall (which could be in mid-sized territory based on the up-sizing of the Accent and Sonata) and the Tiburon replacement after that. And we should get at least two new mid-sized hybrids next year, the Altima and the Camry--and maybe the Fusion.

    I got two Target gift certificates for stopping into my Hyundai dealer for a Sonata preview show (didn't have to drive one but did for the fun of it). But I had to go there to get them--they didn't arrive in the mail.
  • w9cww9cw Member Posts: 888
    I've been a fan of Honda and Toyota for years, although I've also owned a Mazda and a Nissan. I'm in the market for a new car, and have been driving and carefully inspecting several Asian marques since last March. What I've discovered is rather interesting, and somewhat surprising.

    First of all, the apparent build quality (at least from a visual inspection of exteriors and interiors) of the Accords and Camrys that I've driven is, generally speaking, a bit inconsistent. Almost every Camry that I've driven, or inspected, has mis-aligned (albeit minor) rear doors. If one sights down each side from the rear, the door lower beltline trim pieces do not line up. And, at least 1 out of 2 Camrys have upper panel door trim anomalies on the driver's door. Of course, these are only of aesthetic value, and the mechanicals are probably fine, but it does make one question the overall attention to detail and QC at the Kentucky plant.

    I've also noted mis-aligned trunks and rear doors on several Accords that I test drove. The intereior, however, tends to have better attention to detail than the Camry.

    Here is the suprise -- I've never, ever . . . looked at a Hyundai until they launched the new 2006 Sonata. The exterior build quality appears excellent. Everything lines up properly, and all seams match. I've noted a few very minor glitches in the Sonata interior, but nothing glaring. With such attention to detail, including usiing a hydraulic strut for the hood, plus hood blanket insulation, and a unique strut/hinge system for the trunk lid -- also covered with insulation -- the Sonata appears, on the surface, to be built well. Only time will tell of its mechanical reliability, since both the inline 4 and V6 are new designs, both of which use timing chains, not belts -- which is generally considered an improvement.

    Nevertheless, it appears Hyundai is improving with each new model. I'm old enough (58) to remember when Honda, Nissan (then Datsun), and Toyota launched cars in the USA. I owned a 1968 Toyota Corona, and was the first person to drive a Honda 600 in this area! With all due respect, the early Japanese cars were no great gems either, and I think we may now be witnessing Hyundai evolving into a quality auto manufacturer.

    I certainly hope Honda, Toyota, et. al. are not resting on their laurels, but an objective comparison does raise some questions.
  • autonomousautonomous Member Posts: 1,769
    If I am reading the chart properly, the Mazda6 appears not to have had any sales.
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    Nop you read it right :P never noticed that.

    http://www.automobear.com/index_home_content.html
    Heres the site i got it from, under mainstreamers. Did Mazda 6 get that little sales? :confuse:

    *They just reviewed the Sonata
  • truethattruethat Member Posts: 123
    Fascinating review...
    I like the article a lot. Thank you very much for the article.
    The best review of anything I've read in a while.
    I totally agree with what the article says.
  • choe13choe13 Member Posts: 348
    I feel the writer did hit alot of good points, and did it in a fashion that anyone and everyone could understand(even biased camcord owners). I did appreciate alot of the little technical talks he made that most average consumers nor car editors probably knew.

    My disappointments however come that, i got the feeling he wants a car that is Honda + Camry + Mazda 6. I feel the car facinated him alot, and gave him something extra that most other mid size will not at this time. With this in my opinion i think he was trying to find the pot in the rainbow and forgot that after all this is a family car trying to acomodate to the common family drivers. For example he starts to praise the cars ability to drive smooth straightly and its sophicated suspension set up but then he starts to nitpick about steering feel, personally i didn't think that was very fair. Does he expect this car to run with bmw??

    Most family drivers won't have steering feel as their high priority, and hyundai knew this. Thus they concentrated a fair amount on straight driving sophistication(As the editor explained in the article). To me the steering is not Mazda 6 level, but it felt better than the camry, and very close to the accord and at this segment where cost means something there are always going to be a tradeoff(sonata great ride, competent handling, mazda 6 great handling, competent ride)

    otherwise from this nitpick, and his problem with their marketing strategy, which i think is excellent, it was the fairest but positive review i've read of the sonata.
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    Didn't Mazda say that the M6 should have never been sold here?

    I read that some place.

    But the Mazda3 on the otherhand and been a big hit here and in Canada.
  • autonomousautonomous Member Posts: 1,769
    Nop you read it right never noticed that.

    http://www.automobear.com/index_home_content.html
    Heres the site i got it from, under mainstreamers. Did Mazda 6 get that little sales?


    No, I think there is something wrong with their "statistics". Check the entry level vehicles to see what they show for the hugely popular Mazda3. I think the Bear was hibernating when it came to Mazda.
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    haven't talked about this car in a while,
    any thoughts on the first drive edmunds did?

    "The Right Stuff
    Sporty and comfortable, with a pleasantly freshened look, the new Volkswagen Passat has everything it takes to attract a wider group of buyers than in the past. It's now up to VW's dealers to make the ownership experience fully enjoyable"
    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=106641
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    It seems they dont have the # of sales for Mazda.
    Mazda 6 isn't going well anyways, its sales are pretty close to Kia Optima's i believe.
  • autonomousautonomous Member Posts: 1,769
    Judging by canadiandriver.com Mazda3 sales are spectacular in Canada; the Mazda6 seems popular also although I have not seen the numbers for it. I would be surprised if this was not also the case for Mazda in the US. I think the information on the site (http://www.automobear.com/index_home_content.html)
    is questionable and a little disturbing considering it could be giving a false impression of the market place.
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    U.S. Sales
    Toyota Camry: 43,004
    Honda Accord: 36,129
    Nissan Altima: 24,865
    Hyundai Sonata: 9,768
    Mazda 6: 8,979
    Kia Optima: 4,958

    They dont seem popular in the U.S, but the number of sales are still increasing.
    http://www.freep.com/news/statewire/sw119289_20050802.htm
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    You'll be surprised then.

    Because in the United States, Mazda hasn't done so hot in the last couple years.

    The Mazda3 is like the second best selling car in Canada, right?

    In the U.S. it isn't even in the Top 15. I have never understood this though. Mazda's cars just don't seem to be doing all that great in the United States. The 3 is doing pretty good, but the Mazda6 hasn't done very well at all.

    Mazda themselves have stated that the Mazda6 was a mistake in this country. I have always felt that the Mazda3 was a better car (build quality wise) than the Mazda6 is.

    I don't have July's sales data, but here is what Mazda themselves released for the June sales data.

    Mazda3 has sold 51,774 units for MY2005 up until this past June.
    Mazda6 has sold 37,771 units for MY2005 up until this past June.

    Sales for the same time frame for 2004 where 41,972 (3) and 34,444 (6)

    July data hasn't been posted yet on Mazda's website.

    Not very high numbers compared to Honda, Toyota, Nissan.
  • autonomousautonomous Member Posts: 1,769
    If I am reading the Detroit Free Press article http://www.freep.com/news/statewire/sw119289_20050802.htm
    correctly Mazda's cars had a great July (up 26%) and good year (up 5%). Compare that to the poor performance of the Honda car lineup.
    You're correct that the overall numbers are dwarfed by the big three Japanese brands (Toyota, Honda, and Nissan) and other players, like Hyundai. Kia sells more cars in the US than Mazda, amazing!

    July 2005 for Mazda
    Car: 19,081 vs. 15,728, up 26 percent
    Truck: 5,739 vs. 7,759, down 23 percent
    TOTAL: 24,820 vs. 23,487, up 10 percent

    2005 Year-to-date
    Car: 120,447 vs. 116,398, up 5 percent
    Truck: 39,361 vs. 47,625, down 16 percent
    TOTAL: 159,808 vs. 164,023, down 1 percent
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/050405-3.htm

    This is the earliest one i could find.
    1. Honda Civic Sedan/Coupe
    2. Mazda3
    3. Toyota Corolla
    4. Toyota Echo
    5. Pontiac Sunfire
    6. Ford Focus
    7. Chevrolet Cavalier
    8. Honda Accord
    9. Chevrolet Malibu
    10. Nissan Altima
  • haefrhaefr Member Posts: 600
    You could very well be right, oldjoe. The current generation Honda I-4 is rated within 4 hp. of the previous generation Hyundai Sonata's 2.7L V-6. That generation Hyundai Sonata V-6 is heavier than the current generation Accord I-4 by around 200+ lbs and was not available with a standard transmission after model year 2000. Also, its automatic transmission was a 4-sp design, whereas the Honda Accord from '03 and later enjoys the flexibility of an extra forward gear range regardless of engine. So when comparing these two cars, at least make certain they're both equipped with automatics. I came to my '03 Sonata V-6 after a grinding collision totaled my reverred '96 Accord I-4. Finances being what they were at the time, the Sonata purchase made sense. My Sonata definitely outpulls my old Accord (both, 4-sp automatics). The new Sonatas with the V-6 option have a 240 hp 3.3L V-6 and, finally, a 5-sp automatic. (not on the I-4, though - curious since that engine option could most use the advantage of an extra forward gear...) Someone would have to prove to me that a properly broken-in Sonata with this brand new design V-6 engine would be "eaten alive" by an '03 or newer Accord I-4, also properly broken-in. The one published acceleration stat I've seen on the new Sonata with this new engine, from "Car & Driver, posted a 0-60 mph run of 7 seconds flat. This might be a little optomistic (or, perhaps run with a prep'd car Hyundai had lent C&D*), but I doubt the Sonata would do worse than the 7.3 - 7.5 second range, regardless. Besides, there's more to a car than its power - perceived or real. In the meantime, my Sonata V-6 is returning an honest 22+ mpg city and 31+ highway. (this from manual calculations, not some in-the-dash "trip computer" that averages successive returns) My issues with the Sonata aren't with its performance and fuel economy, but rather its so-so ride and handling characteristics - each big and little road irregularity is telegraphed right to my butt (at least my Accord soaked up the little ones), and I have to "drive" the Sonata constantly (don't even ask about "rain grooves", which my Accord virtually ignored, and both cars, by the way, came from the factory with Michelin MXV4+ 65 series rubber). The Accord always seemed to "anticipate" where I intended to go. Barring the unforeseen, I'm pretty certain my next car purchase in late 2008 will be another Accord. Final note in this comparison - like the Accord, my Sonata is still rock solid and rattle-free, but has had one more warranty claim than the Accord. I had to have the cabin ceiling lamp replaced shortly after delivery because of a faulty switch. My Accord never required a visit to the dealer.

    *People often charge that "Consumer Reports" under reports the performance capabilities of the cars they test because their testers aren't as attuned to performance driving skills as well as their counterparts at the auto enthusiast magazines - and that's certainly possible. But, I believe CR purchases their test vehicles at retail rather than have them provided by the manufacturers just to avoid the possibility the manufacturers have tweaked the loaners a wee bit. It also avoids any possibility that some manufacturer rep might offer a CR tester a little "encouragement" under the table for a favorable review.
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    ?
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    Got it from here...
    http://www.carspyshots.net/zerothread?id=15380&page=9
    They covered it up pretty well...
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    Before you know it, we'll began seeing pics of the next Altima.
  • autonomousautonomous Member Posts: 1,769
    The latest numbers are basically the same for the total vehicle count;
    however, the Mazda3 outsold the Honda Civic/SI for the month of July
    (this is not the first month this has happened).

    See http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/050803-1.htm
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    The new Civic is coming out soon... we'll see how it stacks up against the Mazda 3. I think it'll do pretty well. I mean the current Civic is near the end of its generation and is still selling well.

    "Honda still leads year-to-date light passenger car sales, with 29,367 Civic sedan and coupes sold; it's followed by the Mazda3, Toyota Corolla, Toyota Echo, Pontiac Sunfire, Ford Focus, Honda Accord, Toyota Matrix, Toyota Camry, and Chrysler Sebring sedan."

    This forum is not about Civic or Mazda 3... so lets get back on topic.
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    looks nice but is a bit pricey. It competes more with the Acura TL/ES330 crowd. It has a huge price range between models. It bases at $22,900 and can get close to $40,000 for the 3.6 model with all options. For that kind of money I'll spend an extra $8000 and get an Acura RL.
  • truethattruethat Member Posts: 123
    I agree.
    I could get so much better (more value) cars with that kind of money.
    It's not like VW carries so much of a "luxury" status, either.
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    Audi has a "luxury" status
    I find it funny that Edmunds calls the Passat a great value.
    I have no clue why Volkswagon makes its cars so high-end, they have Audi already..
    A Fully loaded Azera or Avalon would be cheaper then the top of the line Volkswagon Passat.
  • truethattruethat Member Posts: 123
    I feel the same.
  • choe13choe13 Member Posts: 348
    VW is a very weird company. When they made W12 for their passat i thought that was one of the dumbest moves ever.

    If i had to buy the passat or A4 , with the price savings and almost equal craftmanship , its a no brainer a full loaded passat would be bought over a bare A4.

    puzzling company
  • 600kgolfgt600kgolfgt Member Posts: 690
    >When they made W12 for their passat i thought that was one of the dumbest moves ever.

    The W12 is only available in the Phaeton and the Audi A8.
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    and it really wasn't a smart move by VW...
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    W12 on the Phaeton was also a dumb move...
    I seriously dont understand why is VW making its car line so luxurious and pricey... they have audi already.
  • truethattruethat Member Posts: 123
    image
    VW is pretty much the only major player in the market who lost sales in July.
    I really don't understand why a company like VW (with amazing abilities to
    design and manufacture cars) struggles so much. Bad strategy, I guess.
  • truethattruethat Member Posts: 123
    I've seen very different (completely opposite, actually) reviews on Sonata's
    quiteness especially on rough road surfaces. Personally, I didn't feel any problem
    when I test-drove it. Could it be some kind of manufacture irregularities?

    Anyways, this IMO is not the most thorough review I've read, but I'm sure a lot of
    people will read it and decide for themselves.

    The reviewer is lukeworm about the car, at best, to sum it up.
    "Overall score: The next time I see someone driving a brand-new Honda Accord, I'm not going to think, "Man, what a dope. He should have bought the Hyundai Sonata.""
    http://money.cnn.com/2005/08/03/Autos/carreviews/hyundai_sonata/
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    But he also said it's worth checking out the '06 Sonata. So he must think it's a good car.

    A lot has to do with the road surface. If he was driving over the terrible streets of NYC, for example, that could have caused the noise. What would be more valuable is not just to comment on the noise but to compare it to that in other cars, e.g. how does it compare to the Accord and Camry? That's why I like comparos, where the reviewers drive the cars over the same roads.
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    I dont know what to say... :P

    He still said it was worth a look.

    I few days ago i was looking at the cosumers reports magazine and they did a first drive (or first look) of a Sonata, and said "it was only OK"

    About VW : The problem is VW wants to change its brand into a luxury brand, and FORGOT that they had Audi already. And first of all, VW doesn't have the 'brand prestige' Audi has. Audi is already known as a pretty high-end luxury brand.

    Definitely Bad strategy...
This discussion has been closed.