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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

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Comments

  • lweisslweiss Member Posts: 342
    One explanation that I read about VW's bad decisions came from one of the business magazines- with the drop in the value of the dollar against the Euro during the past few years, they were desparate to increase profits in the US- so they went against their roots (cheap, fun to drive VW bugs and Jettas) and tried to go upmarket- with disasterous results. But now, even Audi and BMW and Mercedes are trying to hold their own in Germany against Lexus and Acura (the Asians are there too!).
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    Yes, this is the first time I've ever seen one on the road, but I live in a small town...so that's not unusual.

    It looked good on the open road compared to at the dealership.

    It was a gold GLS model.

    I for one am NOT crazy about the 16 inch wheels they give the car. Bland IMO. The 17s look so so so much better.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,601
    Have you seen alot of '05 Sonata's?

    As you know, the '06 distribution started slowly to assure quality control. Temporary limited availability.

    I was at the local dealer today for oil change. They only had one '06 on the lot, White GL with manual tranny. I also haven't seen any '06s on the road (maybe I just don't recognize them). In the past 6 months I've seen alot of 03-05 body style Sonata's. Also Elantra's. On the road, I can't tell an '03 from an '04 or an '05 Sonata and wouldn't be able to do that for an Accord or Camry.
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    I've seen more Accord's and Camry's then Sonata's.
    And the number of sales prove that there are more on the road. (both U.S. and Canada)

    I can tell the 05's from 04's 03's....
    Camry got a refresh very easy to tell (chrome grill, new lights)
    Accord is easy to tell from the behind (red lights)
    I tend to notice these things :P

    Anyways, i was talking about Canada (Toronto)
    they're filled with Accord's and Camry's.

    Accord is selling very well in Canada, at the moment its the best selling mid-size.

    Year-to-date sales
    Civic
    Mazda3
    Toyota Corolla
    Toyota Echo
    Pontiac Sunfire
    Ford Focus
    Honda Accord
    Toyota Matrix
    Toyota Camry
    Chrysler Sebring sedan

    http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/050803-1.htm
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    And the lone Accord was purchased by a person who owned a 2002 Accord (that he purchased after owning a 2001 Accord that got totalled...he had a :sick: 1999 Nissan Maxima before the 2001 Accord). One Camry purchased by a former owner of a 2002 Accord. Other cars traded in: Chevy Lumina (2), Buick Century, Ford Windstar, 3 other older Camrys.
    I have not seen any VW newer than 5 or 6 years old in our neighborhood and only 1 Hyundai (a 5 or 6 year old Sonata) but there have been 4 new PT Cruisers. ;)
  • truethattruethat Member Posts: 123
    There is a '05 (or '04) Sonata seating right across the street, but I haven't seen
    a single '06 Sonata in Providence, RI.
    I got the impression from the local dealers that they wanted to get rid of '05
    Sonatas before anything else, maybe that's why.
    There have been tons of Sonata ads on TV (too many I tend to think), so I suspect
    I'll see one pretty soon. It's a college town, so I do see a lot of Hyundais and Kias.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I thought I saw my first '06 Sonata on the road in the Twin Cities yesterday. I saw a white sedan approaching on my right in the rearview mirror. I could see it only from just above the headlamps. I thought, "Oh, there's a new Sonata!" Then as it came closer I realized it was an A6. :blush:

    I did see lots of new Sonatas driving around Seoul last April, and they looked very sharp. Mostly silver cars--very popular in Korea.
  • truethattruethat Member Posts: 123
    Hahaha~
    You mistook Audi A6 for a Sonata, huh?
    Methinks some here are afraid of admitting Sonata is one darn good looking car,
    Not I! :shades:
    It looks great! I've heard stories about mistaking Sonata as a Lexus or some other
    luxury brand (especially the black ones).
    All the talk about derivative styling are just that. Talk.
    If it looks good, it looks good.
    I don't wanna hear any more "although"s or "but"s.
    I know some of you simply disagree, you don't have to say anything. :P
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    JD Powers goes by initial quality and not long term relability. I once had an Audi LS100 and the service advisor and mechanics knew me on a first name basis. Hopefully you new Hyundai and soon to be Hyundai owners will not know your service advisors and mechanics on a first name basis in the future. Sonata may be the Honda/Toyota car of this decade.

    For now I'll stick with my economic/performance 6-speed car.

    Cruis'n :shades:

    MidCow
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    Sonata may be the Honda/Toyota car of this decade.

    Highly doubt that.
    It's equal in Quality and reliability though.
    But when it comes to status, nop.
  • truethattruethat Member Posts: 123
    status can change you know.
    (Alright, alright, I'm not gonna start this again :shades: )
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    Yes Status can change.
    what about other brands like Nissan? It's selling very well and is still not considered a 'toyota/honda level' brand. But yes there is a chance Hyundai will become a "toyota/honda' brand, but i doubt it will happen in this decade.

    Ok i'll stop :P
  • janeencjaneenc Member Posts: 29
    Status is all in your head,... status comes with popularity. But it only takes a couple of people to go against the grain to set a new image in what is considered popular.Its confident people who try new things to set a different look or standard, then other people start to follow the trend. Just like a great designer handbag... I wear my new lx Sonata well!!! I don't care that others don't know it's the popular thing to do...yet... I get to start a trend!!! ;)
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,601
    I don't give a (blank) about status. Why spend a lot more $ to try to impress someone else who probably also doesn't give a (blank) about what you drive. But you may be on to something. I never, ever, thought of Honda or Toyota being status symbols...just good reliable cars at a reasonable price.
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    Well you may not think Toyota and Honda of status symbols but i know a lot of people do. Even car manufacturers see them as 'status symbols' I notice they tend to say things like "roomier then Accord and Camry" etc.

    I didn't buy my Accord because of its "status symbol' I have better reasons.
    Ex: High resale value - 06 Sonata's is still unknown
    *I need a car with a high resale value because i tend to sell them after 3 years.
  • truethattruethat Member Posts: 123
    Let me just say that I don't necessarily disagree with (like always :shades: ).
    Here are some of my thoughts. Relax and read at your leisure.

    I don't know if Camry (or Accord) represent any substantial social status.
    Most people who drive these family sedans tend to focus on economy, value,
    roominess and safety more than anything superficial. They tend to be more real :P
    They probably have the most in common with people who buy minivans.

    Plus, Americans love their bargains. Price seems to be No.1 factor almost always.
    As long as we can get good deals, most of us are willing to try almost anything
    even if it is unproven in quality. (Remember Yugo? Hyundai Excel still holds the
    sales record for freshman imports :P) Look at employee discount sales results.
    We love our good deals!

    That's why Hyundai has so much potential in this segment. (Especially compared
    to more upscale segments that Hyundai seems to have its eyes on.) Of course,
    as segments get lower and lower Hyundai probably has more and more
    competitiveness, but this segment attracts enough people who really doesn't care
    that much about status as long as a company can provide good value.

    I believe we'll clearly see whether this car will get accepted or not long before the
    resale value results start to show up on websites and blogs (1-2 years). Even if
    Sonata does not reach Camry level in resale value or long-term quality, if Hyundai
    can hold its own (as I believe it surely will, given recent progresses), It will become
    a real competitor because of its price and warranty advantages.

    I would not be surprised if Sonata ends up defining the segment by the end of this
    decade. (That's quite different from saying Sonata will be number one in this
    segment, too. Sonata sales overtaking any of Altima/Accord/Camry will still be the
    biggest story in this segment.) We'll see how the Sonata sales go since the production finally is in full swing.
  • truethattruethat Member Posts: 123
    about what we are talking about. (although it kinda contradicts my post)
    I think it just came out.
    http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05218/549615.stm

    "Buyers do not consider Hyundais desirable and prestigious, images that Hyundai officials say is the key to success from here on out.
    "We've got to make it a car that you want to buy, not one that you have to take,""
    -> the cold truth from the mouth of a Hyundai official

    This is why I like the company. They seem to be very frank about their problems
    and want to work hard and listen to customers. :shades:
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Size ways perhaps. Reliability is a definite NO. The Nissan Altima is closer to the lesser Hyundai and Kia in reliability than the reliable Camry and not-quite-so reliable Accord. :cry:
  • truethattruethat Member Posts: 123
    Says who? As ctalk keeps saying, the new Sonata's reliability is definitely
    unknown. Heck, we don't even know the long-term reliability of '04 sonatas.

    BUT, we can make an educated guess based on certain statistics (if nothing
    else, for the sake of this arguement).
    It is statistically true that long term dependability correlates to initial quality.
    The following article is a good reading about Hyundai's improving quality.
    Hyundai Sonata is Tops in Consumer Reports Reliability Survey

    For the last few months, JD Power has gone out of their way to point out the
    improvements Hyundai has been making. No one will be surprised if '04 Sonata
    does well in dependability survey next year because '04 Sonata did so well in IQS.
    It will be more surprising if VDS suddenly drops or stays at the level before the
    IQS improvements. In many people's minds, the question is how much, not if.

    Remember, '04 Sonata came out #1 in IQS. '05 Sonata came out #2. It is highly
    likely that Sonta will do just as well as (or even better than) Camcord in next
    year's VDS and the one after that.

    There are objective indications that Hyundai will do well, I have not seen any
    objective indication to the contrary. Some people here tend to use whatever
    their previous experiences (or even worse, things they heard) to assume that
    Hyundai will do worse than Toyota or Honda. And I believe that's a mistake.

    For now, though, I will wait and see.
  • nornenorne Member Posts: 136
    Honda and Toyo as a status symbol? Yeah right. I'm sure you know quite a few people who thinks toy/honda are status symbols. ;)
  • deluxedeluxe Member Posts: 29
    There is plenty of 06 sonatas here in Grand Rapids, Mi. I was in Honda dealership last Sunday and across from the street is Hyundai dealer, they had 6 (or maybe 7) new Sonatas all lines up in fron of the showroom- there were some people looking at them, i asked the salesman did they sell any yet, and he said, that he sold 2 that day already..

    Nice car, not as refined as japanese/german rivals, but for that price/warranty you get a good car,imo.
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    Good article.
    "Buyers do not consider Hyundais desirable and prestigious, images"

    Exactly. But this will change, maybe in 5 or 10 years, we'll have to wait and see.

    Brand Residual Value: Hyundai definitely has to work on this. Its near the bottom Its below the industry average I believe.

    I remember reading somewhere Honda is at the top, then Toyota....
    1. Honda
    2. Toyota
    3. Nissan
  • deluxedeluxe Member Posts: 29
    Just came back from Germany, not one Lexus on highway(autobahn)...Yes, Lexus gets great reviews from german press also, but they still have way to go if they think about selling a lot of vehicles in Germany, they sold 2300 vehicles total in last year in Germany(according to german press).

    Just for comparison Mercedes sells about 10000 S-class vehicles per year on average.Last i checked Lexus held a 6% of the "luxury" market, which is I guess a good start, but the numbers for last 3 years did not increase significatly.They might be better vehicles, but Germans will not embrace them as much we embrace japanese over domestic vehicles.
  • truethattruethat Member Posts: 123
    At this point, I don't think Americans are as attached to their vehicles as Germans
    are to their counterparts.
    But, your post clearly is true. I've heard many say Lexus doesn't have a soul that
    German cars do (or something to that effect).
    I wonder what Germans think of Hyundai luxury brand :P :P
  • choe13choe13 Member Posts: 348
    When i went to germany i saw barely any japanese automobiles there. Why get a tsx when you can get a rear wheel driving 3 series for about the same price? Not much point and same goes for lexus cars when you can get a 5 series. Germans care about quality, and craftmanship rather than long term reliability.

    I think personally the 06 Sonata will do better than say a accord or camry in germany, because of its price and it has some flair about it

    Lastly i just want to touch up this status symbol talk. Bmw, Honda, Toyota do steal some sales just solely because of their names, and the few thousands you see roaming everyday in the streets. Some people rather not be an outsider. But if the car is good, hyundai or suzuki or mitsubishi, status cannot save another car company alone. Look at for exmaple the G35 and 300. These cars are great cars now and have been alive only a short period of time. Though honda and toyota camcords will keep selling well, the amount of sales that will produce from the 06 sonata will take a life of its own like the G35 and 300(its already happening).

    Whereever the 06 is at thus far, hyundai has a created a success mid size car only the way they could, and should be praised for their work well done in my opinion
  • truethattruethat Member Posts: 123
    Sonata was specifically designed for US market in mind. The growth in size
    demonstrates this very well. It will be somewhat of an akward vehicle in
    Europe (although it has more potential in emerging Eastern Europe).

    I don't think Sonata will outsell Japanese rivals in Germany any time soon.
    You won't recognize many of the Japanese vehicles in Europe because they
    don't sell the cars that are marketed here.

    Kia, IMO, has more potential in Europe, including Germany. Their design has
    more European flair in general and sales have been skyrocketing. (something
    like 30+ percent growth over the last year) It goes head to head with its sister
    Hyundai. They are building a plant in Slovakia as we speak (seems to indicate
    the diverting strategies for the group.) Watch out for Kia's new Optima. It will
    probably be more "European" than Sonata.

    Interestingly, Toyota does not sell Camry in Europe. European version of Camry
    is Avensis and it looks very different despite the shared platform. You will see as
    many Avensis as any other imported car in Germany. My point is European taste
    in cars is very different from ours. Japanese luxury brands, IMO, look really
    awkward in European roads for the same reason. They were meant for the
    American market specifically. (Acura doesn't exist in Europe. For Infiniti, US
    market is the only one in the world, although I hear they are introducing it to South
    Korea of all places.) Direct comparison of current Japanese luxury models just
    isn't fair in European market.

    Alright, I've taken a sideroad, let me get back to my point.
    Sonata really needs a success in American market. It was designed for the
    market, after all. They can't count on sales in Europe to make up for any short-
    comings here. Moreover, the cars are being built here! The 1.1 billion investment
    almost solely depends on Sonata and Santa Fe's successes.
  • choe13choe13 Member Posts: 348
    I'll correct myself, tsx doesn't exist in europe, its the honda accord there rebadged

    and infinity and lexus are nissan and toyota with other names for their cars. I guess their luxury division does not have the same impact as it does here in NA

    But my point is that , you wont' find many japanese cars in germany period

    06 sonata may not do well in europe just because of its lack of handling abilities the europeans like, but it is tastefully exteriorly design, that will get some looks

    In my opinion the european market is extremely hard to sell cars than anywhere because of the massive variety of brands available there(more than the NA). Plus europeans like bmw's mercedez opel even ford has somehow managed to make a name for itself there

    Lastly to rebuttal what Truethat said about japanese cars looking really awkward in europe, i don't think thats the case, its more that those cars are excellent straight driving cars and are a little on the mediocre side when the roads get twisty. As well, euros love design, and the japnese cars are made more to do with functionality than flair

    This is how i think most people see cars made by countries
    European(bmw, saab, opel) - gorgeously designed, great handles, quality craftmanship(excellent materials like leather)
    Asian(toyota, honda, hyundai)- building towards long term reliability, efficiently made
    NA(gmc, ford) - Big space, Big horsepower, truck specialty
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    There is actually no TSX in Europe. The TSX here is the Honda Accord in Europe. The Euro Honda Accord is actually doing very well, ever since it introduced the diesel version. Sonata will not sell well there because it caters more to the U.S. market. "its vanilla flavored"

    The Accord is doing reasonably well because it has a more European flair. The styling is more aggresive, handling more sporty and size is smaller. Also, Europeans care a lot about prestige. Frankly, Hyundai has no prestige.

    Hyundai created an excellent car for the U.S. market. If Hyundai wants to sell well in the European market, it needs to create another Sonata like what Honda did with its Accord. A good example of what Honda is doing to make its cars more appealing is the new redesigned Euro Civic. It may look very odd to us, but to Europeans it is appealing.
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    The next Kia Optima is supposed to be a smaller, sportier and more fun to drive alternative to the new Sonata.

    I'm willing to bet next Optima will work better in the European market too.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,601
    status symbol
    n.
    Something, such as a possession or an activity, by which one's social or economic prestige is measured.

    Don't confuse prsent popularity with "status."

    If one is looking for status, he should look at a luxury car, not a Honda, Toyota or Hyundai (nor a Ford, Chevy or Dodge). I remember when Acura was first introduced in the USA...was at a PGA Tournament. While vistiing the vendors' tent, we checked out the new brand Acura. The guy told us Honda's research indicated that American wouldn't pay (whatever it was) for a car called Honda, which was already being sold as a Honda in Japan, so they developed a new brand name, Acura.

    Honda's own research told them Honda was not a car people would pay more for to achieve "status." Honda made good cars then, they make good cars now. But status, forget it.
  • truethattruethat Member Posts: 123
    I agree with you... mostly.
    I think there IS something that still separates Hyundai from the rest, though.
    Maybe, "status" is not the right word for it, but it's that look on your neighbors'
    face when they realized you just bought a Hyundai.
    (It is, I think, mostly misconception, but it's still there and Hyundai is having a
    hard time overcoming it... at least so far.) :P
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,601
    Everyone wants good resale value. The amount of dollars don't tell the whole story. To keep it simple, say a car is purchased for $20,000 and has a trade in value of $12,000 in three years. Another car is purchased for $30,000 and has a trade in value of $19,000 in three years. While the second car is worth $7K more after three years, it cost $10,000 more to buy. While the first car depreciated 40%, the second car depreciated 37%. From an economic stand point, what could have been done with that $10,000 purchase price difference? But, then you get into the whole question of time value of money which is to complex for a simple example. Just don't get suck into the decades old GM sales pitch about resale value. That may have had validity when new cars were $5 or 6 thousand with only a couple hundred $ between one car and another. But with potentially thousands of $ difference today, resale value is less important--just another piece of the puzzle.

    Buy what you want, get value for your money, don't pay an extra $150 a month to try to impress someone (who doesn't realy care anyway) and don't let resale value influence you decision unless two cars are comparably priced.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,601
    My neighbor and golf friends couldn't believe how little I paid for my '05 Sonata with all the features and build quality. A couple are going to give Hyundai a serious look when they are next in the market. They may decide to buy another make, but they are going to consider Hyundai, something I wouldn't have done a few year ago. :D
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    Luxury cars tend to be seen as status symbols. For an example, if someone drives a BMW they're seen to be well off.

    The difference between Hyundai and Honda/Toyota is that
    Hyundai is seen as a bargain basement deal for a good quality car.
    But Honda/Toyota is just simply seen as a good quality car but it will not be accorded as status.

    Hyundai needs to change peoples perceptions of their vehicles, like what Honda and Toyota have done. You may think its equal to Honda and Toyota, but the majority of the population still see Hyundai as a low cost alternative.
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    Well I dont mind paying extra for a car i truly want.

    Buy what you want, get value for your money, don't pay an extra $150 a month to try to impress someone (who doesn't realy care anyway) and don't let resale value influence you decision unless two cars are comparably priced.
    Well in my opinion I do care about what car I own. Whenever I drive to work, I like to feel good about the car I drive. It makes me feel good to tell people that I own a Honda. But for Hyundai, it still hasn't achieved the same status as Honda. You may not care about 'status' but I do, and i dont mind paying extra for a car I feel proud of.

    There are also more reasons why I bought the Accord. For one i really love the interior, and I find it luxurious (better quality than the 05 Sonata and possibly the 06)

    As for resale value, Honda is far ahead of Hyundai. You used 40% and 37%. Those numbers are not realistic if you are talking about the difference between Honda and Hyundai.
  • deluxedeluxe Member Posts: 29
    I so agree with you. I will take a while until Hyndai does change our oppinion that it belongs side by side with Toyota and Honda. I dont like Hyndai's emblem for whatever reason..dont ask me why, nothing against brand, im just another unhappy VW owner..Maybe the chinese invasion will help? Check this out: Germans comparo between Chinese brand and Mercedes..

    Zhonghua 2.4 AT MB E 200 Elegance
    Motor Reihen-Vierzylinder Reihen-Vierzylinder
    Hubraum (cm³) 2351 1796
    Leistung (kW/PS) 100/136 120/163 HP
    bei U/min 5500 5500
    max. Drehmoment 200 240 Torque
    bei U/min 2750 3000-4000
    Antrieb/Getriebe Front/Viergang-Autom. Heck/Sechsgang Tranny
    Höchstgeschwindigkeit (km/h) 210 230 Max.Speed
    Länge/Breite/Höhe (mm) 4880/1800/1430 4818/1822/1450 Dimensions
    Radstand (mm) 2789 2854
    Kofferraum/Zuladung (l/kg) 550/425 540/535 Max Weight
    Leergewicht (kg) 1410 1570
    Beschleunigung 0-100 km (s) 14,0 9,6 0-62mp/h
    EU-Normverbrauch (l/100 km) 7,6 Super 8,2 Super

    Side note:Chinese car is 20 000 euro cheaper....
    For those with some german knowledge here is whole comparo.
    http://www.autobild.de/test/neuwagen/artikel.php?artikel_id=9335&artikel_seite=2
  • choe13choe13 Member Posts: 348
    Hyundai might not have the status and prestiege, but i think if you blinded folded some people who drives variety of cars or took out the Hyundai Symbol out and told them this is a high end car like a audi a4 more than the average may not deny it.

    Some may think that sounds ridiculous, but this car has done a great job to try to want to be a luxurious car. It is extremely quiet(don't know if the engine is on) which is probably the biggest attribute of a luxury car, it looks classy(every line and angle attend to), has most of the safety equipments standard and it is neatly crafted interiorly. Of course the materials may prove in the end this not a pure luxurious car, but the poitn i'm trying to make is to me this car has more fooling power that its luxurious more than any mid size car of its price right now(this is how good this car is in my opinion)

    I know i will get alot of rebuttals and i'm just encouraging another endless and pointless battles, but let me just say and most will agree NVH level and exterior design is probably top three in key attributes to what a luxury car is about. The accord has a great interior(luxurious) but with very average looks and not nearly as quiet as the sonata(engine noise can be heard). Camry has none of the three attributes in my opinion. Mazda 6? Altima? are more sports cars want to be
  • truethattruethat Member Posts: 123
    Maybe not Lexus or Audi, but many people will believe this is a Toyota or Honda
    in a blind-fold test. Sonata looks good and drives fine.
  • truethattruethat Member Posts: 123
    image
    It's mos. def. kia!
  • choe13choe13 Member Posts: 348
    Truethat are you sure? i think you got perhaps a old spy pic. This is the Pontiac G6 spy picture. Look at the side

    Naw and you can't mistaken a sonata for a camry nor accord. It is much quieter. You don't know the engine is on, you DEF know the engine is on a accord and camry. That is definitely a luxury aspect
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    engine in my Accord is very quiet at idle. I haven't driven a 2006 Sonata yet but I saw one at the auto show and was not impressed. I don't like the interior at all. However, I did receive an offer from Hyundai to test drive one and receive a $25 gift card. I will take them up on their offer and report my opinions later.
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    ...but isn't the Camry known for being quite, having a great ride (but not so great handling) and having high-quality (though bland) interior designs?

    I don't really see the Sonata having more "fooling power than any other car in this class either, not for its styling, not for its interior design, nor for its exterior design.

    Now styling is subjective, so here is my opinion...
    The car looks nice, but its not any more stylish than say an Accord or Camry, and we already know about the endless battles of how many folks are saying the Sonata ripped off the Accord's rear end (I'm not going there)

    At best, I think the car has some nice touches (chrome tips, fog lights, 17 inch alloy wheels on GLSV6{option} and LXV6) but other than that, the new Sonata (IMO) is no more stylish than the Accord or Camry and is a bit too bland IMO. It looks about as good as the last generation of Accords and Camrys because this generation of those two are probably the WORST styled ever.

    But if bland styling is what the luxury car market is about (Lexus for example) than all three (CamCorNata) are about equal for "fooling power:"

    The next Optima is supposed to go after the sportier cars in this class (Accord is considered a good handler in this class), Altima and of course the sports car of this group, the Mazda6.

    I think Hyundai themselves wanted to give the Sonata more sedate styling to cater more to the Camcord brands, while allowing the Optima to go after the G6/Altima/Mazda6 crowds.

    I'm not saying that the Sonata is a bad car (because it REALLY is not), its a great car, that matches the CamCords in most every way or either BEATS them. But the interior design of the car is at best bland, it seems to have very little style (like the Camry), the exterior design with nice touches of chrome in some places, rims where others use hubcaps and off course the fog lights on GLS/LX models, still isn't a true looker in this class, it looks derivative (like the Camcord) and its interior is about as bland as the Camry.

    So I'll have to disagree (respectfully), because the Sonata, while a great mid-size car really does nothing luxurious IMO.

    While it does have the safety features down, it lacks dual-zone climate control, navigation systems, power passenger seats and a few other goodies that the top of the line Camry XLEV6 and especially Accord EXV6 have.

    A luxury car usually should have a quite ride, but it usually has an array of features that sets it apart. Safety its got (right now), but it lacks some of the luxury touches of the competition, but in its favor, the Sonata has a lower price though.

    Also, from what's been going on in the car industry as of late, EVERYONE is trying to move away from bland styling. Toyota is giving the Camry more spunk for 2007, the 07 Accord is less bland than before, the next Altima is supposedly much more sporty than the current one, and even Lexus, the luxury car kings, are giving the IS350, GS series and even the next ES more sporty styling to cater to the new demand for less bland cars.
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    The Sonata doesn't turn heads, and its interior is at best bland.

    For the Sonata to be considered a luxury sedan, it should not just have a quiet ride, but it should have other features that set it apart from its competition. For example Accord has Dual-zone climate control, power passenger seat etc. Also, a luxury sedan should have the best looking interior in its class and right now IMO Accord still has the best interior.

    Sonata right now, does come with some features that Honda has right now. From what i've seen in the past, both Toyota and Honda take their sedans one set ahead of the competition by adding new features that set it apart its competition. I know Sonata is going to get a refresh, but from what i seen, Honda really takes a huge step ahead of the competition on its redesigns and i'm not sure Hyundai can change its 06 to go head-to-head with the NG Accord.

    Also, the way Hyundai is marketing its Sonata permits its competition to innovate.

    The 06 Sonata is a great vehicle, but i'm not sure how it will hold against the NG models Toyota and Honda are putting out.
  • tenpin288tenpin288 Member Posts: 804
    For the Sonata to be considered a luxury sedan

    Just out of curiosity, when did this become a discussion about luxury sedans? The Sonata, Accord, Camry, and other vehicles in this class are mid-size family sedans, not luxury sedans. Lots of fancy features (nav, gps, all power seats, etc) don't make a luxury sedan.

    If you want a luxury sedan from Honda or Toyota, you buy from their Acura or Lexus division. If you want a luxury car from a a domestic, you buy from their luxury divisions. If you want a luxury Sonata, you should wait for the upcoming Azera, or if you really can wait, from their possible luxury division in a few years down the road.

    Let's keep focused on comparing apples to apples, oranges to oranges. ;)
  • choe13choe13 Member Posts: 348
    in your opinion do you think the audi a4 or a6 even the last generation ones look good?

    looking good or not is subjective, but objectively unlike the camcord since every line and angle has been attendted to(nothing looks out of place like most mid size cars) i think it looks good

    "For the Sonata to be considered a luxury sedan, it should not just have a quiet ride, but it should have other features that set it apart from its competition"

    I don't believe people who look for a luxury car have power seating above nvh level.
    adding an equipment any car company can do, but making it darn quiet and vibrationless can take many years to perfect.

    Like i said this argument can get heated but if you say blindfold a couple of testers or take the emblem off say both the accord and sonata people will think the sonata has better luxury features like nvh

    but if the same test can be conducted about which car is more sportier, i have no point than arguing that the accord wins with its engine and handling
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    Umm hello? I wasn't the one who brought this topic up..... I was disagreeing with Choe13. And it seems you do to.

    Lots of fancy features (nav, gps, all power seats, etc) don't make a luxury sedan.
    Ok, so what your saying is Lexus, Mercedes etc. dont need to put luxury features in their cars.
  • tenpin288tenpin288 Member Posts: 804
    I didn't direct this to anyone in particular. It just seemed to me that the discussion had begun to stray from the comparing of mid-size family sedans to comparing of family sedans and complaining that they don't include enough luxury features. That type of discussion/comparison is unfair to all cars and buyers. To include all the features that have been opined for would price all these vehicles out of their target market and then we would be complaining that there weren't any affordable family cars anymore. It's all a balancing act to give the majority of the buying public a good vehicle at a price they can afford. :)
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    Actually the only luxury feature i said thats not standard on the Accord is Navigation system :)

    It's all a balancing act to give the majority of the buying public a good vehicle at a price they can afford.
    Agree with you on that. The reason why i was argueing is because Choe13 kept saying Sonata is comparable to Lexus and Audi. Which i disagree with.
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    Lots of features don't make a luxury sedan?

    If that wasn't the case, WHY would folks buy Acura TLs over Accords and Camrys over ES330s? Prestige, features, more power, and luxury amendities.

    If a luxury sedan didn't have more features than a mainstreamer, it wouldn't be a luxury sedan. :P

    Tell that to VW, with its new 3.6 Passat model. It has features that make it compete with cars like the Acura TL, Lexus ES330, Infiniti G35 etc.

    And as Ctalk stated, we are responding (and respectfully disagreeing) with Choe about the Sonata being more of a near luxury car than the Accord or Camry.
  • choe13choe13 Member Posts: 348
    i think sometimes people on this thread do no want to read what is said and want to reword it their way. What i said was this exactly

    "I don't believe people who look for a luxury car have power seating above nvh level.
    adding an equipment any car company can do, but making it darn quiet and vibrationless can take many years to perfect."

    I never said equipment was not important. And i never said the sonata was near audi or lexus, please don't reword things yourself. It is nearly impossible to have a objective argument in this thread.

    My last word is the sonata is quieter than either camry nor accord, and alot of buyers will notice this
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