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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

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Comments

  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    I think it all comes down to illuminating vs. non-illuminating gauge. The new illuminating gauge gives a clearly readout and is easier to read even under bright sunlight (nevertheless during the night). I agree with thegraduate that the illuminating gauge has a more "modern" look than the old style gauge. Especially when the engine is turned off the whole gauge is black and once the engine is turned on the whole gauge will light up which really gives me a sense of excitement.

    So far I think Accord is the only one that offers the illuminating gauge in this class (maybe the new Camry? Can anyone confirm on this?). To me that just shows the Accord is really a step ahead (if not miles ahead) of its competitors given that it's a relatively old design.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    The 2002-2006 Altima had orange illumination (a little hard to read), and the 2005-current Camries have very easy to read illuminated gauges as well. I'm not sure about the others in the segment.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    The Mazda6 had illuminated gauges (red) as an option in '03-'05. Not sure if the current models have them... They're optional on the Mazda3 as well.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Here are the gauge pictures for the popular midsize sedans:

    06 Honda Accord
    image

    06 Nissan Altima
    image

    07 Toyota Camry
    image

    06 Mazda 6
    image

    06 Chevy Malibu
    image

    06 Chevy Impala
    image

    06 Pontiac G6
    image

    07 Ford Fusion
    image

    Source: MSN auto

    I personally preferred Accord and Camry's crisp, bright-">looking gauge.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Member Posts: 1,565
    The whole point of having the V6 Accord is you don't have to run the engine to redline, to get good acceleration. And the extra power is there, when you do need it. The Accord V6 will get better mpg, in either case, than the Fusion V6. "Choice" is good, but "VTEC" is better.

    Since Fusion's V-6 has a peak torque rating of 205 at 4800 RPM and Accord's is 211 at 5000 rpm, I wouldn't expect much difference in their abilities under normal driving conditions. Just watch your tach sometime under your normal driving. Likely you will notice you very rarely even break into above 5,000 RPM.

    Of course there is more to it than that. One has to take into account the torque available at all engine speeds and also the interaction of the transmission as well.

    Not really much difference in Edmunds recent comparison, anyways:

    0-30, Fusion 2.9 sec, Accord 3.3
    0-45, Fusion 5.0 sec, Accord 5.1
    0-60, Fusion 7.7 sec, Accord 7.6
    1/4 mile: Fusion 15.7 sec at 90 MPH, Accord 15.6 at 91.4 MPH.

    I would say those figures are nearly a wash, with Fusion having more power available in the low speed end, and a slight advantage to Accord in the high end. Also, assuming Edmunds tests were for the same driving cycle, they observed Fusion mileage at 22.6 and Accord at 21.4.

    So where is the big engine performance advantage Accord has over Fusion with the same displacement engine?

    Right now, Camry has the biggest power/torque advantage, but this is with a newer and higher displacement engine than either Accord or Fusion.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    I think all, except the fusion, are ridiculous, in that they go up to at least 140 mph and the most ridiculous are the Accord and Altima with 160 mph on the gauge. What is the point of this sort of foolishness?

    Fusion goes to 120 mph...there is a better picture on edmunds.
  • tamu2002tamu2002 Member Posts: 758
    "Likely you will notice you very rarely even break into above 5,000 RPM. "

    I definitely second that. Personally I try to keep my RPM below 3K for better gas mileage and to protect the engine. Now raise your hand, which of you drives like a maniac? ;)
  • chrisfordchrisford Member Posts: 55
    MY Contour Se has a whopping 125hp! I don't think the acceleration is that bad. I have made three trips from New York City to Toronto this year and I never feel like I need more power. And this is with 3 adults and 3 kids. All this talk about 0-60 is just plain overkill.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    Can't say I have seen many Accord owners AVERAGING the 27.4MPG I am getting in my Fusion 3.0.. :shades:
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    "I personally preferred Accord and Camry's crisp, bright-">looking gauge."

    What? they run together making them harder to read!?? Not like those that have thier own complete area. In my book the Camry/Accord are hard to read..
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    Thanks Badgerfan! This was a good example of what people really need to see. I never said Honda didn't make good engines. But Ford does too! The 3.0 Duratec with VVT is a great engine. Ford has pushed as much as 250 out of this engine for the Jag at one time. The 3.0 is smooth and ready to rev. I agree it can be "noisy", but its not a "clunky" noisy like some say. Ford could easily take care of this extra noise with some more sound proofing and tuning of the exhaust.

    If Ford were smart they would keep a 3 engine line-up for the Fusion/Milan. Offer the new 3.5 in a Fusion GT or special edition type vehcile. Add some styling differences so folks could see the car has the 3.5 instead of the 3.0.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    And Honda/Toyota loose another sale.. A co-worker who is completly open to any vehicle has bought himself a Hyundia Sonata with a 4cyl engine. His remarks were:

    1. Honda/Toyota too expensive - This is coming from a guy who has no ties, no bias towards any car maker. Thought they were very nice vehicles. Price just too high.

    2. - Ford Fusion - didn't like the styling, too much for his taste. Liked the way the car drove and the interior.

    3. Sonata won his choice because of the long warranty and he felt it was the best over all value. Liked the interior size for his family. He wanted just a 4cyl with automatic. Just a family hauler.

    I feel this guy is the type of consumer that is open minded. Shops smart and does his research.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Since I know a neighbor whom yesterday bought a Camry over Sonata so I guess now we are back at square one right?

    Can we stop this nonsense please?
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    It isn't nonsense. This discussion is all about the relative merits of the mid-sized sedans. It might be useful to some prospective buyers out there if you could elaborate on WHY your neighbor bought the Camry over the Sonata.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    The Mazda6 had illuminated gauges (red) as an option in '03-'05. Not sure if the current models have them... They're optional on the Mazda3 as well.

    IIRC Mazda's term is "electroluminescent". Pretty fancy huh? ;)

    The 6 does still have them as an option. My former 6 had the standard gauges which were white in the day and red at night. The fancy version is red all the time.

    The 3 has standard fancy gauges which are red with a blue surround. They are pretty darn cool IMO.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Personally, I like the Camry gauges the best because of the red pointers that stand out a little better from the white than do the Accord's. My gauges, seen here, are very clear, but I feel like red pointers would better differentiate the view and make a quick read just a little easier.

    2006 Gauges:image

    Compared to my 1996 gauges, they are much easier to see, however:image

    Here's an example of the red pointers on the Accord...easier to see IMO:image
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    The 3 has standard fancy gauges which are red with a blue surround. They are pretty darn cool IMO.

    I don't think they're standard, at least on the 3i. My brother-in-law was given a base 3i as a loaner, and the gauges were the same as the base 6, white-on-black with red lumination.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    They are standard on the 3s I beleive, but not the 3i.

    These are the 3s gauges.image. Nice, but not any better than those already mentioned, IMO.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    I definitely second that. Personally I try to keep my RPM below 3K for better gas mileage and to protect the engine. Now raise your hand, which of you drives like a maniac?

    I guess that would be me, and I am really tired of being stuck behind you pokey folks who are afraid to actually use your engine. I tried driving like that for one tank, staying below 3000 rpm, and did not notice a significant difference in mpg...at most maybe 1 mpg. I'm going to continue to waste that $80 or so per 10,000 miles, rather than take a mile to accelerate up to the speed limit :P .

    I often wonder if these people who are afraid to accelerate are the same ones who pass me as I am coasting to a red light...hurry up and stop :confuse: .
  • comp386comp386 Member Posts: 56
    IMO the 3's gauges are absolutely gorgeous. The accord and camry are pretty fugly. They seem practicle though. I think the Impala takes the cake for worst looking gauge.
  • mfletou1mfletou1 Member Posts: 508
    The Camry Hybrid gauge is a little different. Once you start going and the vehicle starts reading your fuel economy, a blue glow comes on in the background. Its awesome. I thought the Camry gauges looked quite a bit fresher than the Accord's, going from them back to back in test drives.

    Few other differences, and there is a display screen in the middle that shows you what is happening with the hybrid system (whether you're be powered by the ICE or battery), battery levels, average mpg for tank, mpg for trip, average speed, and trip mileage.
  • tamu2002tamu2002 Member Posts: 758
    I don't like slow drivers either that block the left lane. I'm breaking in my new Accord so I've been taking it easy, and I stay out of the left lane so you can pass me :)

    Once my Accord is broken in I'll let it do a little sprinting once in a while. But I kinda like the game of trying to squeeze every possible mile out of each tank.

    BTW, how much beating does an engine (particularly the Accord) take when revved to 4 or 5K RPM? I'm always worried about this on the back of my mind. :confuse:
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Don't worry, the Honda engines love to rev. I constantly drove my old 97' Honda Accord around 4-5K RPM and it had given me 6 big-trouble-free years (few small repairs here and there but no tranny and engine repairs done). I have handed it to my sister earlier this year and it continues to serve her well.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    BTW, how much beating does an engine (particularly the Accord) take when revved to 4 or 5K RPM? I'm always worried about this on the back of my mind.

    I have no idea, but isn't constantly running at low rpm bad for engines also? Not that there is much chance of that on anything I drive :) .
  • autoboy16autoboy16 Member Posts: 992
    It loves to rev between 3-5k!! I have mo choice sometimes. The thing is, it sounds soooo good getting there!! The original owner tool great care of this car! 12 years later its my turn and boy is it easy to do! Getting an average of 25.5 MPG city is great to me! Gassed up and it came out to exactly $30! Gas is now $2.53! :D:D:D

    -Cj :shades:
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    3. Sonata won his choice because of the long warranty and he felt it was the best over all value. Liked the interior size for his family. He wanted just a 4cyl with automatic. Just a family hauler.

    I feel this guy is the type of consumer that is open minded. Shops smart and does his research.

    I feel this guy shopped for value, over quality. Or, maybe he had a spending limit (less options), which is ok, if value is your #1 priority.
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    I hope that 2.53 is for premium gas ( didn't read back to see) because gas in South Carolina is as low as $1.93 a gallon here for regular and 2.13 for Premium.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,308
    4th place in F1 constructor's standings. doesn't sound like 'best engine' to me.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    4th place in F1 constructor's standings. doesn't sound like 'best engine' to me.

    F1 is more about chassis setup (road courses). IRL is more about the engine (high speed ovals).
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,601
    Check the definition of "value." Value does include "quality."

    But both of these words are relative. As an extreme example, I think most would agree that the quality of a Rolls Royce is better than the quality of an Acord. Most would also agree that an Acord is a better value.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,308
    isn't that a honda only engine series? they get at least 10k fans per race. too bad they won't adapt that v8 tech into something a mid size sedan owner could drive. (?RL?) ;)
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    Check the definition of "value." Value does include "quality."

    You definitely have a point, and I stand corrected. However, my definition of "Value", and your definition, can be totally different.

    The guy who owns a Rolls Royce, is not going to trade it in on an Accord. And the guy who owns an Accord will probably not trade it in on a Sonata either. We all have different definitions.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,601
    I was talking about the dictionary definition, not a personal definition.

    People do move from Accord to Sonata and vice versa. It's just a reflection of value they are seeking at the time of purchase.

    Want best car, features and warranty for the money, buy a Sonata. Want best track record of reliability, buy a Camcord. But the track record of reliability is narrowing with each passing model year.

    If Hyundai's reliability holds, at some time the length of reliability will be come irrelevant. 10 years for Hyundai vs 30 for camcord Or 15 for Hyundai vs 35 camcord. At some point the number of years becomes moot as long as the "lower" reliability term has a long term record.

    I'm not saying Hyundai is there yet. However, based on Hyundai's quality of the last 6 or 7 years, in a few years we can easily be discussing Hyundai's 10 year record of building reliable cars.
  • tamu2002tamu2002 Member Posts: 758
    It's not the short term impact on the engine that I'm worried about (6 years). It's the 10 years and beyond. :confuse:
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Want best track record of reliability, buy a Camcord. But the track record of reliability is narrowing with each passing model year.

    There's a difference in quality as well (interior mainly). I think Hyundai has figured out (for the most part, best I can tell) the reliability part.

    However, I felt the interior of the Accord seemed more expensive than the sticker price, while the Sonata was simply "up to par" in my opinion. My main focus when car shopping was to find the best interior for the money, with economy, reliability, and size close behind. The Sonata was simply not as sharp looking inside as the Accord was.

    To put it simply, the Accord impressed/wowed me, where the Sonata made no real impression at all.

    image

    Not bad, but I feel like this looks much nicer:
    image

    Obviously, I didn't choose top models when looking for pics to post, since the most expensive Accord is MUCH more expensive than the most expensive Sonata.
  • kwonc71kwonc71 Member Posts: 245
    I bought LX last Nov. Put 13,000 miles so far. Has no major mechanical problem yet ,other than outside temperature sensor has to be replaced next Monday ( Mechanic told me it will takes 30 minutes). I have tiny rattle from center console on a cold day, same section of the HWY where I heard rattle in my friend's brand new Lexus too.

    Love smooth powerful engine and solid handling. Here are short movies that people show off their V6 Sonatas.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XL1QJqOpiyo

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPP6-KvMLlw

    ECS and Traction controls with no extra charges. You have to see ECS & Traction control test on snow @ www.youtube.com's Top Gear ICE test. Those are true life saving features. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fG3cOEW53ag

    In portland, OR, You can get V6 top LX for $18,500. The price that you can't even buy Accord LX with 4 cylinders ,or Camry LE.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    Besides, I find all these arguments about a few percentage points of torque or horsepower or EPA mileage differences of generally 1-3 MPG all a bit stupid. Almost all "normal" drivers who have driven any midsized car with a 200 HP or more engine would likely be hard pressed to require much more. Just try running your Honda Accord to redline every time you accelerate to get into the range of utilizing that 244 HP and see what kind of mileage you will actually obtain.

    In my experience you can drive a Honda hard and fast and only suffer minor gas mileage setbacks, in the neighborhood of 10 to 20%. In domestics, my experience tells me that flooring it everywhere you go will get you about a 50% decrease in mileage. I'd take the Honda anyday in a 300 mile straight line drag race! The Honda will make it, the Ford will run out of gas.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Member Posts: 1,565
    Well, you can state this opinion all you want. but there is no verifiable proof.

    I listed test comparisons Edmunds did under I would assume are controlled identical conditions, and their tests showed both V-6 Fusion and V-6 Accord to have nearly identical abilities in the 0-60 range and 1/4 mile, and with the Fusion showing better observed mileage. I would assume Edmunds has some sort of fairly controlled drive cycle for their tests, so I would tend to believe their data than just some idle speculation about whose car gets better mileage under extreme driving conditions.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    My old Accord is a 97' which is probably built in 96 so it's officially a 10-year-old car now.
  • tamu2002tamu2002 Member Posts: 758
    Do you have any issues with the car like oil burning, loud engine noise, rough idle, low gas mileage? Thanks.
  • bobadbobad Member Posts: 1,587
    I think all, except the fusion, are ridiculous, in that they go up to at least 140 mph and the most ridiculous are the Accord and Altima with 160 mph on the gauge. What is the point of this sort of foolishness?

    I assume all those cars will nearly peg their speedometers, so it's not foolishness.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    No problem with the oil. I do oil change every 3000 miles. Like I said, no problem with either the tranny and engine. Since my old Accord was a 4 cylinder the engine loves to rev so it is somewhat loud at 1st and 2nd gear (that's if you compare it to a Toyota). However, the engine is smoothly quite at cruising speed as well as at idle. By the end of my ownership (April this year) I averaged about 23 MPG with combined city and highway driving (about 50-50). Given that it's a 10-year-old car I don't think that's too shabby at all.

    Hope this helps.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    I assume all those cars will nearly peg their speedometers, so it's not foolishness.

    They are probably limited to 130 mph or something like that. I know my wife's Jetta has a 160 mph speedometer, but my understanding is the car is limited to 128 mph. In any case, I don't think anyone with any sense is going to be exceeding 120 mph in any of these cars.

    The new trend toward 160 mph speedometers is as dumb (or perhaps dumber) as when they were putting in 85 mph speedometers.
  • w9cww9cw Member Posts: 888
    I agree, but when one is spending his/her own individual money, you try to get the most bang for your buck. I think that why many choose the Sonata, although I agree the Accord's interior is very nice.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    The new trend toward 160 mph speedometers is as dumb

    Why is it dumb when the some of the cars come with 160-mph speedometers are limited at 140+ mph?
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Member Posts: 1,565
    160 MPH gauges are dumb because these are family sedans, most of which will be driven by sane people, and going those speeds, even if the vehicle is capable of it, on public roads is not sane.

    Maximum speedometer markings of 160MPH are indeed stupid and do nothing but compress the spacing of the gage so that there is less resolution in the gage.

    My guess is this was all marketing department driven. The manufacturer might get a naive customer or two who are actually impressed by a gage that goes that high, even though the car will spend 99% of its time at 75 MPH or less. Do they put that gage on the 4 cylinder versions as well? Even more stupid.
  • lweisslweiss Member Posts: 342
    About 10 years ago, I had a Dodge rental car (forgot the model, but it was a forgettable car) and was driving in the Mojave Desert in California one evening- very late, deserted and straight road- and I felt like seeing what the car could do- well the digital speedometer (popular in the '80's and early '90's) kept up until 85 Mph then just started flashing (wouldn't go above 85 I don't think). I was wondering if that is where the speedometer stopped or if the rental car had some sort of speed limiter on it to prevent such irresponsible behavior. I do know that many rental cars (especially in Europe) have a special glass seal around the speedometer/odometer cable hookup to the engine so that you can't just disconnect it and not run up the miles
  • autoboy16autoboy16 Member Posts: 992
    Sorry, miscalculation. Gas is $2.43 here in south miami, for regular, 87 octane! it fell $.50 over the week and $.10 overnight. Our gas is higher since they have to send it so far. Traveling 80mph, it takes 10hours to reach the florida line from where I live. Premium is $2.50, Diesel is $2.47.

    Heres looking forward to us seeing $1.90 gas!!!
    -Cj :D
  • cajuncyclercajuncycler Member Posts: 172
    Yeah, I'll take the bet. Word on the radio today that somewhere in the country the price of regular unleaded was selling for $1.86. Here the price is down to $2.30. I see your bet and raise you one hybrid...
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    Maximum speedometer markings of 160MPH are indeed stupid and do nothing but compress the spacing of the gage so that there is less resolution in the gage.

    Take a look at the pictures of the dashes on the last couple of pages. Which one is easier to read? The 160mph speedo on the Accord, or the Tiny 120mph speedo on the Fusion. You can easily read the Accord speedo from the back seat, so what's the big deal? Just because the speedo goes up to 160mph, that doesn't mean you have to go that fast. Can't you think of something more important to gripe about?
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