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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread
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Comments
I wouldn't worry about Honda revved engines. Honda developed engine technology on motorcycles. It is not unusual for Honda in line or V4 bike engines to red line at 10 grand or above and no damage. Their years of racing technology easily makes them the most technologically advanced engine maker on the planet. Bar none.
without the limiting accessories, it was supposedly good for 11k rpms.
Keyword is "I" in this statement. Ever thought for just a minute maybe, just maybe Honda/Toyota have lost touch with value? and maybe, just maybe consumers are starting to really ask if the extra $3-4,000 dollar premium for a like optioned Toyota/Honda are REALLY worth it? Hmm... just think out of the box..
Seriously, the great thing about capitalism is one doesn't have to explain why they bought a over b. Honda and Toyota prices are not coming down. Hyundais' prices have only one direction to go in.
Honda and Toyota sure have us buffaloed into thinking they have a better product at a higher price, silly them, in reality they have an overpriced lackluster product and the buying public is too stupid to notice.
What size numbers do you need? Are you half blind? Do you need 2" numbers?
Unfortunately my Odyssey speedo is not easy to read. The top of the speedo is blocked by the steering wheel. This is the only car I ever drove with a blocked speedo.
Isn't the steering wheel adjustable? Maybe you have the steering wheel too low for your height.
in 1989?
What year are we in now? And what accessories are "rpm limiting"?
Surely you don't mean the Speedo is hard to read otherwise?
I think they are as easy to read as the Accord's...
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Not really. People choose honda for their sportiness and value. There are 3 types of people in the world, The Factuals, The Haters, and the The Claimers. eg: Chevy claims that the impala has more interior room than the accord. The Impala is a FULL SIZE sedan and must have more room. The Factuals would analyze that like I did and figure it out. The haters would believe them and think of every bad honda related thing that has happened. The Claimers claim things but have no little or no facts.
Anyways, people are willing to pay more for honda for their great interior ergos and their world class engines. (Ford has good engines but put the wrong one in the fusion) The s2k is hondas only RWD vehicle and was once able to rev up to 9k rpms with out the engine breaking a sweat. Their engines have been proven to do what they are designed to do. Take the 07 MDX having a 300hp V6, or the s25s 2l I4. Both are $$$ but are both worth it (differently from other people of course) and people know this.
The s2k are for the people who love the joy of having a roadster (RWD, Small trunk, Cramped interiors, great engines) and the MDX NOW for those who want to be different and not have an X5, or Cayenne, be really sporty & luxurious, family hauler.
For those who want an engine example, Why does the Cheaper, bigger sonata have a bigger v6 than accord will less hp. (Has Hyundai done SAE testing?) Thats what me (at least I) mean about fine tuned engines.
I can go on on what makes honda honda but its pointless. The Haters are gonna hate and the claimers are gonna claim. Be factual and do the honda before you can make claims. Dont listen to what the people wrote about the honda. Try it yourself then make comment; weather good or bad. Need I go on?
(Honda sports4 concept; A preview of the next accord?)
SO HOW 'BOUT THEM PATRIOTS?? :shades:
-Cj
True, Honda makes a very good and efficient engine, but the disparity betweeen the two isn't so great.
The late model Accord started out with 240HP, not SAE certified, which Honda said it would have been SAE certified at around 230HP. The 2006 Accord got a bump and SAE certified at 244HP, which Honda claims to have raised the HP by over 10.
The 2006 Sonata started at 235HP, which fell 1 HP in the 2007 model to 234HP SAE certified. The new Santa Fe, which has the same engine, was SAE certifed at 242 HP, so clearly the engine has potential. Not only that, the Sonata already has more torque, which is just as important has HP, which makes it the overall power leader between the two.
Comparison testing shows that the Sonata is equally as fast as the Accord; while no doubt the Honda J30A4/J30A5 engines are great, the Sonata gives you a comparable engine.
But if we are going to dwell on the midsize non premium family sedans and V6s, we should be talking about the class leaders, which now are the 2GR-FE (2007 Camry), VQ35DE (2007 Altima, Duratec35 (Ford MKZ), Buick L32 (GM S/C 3800 Series III), GM "High Feature" V6, amongst others etc.
$40,000 name brand rig with 48,000 miles should be better than that.
Have not had such problems, even on a cheap Hyundai or Kia yet.
No matter what, I'm not buying Hondas anymore.
You can't tell somebody how to spend $20K+ of their own money. With autos there are very few facts. Yeah you can measure 0 to 60, skidpad, interior volume etc. But you can't measure someones individual opinion of the overall car. Having a better skidpad between car a and car b does not mean one car is better.
As much as some people don't want to admit it, the nameplate and branding carries a lot of weight in a lot of peoples mind. That only happens when manufacturers produce a great product that consumers really love.
Absolutely incorrect. I know people who have been stranded with both makes of the above mentioned cars due to component failures. Thankfully no one got hurt or into accidents.
I was the guy who posted back on Aug 6..."And if gas goes to $2 per gallon you will lose even more by overpaying for hybrid...so what? If you know what the price is going to be, you should making a killing in the oil futures market instead of wasting your time here". :surprise:
I don't buy on price alone. Quality, safety, value, and price - certainly. Price is really not the driving factor, as I never finance a car anyway - I always pay cash. Given the very slow turnover on new car acquisitions in this family, it's easy for us to save the money necessary to pay cash for a new car purchase. I can afford to buy a car much more expensive that the Sonata, for example, but why? Image has never been a factor in my car buying decisions.
I've test driven the Accord, Camry, and Sonata a number of times, plus rented a 2007 Camry for over a 1,500 mile trip. The Accord had too much road and wind noise, the Camry I test drove and rented exhibited some of the reported problems discussed here on Edmunds.com, and the Sonata had significantly less road noise and wind noise than the Accord, and none of the glitches seen in the new Camry. All three exhibited their +/- features, but overall the Sonata was my 1st choice with the Accord a close 2nd, even with the aforementioned glitches. I simply don't like the exterior design of the new Camry.
I really like the Accord, but when I can buy a 2007 Sonata Limited with the 3.3L V6 and all of its standard equipment (5-speed automatic, leather, etc.) for $18,465 (including applicable rebates, but not including TTL), that's what I call value for the money. I can't even buy an Accord LX 4-cylinder with automatic for that price locally, and for what the Sonata Limited offers, it's really an easy decision. And, if I wanted to consider the Sonata GLS 4-cylinder with 4-speed automatic, I can buy that for $16,194. Either Sonata can be purchased for less than what some Civics are now typically going for these days. For me, it's simply a logical decision. And, yes, the above prices quoted on the two different trim levels of the 2007 Sonata are real, and were just offered to me this week from a Hyundai dealer.
I've had excellent reliability with Hyundai, and I personally know folks who have over 200K on their Hyundais without any major failures. Proper preventive maintenance is the key; I'm convinced that most cars available today will have excellent long-term reliability given strict adherence to the recommended maintenance schedule.
Maybe I'm just critical of interiors. I don't care much for the new Camry and it's aqua plastic, or those look-like-they-will-date-quickly door grabs. The Fusion interior is drab, the Sebring probably has El Cheapo DCX plastics, the Galant interior is pretty bad...
It doesn't bowl me over, but I think the Mazda6 probably has the most attractive mid-size interior.
The dash design is nice, but the shifter looks dated, the plastics don't look entirely pleasant to the eye, and the less said about that "wood", the better.
That faux wood has been improved over the picture there you refer to. That picture is of a 2003 model, and I agree it looks pretty "faux!" The newer model does look a lot better, trust me. I personally much prefer the metal-look trim in the gray and black interior Accords over the wood trim; true for me in just about any car.
How do you mean the shifter looks dated? I'm guessing you are referring to the lack of a manu-shift gate? If so, that's probably a fair statement, although I'll always prefer a straight-line automatic shift pattern to gated (it's easier to do in a hurry). I drove a friend's Acura CL (2001) for a while, and hated the shifter. The manu-matic was fun...for about 5 minutes. If I had wanted to shift myself, I'd get a manual. That's just me though; all about simplicity.
For me, I preferred the style of the Accord over the Mazda's, and the Camry wasn't even an option when I got my car (Nov. 2005). The sea of faux-metal was a bit much for me in the 6.
You should see it in a black interior. The aluminum-look contrasts nicely there.
For the '06-up models, it's now a black finish with silver trim.
Too good looking, and looks like TL. Probably TSX, so Accord in rest of the world.
To me, if you have a tan interior the the whole dash should be tan or at least a brownish sort of color. (Luckily for me, I don't like tan interiors anyway)
I wouldn't say that I am crazy about it but I'll take it over the tan-on-tan look. However, my favorite is always the all black with alluminum trim look (or at least with the metallic color trim). The downside for the all black interior is that it's just so dang difficult to keep it clean.
I still prefer the Accord's interior in the end though, whatever color combo - It seems more intuitive (but then again, I've driven Hondas for 4 years now...!, I may just be used to them more).
The wood trim in the Accord better matches, IMO.
The 6 would look much better with an all-black interior. The last one I was in was all-black, I believe. It was night time, so I didn't get a good look, but I must say I love the red backlighting (yeah, lame, I know, but it's nice and clear and seems reasonably sporty; which is what Mazda and Pontiac intended)
There's been a lot of talk on Accord and Fusion but not much on Aura, Avenger and Sebring... what do you guys think? Are they a credible threat?
Not talking about that MDX. I said "2007 MDX that competes with the x5 and Cayenne..." . The MDX I'm talking about is the new redesigned one! This 1:
"Have not had such problems, even on a cheap Hyundai or Kia yet.
No matter what, I'm not buying Hondas anymore."
EXAMPLE 1
From one bad experience with one truck, refuses to buy any other honda. My mom had an 02 Sportage and has had many problems with the AC, transmission, power windows, rear seats, door locks, tailgate spare, and so on. My brother's 1995 sonata whose Radiator shattered the day he took it home. He fixed it and it happened again 2weeks later. Thats what I mean by bad build quality. How many hondas have done that?
-Cj
Still hope we get it as an accord with the TLs engine so the can TSX stay the same styling wise. Performance wise is a different story; It should get a Type-S badge and engine. At least 280hp is required for the TSX to stay competitive with the IS350, 3, and G35. Add SH-AWD to it and you'll have on GREAT sedan! The RDX's engine is great here to since the light-weight TSX can squeeze out some more power.
-Cj
'I don't wanna go'
So it's doing the minimum ( buy Toyota technology ) so that it can say to stockholders and the public..
'See we have one. Happy now?'
Honda's diesel developments along with their hybrid technology are beginning to become cutting edge. Nissan will watch the other two and see which way the wind blows.
Anyone want to take a road trip to buy the altima hybrid?
-Cj
You said this.
I said, it will only be a matter of time for consumers to find out you don't have to pay the extra $$ to own a reliable and quality built sedan.
There is a picture of the Accord dash from the same distance. The Accord speedo numbers are bigger, and easier to read, you can plainly see that, regardless of camera angle, or distance.
But, as long as we are on topic, look into Hyundai's Lambda engines 3.3 & 3.8. As a matter of fact, both are de-tuned and their potential/flexibility might be beyond many's imaginations. It's just as great as the others in the class.
At current stage, Nissan will only sell its Altima hybrid in eight states - shame it's not making a full force entry.
I had my old Accord for 12 years, and sold it for $5,000 with 140k miles on the odometer. Doubt you could get that much for a 12 year old Hyundai with those miles. An Accord is worth more than a Sonata, whatever the age. "It may be used, but it's still a Honda". Haven't I heard that somewhere before.
I don't think there will be a "line" for Fusions. You won't have to get up early, to beat the crowd.
Early indication for the new Sonata has its depreciation costs improved dramatically. If Hyundai continues to make quality and reliable cars, which it has shown consistently during recnt years, its depreciation will continue to improve - still early in the game...
It takes time, Honda went through the same thing to where they are today. I have no doubt Hyundai will achieve the same thing, probably in less time.
Those improvements have kept building since then. i.e. the '05 is better than the 2000. And the '06 is, of course, a new generation built in a new state of the art asembly plant.
How about this scenario... all before 65K miles!....
I spend 1,500 replacing a domestic 3-speed auto before I hit 65K miles before the year 2000.
I spend another $1,200 replacing the A/C, and even more replacing the burnt belt because of the defective compressor.
I spend another $650 for a faulty head gasket.
I spend more $$$ on a cracked windshield all the way through (cracking for no reason while parked and protected), leaking o-rings, snapped alternator belts/serpentine belts, leaky glue on the window seals, wind noise leakage everywhere, rattles everywhere, corroded battery terminals, starter cables and wires, faulty 02 sensors and such. All told easily over 4K spend prior to 2000.
If I had invested that 4K in an average mutual fund in 1999 and bought a Honda in 1994 instead, I'd of saved not only the 4 grand, but made over a thousand dollars in interest earnings, saved on gas mileage, saved on tow trucks, and saved on resale (another 3 grand lost). You are approaching burning $10,000 dollars buying a domestic instead of a Japanese vehicle in only 6 years!