Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

kdshapiro · October 2006

No I'm not. The residuals are important to the secondary car market for cars coming off lease. The actual value of car at end of lease - auction prices are very important. What ALG tends to do is estimate this x years down the road, while the a particular residual for a particular car is dependent on the lease agreement. Part of the residual value three years down the road is dependent on the manufacturing incentives at time of purchase.

comp386 · October 2006

I can't argue about Honda standing by its products since I've never owned one and don't really deal too much with Honda. A lot of people have been burned by the domestic manufacturers and that's why they have such an uphill battle. I think their quality has pretty much reached par, but that really isn't good enough. They need to be better. And for some people, even that won't really matter. I wished the domestics had customers like Apple, but that's another rant. :P

comp386 · October 2006

Ford decided to go with the Ford Fusion a Mazda 6 platform rather than the Ford of Europe and Volvo platform. I don't think it's a bad choice since the Mazda 6 won Edmunds editor's choice (although it's not wining much in the way of sales). What I don't understand why Ford can't just bring some of these vehicles over directly though without any sort of re-engineering.

elroy5 · October 2006

The American car market is totally different from other countries. Americans were brought up riding in big heavy domestic cars (Impalas, Crown Vics, Chrysler New Yorkers, Bonnevilles) that ride very smooth. The foreign car market is smaller, more economical cars with stiffer suspensions and a sportier look and feel. The larger a car gets, (for American taste) the less sporty it feels and looks.

Example: The car Honda sells as the Accord here in America, is not sold in other countries. The car sold in other countries is called the Aspire, and is the same size as the Acura TSX (smaller, sportier looking car). It seems most Americans want larger, smoother riding cars than people in other countries, hence the higher Camry sales, than Mazda6 sales here. Americans are obsessed with a smooth ride, with some exceptions.

maple2 · October 2006

The foreign car market is smaller, more economical cars with stiffer suspensions and a sportier look and feel.

do you really think toyotas look and feel sporty?

elroy5 · October 2006

The cars Toyota sells in other countries are probably very different from the cars sold here. I know the cars Honda sells elsewhere are different from the American models. The car we Americans know as the Accord is not sold in other countries (American market only).

scape2 · October 2006

"How can an upcoming model be proven to be reliable? "

Same way the Ridgline, Odessey, Fit, and the Element get high reliability marks... :surprise:

scape2 · October 2006

I vowed I would be honest in this forum since I rattle so many cages with Honda/Toyota.
On the way to work this morning on the freeway I happened upon a Camry SE V6 in Silver. In truth he happened upon me in my Fusion SEL V6. I was doing 65 MPH and he pulled up beside me and well you know what happend next. I thought to myself what the heck, I know I'm going to get spanked but lets see what all the hoopla is about this V6 in the Camry. Up to about 75 it was pretty even, after that he pulled away steadily from my Fusion. But within about 1/2 mile he had to break because of traffic. Camry V6 is pretty quick no doubt.
So, I had to tell myself. He spent an extra $3-4K than I did. My Fusion looks better and I get an average of 26.7MPG. and can average a solid 31MPG on road trips. My insurance is probably less.

scape2 · October 2006

In another Forum and in an article on the net. Ford is cutting back on dealerships. Escpecially those with poor customer service records and low sales. I think this is fantastic! This is supposed to be another way Ford is going to try to turn its image around. I hope its true and I honestly feel it will work.

thegraduate · October 2006

At least the Ridgeline and OdYssey come from existing powertrains (The 3.5L has been produced since the 1990s), the Edge's 3.5L is brand new iirc...

It's not an excuse though, I'll give you that. I think if Consumer Reports give Odyssey a predicted "good" rating based on past info, then the same should be done with Volkswagen, it's info likely being poor. Best I remember, Ford is usually around the average.

andres3 · October 2006

I respect your opinion....but....we all know Honda issues with there tranys on there 2nd generation Odyssey as well as the last generation Accord....Honda steped up to the plate and offered warranty extensions and in many cases covered these trannys long after warranty expiration...my point is the big three have had major quality issues and problems over the years but is never willing to take that extra step to take care of the consumer...We are just expected to live with it....that has been in my experince as well as other family members and friends...just my 2 cents

I exactly concur and agree! Couldn't of said it better myself. Dodge dealer said "parts just break down" when asked why I have to keep coming back after having them fix my car. Honda dealer "we'll get you a rental and overnight a new transmission assembly so that you can get back on the road with your Honda on Wednesday (from turning it in MOnday morning), not only that, but your new tranny will be warranted for ANOTHER 36K from 42K. Sorry for the inconvenience sir" Night and DAy.

thegraduate · October 2006

I exactly concur and agree! Couldn't of said it better myself. Dodge dealer said "parts just break down" when asked why I have to keep coming back after having them fix my car. Honda dealer "we'll get you a rental and overnight a new transmission assembly so that you can get back on the road with your Honda on Wednesday (from turning it in MOnday morning), not only that, but your new tranny will be warranted for ANOTHER 36K from 42K. Sorry for the inconvenience sir" Night and Day.

Amazing... we had the same experience with our Chrysler/Dodge dealer of our Chrysler convertibles (they had transmissions for lunch and suspensions for desert)AND with our Honda dealer (only one major problem since 1982 and 17 vehicles). Honda treated us like family, Chrysler treated us like an inconvenience to them.

akirby · October 2006

I have no idea what point you're trying to make. Are you saying the ALG residuals that I posted are wrong? That's what ALG (THE industry standard) is estimating these vehicles will be worth after 3 years and their estimate includes whatever incentives they think will be offered down the road. That's why it's called an estimate.

Manufacturers can subsidize their leases to lower the cost or change the residuals but then it's apples to oranges if you're comparing brands or even different vehicles.

andres3 · October 2006

Amazing... we had the same experience with our Chrysler/Dodge dealer of our Chrysler convertibles (they had transmissions for lunch and suspensions for desert)AND with our Honda dealer (only one major problem since 1982 and 17 vehicles). Honda treated us like family, Chrysler treated us like an inconvenience to them.

Yes, I think Chrysler designed their vehicles to be mediocre until 36k, and then fall apart and make them money in repairs thereafter. Transmissions, head gaskets, o-rings, belts, rattles, seeping glue, A/C's that die at 36,001 miles. All the expensive stuff! :mad: :sick:

Honda seemed GENUINELY embarrassed that something went wrong with my Accord, and fixed it free of charge, rental included. Dodge.... well... they seemed happy to stick me with huge bill after huge bill to keep my car running.

backy · October 2006

I think it's a dealer thing, not a brand thing. I owned two Dodge minivans for a total of 13 years. Always had them serviced by the same dealer (although I bought one of them from another dealer). I have never had better service from a dealer.

andres3 · October 2006

I think it's a dealer thing, not a brand thing. I owned two Dodge minivans for a total of 13 years. Always had them serviced by the same dealer (although I bought one of them from another dealer). I have never had better service from a dealer.

I'd rather have a "brand" that never requires me to visit the dealer. I'd like to never find out if the dealer sucks or not. My dream car is one that never requires me to go back to the dealer.

backy · October 2006

That would be SOME car... no oil changes, no transmission fluid changes, brakes that never wear out, etc. Let us know when you find one of those!

thegraduate · October 2006

Here are two examples of when both companies screwed up:

Chrysler (1996 Serbring Convertible JX 2.4L) -

The transmission fully locked up on I-59, causing the car to come to a stop in pre-rush hour traffic. Mom picked dad up off the interstate and drove them to the dealer (only 5 miles away) leaving the car on the shoulder. When they showed up (in mom's Accord mind you) at the dealer 20 minutes before closing time, the dealer told them that getting the car towed was their problem, and they couldn't possibly run the paperwork on getting the car fixed (it was 34,000 miles - in warranty still) until the next morning. They were no help; in closing, they sold the car while it had a few hundred miles left in warranty.

Honda (2002 CR-V LX 2WD) -

Mom and dad are traveling down a two lane road (Hwy 150 in B'ham, AL if you are familiar by chance) when dad sees white smoke in his rear view mirror. He pulls over and cuts off the engine. Turns out, the oil filter (faulty) has allowed all the oil to drain from the engine (he had had the oil changed the same day at the dealership). They called the dealership hoping by chance to catch someone before locking up the store (it was 7:30 PM or so- service closes at 5, sales at 7).

To sum up, the sales manager came to pick them up where they stood stranded(the salesman who took the call phoned the manager to tell him what happened), and called a tow truck for them and had the car towed to the dealer... By 8:30, they had a loaner Civic and were on their way... Dad wasn't comfortable continuing driving the CR-V, despite the repair, so the dealer bought the 15 month old vehicle back for only $800 less than mom and dad paid 30,000 miles ago. They bought a new Accord after that.

Just goes to show the difference in two companies' dealers.

lilengineerboy · October 2006

The foreign car market is smaller, more economical cars with stiffer suspensions and a sportier look and feel.

do you really think toyotas look and feel sporty?

I almost spit the Dr Pepper out of my nose when I read this. Point-maple2

elroy5 · October 2006

do you really think toyotas look and feel sporty?

No, not the ones sold in America. The cars Toyota sells in other countries are probably not the same cars sold here. I do know the Accord we drive in America is not sold in other countries. Honda has learned to give the Americans what they want, larger, smoother riding cars than they sell elsewhere. When Honda started selling cars in America people said what? Too small, underpowered, and ride too rough. So now Honda makes cars "tailor made" for Americans.

derrado1 · October 2006

In Australia, we get the US Accord (Accord) and the European Accord (Accord Euro).

The Accord Euro is seen as one of the best in the mid-size class, up there with the Mazda6. The Accord, conversely, is marketed as more luxurious, and is consequently pit against upscale versions of Commodore, 380 (Galant) and near-lux cars like the Maxima (Teana). Many of the journos think the handling is so-so, the styling dopey and that it's not the best value. They see these faults as especially glaring next to the Accord Euro, which is perceived as near-faultless. So, the US Accord gets much less attention here. I suppose if it was marketed against mid-sizers and not near-luxury, and priced accordingly, it might gain more favour.

Here in Australia the best-selling mid-sizer is Camry, followed by Mazda6 and Accord Euro. The mid-size market stagnated for a while, but now with new, competitive products and higher fuel prices, there's been a resurgence and sales of larger cars (Commodore, Falcon, 380) have fallen slightly. Ford's even considering bringing back the Mondeo, which sold poorly and was discontinued back in 2000 (think paying 300 money for a Sebring... what would you choose?). We don't mind smaller mid-sizers here, although the US doesn't seem to be rapt with more bloated models such as the Accord... I guess the "bigger is better" mantra lives on, there? Or maybe it's just a comfort/preference thing.

zzzoom6 · October 2006

I wonder if the accord euro is the acura tsx here...I think I've heard that before. I saw a picture of the mondeo sedan and it looked really good. had style that ford hasn't had too much luck in designing of late for the US market(although I do like the look of the fusion).

It does seem as though the US market is still hooked on the idea that bigger is better, but with higher gas prices, I think many people are starting to change their thinking. After all, why is more space than what is comfortable necessary? It generally just results in boat-ish handling and longer braking distances...

So in the Land Down Under, are diesels pretty common? If Honda's diesel makes it into the accord, that could be interesting...good torque, good fuel efficiency, combined with their promised low emissions could be a potent mix.

That's one thing that I respect about Honda...their R&D department makes some interesting things that most other car companies wouldn't even think of trying (ie solar panels, new ways of making ethanol f/ biomass, fuel cells for cars and homes, more fuel efficient jet planes, etc).

derrado1 · October 2006

The Accord Euro is indeed the Acura TSX. And personally, I think the new Mondeo looks pretty blah. Maybe it's the detailing that ruins it for me, but it's all pretty unimpressive, IMO.

We're actively seeking out more economical cars here, as well. However, consumers are not jumping on the hybrid bandwagon. The only hybrids here at the moment are the Prius (quite rare, although some state governments bought some) and the luxo-hybrids, GS450h and RX400h. The GS450h represents quite a good deal, though, as here it's cheaper than the GS430. Still not a Lexus man, though. Too anaesthetic, but they're improving.

Diesels are go! Here in Australia, currently available or available soon include diesel versions of Accord Euro, Astra, Golf, Passat, Mazda6... even Holden's considering diesel versions of the Captiva crossover and the Commodore. Hybrids are rarely spoken of here, whereas diesels are becoming more prevalent. Hell, if you gave me a Golf (Rabbit) with DSG and a diesel engine, I'd be pretty happy.

I must say though, it'll take a while for us to become as diesel-inclined as Europe, where around 50% of cars sold are diesels.

tlong · October 2006

[the American nameplates] I think their quality has pretty much reached par, but that really isn't good enough. They need to be better.

The problem is that quality is only one part of the story.
Let's assume that quality (as in reliability) is equal to the Asian nameplates.

The other factors that drive consumer interest and desire include tactile feel and refinement. I know that when I rent most American cars I feel I have an imbalanced washing machine on spin cycle. Ever listened to the engine in a Ford Taurus under acceleration? I had a (brand new model in '06) Jeep Grand Cherokee as a rental and it was amazing how poor the ergonomics were, how thrashy the engine was for the low power output it provided. These vehicles can be reliable as they want to be, but with those characteristics I'm never going to want one as a daily driver. I'm going to buy some refinement.

bobad · October 2006

I'm going to buy some refinement.

It's amazing what a little sound deadening and colorful dash lights can do for the perception of "refinement". Most car manufacturers don't have a clue that $200 spent in the right places can make their car appear much more refined and of much higher quality. I just don't get it. :confuse:

comp386 · October 2006

I don't know if Taurus is a good example since it's a defunct vehicle, but the Duratec 30 used in the Taurus is the same one used in the Fusion and Mazda 6. Unlike most Mazda versions of Ford engines, it does not have any enhancements on it. Edmunds did say that the Fusion engine was very thrashy, but they seemed to be pretty happy with the Mazda 6. I think that goes to the bias people have. Both vehicles also use the same AISIN transmissions I believe. Any who, the Duratec 30 is very outdated. Ford needs to release a new version based on the cyclone engine.

comp386 · October 2006

These are all dealer experiences though. My parents owned a Toyota Corolla. They took it into their local dealership to get the battery changed. A few months later, the battery failed. The dealer denied that it was their battery. They even produced the receipt and the dealer refused to acknowledge that the battery was theirs. We've had countless repairs where it was highly suspect that anything was in fact wrong with the vehicle. In contrast their Oldsmobile was excellent. Once they took their vehicle in for some service. The dealer pointed out some problems with their wiper blade and he changed them for free. Every other repair we've had on it, the dealer has been nice enough to show us exactly what was broken.

Most auto manufacturers will stand by their vehicles beyond the set limit. I don't know too much about Chrysler because I've never really liked their vehicles much, but I know some people who work at Ford's customer service division and they correct problems just like that. If you have problems at 36,001 then the manufacturer will pick up the tab.

venus537 · October 2006

"These vehicles can be reliable as they want to be, but with those characteristics I'm never going to want one as a daily driver. I'm going to buy some refinement."

BINGO!!!

I harp on this all the time. There's a lot more to quality than reliability. I'll take a Passat over let say a Pontiac G6 anytime. The G6 may be more reliable but it's way outclassed by the Passat. Am I going to be concerned about a couple of percentage points in reliability or the elegant engineering I can appreciate every time I step in to my car?

Other than the Fusion and Aura there are no domestic cars I would consider in this segment.

andres3 · October 2006

That would be SOME car... no oil changes, no transmission fluid changes, brakes that never wear out, etc. Let us know when you find one of those!

Those are all things you can do at any auto shop or mechanic's shop. No need to go to dealer for those maintenance items. But you do have to go to the dealer for all warranty/break-down issues.

scape2 · October 2006

"but the Duratec 30 used in the Taurus is the same one used in the Fusion and Mazda 6."

No it is not the "same". the Fusion/6 have VVT. The 3.0 Duratec has been massaged along the way and is NOT the same engine as it was when introduced in the U.S. in about 1996. Do you really honestly believe Ford just sits back after developing an engine and does nothing?? C'mon folks.. :confuse:

captain2 · October 2006

Do you really honestly believe Ford just sits back after developing an engine and does nothing?? C'mon folks.
Not because they want to - but product development will always be proportional to a mfgrs. profit margins - something that has in non-existent in 'Detroit' for a number of years now.
The DT 3.0 problems are not just that you can add 20hp by changing some intake valve timing but it is how bad it feels and sounds doing it. Same thing can be said for the GM 3.8 another reliable engine that just simply doesn't measure up in refinement. Even Hyundai's 3.3 and 3.8 are much better efforts and the 'Japanese' V6s and 4s? - well about the only thing have have in common with Ford/GM/DC efforts is the no. of sparkplugs.
That said, the new DT 3.5 is apparently much much better - if only Ford had had the money to put that engine in the Fusion/500 2 years ago - both models are well designed cars with inferior drivetrains...

backy · October 2006

Sure, you can have regular maintenance done anyplace. But because of the great service I got at the Dodge dealership (including free rides home), and their reasonable prices for routine service, I liked going there.

And btw, you don't have to go to a dealer for breakdowns, as long as you have receipts for the work.

kdshapiro · October 2006

Saw the Aura, nice car, nice writeups from the rags. A Saturn/GM would never make it to my garage. A Ford would never make it to my garage again. In this segment my choice would be an Accord. I'll take my chances with one, sporty or not, reliable or not.

andres3 · October 2006

And btw, you don't have to go to a dealer for breakdowns, as long as you have receipts for the work.

Yeah, good luck going through the mountain of paperwork you'd have to fill out, submit, and mail or turn in. And oh yeah, by the way... the check should arrive 12 weeks later.

Good grief!

comp386 · October 2006

I really wouldn't call the engines inferior. Again, Edmunds picked the Mazda 6 as its editors choice. Now I'm sure there were factors other than just the engine, but it really can't be bad if they picked it. I don't want Ford to just be good, I want them to knock the competition out of the water and that requires the refinement of the Cyclone. I think there will be a replacement coming soon though. Mazda is updating its 6 next year and I wouldn't be surprised if it sported a shiny new cyclone.

zzzoom6 · October 2006

The DT 3.0 problems are not just that you can add 20hp by changing some intake valve timing but it is how bad it feels and sounds doing it.

actually the 3.0 is pretty smooth with a nice long flat torque curve. and at full throttle, it has a nice growl to it; not as nice as a v-8, but in a much higher class than the v-6 that's in the impala for example. is it as good as the sonata, accord, altima, or camry? no, but it is nowhere near "bad".

it's even been an engine that some exotic car companies have used to power their cars like the Noble M12. Granted, this engine had a turbo put on it, but this suggests that the 3.0 has a good deal of strength along with many desireable characteristics.

the duratec 3.o is a smooth and sweet engine that loves to rev and even with a bit of a power defeceit compared to it's peers, the mazda 6 can still hit 60 in 6.5 seconds (mtx). the stock sound in the mazda 6 is decently aggressive; modify the airbox or add a cold air intake and it will have a nice hearty rumble to it when accelerating hard. Or drive it mellow and you'll hardly hear it at all.

mfletou1 · October 2006

Added a 2007 Toyota Camry Hybrid to their Long Term Fleet.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/oneyear/112_0610_2007_toyota_camry_hybrid/

I got a kick out of their initial read on it:

Perhaps even more impressive is the Hybrid's acceleration: 0-to-60 mph in 7.7 seconds and the quarter mile in 15.9 at 89.1 mph, both of which are quicker than those of the Buick Lucerne CXL and Mercury Montego Premier AWD we tested in June. We should also note that the Camry Hybrid serves up around 10 mpg more than the Buick and Mercury. As technical editor Kim Reynolds puts it, "The Camry Hybrid makes you ask how other carmakers can defend their comparative inefficiency."

Pretty strong words. Of course, they note that its "Lexus-like quiet" and "pleasurable to drive." Wait till they actually break it in. My first 3000 miles I average 34.6 mpg. My last tank on the same driving (older colder temps) was 36.1. 5000-7600 miles (where I am now) have all been on 36, no matter what I do to it.

Is it cheap? No. Is it worth every penny? You better believe it.

And value wise, it depends on the driver. I'm a very high mileage driver now, so an extra 14 mpg a tank for me (compared to my last car) adds up big time. And I got the big $2600 tax credit. So for me, a good value.

But no matter what else you think, a family sedan that runs a 7.7 0-60 and gets 35+ mpg in real world (EPA 40/38) is pretty damn impressive.

Oh, and not that these things are decided in such a short period of time, but 7600 miles and not so much as a solitary rattle. High volume Northern VA dealer where I bring it for normal service tells me they haven't had a single one come in for anything other than oil changes and tire rotations yet. Ironically, the highest tech Camry may be the most trouble free so far---CVT is flawless, and powertrain assisted by battery is quick and punchy from the get go.

lweiss · October 2006

No, no Saturns for me, they have the image of "chick cars". And no manly big SUV's either, that is too much the other way. And even my Volvo seems like a car designed for women (and I think the demographics of Volvo buyers match that, I read that somewhere a couple of years ago). And at least around here, Honda Civic/Accord and Toyota Camry/Corollas are the basic chick cars also. Maybe that's why I am heading for a Mazda6/Nissan Altima !!!

PS. Don't look for logic from me on this, purely emotion and image haha.

kdshapiro · October 2006

For me, it's not about the image, it's about the drive and practicality.

PS In my opinion, Saturns do *not* have the image you allude to. The Aura is certainly a "manly car". I wouldn't buy one though.

The Mazda6 is definitely ok and no Nissans for me, to many quality problems and I can't get past the looks of the entire model lineup. Normally looks are secondary to me but there has to be some draw to the styling. There is not one Nissan I can honestly say I like the styling of.

scape2 · October 2006

The Duratec 3.0 is really no slouch. I spoke with a Tech from a Ford Dealership. This guy had 25 years with Ford. He claimed the Fusion/Milan are "tuned" to have a growling type EXHAUST sound to them. My 3.0 is very smooth. At stop lights I can't even tell its running. Once again, percepetion and the media constantly bashing into peoples heads that anything from Ford/GM is simply inferior. :sick:

venus537 · October 2006

"Once again, percepetion and the media constantly bashing into peoples heads that anything from Ford/GM is simply inferior."

It's a good thing we have you to point out the real deal. I know it's an uphill battle to turn around that sheep herd mentality that's out there.

elroy5 · October 2006

He claimed the Fusion/Milan are "tuned" to have a growling type EXHAUST sound to them.

When the edmunds reviewer commented on the loud engine noise heard inside the V6 Fusion, he was talking about the unpleasant "thrashing" sounds coming from under the hood, not the exhaust. But of course Media=bias so I guess it's all "perception", right?

scape2 · October 2006

Thats funny, I don't hear thrashing... I guess once again ones opinion..

elroy5 · October 2006

Thats funny, I don't hear thrashing... I guess once again ones opinion..

What is also funny is, I knew you wouldn't hear it.

explorerx4 · October 2006

the basic duratec v engine design is available in several high end variations.

explorerx4 · October 2006

we have an escape with a 3.0. it does growl some when you rev it up. to me, it isn't a bad sound. of course, i like the sound of a 5.0, too.

oldcem · October 2006

I've got the 229 HP variant of the Duratec in my car. Its high compression, has VVT, and a multi-level induction system. Love the fat torque curve it has. Its smooth as silk, and, the exhaust note at 3 grand and above is quite nice. Love the way it performs in my heavy AWD sedan.

Regards:
Oldengineer

lilengineerboy · October 2006

I've got the 229 HP variant of the Duratec in my car. Its high compression, has VVT, and a multi-level induction system. Love the fat torque curve it has. Its smooth as silk, and, the exhaust note at 3 grand and above is quite nice. Love the way it performs in my heavy AWD sedan.

Regards:
Oldenginee

I always thought the baby duratec in the Contour sounded cool too. I miss that car.

captain2 · October 2006

about 18 months ago - and looking for a 4 dr sedan the 2 'Detroit' models that I interviewed - the 500 (DT and 6 speed) and the 300 (3.5 V6) vs. a no. of 'Japanese' models. The 500 surprised the heck out of me - a well designed 'space ship', fit and finish that rivaled the 'imports', with good egronomics. It would have been a few grand cheaper than the others, and I might have made into the sales mgr's office except for one thing - I turned the key and actually drove it. 'Thrashy' with a tranny that didn't seem to know what gear to be the best summation - ended up walking away wondering why Ford would put such an 'antiquated' drivetrain in such a good car. Had Ford been able to put a better engine in both the 500/Fusion would suggest to you that there is a strong possibility that they would be losing as much money as they are today, hence the mistake on Ford's part
For those of you that are 'Detroit' fans, I challenge you to name any 'U.S.' smaller displacement engine 4 or V6 that has represented anything remarkable or innovative in any way? And I think the answer to that question might just be that 11 year old DT, that really wasn't remarkable at the time - just competitive.

louiswei · October 2006

The US Accord is indeed selling in other countries with the same "Accord" badge. For what I know, Honda is selling the US Accord (and only US Accord) in countries like China and Taiwan.

The US Accord variant, "Inspire", only exists in Honda's home market - Japan. The model that wears the "Accord" badge in Japan is the same as the Accord Euro.

Many other countries like Australia and Maylasia has 2 different kinds of Accord - Accord and Accord Euro. In Europe, the only Accord is the Euro model which is essentially the same as the Acura TSX.

US Accord:

Honda Inspire:

Accord Euro:

Acura TSX:

As for Toyota Camry I believe there is only one model, which is the same one as we are getting here in the US. However, The Camry that's sold in Asia has a different front fascial and rear end.

US Camry:

Asian Camry:

Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

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