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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

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    thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Scape, my grandmother's 1996 Accord (which became mine at 115,000 miles or so) didn't need front pads until 132,000 miles, and still has the orginal rear drums, now wih 168,000 miles on them. Yes, that's with more highway than city driving, but impressive nonetheless for a 2,900 lb car.
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    exshomanexshoman Member Posts: 109
    Yup, I do the same thing. Going home, I've got a long, fairly steep downhill stretch where I could just lightly step on the brakes the whole way down (like most folks I observe), but instead I brake a bit, then let up and let it roll, and then brake a bit, and let it roll, etc.

    Instead of really heating up my brakes, this gives them a chance to keep relatively cool.
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    havalongavalonhavalongavalon Member Posts: 460
    And there may be a more subtle, but common, cause of rotor warpage: 'clamping the brakes' while stopped at a light. A trick to avoid the uneven rotor cooling that leads to warping is to stop a few feet earlier, then periodically release the brakes and let the car roll forward a foot or so, so that the rotors turn a bit. Then re-apply the brakes again. Do this every 10-15 seconds, while stopped in traffic, this way the rotors will cool more uniformly.
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    booyahcramerbooyahcramer Member Posts: 172
    Why not just downshift a gear?

    Can the Fusion even do that? Come out of overdrive? I thought it just had D or L.
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    lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    It can if you get the 5spd manual ;)
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    plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    Heh. Gotta agree. With a manual, you just shift down a gear and presto. Maunals also use their brakes less as you can use the transmission as well and if you drop it out of gear with the clutch in first, you don't have the engine/torque converter pushing against you at a stop.

    My brakes last easily double the length with a manual transmission .
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    thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Can't downshift in the V6 Fusion. I put my Accord in D3 on some long grades, but usually, when I press the brake for a couple of seconds on a downhill stretch where I am gaining speed, the car automatically drops to third gear automatically (unless going over, say, 55 MPH). It's really handy in some of the hilly section of Birmingham; no brake riding! I can just apply, the car will downshift, and usually, hold my speed in check. If it doesn't downshift, I can pull to D3.
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    thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    As someone who has been rear-ended at a redlight and pushed into an intersection, I'd leave the brakes applied when stopped, whether or not you have to to keep the car stopped. It may save you from bumping the car in front of you if you get rear ended, or worse, save you from being T-Boned because you were pushed into the middle of a busy road that has a green light.
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    plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    My point was that the automatic wears everything out a bit at the light because of this. The manual - you leave the brakes on as well, but without the clutch engaged, it's only held in place by the brakes.(and IF you do get hit, you'll not stall the engine, either, as long as you keep it in neutral)
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    thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Just checking :o)
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    kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    "My brakes last easily double the length with a manual transmission"

    Yeah but my clutch only lasts half as long. I never use the clutch to slow the car down. That's what the brakes are for.
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    kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    You get a big fat cigar. :P At a light and in a turn lane, my brakes are always fully applied and my wheel is straight unless I'm actually turning. It is much cheaper to replace brakes than a bump in your insurance or a lawsuit, because you hit the person in front of you after being rear ended. When I am in traffic brakes are applied fully until I'm ready to go.
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    skibry1skibry1 Member Posts: 174
    ...But I find myself using the clutch more. I enjoy making
    our Doubleought 626 all tingly coming to some stops!!
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    savethelandsavetheland Member Posts: 671
    <<Scape, my grandmother's 1996 Accord (which became mine at 115,000 miles or so) didn't need front pads until 132,000 miles, and still has the orginal rear drums, now wih 168,000 miles >>

    It means that Accord has mediocre brake pads if it takes it so long to wear out. I think it is typical to all applience cars. My Sable has 75,000 miles and pads still look like new - probably will last until car goes to junk yard.

    Well it is similar to cheap OEM tires. They may last forewer (Continental AS on my Sable has 75,000 miles on it and still can go another 5,000) but that does not mean they are good - just they are not performance tires. And try to stop car or accelerate on wet surface - you will immideately understand why they lasts so long.
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    bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,601
    What you describe is exactly what I meant when I mentioned "pumping the brakes" when coming to a stop sign or red light, regardless of ABS or not.

    I guess you just said it better. :)

    In my '05 Sonata, the A/T downshifts to 3rd (from top gear of 4th) a little under 35 mph. At about 20 mph, is would downshift to 2nd. Shiftronic allows downshifts at higher speeds. But, I don't that under normal driving conditions...on slippery (snowy) roads, I do it all the time.
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    thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I wouldn't say that. She drove to work 70 miles a day (round trip), and about 28 of that was beltway interstate (I-459 if you know Birmingham). She made this commute for six years and 115,000 miles. My dad only got 55,000 (either 45k or 55k, I'm not positive) out of his front pads, with a more stop and go commute than hers.

    The pads' abilites are fine, as they will lock up the tires on dry pavement, so stopping power is more than I can use.
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    chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    The six "Sporty Cars" Best Buys are: Chevrolet Corvette, Ford Mustang, Mazda6, MINI Cooper, Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky.

    http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006/11/01/027285.html
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    kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Call me jaded, but with the exception of the Mazda6 these cars are one trick ponies. How do the consumers view this list? Are sales in their respective categories in line with the title?
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    plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    My clutches last nearly forever, too. See, when the engine is in gear, it brakes wonderfully. But when it's out of gear, I'm stressing nothing except the syncros, which are made to do exactly that. And engaging the clutch from 15-20mph isn't going to hurt a thing.

    Last clutch I rebuilt was $650. A far cry from the last automatic. Never again. And the darn thing blew up on me two wears later. 25K miles and the tranny was shot again.
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    mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    To clear this up a little. If you get rear-ended at an intersection, and hit the car waiting in front of you (i.e. a chain-reaction), the local police agencies and most insurance companies will place blame on the person that STARTED the chain-reaction. Ask my co-worker about this one, he's been in not one, but two of them, each caused by a moron 3-4 cars back that wasn't paying attention.
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    kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    You are correct, but if I can avoid a collision to me it's worth it.
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    akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    What do sales have to do with it being a Best Buy? In some cases lack of sales makes it a better buy due to higher discounts. Miffed because a Toyota didn't make the list?
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    w9cww9cw Member Posts: 888
    "The six "Family Car" Best Buys are: Chevrolet Impala, Ford Fusion, Hyundai Azera, Hyundai Sonata, Mercury Milan and Toyota Camry/Solara."

    Looks like Toyota made the list to me.
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    akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    The list being questioned was Best Buy Sports Cars, not Family Cars.
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    lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    Why would that be questioned? Toyota doesn't make a sports car in the US.
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    akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Don't ask me, ask kdshapiro.

    chikoo:

    "The six "Sporty Cars" Best Buys are: Chevrolet Corvette, Ford Mustang, Mazda6, MINI Cooper, Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky."

    kdshapiro:

    Call me jaded, but with the exception of the Mazda6 these cars are one trick ponies. How do the consumers view this list? Are sales in their respective categories in line with the title?
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    kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    I did not mention Toyota, you did. I suspect you can't believe they are as big as GM. I was questioning what value the list has in influencing consumer behaviors. I can pick a list also, it's just as valid as that list.

    Great things about opinions, everyone has one.
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    akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    You're the one who thinks Toyotas can do nothing wrong. I was just wondering if you were questioning the list because no Toyotas were on it. The list is what the publisher considers to be the most value for the money - it has nothing to do with popularity or market share.
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    alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Does anyone care about Consumers Digest anyway? The Sports Car list is irrelevant in this forum.

    ~alpha
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    scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    Yeah!@! yet another nice award for the Fusion/Milan! :)
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    scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    Ok, I'll call you jaded, Jaded. :shades:
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    scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    What do sales have to do with it being a Best Buy? In some cases lack of sales makes it a better buy due to higher discounts. Miffed because a Toyota didn't make the list

    I still don't understand how the Camry can be called a "Best Buy" when it costs even more than a like optioned Accord????!! and at least $3-4,000 more than a like optioned Sonta/Fusion/Altima.. Milan...?!

    Honda Accord didn't make the list...
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    scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    "Does anyone care about Consumers Digest anyway? The Sports Car list is irrelevant in this forum.

    ~alpha "

    For some this list would mean everything if Honda/Toyota dominated it.. But since they don't, now it doesn't mean anything right? ;)
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    patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    No, he's correct. Other than the Mazda6, the cars on that list don't have anything to do with the topic here.
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    elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    I still don't understand how the Camry can be called a "Best Buy"

    They called it a "Best Buy", meaning you get a car that is well worth the cost. "Best Buy" doesn't mean the cheapest car in it's class. There are many things about a car to be considered, besides purchase price. That may be how you see it, but then you think differently from other people. :confuse:
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    kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    "They called it a "Best Buy"

    Best Buy does not mean cheapest, it means worth the cost and delivers as advertised.
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    scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    ""They called it a "Best Buy"

    Best Buy does not mean cheapest, it means worth the cost and delivers as advertised"

    THANK-YOU!!

    Best buy means more for your hard earned $$$. Remember the time when Honda/Toyota used to be the best value for your $$. I sure remember when Toyota/Honda entered the U.S. market and they had "cheap" cars/trucks. Low and behold!@ The quality was actually excellent, for "cheap" prices.. What a concept. Something that some folks don't equate with. Value for your $$.. Some believe if you pay more you get more?? Not in this economy..
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    thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Some believe if you pay more you get more?? Not in this economy..

    Then why did you pay $23,000 for a Fusion SEL V6 when an $18,000 Sonata is available? You paid more but didn't get more, if you believe what you say. I'm not sure you do though ;)
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    kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    DinG!!!!!
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    kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    "THANK-YOU!!"

    On the other hand, having someone call a vehicle a best buy still does not mean I believe it to be so. But I was throwing in my $.02 about the defintion of best buy when used in this context.
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    elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    The "Best Buy" for me is, the car I want, at a price I'm willing to pay. Not necessarily what some magazine reviewer says is the "Best Buy". I didn't buy an Accord because some magazine said it was good. That's what friends and family are for. (Let them try them out, before you buy one) ;) .
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    rogerbayarearogerbayarea Member Posts: 1
    There's a recall released report from NHTSA for Toyota Prius 2002 last July 06 expect Toyota to start recalling this by mid Aug 06, but there not doing it, as a matter of fact they tried to get away from it/from me to fix it.

    Here's the link...
    "www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/prepos/files/Artemis/Public/Recalls/2006/RCLMTY-072006-12- - 34.pdf"

    VEHICLE SAFETY DEFECT/NONCOMPLIANCE NOTICES RECEIVED DURING JULY ...... 34,771 MY 2001-2002 Echo and Prius passenger vehicles. ... which could cause the engine to stall while driving ... The recall is expected to begin early August 2006.
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    kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    start recalling this by mid Aug 06, but there not doing it, as a matter of fact they tried to get away from it/from me to fix it.

    While this is not pertinent to this thread did you receive an official notice from Toyota?

    If you didn't it means that your VIN probably wasn't in the range of VIN's affected.
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    ontopontop Member Posts: 279
    Not in this economy

    Not sure what this is reference to. What does this mean?

    I don't think Ford's 1 year history with the Fusion can come close to hanging with the CamCord's 20+ year legacy.
    If Ford charged for a Fusion what a CamCord costs they wouldn't sell any. Kind of like the Sonata story.
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    jimmy81jimmy81 Member Posts: 170
    Camcords have earned their king of the mountain status. It'll take a good 5 years (til 2010) to determine what effect the Sonata/Fusion has on this reign. I'm sure Honda (maybe Toyota) has taken these competitors into account when desiging and prepping the 08 Accord.

    But it seems to me Honda just can't miss when it comes to the Accord. Here a 5 year old design is still hanging tight (altho is slipping a bit in sales as of late) with it's competitors who've all redesigned their offerings. Can't wait to see the 2008 Accords.
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    maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    ...are their styling...for some reason Honda just can't design cars with a cohesive design anymore (they did back in the 90s.)

    The CR-V and Civic have me worried about the next Accord...

    I'm sure the Accord will remain best in class when the 08s hit, but I just wish they'd get back into the style game again, or at least make something that doesn't look weird (CR-V and Civic)
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    elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    You may think they look weird, but many people think they are great new designs. I think the 08 Accord will look very much like the new Civic. I think they both look much better than the old models. It's the look of the future.
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    zzzoom6zzzoom6 Member Posts: 425
    although this forum is primarily about midsize sedans, I think it's great that there is enough variety in this segment for one of the cars to make the list as one of the sportiest cars. especially considering how practical the mazda 6 can be... 4 doors, more than adequate room for most, different body styles that allow for more utility if needed/wanted, and a compliant and comfortable ride for when it's not appropriate to be zooming around.

    I think this speaks to the engineering of the mazda 6 that it can be a contender in both the midsize family segment AND the sporty car segment. usually the requirements for these segments are completely different, but somehow the 6 manages to balance the needs of a family and a person who loves to drive.

    add to this the great value of this car since it is not selling so well now; getting a car that has received so many awards and honors for 6 or 7k off of msrp is pretty rare. WTG mazda! :shades:
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    zzzoom6zzzoom6 Member Posts: 425
    not sure what you mean by cohesive, but to me the civic seems nicely designed. some parts are a bit controversial, like the severe windshield angle and the 2 tier speedo, but it's modern and different. at least it's not bland. but beneath the skin, its a wonderful car. as for the accord, the exterior is nowhere near controversial and I don't think it is anywhere near ugly either. but I do hope that they decide to take more risks with the next generation like the sports4 concept that they've shown at a few autoshows. as for the other honda cars, the s2000 is gorgeous and sleek, the element is a great execution of function over form, the odyssey is...well it's a minivan - what do ya expect? the pilot is fine, the cr-v is ok. now the ridgeline... it's so ugly it's almost ok. and their interiors are among the best in class imo. ingenious too: the carosel in the odysey, a locking trunk in the bed of a pick up, and seats that fold down and up against the walls in the element are nice touches.

    now if you were to look at the concepts from the LA auto show, you might have good reason to be a bit scared, but we're talking about the accord here where it sells incredibly well. I doubt they're gonna get too radical on a car that sells in the #'s it does. but then if you think the civic is radical, you may have a reason to worry.
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    mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    It's the look of the future.

    Then I'm worried about Honda's future.

    If the Civic was the last car on earth, I'd have to turn it down. I'm sure it's a great all-around car, and I know looks are completely subjective, but simply put, it's ugly. The five-acre dashboard and two-tiered look doesn't look futuristic to me, just dumb. The A-pillar extension into the front quarter panels and the windshield over the hood reminds me of the "Dustbuster" GM minivans from the early '90s. Look how well they sold.

    Again, this is all MHO, but if the '08 Accord turns out like this, it'll hurt its sales in a traditionally conservative market, and Toyota sales will increase even further.
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