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High-End European Luxury Sedans
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Comments
http://go.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=XD0R1N1JANRMYCRBAEOCFEY?type=topNews&st- oryID=8926664
Anyways...
The trunk is not a rip-off of a BMW 7 series.
It looks like the 1998 Maybach concept.
1998 Maybach concept
;-)
OK, it's been quiet around here.
Why would anyone want a Maserati SUV?
They had a concept a few years ago.
check the link
lame concept
Gee, that's just what I want: a clapped out Maser formerly used/abused by an LA type that was all flash and no cash (or maintenance). Someone is going to have to hold my arm down before I write a check.
anyhow the design is growing on me .
i never did like the 1992 thru 2005 s class from a design point of view .the design never grew on me as did the earlier mb's.
but this one just may.
a cheaper version of the maybach.????
i read somewhere that in germany they have priced the base at $ 3, or 7,000 above the bmw 7 series.
the interior shots posted above may be from the 12 cyl. if not ,and they are from a base with options ,this looks even better than i first thought.
Awesome!
M
I ordered a CLS 500 several weeks ago - Iridium Silver with sunset red leather interior. Supposed to be built about the last week in August. Not an AMG, but I don't plan to race it like in the video. It'll run plenty fast for me.
The CLS55 AMG actually lapped that very track faster than a lot of sports cars on their list, very impressive. I was shocked to see how flat it cornered compared to the E55 which rolls a lot more.
M
Somehow I knew that.
M
Be sure to listen to that V10.
M
The new M5 is a hideous car. The interior is a joke. The original concept of the M5 was a subtle, high-performance sedan (or wagon...E34 M5 Touring) without needless electronic gizmos and in-your-face side vents.
You will have to press the "M-drive" button on the steering wheel (to get 507 hp instead of the normal 400...what a dumb idea), put the electronic dampers to the hardest of their three settings, put the throttle to its most responsive mode, put the gear change to its most aggressive shift sequence (11 in all), and even the seats to their most hip-hugging position in order to have the most fun in the new M5.
I could go on, but I'll just leave a link to Dame Edna and this picture.
Dame Edna
The whole idea of the "M" was to take a model, stealth it, and make it into a monster performer. BMW did exactly that.
I happen to like Dame Ednas' look, so the new styling and I get along very well. No doubt the new look is polarizing, but the people who don't like the styling seems confined to Edmunds and the rags.
Everybody else loves the new look.
You think so? A couple of days ago I was stopped at a light in my Boxster S. A gent pulls up next to me in a cream puff E36 97 3-series convertible. He compliments me and when I also tell him how great his car looks he says “Sure looks better than the new ones, don’t you think? I hate them.” The venom in his tone suggested he wanted to pull over an vent about it for a couple of hours to a willing ear.
Then again, you may be right, he could be an Edmunds poster for all we know ;-)
BMW auto sales are NOT what they were hoping for and they are losing market share. Bangle protagonists, enjoy the current look while you can because it doesn’t work and I can practically guarantee these cars will be sobered up the next time around.
The new M5 is a rolling CPU, a freak of nature. I would hate to have to present a problem with it to a befuddled service department.
Not to be pedantic, but could you please share BMWs sales plan with us so we know what their targets are? Maybe someone on the inside, knows what the internal sales targets are for all of these LPS automobiles vs. plan.
The last I saw the 5 series was selling just under the E-class, which puts it ahead of all over cars in this segment - except the E-class.
see this post: syswei, "High End Luxury Marques" #10029, 6 Aug 2005 7:17 pm
My guess is that BMW wasn't targeting a sales decline. What do you think?
Still with the sales decline, it for now, still is the sales leader, excepting the 'E'. For all we know, BMW may be jumping for joy as the number actually sold is double the projected target. So they don't give a hoot about the blip.
I guess its just blip after blip after blip when Lexus gains market share vs BMW year after year after year.
Enough said.
For 4 years the G35 has been predicted to be the BMW killer, still hasn't happened. The GS, and as an aside I like the look of the new GS, has been panned in almost every comparo. The old IS?. The new IS the jury is out. With 3.5 liters it's going to be a little thirsty. Can you say $3.00/gallon? It must might put some people off. The new 750, you can read the reviews on it, at least start with Edmunds first drive. How it sells remains to be seen.
Enough said.
So people, just think that BMW just a couple years ago sold more than a million vehicles per year. Their capacity is almost at 100% despite Bangle-design. In some ways a little drop in sales makes their life easier, because they can get their capacity under control. Yes, BMW wants to expand, but expansion can only happen so fast, and don't forget that most of their production is in Germany. They only started full production in Leipzig this year, where they build the E90. You'll see them be more agressive in the future.
Perhaps Panoz has the car for you.
Panoz
M
Sales of the top cars is about triple that of the bottom cars.
Audi's sales in the US are not a bright spot (but probably not a black hole either) in Audi's recent press release (with facts) wherein they proclaim this is their best year ever and that annual sales for the first time are expected to be 800,000 units. Audi has had steady improvements over the past 12 years in a row.
Audi, and I need to make sure I understand this completely outsells BMW "over there." In the home continent Audi and BMW are very close to each other in terms of percentage of market share. At this precise moment in time, I believe that Audi is outselling BMW, but this is in flux and there could be a change between these two companies and no one would be too shaken either way.
According to Business Week (Aug 15th issue) -- Mercedes has been struggling with quality issues and profits and I believe the comments suggested that Mercedes had been dethroned by BMW (which if I understand and extrapolate correctly would mean that Audi has also outsold Mercedes since it is apparently outselling BMW.)
What happens here and there are clearly worlds apart. Three times as many BMWs and Mercedes are sold here as are Audis. Not true in the home land.
Audi and BMW are apparently "on a roll." The BW article did say that Mercedes quality issues while not entirely behind them appear to have taken a turn in the right direction. Mercedes (DC) will soon have a new top dog (Dieter) who comes fresh from a profitable Chrysler (in contrast to a losing :sick: Mercedes?!?)
I like the looks of the new BMW 3 series, X3, and 6. I am trying to warm to the 5 (especially since it now can be had with AWD) -- and between the Audi A8L and the BMW 7, cannot imagine even considering the 7 it is to my eye so ugly.
BMW, in the US, seems to have been enjoying some good times (3X the number of A6's by the 5's! That's pretty impressive.) BMW clearly has been spending some energy and money on their products as has Audi (not that Mercedes has been resting on its reputation -- but when you're recalling over 1,000,000 cars you may have your focus temporarily shifted.)
It seems to me to be almost miraculous that the E class, last month, for instance, outsold the 5.
If I were BMW, I would wonder what will happen when Mercedes gets its quality issues firmly behind it -- for if Mercedes is able to outsell BMW even with its reputation in tatters (somewhat), look out for them when they no longer have to apologize for their products in such a public way.
Audi and BMW are on a roll (depending on how you parse this -- globally or in specific markets), Mercedes has clawed its way from the basement of reliability issues and apparently is "getting better."
None of these guys (well Mercedes is on the bubble) gives the other quarter -- and, despite the questions of my parentage or lineage or IQ that will no doubt arise, these cars share more similarities than dissimilarities. I'd be happy with any one of them.
Of course, I'd probably not be upset with a new Infiniti M or Lexus GS either -- but I realize they are not high end European cars.
For the time being, given a choice, I'd stick with the high zoot numbers from Audi, BMW and Mercedes and probably grin each and every time I got behind the wheel.
The W12 A8L (as seen in the Transporter 2 clip) looks like the one to beat, though.
I don't think a lot of people look at these issues like we do here on Edmunds. It doesn't surprise me at all that the E outsells the 5-Series. Surveys aside I'm surprised the E and the 5 are selling at the rate they are considering all the new competition in the segment.
I think Audi's problem in the U.S. is exposure. I've seen several posts on one board or another about Audi dealerships and how they're placed. Some close minded people will never consider an Audi because of that nonsense from the 80's about unintended acceleration. Europeans know better. For some reason Audi has this second place image in the minds of most people, not being as good as a MB or BMW. Some say this is because of their link to VW. I'm not sure what it would take to get Audi up to BMW/MB in perception the U.S. IMO they already have cars that are just as capable in most areas, so I think it may be be marketing and exposure that needs serious work. I've seen/heard people say "I didn't know Audi made a car that big" when they see an A8. Which is a knockout of a car to me. I see that for 2006 all A8s get the new grille too.
M
Thank goodness sanity prevailed at VW a few years ago when they decided not to put that Nardo concept into production. It was a fine car, but had no business in a VW showroom, kinda like the equally impressive Phaeton. I like VWs but they've got to get a clear picture of who their competition is, and it ain't BMW/MB/Audi, its Toyota/Honda/Ford/Nissan.
M
Maybe not. Mark, all the marketing gurus that I read (Troutman and Reis, for example) claim that once the king is knocked off his throne he is done. Fini. In other words, Howard Johnson and Xerox are not coming back. Now matter what Izod does it can not recover.
As you point out BMW is on a roll. Just like Lexus. While not an MB basher, I think that if these brands can put some daylight between themselves and MB, it will signify a paradigm change. People will talk about a steak knife or gollf club as the "Lexus of steak knives" or the "Bimmer of golf clubs."
some can come back with the right management group and strategy.
the problem lies in the positioning of the product and if it is a recovery the strategy to reposition it or re-introduce it.
m-b may be able to pull it off.
let us wait and see who takes charge of the company and watch his first moves.
Mercedes on the other hand has lost 5,000 plus units this year due to an aging E class line. The C class is down as well. More ponies on this years model will hopefully help.
http://www.aicautosite.com/editoria/asmr/svsedan.asp
The E-65 7-Series and the E-60 5-Series may be selling better than the models that they replaced, but they are not at plan for BMW.
P.S. - I'm no BMW basher, I still own one and I love it.
ffb has it right. It is all in positioning. Troutman and Reis, the marketing guys who developed the idea of positioning talk about the importance of being number one. We never, ever forget our first love, or our first car. The problem is that once you are toppled from the throne you have a hard time getting back on top. Will anyone ever hear something ever again described as the "Cadillac of ..."? (For those of you under 30, this was a phrase one heard daily in retail in the US up until the late mid 70's.) I don't think so.
Jaguar builds an XJ sedan that costs 10K less and has demonstrably more reliability than anything else in the high end lux segment. Yet they can't sell them because people still think that a Jag is unreliable. SAAB was "the" winter car among the professoriat, people living in New England, and free thinkers. Along came Suburu with AWD and Volvo with more amenities and you can't give a SAAB away.
This is the problem that MB faces.
It depends if you think some of his big current/planned projects don't mean much...
"Yet they can't sell them because people still think that a Jag is unreliable."
Maybe they can't see them because people do not know what a Jag-U-ar is anymore. I was a lover of the brand years, but I don't know what it is today. They didn't stick to their mission. You can't come back unless you come back stronger than what people recognized you for.
Some people here may think MB is washed up, I don't think so. Nobody has a crystal ball, MB is a tough organization that knows what their mission is.