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Comments
On the other hand who says we can't have it all? Seems now Suzuki has most ALL things sufficiently right for '09, (pending a future read on '09 GV reliability stats of course), that their next major engineering target could reasonably be to engineer a more unobtrusive feel to the articulations of the GV's suspension, while still retaining it's full suitability for off road use? Absent that, an all new Nissan Rogue like, glorified station wagon "crossover" with a car chassis/suspension, and this fine new four cylinder under the hood, might be a more appropriate option to fill that sort of a market niche?
Have to dust off my old saw and say I still don't understand why a Mate can go walkabout to the store in Aus today, and drive home in a brand new '09 with
five speed manual and the low range gear set AS STANDARD EQUIPMENT, while here in the Great White North, Sergeant Preston of the Yukon finds himself left out in the cold with only Nanook the wonder dog for comfort, sans having same even available here [yet]. What's this ongoing delayed gratification stuff, eh Suzuki?! I don't really want to give up a low range, much as I can rationalize about doing it sometimes. Will we have to wait almost a couple of years [again] to have one available here?
I agree it's a shame that the manual 5 speed doesn't come with 4 mode 4x4 (I guess they will do the same as when it was introduced in 2006, they will wait 1 year).
The 4 disk breaks are good, hope the rear ones won't cost too much to maintain.
This 4 cylinder should be more popular than the old 2.7L V6 with fuel economy near 2L/100km less and it's welcome. Yes Suzuki you made it.
Yet it won't make me trade my 2.7L for this one, even if they rate the towing capacity (1360kg) the same for both I still believe that I need those 20 to 30 pound foot of torque for my towing needs.
You mention something about the stiffness of the frame, did they change something ?
I couldn't understand the logic there. So we'll have to wait for details. LOTS of new sound insulation in there. Saw a Suzuki cutaway diagram showing that in a post from Australia.
About the 2.7, to keep ALL options open we are also going to re test an '08, and watch to see if those close out deals get even better. They should as the year winds down. When we first TD'd one a couple of years back, I was not in a position to best evaluate the handling, vs. our opportunity the other day with the new 4cyl. But I had no issues with the handling of the 2.7. Glad to hear they are so similar in that department, in your opinion. Thanks for the info. Wouldn't want to pay full MSRP for a new '09 yet, regardless. Always buy low, and keep them forever! Better half sure liked the quiet in the new cabin too. My first choice on the road would still be the base 4 with the 5 speed manual. It ought to be a good one.
As they are ventilated discs on the rear, that ought to help address potential problems brought about by the lesser quality steel mfgr's use for rotors today.
Apparently more of them will have a beige cloth interior this year. The blue may be it for new colors here? If so that's too bad.
Again from Aus: more NVH techno stuff. Prop shaft joints have been changed to sliding cv joints for reduced vibration and noise. Why hill descent control only on the six? Suzuki thinks more sixes will be used off road. How did they manage yet again to forget about ALL we prior Samurai and Sidekick owners?
Why can Crocodile Dundee get all those options right out of the box, and apparently we won't? Maybe it's because of a 12.6% 2007 GV sales increase down under? If that's the crux of it, (follow the money), and we know in contrast sales numbers fell off in North America in '07, well on that point I have say, hey Suzuki, HEADS UP!
My firm belief is sales dropped here for exactly the reasons so well outlined by xostnot in post #866. Specifically, [your] slow lead in time to bring these new improvements to market. We're just MUCH MORE demanding for ongoing change here, I think. I believe prior sales numbers data may have consistently mislead Suzuki company officials to arrive at hasty conclusions about market demand.
Just one example: PLEASE UNDERSTAND that far from it being a case of not many folks wanting go off road in one of your four cylinder models, the real reason you sold ever fewer, fewer, and still fewer Vitaras here, was because you so neglected the four cylinder model range, to the point where the marketplace, (including we, the faithful), completely lost any and all interest in them. In the meantime, four cylinder CRV's and Rav 4's were selling like hotcakes, but no, they didn't meet our off road needs. So again those sales numbers were not at all an accurate measure of actual market demand for an off road-able, up to date four cylinder Suzuki model, any more so then, or right now today....
STOP DISCRIMINATING against 4cyl fans who are amongst your most loyal of customers. Give us at least the basic goodies like the low range in a four cylinder model with the manual 5 speed, please.
To tone down the [my] rhetoric a few notches, (guilty), coming at this from another perspective, what is the sense of having the 5 speed manual in the base JA without the low range? To xostnot, (on this same subject too), yes, the JA is that soft roader fighter, (for now), the entry level one intended for mass market consumption. So logically without the low range on board, the JA would be going up against the Nissan Rogue, etc. As we know the mass market seems to prefer "those" with auto boxes. So why even config the JA with the 5 speed manual??? Maybe Suzuki should just switch gears making a 5 speed available only on a base JX with low range. It would then become the entry level off road capable model which so many of us desire. All the bells and whistles in the world mean nothing bouncing about on a backwoods route, (as the wife put it so well).
Most car companies show deference to repeat buyers, don't they?. It remains agonizingly perplexing here in North America, why Suzuki seems so reluctant to pay homage to it's historic roots and it's long time customer base. An entry level OR capable model should be kept available in the lineup AT ALL TIMES, just as in the past.
Thanks for the information about rear disk brakes being of the ventilated type.
Rear IRS evidently stronger with mods to it's location [attachment points to] the hybridized body/frame structure.
Re the six: as would be expected, improved linear torque delivery throughout the rev range, vs. the 2.7.
As mentioned before, strengthened hybridized body/frame and suspension mount point(s), and the suspension mount [location] mods at the rear, yield improvements to ride/handling, including better steering feel. The effect of that combo is probably what I thought I felt when I TD'ed the 4cyl recently.
The lighter weight three door [available abroad] 4cyl with the 5 speed manual,
is said to be real delight to drive. Again, our 5 door base JA ought to be about as good, except for NOT having the low range gear set option. But that sets a JA up to go head to head with a base Subaru Forester. Same price even here in Canada.
Take a hypothetical new soft roader buyer, one never needing or wanting a low range who of course was familiar with Subaru's formidable major marketing efforts and its brand recognition... A QUESTION: Which, (base Sube or Zuke JA), would she or he be most likely to opt for? If like me you might have say Forester, (and prior sales stats doubtless bear this out)?, well then.... Well then, doesn't that seem to indicate Suzuki should take a look at returning to doing what it once did best over here, by offering us our own Aussie-like equipped base model, well before launching a base Subaru fighter? Would there be a greater demand for a Suzuki Forester fighter, (which essentially is what the non low range JA is), OR instead might there be even more PENT UP demand for a MARKET NICHE DOMINATING, FULLY MODERN new four cylinder Suzuki GV equipped as we have suggested here Suzuki? Clearly its time you engaged four low to climb back up "The Hill of Confidence" from the top of which you might behold the wisdom of paying homage to your roots in Canada, if not in all of North America. Can't think of any more ways to say this, so I'll promise to quit trying.
Nwdsmn.
I nominate you to CEO of Suzuki and hope that you can clean up the financial sector of the USA. :sick:
There sure are many changes to the GV. I'm not sure of the 4 cyl. If the current V-6 doesn't have enough power, what can the 4 deliver? Other than a 5 speed in the gear range you are looking for, I can't imagine anything smaller in the GV especially with an auto. The bigger V-6 would be a welcome sight, but for me, I would buy an XL7.
My daughter just bought a 2008 Honda CRV. Again, we both need something to throw the dog in back and not looking for an off road vehicle. Underpowered, yes. Quality built, yes. It's really nice compared to the GV. To be honest, there isn't a comparison. I should have waited for the new CRV and would have been much happier.
That gets me to my last point. I also agree with xotsnot's list of bad things on the GV. The Suzuki will never be a quality built vehicle. It will never hold it's resale value. Sure, it's a bargain to buy, like the Kia or Hyundai but in the end, you will lose. I think you said it before, people want the Toyota or Honda in their driveway (hope you said that). I'm one of those people. I want some sort of return on my investment. Suzuki failed me, big time.
norwoodsman, I hope you get what you're looking for. For me/us, we're moving on.
Take care, Budman :shades:
The CRV is top drawer for sure, for what it is. Deeper in the woods the old trapper owns one too. Smart as a fox?, I couldn't argue with that though he has a Land Rover too. Think if I was you though, I'd be sorely tempted to reward myself with an Acura RDX with tecno package. But I digress...
Having had that chance to do a seat of the pants evaluation of what's new for '09, I'll restate my impression that the book now seems just as good as its cover. The four delivers linear power throughout the rev range too, and yr. fellow 1st gen "All New" GV owner, "bud's", TD indicates he was similarly impressed. But change can be a good thing too, so....
On quality control, a few days ago I came across an interview of "Rick" Suzuki when he was still the boss down your way. He was asked to comment about the GV's 2007 J. D. Power reliability stats. He acknowledged the issue and indicated they were addressing it. I believe him because they HAD TO make significant investments in that area with these '09 upgrades, (if not before, with the '08's too which may also have occurred?). If not, and the bloom fades off the rose for too many owners of the '09's for reliability issues, then I don't know what Suzuki would have to do next if they hope to expand, or even retain GV market share here. That's just my gut feeling...
Sorry we're going to lose you, but I understand. Previously I've felt one had to take a Suzuki into the dirt with some regularity to realize full value from the investment. They're obviously even a better deal if those opportunities are available right out the back door, or if you're a skier in the north country, (ditto, both). So a bit of a detailed equation always had to be solved for one to determine exactly how good a bargain they really were. Still, all the new changes for '09 DO make them genuinely feel more mainstream, (certainly so out on the road), while Suzuki apparently has improved upon the GV's core off road virtues too. All in all this seems to make the '09's a MUCH better bargain.
For us, with no dog and a son off the family payroll into the work force, honestly the wife leans towards the Forester in the absence of an '09 4cyl GV config'ed as we'd like. Then again if a new base '08 gets down to $18 something here.... Or if a pristine prior gen XL-7 turns up for around $10 as a stop gap.... Have to admit I'm getting tired of all these equations too....
My strong financial advice? Even though Sarah can see Russia from her house, vote for Obama!
Nwdsmn.
I think very simply we are potential Subaru Forester customers, (that's the truth for myself and my wife), who want/need the ability to go still just a bit farther out there off the beaten path, (with the low range), but with a bit more room for our gear and passengers. Just like those Subaru customers, we want a "Swiss Army Knife like" vehicle, but again we NEED those additional "blades" to help facilitate our "beyond Forester" outdoor pursuits. THAT'S IT IN A NUTSHELL.
So although the new marketing agency for North America must be about to pull the wraps off the '09 intro campaign, here's how I'dadunnit, for what it's worth... Use the same granola crunching, active outdoor person approach that Subaru has employed so successfully, (and Suzuki once did long ago). Remember the forest ranger sitting in the Sidekick, etc.? First and Foremost, extol and be proud of those OFF ROAD virtues!, don't just try to portray them as yet another different flavor CRV or Rav 4 for soccer moms! MORE PRECISELY target the unique niche which your vehicles are purpose built to occupy, (at least that's how they are perceived in the rest of the world, I believe). STAKE OUT YOUR OWN GROUND over here, thereby eliminating what I think is the marketing "Identity Crisis" that Suzukis may suffer from in North America?
UH, YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO COMPARE THEM AGAINST A CRV, RIGHT? N O T !
In "surfing" down under there in Australia recently, they don't seem to fall into this trap. Instead the vehicles are accurately seen, praised and portrayed FOR WHAT THEY ARE, instead of what some marketing types might want to try to pretend they are [not]. Another CRV?, RAV 4?, Saturn Vue?, Nissan Rogue?, Hyundai Tiberon?, not!, not!, not!, not!, and NOT! So why make that mistake when marketing GV's here in North America? Be proud of what they are and what they are uniquely built to do.
One last time, much sooner than later, stop repeating the dispiriting error of forcing the faithful to seem to have to BEG [here] for a traditionally equipped off road capable base model, (either a JA or JX 4cyl with manual transmission and low range), at least here Canada, eh, concurrent with new model introductions....
For what it's worth, the prior "Sport" model designation is just so much marketing FLUFF. To have to call a Suzuki SUV model a "Sport" is ludicrous, they are for sport [use] by definition. Seriously consider calling the 4cyl a "Vitara" in 2010, as a welcome gesture to restore the honor of the name, (world wide?), in the hearts of the faithful. Make them colorful too. The color range over here, (which may be little changed for '09?), is getting very stale. We're just as colorful here as our Aussie mates.
Cheers...
Nwdsmn.
Whitewater Pearl, Beige
Sandstorm Metallic, Beige
Slate Grey Metallic, Black
Black Pearl Metallic, Beige
Deep Sea Blue Metallic, Black
Volcano Red Metallic, Black
Some shots suggest "Volcano Red" may be sort of an orange/red. The new "Deep Sea Blue" looks to be the pick of the litter. No green or purple.
The four cylinder with auto and low range*, (*did not use low range on the TD), was a nice combo. They've worked at optimizing the shift points and got it right.
The base model in the US is rear wheel drive only, and no 4cyls are available equipped for "traditionalists" down south [yet] either. Obviously "over here" Suzuki continues to set a high marketing priority on making the Grand Vitara appear to be all things to all people. Prime example: what is the sense [at all] of diverting the resources of time money and effort, to build a two wheel drive Grand Vitara, other than as wish fulfillment for a handful of marketing geeks? Meanwhile though, while all that clamoring demand for a 2wd GV is being filled, once again core customers are left waiting for The Right Stuff.
Definitive stupidity. Otherwise, it's a time to rejoice over these new '09's.
Looks like we'll be Suzukiless shortly. :shades:
I was looking at some of the posts here and it looks like norwoodsman wins! Other forums, you would be considered a "post-ho". At least you have constructive criticism and I hope Suzuki reads all or at least some of your ideas. They should feel fortunate that the faithful(you) still exist but then there are the unfaithful (me) that just fade away to better things.
Good luck!
If you're really feeling your oats, check out the new Bimmer X6. Couldn't believe my eyes when I saw one on the edge of the woods here this spring. Some piece of iron. But the Acura MDX is an excellent choice. Who knows, I wonder if anyone close to plunking down cash for a new "whatever", might be amongst the last folks ABLE to purchase an SUV to meet one's own specific needs? I'm looking at it like that, as all vehicles will continue to be forced to slim down in every way, post peak oil. Yes, that Bimmer is incredibly thirsty! But on into the not too distant future, wonder how we'll come to regard even the reported 19 US mpg city, and 26 US mpg highway, fuel consumption figures posted for a new 4 cylinder GV? Here our long term plan is to keep the 38 mpg compact wagon, and conserve/hold in reserve, our next Suzuki SUV, (if that's how we go), to use it to meet our demanding recreational needs. AND to use it for MUCH safer long distance travel in our Canadian winters. Oops, but that's two vehicles, isn't it...? Haven't TD'd a Forester, but again a new base '09 GV with full time four wheel drive, is a bigger, tougher equivalent for essentially the same price, so.... So no low range. So...
On discounts: We did end up TD'ing an '08 2.7L JA a week after our outing with the '09 4cyl, just to refresh our memories. Wow. With the differences between the two models, (2.7 '08 six, and 2.4 '09 four), it will be a very long time before close out deals of a prior gen Zuke ought to approach "the goodness potential" of one's that should [continue to] materialize for '08's, particularly towards the last business days in December. It's either that or melt 'em down and start over with the raw materials. The new '09's seem almost that good to me, though in fairness I should note the wife opines she could live with an '08, for the right price. Enough from here. We'd ALL like to hear from folks who have an '09 in the garage now.
Nwdsmn.
Nice but nothing to write home about for the money. The MDX always came out on top and the fact that our friend owns an Acura dealer really paid off. cha-ching!
Why didn't we do the Acura earlier you say? The GV worked at the time for our daughter while she was in school. Now she's in college and just happened to take the Honda with her and left us with the ol Zuke. So now we're empty nesters and need a fun fancy suv to drive. Not really, it's all for the dog. The darn pooch costs us more than the kids ever did.
Well, we made the deal and MDX it is. I can't imagine spending anymore for a vehicle, especially what we use it for. All the reviews put it ahead of all the other SUVs in it's class. What we didn't realize was how much more we got for a few bucks more than the Zuke. Yes, quite a few bucks but what a world of differance. I hope Suzuki doesn't raise their prices along with their new technology. It sure won't pay off in the resale value.
Just happy to keep stirring the economy. :shades:
I'll stay in touch to let you know if we're still happy with our choice.
BTW, what happened to the rest of the crew here? :confuse:
Anyway, I kind of wish our 2006 had some of the attributes added in the interim. Especially the remote gas lid release. I live in fear of losing the key for the locking cap while on a long trip. It would be nice to have the sensible version of the mileage readout. But I think most of the improvements aren't such a big deal.
As for the new engines, I can get the same mileage by driving a little slower. Turn signals on the outside mirrors, speed sensitive radio volume control, hill start control and descent speed limitation? HoHum. Still no 2nd gear lever position on the 5-spd automatic. Which is something it REALLY needs, especially since you can't get the low range with a standard. Rear discs? Sounds like higher maintenance costs, and who complained about how the GV stops? Maybe it's to get rid of the brake squealing noise. Optional 18" wheels? Proof Suzuki isn't as independent from stupid trends as Suzuki would like us to think. Revised front crash structure and improved rear "axle" dynamics? Sounds desirable. Like the side airbags getting rollover sensors. At last.
The improved sound deadening measures are overdue considering how easy it is to do this. But I just dealt with that on ours by lining much of the inside with acoustic dampening material and beefing up the weatherstripping.
Still no enviable center armrest in the back seat, as provided in other markets. Still no way to remove the back seats so you can carry things bigger than a cooler. But it's nice they left the styling alone so ours doesn't look outdated yet.
So the '09 wouldn't be a big improvement for us. Now, if they put out an offroad version: diesel, 5-spd manual, 1" suspension lift and skidplates, I'd feel like I'm missing out on something. And put the off-road Patriot out of idle contemplation.
btw, while installing the acoustic insulation, I discovered the layer of foam carpet underlay and the styrofoam filler under the carpet in the drivers footwell have been fried by heat coming off the exhaust and catalytic converter under the floor. There was discussion earlier in this topic about someone melting right through the materials and the heel of their shoe. We don't do anything nearly as extreme as they did, with our GV, so I suspect lots of owners have had this overheating. On the other hand, only a small proportion of Canada's GV's would be driven over the Coquihalla in the summer. Apparently the Coq has the greatest elevation gain of any major highway in North America, and every km or so there's a patch of scorched pavement where a vehicle burned up on the shoulder. It would be interesting to know if any of those were GV bonfires.
(Anyone interested in the GV should look up the transsiberia race, where a huge swarm of factory Porsche Cayennes are pitted against two 2-door GV's and a mix of private entries. Last year, the GV's acutally did very well, not quite so well this year. But they do cost a fraction of the Porsches, and one was driven by an amateur crew. I'd be interested in knowing what broke on the GV's during the race, but it seems impossible to find out much about their participation.)
(Canoed to Vargas again this summer. Went too far beyond our comfort level in very dense fog one evening, and in stormy conditions on another day. Didn't make it to Blunden this year, but hiked all the way from Ahous to the NE corner of Vargas. Stunning beaches. Also hiked the Wild Side trail on Flores nearby.)
I've always noticed a burning smell after hwy driving. I just checked under the drivers side carpet and it looks fine. There is a couple layers of heavy material on the floor and the styrofoam sits on top of that.
With the new improved GV on the way, get ready for another hit on the resale value. It's really pathetic. 30k miles and 50% loss in value. :lemon:
It's sad because it still looks nice and runs well and it's already had a set of tires(@20k miles) which is also ridiculous. Factor in the cost of maintenance and a dozen visits to the shop and the story worsens. :sick:
I would have been better off buying one of xostnot's canoes.
In retrospect, I think the manual box '08 2.7 JA we just drove MIGHT have performed better post an initial break in period. However, not so with the 2.4 four, even with its auto box as the best compliment I can pay it here, (you're welcome Suzuki), would be: think Honda. Ya, our two prior new Accords way back when, benefited from a "loosening up", (slightly), in their first year, but both also felt absolutely great right off the showroom floor. That's my same initial impression of this new Suzuki four. On the rear discs, again try 'em. One tester noted they got into a panic situation out on the road, and he lauded the rear disc's goodness. I'd concur. Pads and rotor wear though, yes it's a valid concern, but... Again I'm a little disappointed they didn't choose to offer a base one with the rear drums and basic O/R gear for '09, (a Vitara Classic), to empty the rear drums parts bins.
I agree not much of this new content has much to do with the economic sense of jumping ship into an '09, if you have a prior gen "New GV" sorted out. You are all also now learning about trade in values of 'em too, I know. Sure interesting to note your own melted insulation report though.
As she drove manual trannie VW's in winter while dodging Moose west of Jasper Alberta when we lived there, (we spent last week on vacation back up there, and the Columbia Icefield continues to melt..), despite her recognizing ALL the goodness of the new four cylinder, sound insulation and all, it's the wife who says she Could go for an '08 2.7, while I don't think I could. For me it comes back to that Accord analogy re: this sweet new free revving econo engine, and yes, as someone who once had a 911-S in the garage, all the rest of the icing now on the cake which becomes evident out on the open road....
On the diesel, scuttlebutt seems to indicate though they have tweaked it yet a bit more for '09, there may still be concern re: market acceptance of its NVH characteristics in North America. It ain't cheap either, but equipped as you've called it, it would give a Rubicon Trail Jeep a run for it's money.
Good on ya re: Blunden Island and Vargas hike. Ought to do Ahous Bay in spring when whales are stopping by on migration to feed. We soloed out west of Blunden to circumnavigate the Cleland Island Sea Bird Sanctuary last time there. Felt like Captain Vancouver, but we were in a cork. White knuckles on the paddles there too! Friends have done the Brooks Peninsula which seems the "Holy Grail" [to me] on the west coast of Vancouver Island. Not for canoes though, or [our] sea kayak. Too risky....
Nwdsmn.
This is exactly what Suzuki needs to see if they will survive.
I also had alignment problems and had 3 alignments done. At 16k miles, I started the worn tire complaint and Suzuki said it was normal. I sent them the bill and they finally denied the claim. There have been numerous tire wear complaints.
The interior plastic is cheap. You can find better quality replacement carpet at walmart.
Battery failed just out of it's warranty time. They wanted it towed to the shop to diagnose it and see if they would cover it. It was cheaper and much easier to replace it myself and not get stuck with a tow bill and the running around. I already had a taste of Suzuki's customer service.
I'm always here! I knew you would be able to type more than me. You had me beat on the 911, we had the 944. Great car for the money but it devalued quicker than the Zuke.
I noticed you always leaning towards the Honda. We have 2 Hondas and now the Acura. Can't go wrong there.
I was trying to look(not very hard) for 2009 GV pricing. I was trying to compare the price of a 2009 GV luxury awd to a leftover 2008 Acura MDX base model. There is only about $6,000 differance and if you are patient, that number will become lower. Yes, that may be alot of money but the long term will be much more rewarding.
Whale sharks? Canoes and kayaks? I don't think so!
Re: tires, no one seems to like your OEM's. Nokian tires wear like iron, (that's my snow tire brand), and I'm sure their other models would too. Ditto Toyo brand tires which are used by some friends on their Vitara. Periodic alignments, even paid for by ones self, are a whole lot cheaper than some other alternatives. My independent alignment shop here offers a one year follow up check, with no additional cost if no adjustments are required. Only $100.00 plus a bit here for the four wheel alignment.
Don't despair before you've found that mechanic...
There's no question bud, yr. MDX is in a class by its self. More power to ya, enjoy that great road warrior! I completely agree with your choice vs. a luxo GV, even with its new six. But there, you've gone and done it again, giving me yet another excuse to cue my old 45 on the turntable, to [non-permissible content removed] yet again about having no base O/R GV available at the other end of the spectrum for we unrepentant hard core Suzuki fans. See what you've done...
Ya, we're wild and woolly here. Have had detached feet washing up in runners on ocean beaches out there earlier this year. Seriously, xostnot can confirm this. Puts ya right off your feed! One solo ocean kayaker went missing off Vancouver Island's "Brooks Peninsula" a year or more ago. Have wondered if he contributed to this unfortunate phenomenon. Crikey!
Nwdsmn.
Now that Suzuki has helped me reconfirm I'm a four cylinder"Vitara" guy through and though, I wouldn't use up a dealers petrol to td an '09 six. So I'll leave more references about 'em to others, (preferably you new owners?). But as good as the six is reported to be so far, its interesting to note one opinion by a tester who didn't seem to think it was overwhelmingly better than the new four. Again that says a whole lot about the four. TWO balance shafts, actually.
But also on the new six, have to say I have no idea why a fully loaded top of the line '09, (leather, etc.), requires inclusion of the low range gears set, vs. just the all wheel drive system. Can't get over my vision of 'em towed proudly, all shined up behind a Winnie, en route down bud's way, or to Florida for the winter. If that's an accurate assessment, is that the potential GV demographic DEMANDING or much less dreaming about wanting a low range gear set? NOPE. So there's your/our answer Suzuki, "wrench" 'em out of luxury liner, and install them into a manual 5 speed four cylinder Vitara. You're welcome again....
I think we both need to get a life. Actually I'm sitting home injured so it won't be long before I'm away from the pc.
The GV was what we needed and worked for us at the time. Couldn't see the daughter driving back and forth from school and using the MDX as the community kid hauler.
Yes, $6,000 buys a couple tanks of gas these days but look at all the upgrades you get with the MDX.
Suzuki couldn't even put a power drivers seat in the LUXURY!
A V6 with 300hp and the same mpg as the measly GV.
Resale value.
I know, I could go on but you know what I'm talking about.
Funny, One review on the MDX wondered why an AWD system didn't come with LOW range. OMG, I thought nrwdsmn was writing the review. .....but it was a short one :P
I have trouble comprehending how Suzuki handled the tire wear problem. Most GV's don't have it. Some people are going through tires like lettuce, while others are getting 60,000km from the oem tires. So surely any company that designs and creates cars could figure out the difference between the ones that do and the ones that don't. Surely. (Thankfully, ours does not have this problem.)
I hasten to add that I also cannot comprehend how only REAR tires wear out when the GV's maintenance schedule includes tire rotation. Tire rotation spreads wear over the whole set. I have never succeeded in getting anyone with the tire wear problem to tell me if they rotated their tires. And even if they did, it doesn't make sense that only the rear tires wore out. Unless it was a tire problem, but then I assume people didn't replace their worn sets with oem tires.
I'm starting to suspect that since Suzuki seems unable to fix this problem most of the time it's reported, that they've chosen to stonewall to conceal a bigger problem. I suspect some of the GV's are built "crooked". Unless I'm mistaken, it should not be impossible to properly align any car. Especially ones that have never been crashed. So are some GV's built more crooked than cars that have been crashed? Too many to afford doing a recall? I have heard there were some buybacks (used GV buyers beware), but no universal correction. What exactly did they do to the back axle setup for '09?
North America is a small market for the GV's. Has anyone heard of this problem outside the US and Canada?
As for the resale value, you know you get squat for a trade-in of any model. With the manufacturers hurting and dumping new cars on the market, I think used vehicle prices have also dropped a lot in the last year or so.
If advertised prices for used cars are any guide, GV's are not particularly bad. Foresters and Escapes seem to be worse relative to original price. CRV's and Rav4's seem to do better, factoring in that they cost more to begin with. But their premium for a quality reputation is only $1000-2000.
Yes, the rat fur carpet is a disgrace. But I hear it's like that in many vehicles now. Saves weight.
I'm about to do another round with the dealer: peeling clearcoat on one rim, transmission interlock recall, and I'll add the squeaking brakes matter. I'll hold off on another round for the remote keyfob reprogramming, and also not bother banging my head against their brick wall regarding the baggy leather in the front seats.
Sorry, I have only one canoe and it's not for sale. Bought in nearly-new condition for 50% of new price, used extensively for 7 years, and retains 80% of what we paid for it. This year we discovered that on top of the GV, as long as the canoe is level to the ground, and we're sitting in the GV, it scrapes under the BC Ferries 7' overheight surcharge of $30. Bonus.
The door speakers are really cheap. I just took out my good ones and replaced the original ones since I'm trading mine in.
I read times to times about tires wear problem, but not often and I'm also a member of a french forum for the NGV where most of them are from France and Belgium, some from Canada. Very very few a them did get this problem, all of them fixed by an aligment. Mine didn't have it, and I can say that I'm pleased, with all my previous cars and 4x4s, I always had winter tires from December to mid April, and a regular set for the rest of the year, I was used to go through a set of winter tires after 4 winters and similarly the regular set was lasting 4 years. It will be my 4th winter with the GV and if the winter set wears as the previous winters I think that I will be able to go through even a 5th winter with them. Regarding the EOM Yokos I will be able to use them for a forth year but I don't think they will do a 5th one.
My first Suk, a 89 Sidekick had that squeaking breaks problem, but not my NGV.
Funny, I like that rat fur carpet, it's my first car having that, and I find that it is a lot easier to clean ( remove sand with vacuum, remove dog's hair and cleaning the salt deposits after winter time).
Here on the east side in Quebec, Suzuki is a fairly popular brand, there is a lot of dealers, there is 15 in an area of 60 km around me ( so it's easy to find good mechanics and good service) but I have nothing to report yet, outside the regular maintenance, it went in for the recall about the auto transmission interlock, took them about 5 minutes to fix. And their resale value here is just as the average of the other brands, not better nor worst. But anyway, if it still holds its own like it did up to now I won't trade it and keep it for a long time, or give it to one of my daughter that will start driving in 4 years.
Despite their dismal reliability record of a few years back, take a look at VW today, particularly at their city Golf and Jetta models. What?, they are two generations back, but offer all that basic [but updated] Germanic goodness, kind of harking back to "old" Beetle" days when they famously and SO SUCCESSFULLY remained unchanged, for how long? Suzuki may well have reached a point now with these '09's where they can afford to do the same, (pending future reliability data). Actually, I don't think any mfgr today can afford NOT to look back at what they once did best, and try to re emulate those past successes by including a similar econo oriented model in their lineup. Honoring ones ROOTS is never a bad idea.
On wants and needs. Obviously I've never meant to appear to be denegrating anyone's decision to buy a high end auto GV with a low range. Hey, that 4cyl low range auto with the in dash six disc player, and, (well, the list is endless...), would be peachy keen if you can get by the, what?, at least a four or five grand additional tarrif to load the boat to get that O/R capable one. But...
But seems [most of us] will be looking for every way possible to save as much long green as we can, every time we open our wallets sometime after the end of this week? In that vein, to me the very latest new "technology", (in the automotive field), ought to also include a healthy dose of paying of homage to that old largely forgotten principal of KISS, (keep it simple, stupid). SIMPLY the best [other] thing Suzuki could do now would be to reintro a 4cyl Vitara "Classic?", equipped like they ALL once were over here. Their BASIC "bread and butter model" for tomorrow's demanding econo wise recreationalist(s)?" Well guess what, that's exactly the well defined niche they once filled, and it was what Suzuki did best... OK they are a good value now, (even loaded to the gunnels), but a de-contented one sans a good amount of the fluff, would be the best value amongst 'em, if one was available here, that is....
I agree, xostnot. Although you would think a compact suv would retain a little more value especially with todays fuel prices. Good thing i don't own a Hummer. :sick:
I looked up the GV on kbb.com and the retail for ours comes in at $15,065. I don't believe anyone pays retail anymore. I look at the private party value and that comes in at $12,175. We got a trade in price of $11,500 and with tax savings, that totals $12,402. I felt that to be very fair since the dealer also gave us $8550 off msrp for the MDX and free delivery 6 hours away.
The dealer in Las Vegas was wondering why I was so mad when their deal came in over $13,000 more than the deal we got in San Diego.
LOL, rat fur! I was wondering who was spinning that cage under the hood.
You are WAY fortunate there. 267 listings for used ones now on AutoTrader's site, vs. 116 or so here. ALL models are well represented, from pristine "inflatable toys", (the old Vitara which would be just fine chiefly for O/R use), to even low mileage '08 GV's with low range, at the same price being asked now for new JA's, (sans low range), on clear out... Here, (note), virtually none on our BC site, are manual 5 speeds. What, they never made any, or all have been recycled? No, they are being kept forever, as up until now for '09 Suzuki gave us, (some of us anyway), no overwhelmingly compelling reason to replace, in particular, our earlier four cylinder models. Applying a little deductive reasoning there, that indicates there is considerable pent up demand for this new four, but in what variety of model configuration(s)...?
On minimalism, re: jettisoning fluff, of course I'm not referring to ALL the excellent new safety features. Rather it's the each and every other sort of non essential item on the manifest of these current "cargo ships of std. equipment accessory excess".
The Chinese are coming, the Chinese are coming! You better believe they will be doing minimalism [yes, to excess] when say a Sidekick clone arrives on our shores here at some point, and at a price point which no Suzuki could [then] touch. But to look forward proactively towards "fending them off", again it's impossible to see how ANY mfgr. could be doing either themselves or their client base a disservice by offering de contented econ models in their lineup. "Ones" which still possess all the core essentials which define [historically] their own unique niche(s) in the marketplace. For a Suzuki SUV, don't think I need to repeat here again what those core virtues [once] were. Sure, still keep the luxo boat derivatives for those so inclined, but again, ASAP, build one honoring your roots too, perhaps like one config'ed as some of us have suggested here.
ps My JA tester had a pronounced burning smell at the rear when we parked it. Didn't but maybe should have mentioned this to the dealer. No such problem with the new four cylinder. The brake shoe issue? No way to say.
Navigate to the Global Suzuki site and click on the GV. State of the art promo effort(s), including "the movie". (No, it's not the Indy Jones adventure treatment). We even get to see a picture of the chief Engineer for these new ones. Nice touch, Suzuki. Cick on the Development box in the GV "special site", and feel the justifiable pride "the family" can have on the occasion of the birth of these new arrivals. Looks like the last of the rear drum brakes go into the three door which is available elsewhere.
Further, (as an aside), the "super car", (Kizashi), will also now evidently offer a 2.4 4 cyl, as well. Seems not surprisingly it will be more mainstream than the concept show car models might have indicated. Recall at first it was to have a 3.8L six. But it's smart to get " a lot of mileage" out of the new 2.4L. It's a fine engine!
No new '09 GV owners out there yet...?
.
"I'm about to do another round with the dealer: peeling clearcoat on one rim, transmission interlock recall, and I'll add the squeaking brakes matter. I'll hold off on another round for the remote keyfob reprogramming, and also not bother banging my head against their brick wall regarding the baggy leather in the front seats."
Had the transmission interlock recall done with no problems.
The dealer's diagnosis of the squealing brakes was that the rotors and drums are out of round and need turning. When I asked him how this could cause the squealing, he offered no explanation. Likely because it's nonsense. On the way home from the dealership, the brakes were squealing. In addition, I have not detected any pulsing or lurching from the brakes. I suppose theoretically they could never be perfect, but I note their perfectionistic approach to the brakes (fixable at my expense) to their tolerance for warped mirrors, baggy seat leather etc. (fixable under warranty).
As for the corroding rim, the service manager said he'd check with Suzuki Canada and call me back.
While I was at the dealership, I looked under a 2008 V6, and did not see any additional heat shielding under the driver's footwell.
They have an '09 4-cyl on the lot. When the '06 came out, it was a month or two until the web site updated from the '05's.
Three days later and no call from the dealership regarding the corroding rim. I called them and left a message to be called back. No call.
So this GV is my first new car. I had the silly impression that a warranty would be honoured. Is it typical for buyers of Suzukis and other makes that you so commonly get a runaround and have your intelligence insulted, when you try to have manufacturing defects rectified? Is this a problem with Suzuki in particular to the extent that I should choose never to buy another vehicle from them, or do all the makers do this?
The new product coming into Suzuki dealerships now and over the next couple of years, should come with concurrent major steps forward in what happens in the dealership's service bays. ONLY then can one be reasonably assured to find one of those "proactive mechanics" all ready in place, who is able to discern and rectify problems EARLY within the warranty period. I've usually always insist the top Suzuki wrench at my dealership, works on one of mine. On problems, of course you've got to have an excellent relationship with a first rate dealership so they can effectively help out to go to bat for you too. My apologies for perhaps stating the obvious here. Prob is for too many Zuke owners, those factors may not be in place. THAT HAS TO CHANGE, and I'm positive Suzuki knows this!
On the rotors, had an excellent heart to heart with a Suzuki service guy some time back who indicated MOST mfgrs use lesser quality metal to make them today. For instance we live at the top of a long hill, and it's not un common for Sube owners (who ride their brakes) to have warped rotor problems, [he said]. As "compensation?" Suzuki has offered two for one rotor deals for the last few years now it seems, with their bi annual service coupon special(s). So it's almost more like they are now considered consumables, (throw away items), vs. paying to have them turned? Note I did have my rotors on the little Zuke wagon replaced under warranty here, just before it expired. Torquing the wheels. Seems you can't fully depend on everyone, (your tire shop, or..) to get 'em done right. I always check post any service involving removal and replacement of the tires, with my own torque wrench once back home. Over tightening them can lead to warped rotors too.
We've all been justifiably putting some pressure on Suzuki here for some time. This service/warranty service matter is another one deserving more of the same. How prevalent are these misses with other mfgrs today?, I don't know...
Nwdsmn.
I'm wondering if Suzuki tracks whether buyers paid full MSRP, and/or whether they do all their servicing at the dealership. This could pop up when the service manager enters our VIN in their computer system, and could translate into how responsive they are to warranty requests. It's easier to understand that, than assume either they randomly treat some customers with indifferenece, or frustrate all their customers. Unless all brands do this, it will cost them eventually. Like the not-so-Big 3.
One thing they do track [of course] is if all service intervals have been faithfully performed. No surprise there during the warranty period, but even post, that data can help one appeal for assistance if there is some sort of extraordinary part failure outside the warranty period. Much to Suzuki's credit, got them to step up to help in such a situation re: one of our Zukes. However, as a freshman to the process during my early years of Sidekick ownership, they stuck me for a BIG one near warranty expiration time, which in hindsight I should have taken to arbitration, (and likely would have WON). But I was so disgusted at the time, that... Tongue in cheek I've sometimes proposed a Halloween horror story feature here, and I've got a few that would drain the blood from Count Dracula.... But no doubt you could dredge up some fright night specials even for Honda's, depending upon dealership deficiencies.
The J.D. Power, Consumer Reports data, etc. should be taken into consideration by all of us before we buy new NOW, as with escalating costs of vehicle ownership, we MUST demand increasing reliability as part of "the deal". That's why in our week to week "what are we going to do here, and when?", back and forth about our next SUV, we have yet to rule out the base '09 Forester vs. the new base 4cyl GV, since neither offers a low range, (if we figure we can make that sacrifice).
What Suzuki needs to do asap, is, (when they feel they are ABLE TO
that is), is to come forward to proclaim any advances which they have actually made or are now making in GV reliability. Even for the '08's. Any such "hard data" based facts would help [you/me/all of us] to be better able to decide what to do next. If they've "got it" and if it's favorable, that could further help to move more of those '08's off the lots?
Reliability is really quite good for the two old(er) Zukes we have here now, post their initial "teething" periods.
I highly doubt any warped rotor or drum would cause the squeal. A squeal or squeak is actually a high pitched vibration. It is cured by chamfering the edges of front pads or rear shoes.
The problem you are having, as I was told, was the rear shoes being too large for the drum.
It is very annoying to have manufacturers fight you when you have a legitimate complaint. Isn't that why they call it a bumper to bumper warranty?
You are a smart man, nrwdsmn! 3 Hondas in our family and I now have much more leisure time on my hands. :shades:
"Seems you can't fully depend on everyone, (your tire shop, or..) to get 'em done right"
So true! And yet so sad. I check everything. Amazing how many loose lugs I've found.
I had tires replaced on the RV and you would think you could just drive it home and not worry especially when you're paying over $2,200. Found the tire pressure to be 20psi off between the 6 tires. Doesn't anyone care anymore?
OK, so I went off topic again. Just agreeing with you.
AND we love the new Acura!
First couple tanks of gas and 19.8mpg city and 20.1 hwy. Not bad for 300hp. Of course, I haven't driven it much so those numbers will drastically change soon.
Recently tested the base '09 Forester. EXCELLENT car like cornering feel thanks to that low center of mass. However: 5 speed manual too "rubbery" lacking the much tough(er) feel of a Suzuki '08 manual. Unfortunate dash treatment, and the grey interior is very dull, but the black is nice. NOTE: the engine is noise(ier) than the new '09 four cylinder GV, but it's know for that, for whatever that's worth? Not broken in, it ran out of breath on a freeway hill in 5th, but the auto four cylinder GV did not on the same hill! Clearly the auto box would be the trannie to go with in this much more car like Sube. Tough(er) though it is for '09, you can feel it wouldn't stand up as well to the same sort of demanding recreational usage which Suzuki's can. The "expedition class" winner?, no surprise, it's advantage Suzuki.
Still need to find a base '09 JA GV [somewhere] to test. Yes, even drove a used auto '02 XL-7. That 2.7 engine does wear well, which also is no surprise to me as all Suzuki engines seem to. Haven't ruled it out as a stop gap move. But may default to the old principal that 4:30pm on the last business day in December,
is THE best time/day of the year to buy a car....
Still no new '09 owners out there?
www.canadiandriver.com/ctc/blog/trucks-suvs/2009-suzuki-grand-vitara.htm
I was browsing cars over the weekend and went to the web page of the local Suzuki dealer to check out the SX4 Sport. There was a drop down menu for the Grvtr. It took me a minute to figure out what the heck that was.