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Since you plan to keep your car a long time and put mega miles on it, getting it serviced easily and finding affordable parts is going to be paramount. At 180,000 miles the purchase price won't matter. What will matter is how much a major service or some kind of overhaul will cost you.
The long term viability of the Charger is still a question as the car hasn't been on the market long. But there are a lot of Dodge dealers to get service from and usually parts for domestic cars are pretty affordable. The brash styling and the plasticky interior may not hold up well, and the thing will suck gas like crazy, but you'll prolly have a lot of fun with the car if that's what you want.
The two Toyota products are much more proven, especially the Lexus. Although I imagine the Avalon will be a little cheaper to run over the years, I'll bet the Lexus is the most reliable. I see plenty of mid-90s ES300's on the road and the ones that have been cared for still look and run good. I've been shopping for used LS400's and it's the same case. Late model Avalon's have had some problems but in general they're good, comfy cars made for long distance driving.
Hyundai's rep is not very good but they are improving. The Sonata is the riskiest of the group IMO but the one with a lot of potential upside if the car is still decent past the 100K mark. Still, parts and service may be an issue; a coworker has an older Sonata and several local repair shops have struggled to repair it due to poor parts availability and a lack of knowledge. But for about $23K new, it might be worth a roll of the dice.
Which leaves us with the Benz. If you can budget for repairs, it might be a great choice. The newer versions do not seem to be as bulletproof as the older models which does not bode well. Nothing is cheap when it comes to Mercedes service parts and shop labor. It's an expensive European car that needs expensive European parts to keep it running like a Mercedes should. In many ways the Benz is better than all the other cars on your list but you will pay for the priviledge of owning it. If that's cool with you, go for it. Might as well get the car you really want, right?
Seeing that Volvo is coming out with an all new S80, I'd scratch this one off the list unless you've just gotta have one.
This one isn't on your list, but given your criteria the best car on the planet is the Lexus LS430 hands down.
You can probably find an 02/03 in your price range.
Find a good independent mechanic - and your maintenance costs will be significantly less. And that's one car that DOES NOT break down.
And at 200K+ miles, it'll still be worth something when you decide to sell it.
The GS430 would be a little smaller, sportier and a tad cheaper - if that's your preference.
This one isn't on your list, but given your criteria the best car on the planet is the Lexus LS430 hands down.
(Later a GS430 is mentioned)
These V8 Lexi... and gas mileage... do not mix.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
The LS is a far superior car to the ES - this coming from a former ES owner.
Of course the gas mileage is lower, but given the poster's original list of cars, one gets the feeling gas mileage isn't the top priority.
It better be for the price difference!
In any case, I presume he listed the Lexus he preferred.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Makes me wonder if Lexus spends extra money so that your [non-permissible content removed] feels like a sliding air hockey puck on their leather.
I'll have to check out the LS430 - never really looked at it mainly due to price.
The last post does bring up a good point - i want a very comfortable seat - one of the reasons the Charger Daytona is on the list - those racing seats are phenomenal!
I agree the toyota Avalon and the ES330 are boring - i think i actually like the Avalon more than the ES330 based on looks alone.
I really appreciate everyone's input - i'm going to try to do a carmax drive them all in one day trip and see which just feels right.
Thanks!
JR
She really wants another E320 (though she was looking at the '01-02s), but I've basically told her not to expect the reliability of the one she has out of those, and even less so for the 'current' style (03-04). I'm trying to steer her toward the Avalon, mostly because she whines about the back seat of her 300, and the new E's aren't much better. I'm fairly certain the Avalon's upkeep costs would be less, it has great safety ratings and gets ~30mpg on the highway. I think she's resistant because she's owned Toyotas before (liked them, and they were trouble-free) and that 'it's not a Mercedes', basically. Meaningless to me, but I guess not to everyone.
Not much back seat room in the GS.
Stick with the LS.
But, in general, these come to mind:
*current (or even last) Toyota Avalon
*'02 E-class (the current ones seem smaller, and apparently are nightmares from a reliability standpoint)
*maybe some big GM thing (Buick, maybe a Cadillac?)
*Lexus LS or possibly GS (though I think not)
*Acura TL (though I think they're probably a bit too sporty--a friend got his 70+ year-old mom into one after her LS400 was wrecked--HE loved it, she doesn't like it too much)
*G35, maybe, but I think the TL comments would apply
She doesn't like the current Chrysler biggies (she called a Charger she rented 'the Bat Cave'), I probably can't get her to even look at anything by Ford, I can't imagine any BMW that would fit in her parameters....what's left?
My wife's grandfather has an avalon now and before that he owned buick after buick after buick.
He probably bought 15 or 20 buicks before that avalon.
My wife's grandfather has an avalon now and before that he owned buick after buick after buick.
He probably bought 15 or 20 buicks before that avalon.
Yeah - Over at the Avalon desk of the Toyota store they have a sign that says "The Buick Stops Here"
My wife who is **NOT** a car person has attended the Lexus and the GM sales events with me in the past year or so. After driving in a variety of Buicks, and Lexus and Toyota models, whe asked me when Toyota bought Buick.
IMO, the Buick engineers are copying a number of the Lexus features. It is NOT a bad idea since the GM interior trim has been so bad. The problem with the approach however, is that it tends to steer a lot of Buick owners towards Toyotas.
Buy a convertible in the spring? You mean, when the weather is getting better and everyone is thinking summertime top-down driving fun? That's the time of year car dealers pray for.
Any suggestions?
Thanks.
Vicki
Back in Jan '04 I was looking for a low budget used car in the 40-60K mile range. I bought a 2001 Saturn SL2 with 53K for $4300 from a local dealer. This car has been great to drive, overall reliable and gets 25mpg in town. Now with 71K still has a trade in value of around $4000.
Back when I did my search I looked at every type of 4dr sedan and found the Saturn to be a good deal since they didn't hold resale well. I figure if I buy new I want the best resale, if used, the worst resale to get the better deal. I think the key is patience, I found my car that had been at the dealer for 4 months so they wanted to move it bad.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Carfax check showed "CARFAX/1OWNER", no issue, and last registered odometer reading of 1 mile. It was first registered as a corporate fleet lease then ~ 7 months later as a personal vehicle. I am having trouble to interpret that reported 1 mile (from Carfax) vs. the actual 35K odometer reading now ... guess this means the van never changed hands since day 1, therefore, no additional odometer readings registered?
Any thoughts/advise are very much appreciated.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Any advice for a confused Mom who wants her daughter safe, but on a limited budget? Thanks
By all accounts, a great car with great reliability. No need to lay out more money when you've got a perfectly good car at home already.
Besides, IMHO, a first car should be as inexpensive as possible because accidents WILL happen.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Although the VW is equipped with more safety equipment, I worry more about my daughter than I did my son because of the VW's small size and light weight. I always felt that the Olds, given its size, would fare pretty well in most types of crashes.
The Olds protected my son well in the one (relatively minor) crash to which he subjected it. Fortunately, my daughter's ride has yet to be tested.
If you are having trouble deciding, just keep the Lexus.
A - it is the smart decision.
B - you can always change your mind later and buy something else.
That's one car that can withstand a lot of abuse.
It's a much better car than the 10 years newer Hyundai.
93K miles is absolutely nothing for that car.
A 12 year old car that's been neglected is a liability, especially if its a luxury brand. If the Lexus starts having problems, repairs will be expensive. I was in the market for a used LS400 or Infiniti Q45 and did plenty of research on repair costs. I bought a '94 Q45 with only 37,000 miles on it and the basic maintenance to get it up to snuff (change all fluids, filters, belts, replace a couple non-working items, etc) ran me over $1000.
Yeah, Lexus has an unrivaled reputation for durability but *any car* that has not been well cared for is a poor choice IMO. Better to start with the newer car, have the fluids and filters changed, have it detailed in and out and drive on.
My 2 cents. Good luck with your decision.
ABS, Air Conditioning, Alloy Wheels, Cassette, Compact Disc, Cruise Control, Driver Air Bag, Dual Front Air Bag, Five Passenger, Front Rear Side Air Bag, Front Side Air Bag, Heated Seats, Leather, Multi Compact Disc, Passenger Air Bag, Power Door Locks, Power Mirrors, Power Steering, Power Windows, Premium Wheels, Remote Entry, Sun Roof, Tilt Wheel, Traction Control
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Of course, this puts me in a dillemma. I loathe econoboxes and tin cans. I want something decent that's no more than four to five years old, preferably certified if I can manage it. I obviously won't be paying anywhere near retail - trade-in is more typical in California, or a bit above it.
The dillemma is of course, that I hate plasticky, jellybean cars. Most new cars are dreadful and feel like a step down from most of the cars that I've owned. I'd really rather get a used luxury model in the 6-8 year old range. Optimally I could get a car that looses less than $1000 a year, or looses esssentially nothing(like my old classic Mercedes did - it actually went UP in value until the engine died on me a couple of weeks ago) I'd love to get another classic car, but the bank is making grumbling noises about it - they want something that they can easily sell if I were to default on it, of course.(which I won't but you know how they are with rules)
I don't want a Buick again. Japanese cars are okay, but mostly they suck as they have no soul(RX-8, IS300, and a few others aside, I loathe how stuff like the Civic drives) I'd prefer stickshift. I'd really like it to be sporty or luxury if possible, or at least have RWD. Oh, and nothing from Chrysler/Dodge other than a Wrangler.
So what are my choices? I can find all sorts of options, ranging from Volvos, a C230K(coupe, stickshift), a Mini(no depreciation to speak of), and so on - but at about $12K.
8K seems to be really hard to accomplish. So far, a Vibe GT and a Wrangler is about as close as I've found. I was wondering if you had any other advice.
Anything that comes to mind violates at least one of those criteria.
What I would do is keep my eyes peeled for the uncommon combination. You never know when a low-mile older luxury car might pop up.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
1997 Honda Accord EX wagon for $7700 with 110k miles
2003 Ford Focus w 29k miles for $6400
1993 Toyota Camry LE with 176k miles for $5000
Any opinions on whether I should go for a later model Ford or a much older model Honda/Toyota? I own a Honda now (leased) so I know them to be reliable as newer cars, I'm just not sure which way to go with regard to older vehicles. This is my first time buying a used car so appreciate all the advice you can offer and all that I've found so far!
1997 Volvo 960/1998 Volvo V90(same car)
Nothing will do a better job for as little money, or be as reliable(and still has a 190HP engine, so it's no slug in traffic).
The Camry would be my third choice. That is a LOT of miles even if the car is well cared for. At that mileage, a lot of the systems are getting close to the end of the life cycle.
The Honda might be a decent deal but again you have to make sure of the condition. There are a LOT of Honda drivers who think the car will last forever and pass on the routine maintenance. If so, the car might be at on the verge of a lot of repairs.
The more miles on the vehicle, the less important the model. What is MORE important is how well the vehicle is maintained. ****** REGARDLESS of your decision, you MUST take the car to a trusted mechanic for a THOROUGH inspection to identify any potential problems.******
As for Volvos, OUCH. High maintenance cost and expensive repairs. Fortunately, I have no more of them in my fleet.
You really want to go with the lowest mileage/nicest car you can find. And get it checked out by a trusted mechanic.
They are nearly bulletproof and simple to maintain, which is why it's on my recommended list right next to a 1993 240 wagon(which is perhaps the best wagon ever built, though getting older than most people would like at this point). Then again, few people complain about an older Porsche, either. Good is good, and cheap to repair is cheap to repair, reguardless of the age. And the 1993 model had standard ABS(though it was an option in 1990, it was standard in 1993). It also looks retro and cool - which is always a plus.
Go test-drive the 960. Open the hood. The 940/960 is a very simple and straightforward design. The replacement models - just worse as time went on, until now, it's about typical Ford quality(the S40 aside - it's really a reworked Mazda)
A used model runs about $6000 max, and is worth every penny.
A nice '97 850 should run you about $5k.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
The Focus seems like a MUCH better buy, by a wide margin.
I also 2nd the opinion on the Protege5. I might even pick that over a volvo just because it would be younger and probably have less miles for similar money.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
I am pretty sure most of them had ABS/traction control/side airbags standard. They handle nice have, good pick up and are probably almost as solid as the volvo in an accident.
They only made it in '02-'03, and finding one for under $10K is difficult, unless it is really miled up..
All that aside, I'd recommend it, if you are willing to pay a little more. Otherwise, get the Focus. A much better deal than the other two..
While the Volvo is a nice wagon, that is no car for someone with a budget.
regards,
kyfdx
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