Used Vehicles Best Values

bretfraz · July 2006

That's an interesting list. All the cars are button-down conservative except for the Charger, which is pretty macho with it's "in your face" styling.

Since you plan to keep your car a long time and put mega miles on it, getting it serviced easily and finding affordable parts is going to be paramount. At 180,000 miles the purchase price won't matter. What will matter is how much a major service or some kind of overhaul will cost you.

The long term viability of the Charger is still a question as the car hasn't been on the market long. But there are a lot of Dodge dealers to get service from and usually parts for domestic cars are pretty affordable. The brash styling and the plasticky interior may not hold up well, and the thing will suck gas like crazy, but you'll prolly have a lot of fun with the car if that's what you want.

The two Toyota products are much more proven, especially the Lexus. Although I imagine the Avalon will be a little cheaper to run over the years, I'll bet the Lexus is the most reliable. I see plenty of mid-90s ES300's on the road and the ones that have been cared for still look and run good. I've been shopping for used LS400's and it's the same case. Late model Avalon's have had some problems but in general they're good, comfy cars made for long distance driving.

Hyundai's rep is not very good but they are improving. The Sonata is the riskiest of the group IMO but the one with a lot of potential upside if the car is still decent past the 100K mark. Still, parts and service may be an issue; a coworker has an older Sonata and several local repair shops have struggled to repair it due to poor parts availability and a lack of knowledge. But for about $23K new, it might be worth a roll of the dice.

Which leaves us with the Benz. If you can budget for repairs, it might be a great choice. The newer versions do not seem to be as bulletproof as the older models which does not bode well. Nothing is cheap when it comes to Mercedes service parts and shop labor. It's an expensive European car that needs expensive European parts to keep it running like a Mercedes should. In many ways the Benz is better than all the other cars on your list but you will pay for the priviledge of owning it. If that's cool with you, go for it. Might as well get the car you really want, right?

bretfraz · July 2006

Forgot about the Volvo, which is easy to do. Prolly worse than the Benz in terms of reliability (not as good) and service costs (about the same). Early S80's had all kinds of problems. At least there are a lot of independent Volvo repair shops around the country. And I say this as a Saab enthusiast.

Seeing that Volvo is coming out with an all new S80, I'd scratch this one off the list unless you've just gotta have one.

zodiac2004 · July 2006

So, if you were going to spend about $30k, and your main concerns are gas mileage, luxurius interior (i drive a LOT!, over 30K miles per year), reliability and longevity, which would you pick?

This one isn't on your list, but given your criteria the best car on the planet is the Lexus LS430 hands down.

You can probably find an 02/03 in your price range.

Find a good independent mechanic - and your maintenance costs will be significantly less. And that's one car that DOES NOT break down.

And at 200K+ miles, it'll still be worth something when you decide to sell it.

The GS430 would be a little smaller, sportier and a tad cheaper - if that's your preference.

asafonov · July 2006

So, if you were going to spend about $30k, and your main concerns are gas mileage, luxurius interior (i drive a LOT!, over 30K miles per year), reliability and longevity, which would you pick?

This one isn't on your list, but given your criteria the best car on the planet is the Lexus LS430 hands down.

(Later a GS430 is mentioned)

These V8 Lexi... and gas mileage... do not mix.

qbrozen · July 2006

He's got Lexus covered in his list by the ES330. Certainly trumps the 430s in mileage.

zodiac2004 · July 2006

He's got Lexus covered in his list by the ES330. Certainly trumps the 430s in mileage

The LS is a far superior car to the ES - this coming from a former ES owner.

Of course the gas mileage is lower, but given the poster's original list of cars, one gets the feeling gas mileage isn't the top priority.

qbrozen · July 2006

The LS is a far superior car to the ES

It better be for the price difference!

In any case, I presume he listed the Lexus he preferred.

british_rover · July 2006

Well they are both boring as hell and the seats in each are uncomfortable.

Makes me wonder if Lexus spends extra money so that your [non-permissible content removed] feels like a sliding air hockey puck on their leather.

jrosales · July 2006

Thanks everyone for your input. The Hyundai is on there for the practical side - cheap car, supposedly great reliability

I'll have to check out the LS430 - never really looked at it mainly due to price.

The last post does bring up a good point - i want a very comfortable seat - one of the reasons the Charger Daytona is on the list - those racing seats are phenomenal!

I agree the toyota Avalon and the ES330 are boring - i think i actually like the Avalon more than the ES330 based on looks alone.

I really appreciate everyone's input - i'm going to try to do a carmax drive them all in one day trip and see which just feels right.

Thanks!
JR

ghulet · August 2006

My mom is looking for the same thing, basically (her priorities, in no particular order): back seat room, safety, reliability/longevity and fuel economy. She also wants a $25-30k sedan to replace her '88(!) 300E. She's been more or less bugging me to find her something for a couple years, but continues to put $ into the old Merc anyway. :confuse:

She really wants another E320 (though she was looking at the '01-02s), but I've basically told her not to expect the reliability of the one she has out of those, and even less so for the 'current' style (03-04). I'm trying to steer her toward the Avalon, mostly because she whines about the back seat of her 300, and the new E's aren't much better. I'm fairly certain the Avalon's upkeep costs would be less, it has great safety ratings and gets ~30mpg on the highway. I think she's resistant because she's owned Toyotas before (liked them, and they were trouble-free) and that 'it's not a Mercedes', basically. Meaningless to me, but I guess not to everyone.

corvette · August 2006

Then, steer her towards a Lexus. Plenty of used LS-series under $30k. It may not be a Mercedes, but it is built like a Mercedes used to be... If she wants more road feel, try a GS.

zodiac2004 · August 2006

Then, steer her towards a Lexus. Plenty of used LS-series under $30k. It may not be a Mercedes, but it is built like a Mercedes used to be... If she wants more road feel, try a GS

Not much back seat room in the GS.
Stick with the LS.

ghulet · August 2006

...my mom's weird; she always complains about the 'lack of power' in her 300E (and has since it was new, never mind that it was about the fastest sedan around at the time; she didn't get the starting-in-second-gear thing), but doesn't want a V8, basically for the gas mileage. I've been in Lexus LS, I don't think there's a whole lot more room in back than in an E-class. The last car Mom raved about was her friend's '96 LeSabre, because of the room and the 'power' (it's the torque, Mom!)...see what I'm dealing with? I'm going to have to get down to see her, drag her out to dealers and actually get her to DRIVE a few models; I don't think she has the foggiest notion any more about what she wants, what she likes, or even what's out there, she hasn't bought a car in fifteen years.

But, in general, these come to mind:

*current (or even last) Toyota Avalon
*'02 E-class (the current ones seem smaller, and apparently are nightmares from a reliability standpoint)
*maybe some big GM thing (Buick, maybe a Cadillac?)
*Lexus LS or possibly GS (though I think not)
*Acura TL (though I think they're probably a bit too sporty--a friend got his 70+ year-old mom into one after her LS400 was wrecked--HE loved it, she doesn't like it too much)
*G35, maybe, but I think the TL comments would apply

She doesn't like the current Chrysler biggies (she called a Charger she rented 'the Bat Cave'), I probably can't get her to even look at anything by Ford, I can't imagine any BMW that would fit in her parameters....what's left?

michaellno · August 2006

Well, if she liked her friends LeSabre, I'd recommend taking her to the Buick dealer and have her look at the LaCross and Lucerne. With the V6 she might like the power, and the comfort level ought to be to her liking as well.

lemmer · August 2006

My wife, who loved her manual transmission BMW, complained that my G35 was way too loud for a luxury car. You can really hear the engine and exhaust. I loved it, but I doubt your Mom will. I'd get her an Avalon. It is the best Buick ever made (and I mean that in a good way).

british_rover · August 2006

Yup whenever I have met a Avalon driver they have almost always owned buicks in the past and typically several buicks.

My wife's grandfather has an avalon now and before that he owned buick after buick after buick.

He probably bought 15 or 20 buicks before that avalon.

jasmith52 · August 2006

Yup whenever I have met a Avalon driver they have almost always owned buicks in the past and typically several buicks.

My wife's grandfather has an avalon now and before that he owned buick after buick after buick.

He probably bought 15 or 20 buicks before that avalon.

Yeah - Over at the Avalon desk of the Toyota store they have a sign that says "The Buick Stops Here"

jlawrence01 · August 2006

Over at the Avalon desk of the Toyota store they have a sign that says "The Buick Stops Here"

My wife who is **NOT** a car person has attended the Lexus and the GM sales events with me in the past year or so. After driving in a variety of Buicks, and Lexus and Toyota models, whe asked me when Toyota bought Buick.

IMO, the Buick engineers are copying a number of the Lexus features. It is NOT a bad idea since the GM interior trim has been so bad. The problem with the approach however, is that it tends to steer a lot of Buick owners towards Toyotas.

ghulet · August 2006

...if mom wants something big (check), safe (check), quick (check), roomy (check), that gets reasonable gas mileage (check) and likes her friend's Buick, I figure the Avalon is a shoo-in. She's the right demographic, too (sorry, Mom!).

scoop4 · August 2006

I have been considering purchasing a used 2003 Lexus SC430. Does anyone have any thoughts on whether it is makes sense to wait until spring rather than purchase one now assuming that the price may be substantially lower due to depreciation. Also I have found an 03 with 55K miles for $35K from an independent car dealership or a certified pre-owned 03 with 17K miles with for $46k. I am having the one with 55K checked out by a Lexus dealer. Which one would be the best buy longterm?

bretfraz · August 2006

Conventional car buying wisdom says buying a convertible in the wintertime nets the best deals. The SC430 is a nice car but not the hottest seller and I'd imagine trying to move one with winter coming on would be especially tough. Meaning, you can probably negotiate a great deal if you can wait 60 days.

Buy a convertible in the spring? You mean, when the weather is getting better and everyone is thinking summertime top-down driving fun? That's the time of year car dealers pray for.

british_rover · August 2006

I also think that the SC430 is going to be redesigned fairly soon. I know the design is getting a little long in the tooth so I would expect lexus to redesign it soon.

vickib2 · August 2006

I'm trying to help my son find a good used car, with reasonable mileage, costing no more than $9000, off the lot. I was thinking an older Altima might fit criteria, but apparently not. Surely something can be had for $9000!!

Any suggestions?
Thanks.
Vicki

krony · August 2006

Not sure what you consider "reasonable mileage". Easiest might be to go to the "advanced search" on cars.com and plug in your preferred year, price, mileage and see what comes up. $9000 should get you a lot of car.

Back in Jan '04 I was looking for a low budget used car in the 40-60K mile range. I bought a 2001 Saturn SL2 with 53K for $4300 from a local dealer. This car has been great to drive, overall reliable and gets 25mpg in town. Now with 71K still has a trade in value of around $4000.

Back when I did my search I looked at every type of 4dr sedan and found the Saturn to be a good deal since they didn't hold resale well. I figure if I buy new I want the best resale, if used, the worst resale to get the better deal. I think the key is patience, I found my car that had been at the dealer for 4 months so they wanted to move it bad.

qbrozen · August 2006

You most definitely should be able to find a nice altima for that kinda money. I've seen '04s with less than 20k miles for $12k, so a year or 2 older with 40-60k miles should EASILY fall under your price cap.

yangpa · September 2006

Trying to find a good used Sienna and came across this one ... it has DVD, running board, two front power seats, ~ 35K miles, with a Kelly retail value $26,500

Carfax check showed "CARFAX/1OWNER", no issue, and last registered odometer reading of 1 mile. It was first registered as a corporate fleet lease then ~ 7 months later as a personal vehicle. I am having trouble to interpret that reported 1 mile (from Carfax) vs. the actual 35K odometer reading now ... guess this means the van never changed hands since day 1, therefore, no additional odometer readings registered?

Any thoughts/advise are very much appreciated.

jipster · September 2006

I wouldn't pay that much for a van 3 years old. Doesn't the bumper to bumper warranty go to 36k...and they got rid of it at 35? Curious. I'd have a mechanic check it out, would feel better if I had some maintenance records. Have the Toyota dealership run the vin through their computer to see about repairs/record.

qbrozen · September 2006

If Kelly retail is $26,500, then most likely a fair price is closer to $24k.

palsaus · September 2006

I could sure use some advice. My 16 year old daughter is ready for a car. We originally planned to hand down my husband's 1996 LS400 Lexus w 93,000 miles. He hasn't taken the best car of it (infrequent oil changes)and there are some things that need fixing (gas gauge, loose seat belts and trim, needs tires), but it has been a very dependable car. My Mother recently passed away, and the family is willing to sell me her 2004 Hyundai Sonata with 12,000 miles for $10,000. It has front and side airbags, and I know she has taken good care of it. The Lexus only has front airbags. The Lexus is only worth about 4-5K for resale, so we would have to pony up an additional 5K. I am just wondering in the long run it would be worth it. They both get around the same gas mileage, but the Lexus requires premium gas. The Sonata's 60,000/5year warranty transfers so we would be covered another 2-3 years (I don't know when she bought it).

Any advice for a confused Mom who wants her daughter safe, but on a limited budget? Thanks

qbrozen · September 2006

Lexus

By all accounts, a great car with great reliability. No need to lay out more money when you've got a perfectly good car at home already.

Besides, IMHO, a first car should be as inexpensive as possible because accidents WILL happen.

cccompson · September 2006

When my son got his license (at age 17 in 2002) I gave him my 1992 Olds 98, a fullsize car with a driver's only airbag. Since the age of 9 my daughter wanted a New Beetle (but only in Cyber Green). I bought a nice low mileage '99 off ebay last year just before her 16th birthday. It is equipped with side air bags.

Although the VW is equipped with more safety equipment, I worry more about my daughter than I did my son because of the VW's small size and light weight. I always felt that the Olds, given its size, would fare pretty well in most types of crashes.

The Olds protected my son well in the one (relatively minor) crash to which he subjected it. Fortunately, my daughter's ride has yet to be tested.

palsaus · September 2006

Thanks for your replies. I realized that the Lexus is actually a 1994, rather than a 1996. My daughter would have loved a new beetle. In my research today, I actually read that the beetles are really safe cars. VW's in general did pretty well. I also read that size doesn't always equate with safety. I don't know what I am having such a hard time deciding what to do. Any other opinions?

lemmer · September 2006

A '94 Lexus almost certainly won't likely give you more trouble than an '99 New Beetle. VWs are really safe cars, but I don't know that the safety advantage would be significant over the Lexus.

If you are having trouble deciding, just keep the Lexus.
A - it is the smart decision.
B - you can always change your mind later and buy something else.

zodiac2004 · September 2006

Cleanup the Lexus and give it to her.
That's one car that can withstand a lot of abuse.
It's a much better car than the 10 years newer Hyundai.
93K miles is absolutely nothing for that car.

metro123 · September 2006

While I agree that a Lexus with 93K is not much, an older luxury car can be a money pit(trust me, I know). Wait until you have to have the timing belt changed or the A/C compressor replaced. On an Older Lexus be prepared to pay $$$. Will a teenager be able to pay for these repairs? I would look at Civic, Accord, Corolla, Focus, Beetle ect...

audia8q · September 2006

Here is something that has never happened to us before....we took a car in trade that was flagged on carfax as a lemon law buyback. It was one of the brands we sell so I went and pulled the entire service history on the car....The car was locally owned by 2 owners. The car had a total of 3 warranty claims for 3 different items and it was never a lemon law buyback...We've have had alot of mileage issues with carfax which usually stems from a slacker at motor vehicle or emissions inspections but we've never had huge mistake like a phoney lemon law claim.

bretfraz · September 2006

Based on what has been posted, I'd lean towards the Hyundai. It's a newer car with a valid warranty and low mileage. Spend $200 to go over it just to make sure everything's OK and you'll be good to go.

A 12 year old car that's been neglected is a liability, especially if its a luxury brand. If the Lexus starts having problems, repairs will be expensive. I was in the market for a used LS400 or Infiniti Q45 and did plenty of research on repair costs. I bought a '94 Q45 with only 37,000 miles on it and the basic maintenance to get it up to snuff (change all fluids, filters, belts, replace a couple non-working items, etc) ran me over $1000.

Yeah, Lexus has an unrivaled reputation for durability but *any car* that has not been well cared for is a poor choice IMO. Better to start with the newer car, have the fluids and filters changed, have it detailed in and out and drive on.

My 2 cents. Good luck with your decision.

humairaq_06 · September 2006

Kindly advice.

ABS, Air Conditioning, Alloy Wheels, Cassette, Compact Disc, Cruise Control, Driver Air Bag, Dual Front Air Bag, Five Passenger, Front Rear Side Air Bag, Front Side Air Bag, Heated Seats, Leather, Multi Compact Disc, Passenger Air Bag, Power Door Locks, Power Mirrors, Power Steering, Power Windows, Premium Wheels, Remote Entry, Sun Roof, Tilt Wheel, Traction Control

Kirstie_H · September 2006

Please visit Real-World Trade-In Values and post information requested (see red lettering above the "post a message" box).

plekto · October 2006

Okay, I got a loan approved via my bank for $8000. $400 a month for ~2 years is all I can comfortably afford to deal with for now(don't want a 4 year loan).

Of course, this puts me in a dillemma. I loathe econoboxes and tin cans. I want something decent that's no more than four to five years old, preferably certified if I can manage it. I obviously won't be paying anywhere near retail - trade-in is more typical in California, or a bit above it.

The dillemma is of course, that I hate plasticky, jellybean cars. Most new cars are dreadful and feel like a step down from most of the cars that I've owned. I'd really rather get a used luxury model in the 6-8 year old range. Optimally I could get a car that looses less than $1000 a year, or looses esssentially nothing(like my old classic Mercedes did - it actually went UP in value until the engine died on me a couple of weeks ago) I'd love to get another classic car, but the bank is making grumbling noises about it - they want something that they can easily sell if I were to default on it, of course.(which I won't but you know how they are with rules)

I don't want a Buick again. Japanese cars are okay, but mostly they suck as they have no soul(RX-8, IS300, and a few others aside, I loathe how stuff like the Civic drives) I'd prefer stickshift. I'd really like it to be sporty or luxury if possible, or at least have RWD. Oh, and nothing from Chrysler/Dodge other than a Wrangler.

So what are my choices? I can find all sorts of options, ranging from Volvos, a C230K(coupe, stickshift), a Mini(no depreciation to speak of), and so on - but at about $12K.

8K seems to be really hard to accomplish. So far, a Vibe GT and a Wrangler is about as close as I've found. I was wondering if you had any other advice.

qbrozen · October 2006

that is tough. Reliable, slow depreciation, $8k or less, and NOT an econobox is an equation I'm just not familiar with.

Anything that comes to mind violates at least one of those criteria.

What I would do is keep my eyes peeled for the uncommon combination. You never know when a low-mile older luxury car might pop up.

livefree · October 2006

I've been reading the boards and have found the information very informative...but still need to ask my own question for clarification. I'm looking to purchase a wagon for transporting myself and my young children to and from school, shopping, etc. all within the city, so am looking for something that will have reasonable city mileage (24 or better). I have been looking in local listings, and have seen the following examples of cars for sale:
1997 Honda Accord EX wagon for $7700 with 110k miles
2003 Ford Focus w 29k miles for $6400
1993 Toyota Camry LE with 176k miles for $5000

Any opinions on whether I should go for a later model Ford or a much older model Honda/Toyota? I own a Honda now (leased) so I know them to be reliable as newer cars, I'm just not sure which way to go with regard to older vehicles. This is my first time buying a used car so appreciate all the advice you can offer and all that I've found so far!

plekto · October 2006

That one's a cinch.

1997 Volvo 960/1998 Volvo V90(same car)
Nothing will do a better job for as little money, or be as reliable(and still has a 190HP engine, so it's no slug in traffic).

jlawrence01 · October 2006

Personally, I would take the Ford Focus. It is low mileage, very reasonably priced and fairly reliable. It should get about 28 miles per gallon and should last about 150k IF you keep up with the maintenance. Also, I think that you should be able to talk down the price a bit

The Camry would be my third choice. That is a LOT of miles even if the car is well cared for. At that mileage, a lot of the systems are getting close to the end of the life cycle.

The Honda might be a decent deal but again you have to make sure of the condition. There are a LOT of Honda drivers who think the car will last forever and pass on the routine maintenance. If so, the car might be at on the verge of a lot of repairs.

The more miles on the vehicle, the less important the model. What is MORE important is how well the vehicle is maintained. ****** REGARDLESS of your decision, you MUST take the car to a trusted mechanic for a THOROUGH inspection to identify any potential problems.******

As for Volvos, OUCH. High maintenance cost and expensive repairs. Fortunately, I have no more of them in my fleet.

erics6 · October 2006

Yes. Volvo's are nice cars but spendy to maintain. I'd add Subaru to the mix. You might also consider the Mazda Protege 5 wagon.

You really want to go with the lowest mileage/nicest car you can find. And get it checked out by a trusted mechanic.

plekto · October 2006

Note that I'm talking about the very last of the old design Volvos before they were bought out. The last of the big 700/900 series "Swedish Bricks".

They are nearly bulletproof and simple to maintain, which is why it's on my recommended list right next to a 1993 240 wagon(which is perhaps the best wagon ever built, though getting older than most people would like at this point). Then again, few people complain about an older Porsche, either.

Good is good, and cheap to repair is cheap to repair, reguardless of the age. And the 1993 model had standard ABS(though it was an option in 1990, it was standard in 1993). It also looks retro and cool - which is always a plus.

Go test-drive the 960. Open the hood. The 940/960 is a very simple and straightforward design. The replacement models - just worse as time went on, until now, it's about typical Ford quality(the S40 aside - it's really a reworked Mazda)

A used model runs about $6000 max, and is worth every penny.

qbrozen · October 2006

I'd opt for a 850 wagon or a '98 V70, personally.

A nice '97 850 should run you about $5k.

qbrozen · October 2006

Based on the value of the volvos pletko and i are referring to, there is no way I'd pay $7700 for a 10-year-old Accord with over 100k miles. That's way too much, IMHO.

The Focus seems like a MUCH better buy, by a wide margin.

I also 2nd the opinion on the Protege5. I might even pick that over a volvo just because it would be younger and probably have less miles for similar money.

british_rover · October 2006

I would go with the protege5 as well. As long as you don't need the extra room the Volvos offer then I think the mazda is the better deal.

I am pretty sure most of them had ABS/traction control/side airbags standard. They handle nice have, good pick up and are probably almost as solid as the volvo in an accident.

kyfdx · October 2006

The only problem with the P5 is limited availability, and more money than these options..

They only made it in '02-'03, and finding one for under $10K is difficult, unless it is really miled up..

All that aside, I'd recommend it, if you are willing to pay a little more. Otherwise, get the Focus. A much better deal than the other two..

While the Volvo is a nice wagon, that is no car for someone with a budget.

regards,
kyfdx

Used Vehicles Best Values

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles