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Pontiac GTO v. Subaru STi
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Comments
They already target muscle cars.
-juice
OK, that made me laugh out loud.
It's basically a Grand Prix "GT."
Nothing could be further from the truth. GP is FWD, and it's not even the same platform at all. They really have nothing in common but the badge.
-juice
Both cars are great. I found the Sti uncomfortable- I just couldn't see myself driving for long stretches. Also, the GTO had a much nicer interior. Lastily, gto is cheaper to insure.Other than that, yeah, the Sti is a great car.If I was 20 years younger, it probably would have been in my garage,instead of the gto. I thought about the performance of the sti and frankly, I don't think that most of my driving would give the car it's due. My idea of fun in an sti would be to throw some studded tires on it and go for a nice ride around Lake Tahoe after a good snowfall, but then that's me!
To me, a sports car is any vehicle that has a fully independent suspension, excellent braking and a good power to weight ratio.It doesn't matter how many doors it has.
Funny thing- I am shopping for an awd vehicle for my wife. She wants a crv, this thread reminded me of how nice it would be to have an Sti next to a GTO in my garage. Won't happen, but it is nice to dream...
Put her in a Forester XT, it's a de-tuned version of the same engine in the STI. A lot of fun in a practical package.
In C&D's 50th Anniversary Edition issue, they listed the Forester XT as quicker than a Lamborghini Countache 5000S.
Also try a RAV4 V6 or a Saturn Vue Redline. If she's set on a Honda product, wait for the Acura RD-X, it should be more fun.
-juice
We did drive the Vue. Great motor, but comparably equipped, it is $1,000 more than the crv and has way crappier resale and repair history. Plus the CRV has stability control and more room. Don't think me to down on GM (I own two of their vehicles) but I was disappointed in the features and quality of the vue. The quality of the Vue, compared to the sube I drove a few months ago was... it wasn't even close.
The new Rav4? The v6 version isn't here yet, but on paper it looks incredible! However, the dealers here are asking (and probably getting) above list for the four bangers.
The nearest acura dealer is 200 miles away, so that kind of rules that out (actually, our local Honda dealer could do warranty work on it for that reason, but it is a bit of a hassle).
Oh well, let her choose, you don't want the burden of picking something for her.
-juice
I think you might be missing the point here...The current GTO wasn't developed as a GTO, there was no rush to build a GTO at all. It was developed and is built in Australia as a Monaro - a name plate that dates back to the 60's, and was an Australian semi-equivalent to the Camaros and Firebirds in the US at that time. GM decided to import a limited number of them to the US, and slapped a GTO name on it. Was that a bad call? Apparently, since so many people seem offended by it. Personally, I couldn't care less what they call it - it's an excellent car, fast and comfortable, handles well if not with razor sharp reflexes, great build quality. Styling is totally subjective - I like it. STi owners probably like the styling of that car, which goes to show that beauty is definitely in the eye of the beholder!
I think the comparisons are valid, even if there is a 2x differential in number of doors, etc. Approx $30k fast cars both - certainly likely to be cross shopped by some folks. I know it crossed my mind.
Floor it and the car would twist from tq. However, stock, most of those muscle cars were unable to do better than a 15 sec 1/4. Crude suspensions and tires were to blame.
Time has made made some think these cars were better than they are. If the new GTO were truly like the old, it would have a poor handling solid axle rear, rough ride, bad brakes and maybe even some "Judge" stickers on it. Sadly, if it had all those, it'll probably be more popular!
I got a few negative comments from the "purists" when I got my '96 Impala ("they should have kept it to two doors!") I remember telling one knob that if they did that, the car would require extra tooling and an extra assembly line which would increase the car by $1,000s. The answer was "So what? They should have made it with two doors!"
Flash back to 2006- any GTO can waste a '60's car. Heck, even the Sti can do it, despite having two extra doors!
I have the 2006 with the bigger brakes and styling enhancements. Not sure if the comparison was with a 2005.
Anyway, I think like other folks say; it comes down to personal preference. The 2006 gto is just awesome (from my view). I've driven the sti and yes it's fun. But, to me it looks like a box with an ironing board on the back. It also is not very comfortable. GTO just hauls butt with that L2 corvette motor. They got the sound just right too; throaty and powerful but not too loud for everyday driving.
It is very comfortable to drive, handles great in turns and I note the difference with the independent suspension over bumpy roads.
Regarding the subdued styling...I like it. It looks sharp but not gaudy or tacky; a sleeper, not a cop-magnet.
-juice
This was reported by autoweek on 3/2/06.
http://www.gtoforum.com/showthread.php?t=6730
one thing i miss in my goat compared to my previous 4 Z28s is the near-30 mpg highway mileage. goat cannot do that, 24 mpg is the max and 21 mpg more typical.
i understand the sti can at least do 25 mpg highway - can it do 28+ mpg like the standard-trans fourth-gen f-body cars could do at 75 mph or so?
also do some STI drivers hate the STI rear spoiler as much as some of us goat drivers hate/remove our goats spoilers?
As for manliness, is this not manly? :confuse:
-juice
Now, make it a 2-door coupe, add some more scoops in the area just in front of the rear wheels, maybe some winglets in the front valence, another scoop on the roof, a bi-winglet over the rear window, a taller hood scoop, and maybe 2-3 more antennae scattered around.......THEN it'd be manly!!!
Oh, and lots more vinyl graphics. And paint-it day glo lime green. And maybe an underbody light kit. And the fenders need to stick out more. And it needs quad 18" subwoofers that go 'whoompa whoompa whoompa' to drown out the noise of that thing under the hood..... :P
Even the sponsor graphics. :P
-juice
Personally, that STi is (in my eyes) the definition of 'boy racer'.
If one strips all the extraneous geegaws off of a car (any car), and the car has no style in it's basic form, then adding all that junk doesn't make the car any better.
I suppose one could cram a dozen scoops/spoilers/wings/etc. on a GTO as well. Would it be a better car for it?
They added the hood scoops and for the most part people felt it was an improvement. Not enough, but better.
The STI is a tribute to the WRC car, the people that want to buy it understand that. A few actually brought their spoilers to Miller Subaru for Petter Solberg to sign when the '06 model debuted.
Like I mentioned above, the STI Limited arrives this fall, significantly toned down for folks like you that want a cleaner look.
And while the GTO has 2 doors, it's still more of a 2 door sedan, not exactly adding the sleekness one expects when they sacrifice the 2 extra doors.
-juice
Yes. The point (I think I had one) is that not everyone thinks that a plethera of spoilers (functional or otherwise) is desirable.
"Like I mentioned above, the STI Limited arrives this fall, significantly toned down for folks like you that want a cleaner look."
I like a cleaner look. But I also want a car to have style simply from the basic lines of the car; not tacked on. Personally, the style of the GTO isn't my cup of tea either.
I guess your point was to frustrate me. It worked.
-juice
Welllllll, not entirely.... :P
I just like to check up on what gets posted in this train-wreck of a topic occasionally....some of the stuff is VERY humorous.
Notice that instead of having a raised spoiler it's got the more apealing molded one. Also the extended fenders make it look a lot more muscular. This is what the GTO should look like.
Here is Edmunds' coverage, though the photo doesn't show any part of the changes. :confuse:
-juice
Get a life you old people who are trying to seperate yourselves from the younger generation so you can justify your poor choice in automobiles... :lemon:
Marc
it won't be long before someone is casting a stone at you for being old and trying whatever to separate yourself from those who are younger. i'm not saying the STI isn't cool or whatever, just that it is so boy-racerish that it is especially embarassing for us old bald guys to drive.
that picture a couple posts ago, the one with the subdued looking wingless STI, that's MUCH BETTER for us geezers who prefer "sleeper" vehicles. on the other hand, the GTO gets an absurd amount of attention on the road despite my attempts to sleeper-ize it by replacing 3 of the GTO badges/rear-bumper-cover with the Holden parts (side marker lights, flat black bottom rear bumper cover). removing the rear wing is probably my next & final sleeperization attempt, once i can arrange that with the local body shop. i'll probably keep the vented hood even though it does annoy me.
Bob
Bob
A bit dull, but it would be pretty roomy. I'm sure they'd only consider making one off the next generation GTO.
Closest thing to that now is the Dodge Magnum SRT-8.
-juice
And up here, that GTO (or replace any other high HP rear wheel drive - was stongly considering the CTS-V)will get smoked every day of rain or snow by an sti. On dry days it is up to the drivers.
By the way, do I need to post the Top Gear lap times again that have the STI and the GTO neck and neck? The GTO handles quite well in most situations. Sure it would get smoked on a rally track by an STI, but I can live with that for the much smoother ride it provides.
Owen
Bob
do you run snow tires on your STI during winter? separate rims for those? what kind/size wheels & tires for snows?
i used to drive Z28s during winter with snowtires and did enjoy out-accelerating the AWDs/4WDs away from snowy stoplights.
ohh and also subaru as a company has a future, the same can not be said for GM
ohh and also GM BOUGHT 20% OF FHI (Fuji Heavy Industries) who make Subaru's in 1999, I don't know how you figure GM has no future. I'm betting your one of the guys that disrespects V8's haha silly boy.