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Lexus ES 350

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Comments

  • bobob20032000bobob20032000 Member Posts: 69
    How would motortrend know, they are pretty accurate but they are just assuming. i believe toyota will give the es a 3.5 engine with its more conservative styling. Toyota is now on the move to attract younger buyers with more powerful engines and better styling.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    the ES350 will get somewhere in the area of 270-275 horsepower.

    Afterall, it can't be overshadowed by the less expensive Avalon, Camry V6, and RAV4.

    The Avalon isn't a problem, but the Camry V6 could be. An ES has to be putting out more power than a Camry so people can justify paying more for the Lexus edition :blush:
  • 307web307web Member Posts: 1,033
    I'm sure it will have more HP than a Camry V6 as usual. The question is whether it will be significantly more or a trivial amount just to be able to say it has more power.
  • cammer2cammer2 Member Posts: 38
    Any thoughts about the transmission choice?

    Every new Lexus has debuted using the new 6-speed. Wouldn't that also be a way to differentiate it from the Camry V-6 ?
  • motownusamotownusa Member Posts: 836
    Both the new Camry ( V6 versions ) and the ES will most likely get 6 speed automatic transmission. However, I have read in more than one article that the new Camry will get a 3.3L engine whereas the ES will most likely get the 3.5L. The new 3.3L engine is not based on the bore and stroked version of the old 3.0L engine that has been around since the early 90s but a de stroked version of the new 3.5L engine
  • et01et01 Member Posts: 5
    Will the 2007 ES be a 'real' Lexus in that it will not share the same platform with the 2007 Camry? Will there there enough difference between the 07 ES and 07 Camry so people can no longer say it is just another dressed up Camry?
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    will be the last Lexus car or something to share parts with a Toyota.

    That didn't mean that Lexus TRUCKS won't still share parts with Toyotas.

    Which means a Highlander based next generation RX is very, very possible.
  • mwolpertmwolpert Member Posts: 1
    Any info on when there will be a styling change to the ES?

    I'm about to buy a 2006 and would not be happy to have Lexus into a new style in 2007.

    Thanks
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    There will be a new ES around summer 2006, more than likely. Completely redesigned, with the 3.5L V6 268 horse engine more than likely the powerplant. 2006 is a lame-duck year.

    ~alpha
  • 307web307web Member Posts: 1,033
    If you pay cheaply enough or get a really good lease deal it will be worth getting a 2005 or 2006 since they won't have discounting on the new model for some time since there is always heavy interest and pent up demand from people waiting for the new model to come out.
    You could get a lease a 2006 for 3 years then at the lease end go into a 2008-2009 ES at a heavy discount and save on both cars rather than paying the premium to get a 2007 while it is the new, hot model.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    The Black Diamond Edition looks nice, and since they're only making 3,000ish copies of it, that'd be the one to buy if you're going to get a 2006 on closeout.

    Have you thought about leasing a ES330 on a 3 year lease, and then buy a 2008-2009 model at invoice? You'll be driving the latest design still for 3-4 years.
  • bluesman3bluesman3 Member Posts: 202
    The ES release will be somewhere closer to March than summer time.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Even better!

    ~alpha
  • bluesman3bluesman3 Member Posts: 202
    Sorry to debunk Edmunds but here's a REAL spy shot of the new ES... Thanks to Vince.

    http://img433.imageshack.us/img433/589/newescovered4pn.jpg

    What's up on the Future section of Edmunds is a Camry listed as a Lexus ES.
  • 1violinist1violinist Member Posts: 338
    Is this the real deal? I hope so! :-)

    2007 Lexus ES?
  • 307web307web Member Posts: 1,033
    Of course not. It's a computer rendering, not a photo.
  • 1violinist1violinist Member Posts: 338
    Ya, but is it a computer rendering of the actual model?
  • mikegillermikegiller Member Posts: 602
    It looks like a hack-job created by a 4 year old with a crayon! Who in their right mind would even try to pass that off as a real possibility?
  • maxellmanmaxellman Member Posts: 43
    and therefore no show in Tokyo.
    The only show they will release the ES and Camry will be Detroit show. And they are still the same car. 268Hp Avalon engine, also on Rav 4, Camry, ES, RX, and later on Sienna and highlander.

    Camry I-4 Hybrid should be earlier than summer, since it should be made in Japan first and imported.
  • motownusamotownusa Member Posts: 836
    I don't think that is true anymore. Toyota is introducing the LEXUS brand in Japan starting this year. I am sure the WINDOM will be renamed the Lexus ES.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    In Hong Kong, they sell the Toyota Windom alongside the Lexus ES330.

    So badge kits are popular. You get the slanted L, and the ES330 badge.

    They are cosmetically exact, except for the badges and the logo on the steering wheel.

    So the only way to tell is to peek inside at the steering wheel, or get a glance at the license plate if they got the plates from the only Lexus dealer in Hong Kong- Crown Motor Cars. The Toyota ones will say Toyota, Crown Motors, and the Lexus ones will say Lexus, Crown Motors.

    They also sell a Toyota Harrier and a Lexus RX300 (they used the old 3.0L for some reason) side by side in the same dealership, both cosmetically identical. The badge kits are also popular.

    So in Japan they might keep the Windom, for all we know.
  • bluesman3bluesman3 Member Posts: 202
    "Is this the real deal? I hope so!"

    It's the ES, just not exactly as it will debut. The profile and shape is correct, the back end is not what I would expect. The wheels are probably very close to what will debut.
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    In my opinion, whether they will keep the Windom or go to Lexus depends on how status conscious the Japanese are, as measured by Japanese purchasers' willingness to pay a premium to have "Lexus" versus "Toyota" on their vehicles. It appears as though Toyota marketing believes that Japanese purchasers are status conscious, hence the Lexus luxury line in Japan.

    No matter how we look at things, Lexus is still made by Toyota.
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    Your idea is great in theory. At this time, folks are paying a premium for 2006es over 2005s. I discovered this when I did an Edmund's TMV on the respective model years. The difference in prices was about 6% of MSRP, which on a $37000 MSRP amounts to $2220. So, if you buy a 2006 now, you can get the options you want but it will cost you $2220 over the 2005; not worth it to me.

    If a person decides to wait for the price of the 2006s to drop (which I think it will), I know Toyota enough to know that selection will be very limited, particularly as it gets closer to the 2007 appearing on dealer lots. You may not be able to find the options you want if you wait for the 2006 price to drop.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    True, which means buyers who want to get a good deal will have to be very flexible with colors and option levels.
  • motownusamotownusa Member Posts: 836
    Hmm !!! that is surprising. What would be the point of selling two identical cars, one with the T and one with the L on the steering wheel ? Are they going to do this for the forseeable future ? Once the new ES comes out I think everybody will get the Lexus version and not the Toyota version. Toyota wants to compete against the Europeans with more upscale products, IMO.
  • 1violinist1violinist Member Posts: 338
    I don't think they will be identical. I guess the Lexus will have a few extra features, better leather/wood, upgraded wheels/stereo, and perhaps longer warranty!
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    The Lexus has the Mark Levinson stereo, the longer Lexus warranty, and a few other things the Windom (or Harrier) doesn't have.

    But cosmetically they're IDENTICAL. From the grille to the dashboard design to the wheels.

    Hence why the badge kits are highly popular. Nobody can tell the difference unless they sit behind the wheel.

    Heres the Toyota Windom:
    http://www.in.gr/auto/news/images/big/in_Toyota_Windom_01.jpg

    I don't know why they sell them side by side.
    Maybe they've discontinued it now that Lexus is becoming prominent in Hong Kong. Not sure.

    But I have seen Windoms on the streets with ES300 badges and I have seen actual ES300s out there from the same generation. (the current one)
  • rahulguprahulgup Member Posts: 5
    I want to know what might be the pricing of the 2007 ES? Is the base price going to be around 32K (plus minus couple hundred dollars) as it is for the 2006 ES 330?
  • bluesman3bluesman3 Member Posts: 202
    I would anticipate exactly that, similar pricing, a few hundred more perhaps.
  • lenscaplenscap Member Posts: 854
    I think the ES may still be for the U.S. market only. Lexus is expanding big in Europe, but few in Europe are going to want FWD from a premium brand. BMW and Mercedes stick to rear-wheel drive (and AWD to an extent) because of its superior driving dynamics, and Europeans are driving enthusiasts more so than Americans.

    The only way I see the ES going global as a Lexus is if it becomes AWD.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    Which brings up something interesting:

    Will the ES get an AWD variant?
  • pzykofartpzykofart Member Posts: 46
    Yes, with a hybrid drivetrain in 2007.
  • poiuy3poiuy3 Member Posts: 10
    I don't think there will be a AWD ES. And the Hybrid won't come anytime soon. Camry will get one for its I4 version. Actually starting from Feb~March next year.
  • pzykofartpzykofart Member Posts: 46
    And the Hybrid won't come anytime soon.

    Which is why I said "2007." And yes, the upcoming ES hybrid will come in FWD and AWD iterations.
  • obelixobelix Member Posts: 2
    They may very well be identical. Remember that Acura and Lexus (and later Infiniti) were branding plays from the Japanese manifacturer to enter the luxury/high-end of the US market when their mainstream products (Honda, Toyota) were seen as good cheap cars (who would of thought of paying $30k+ for what was seen as a glorified Corolla?). Even the US manufacturers have been using this strategy (Ford Explorer vs. Mercury Mountaineer?). There are many markets outside the US where Honda and Toyota sell Acura/Lexus models under the Honda/Toyota name - which makes sense since, if at all possible, it's cheaper to maintain one brand than two (less dealers, less TV spend, etc.)
  • spfoteyspfotey Member Posts: 131
    Anybody know when the new ES350 will arrive?? the dealer told me March but that seems early. But he also said that they are steadily losing market share to both the Avalon and the TL and G35. Don't know if that's true or not, but strange for a Lexus person to offer it.
  • bluesman3bluesman3 Member Posts: 202
    Nothing has been officially announced other than to say "Spring of 2006". March would be logical and it's what I'm hoping for.

    No news there about loosing market share, it's been a steady erosion. All you need to do is look at the sales figures for the ES on a monthly basis. The same thing happened to the old Avalon, now the sales are exploding with a new design...

    The current ES is "dated" by today's design standards, who'd buy it compared to the makes you mentioned?

    So far we've only seen one decent digital rendering of what the car might look like. The tail lights are overly exagerated to throw you off but the shape and styling should be accurate. I would anticipate Lexus to copy the rear end styling of a BMW 5 series to some extent...

    http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/6493/newesrear9hi.jpg
    http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/9282/5seriesrear9df.png
  • bluesman3bluesman3 Member Posts: 202
    By the way, it has been reported on another forum that the new ES was shown in Canada to Lexus dealers only. The feedback is that the ES was shown along with the LF-Sh "concept" and that the ES was a pleasant surprise.
  • 307web307web Member Posts: 1,033
    Why do you say the shape and styling should be accurate?
    Based on what?
    More likely than not the drawing is completely bogus.
  • bluesman3bluesman3 Member Posts: 202
    Based upon the spy shots we've all seen of the new Camry, the profile of the ES rendering matches.

    We've consistently seen over time the backdoor way Toyota releases information on new models. A journalist is allowed to see the new design but can't take photos. What results are drawings that are really close but off just ever so much. We saw it with the IS and recently with the LF-SH....There were plenty of renderings floating about, none were exact but most were really close in one way or another. Look at each one and you get the overall picture.

    The ES drawing came from Mag-X.

    Define "bogus"? Yea it's not a photo of the actual car, it's a rendition done by someone who has seen the real deal. Close enough at this point unless you have something better.
  • 307web307web Member Posts: 1,033
    The Hollywood Extra and Mag-X often have fake or misidentified photos. How do you even know that that rendering was really done by someone who has seen the 2007 ES?
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    We'll never know for sure unless an insider leaks the news or unless its revealed at an auto show. :)
  • bluesman3bluesman3 Member Posts: 202
    I can't deny that about Hollywood extra, Mag-X has been more accurate.

    Everything about this image clicks for me (except for the back end). We'll know for sure in a few months when they take the wraps off the ES. My gut tells me this one is very close.

    Now that LF-SH is out I like to go back and compare all renderings to the real deal, almost every one of them has similar styling to the real car.

    All you need to do is look at the 5 series and you'll know what they're shooting for on the ES.
  • g17g17 Member Posts: 45
    links don't work
  • bluesman3bluesman3 Member Posts: 202
    Try these:

    5 Series
    Image Hosted by ImageShack.us
    Future ES?
    Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

    I expect Lexus to copy the 5 series rear. They copied the 7 series with the LF-SH....
  • callmedrfillcallmedrfill Member Posts: 729
    I don't see the 7 series in the LF-Sh

    I see it in the S-Class interior, and in the trunk lid.

    If BMW made a rear-end like that, no one would call it "Bangle-ized". Apples and Oranges.

    DrFill
  • bluesman3bluesman3 Member Posts: 202
    I don't know, seems like they borrowed a good deal from BMW. Lexus clearly stated they were after BMW customers.

    LF-SH
    Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

    7 Series
    Image Hosted by ImageShack.us
  • callmedrfillcallmedrfill Member Posts: 729
    The design is similar, the styling is far different, and superior. I seriously doubt Lexus saw that rear-end and said "Awesome! Why can't we do that?"

    And the production LS should have chrome exhaust finishers that are visible.

    Lexus has corrected another market mistake.

    Nice try, though.

    DrFill
  • maxellmanmaxellman Member Posts: 43
    The rear end of the LS is actually the worse part of the design, I expect they update that within 2 years of launch. The rest of the car is so far ahead of the S class, the rear seems to be out of tune with the overall theme. BMW was never admired because of it styling, why copy?
This discussion has been closed.