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Lexus ES 350
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Comments
If that's true, there are certainly enough cars, trucks, etc. in the Toyota family where they can favor fuel economy to boost the fleet average and while I'm not suggesting that they ignore fuel economy for the Lexus line, I think they need to favor drivability for the Lexus line if they really want to compete with the likes of MB, BMW and Audi.
It has been stressed in this forum before, regarding "cannot duplicate" for transmission problems: insist that your Lexus dealership open a trouble ticket with Lexus USA. Lexus engineers will help the technician troubleshoot the problem and, if warranted, have them use the parameters for checking the transmission. If your dealership is not cooperative in doing this, call Lexus USA Customer Service. Do not accept your vehicle back from them until they have done so or Lexus USA Customer Service resolves your complaint. Signing the repair ticket, to get your car back, is stating that you are satisfied with the work (or lack of) as satisfactory.
If your transmission proves to be defective, you do not have to settle for a transmission replacement right away. Call Lexus USA Customer Service and tell them you are not satisfied with the decision to replace your transmission, especially if it is low mileage, and that you want another vehicle, your money back or tell them you have purchased your last Lexus.
Lexus USA will work with your dealership and the regional Lexus USA office to settle your dispute. One of three outcomes will result, if your transmission is defective: 1. You will still be offered a replacement transmission. 2. Lexus USA will buy back your vehicle. 3. Lexus USA will find you another Lexus, even if you choose a different model and color (you must pay the difference in MSRP between vehicles). Naturally, they are going to offer you a new transmission first. If you accept this offer, it is like a criminal history report for your vehicle; it is forever "flagged" that it has a replacement transmission, in the Lexus service records.
The person that speaks to you, from Lexus USA Customer Service, becomes your advocate in helping you resolve your complaint and will communicate with you until the issue is resolved. Even after that decision, you can still tell Lexus USA Customer Service that you request an arbitrator to assist in the dispute. Lexus USA really will help you, when your dealership is either uncooperative or does not fix your car to your satisfaction. You do not have to sign the repair ticket and accept the vehicle until you are satisfied.
As a footnote, anytime there is a problem with your vehicle and the dealership cannot fix it or they cannot duplicate the problem, ask your service representative if the technician has opened a trouble ticket with Lexus USA for help in resolving the problem. Sometimes, there is a fix or reported issue that local dealerships are not away of because Lexus USA has not released a service bulletin.
Lexus USA would rather have a "happy" customer than a dissatisfied one. Happy customers are good advertisers for Lexus and more likely to purchase another Lexus.
Did the dealership fix therattle? If so, how?
All high-sounding fiction that ignores the fundemental fact that under all so-called "Lemon-Law" statutes, an automanufacturer is extended the opportunity to repair a given vehicle malfunction three times (four in some states) before the vehicle owner may seek court redress in seeking a vehicle exchange or buy-back. Vehicle warranties are not a fundemental federal or state constitutionally protected legal "right" - they're a purely marketing-driven, voluntarily-entered into contract issued by automakers, though once done, are enforceable through the Federal Trade Commission and individual state consumer advocacy agencies, the latter usually operated through state attorney general's offices, such that if the vehicle owner does such and such in the way of prescribed maintenance and operation, the vehicle manufacturer will likewise do such and such as spelled out in the warranty supplement booklet or section in the owner's manual (the vehicle owner's copy of the contract provisions) to repair listed parts and systems. Another of the provisions reserved by automakers in those contracts is the use of factory rebuilt or factory-approved rebuilt parts, when available, in executing warranty service.
Please tell me if and when they fix your problem. It sounds like you have the same noise.
I have the same cold transmission slippage/gear searching.
To my suprise,I was ginen a new new es350 loaner last week with only 20 miles on the clock.It also did the cold tranny slippage.
I would appreciate it if someone can help me on date of manufacture on my es350.
I picked it up in Sept.I only have 600 miles on it.
Thanks
Are you stating something useful to Lexus vehicle owners with transmission problems?
Buying a Lexus is not the same experience as purchasing a Toyota Camry and even more so than a vehicle from an American-owned vehicle manufacturer. Unless you have utilized Lexus USA Customer Service, concerning transmission problems, you have no basis to compare the service or Lexus warranties to your loquacious knowledge of information that is probably more suited to the Ford forum.
The Japanese government holds Toyota/Lexus to a higher standard than the FTC. Just like German and French beer and wine quality are regulated by the governments of those nations, vehicle manufacturers in Japan are regulated for quality compliance. Toyota was actually fined this year for slow response in correcting a vehicle problem and slow response in notiftying customers who purchased the vehicles. Unfortunately, once vehicles are delivered to Toyota or Lexus USA, they are not subject to Japanese govermental control. Luckily for us, Lexus USA is concerned with customer satisfaction.
I sincerely believe that there is not a need to threaten Lexus USA with your legal rights under state and federal vehicle-warranty legislation, unless you choose to, nor will you find that Lexus dealerships are going to state the rights afforded them under the same laws to you.
I have personally utilized Lexus USA Customer Service with one of the ES350s with a bad transmission. The result was that the representative at Lexus USA acted as my advocate, coordinated activities between me, the Lexus USA regional office and my local Lexus dealership. The result was that Lexus USA purchased back my ES350 Premium-Package vehicle, let me order a UL Edition with a different color, supplied me with an ES330 until my vehicle arrived and paid all of the transaction, title transfer and tag fees, all without any hassle whatsoever and I received a personalized letter from Lexus USA and the dealership, thanking me for my patience and purchasing another vehicle from Lexus. My "advocate" from Lexus USA then called me to see if I was satisfied with the transaction and if they could be of any further assistance.
That same service is afforded every Lexus owner, unless you don't want to use it and choose the Ralph-Nader approach as stated earlier.
Do you have the service bulletin number and the name of the kit that they will install to your car to fix the cold engine noise and transmission problems?
I've found that, when it comes to service bulletins, if you don't tell your service advisor that you are having a problem with something, different service techs will not always tell you about service bulletins that exist to fix specific problems. Tell them everything that is "bugging" you, no matter how slight.
When I purchased my car and was introduced to the service department, I picked a service tech that I had a very good rapport with from my previous experience with my ES330. I always make my service appointments with that service tech. I always ask him/her, confidentially, what service bulletins have come out for the ES350. I may not have that specific problem but I know there is a fix if it does happen.
The negative side of that is that you can be like a hypochondriac with your ES350, waiting and listening for a problem covered by a specific bulletin. The positive side side is that if you discover there is a service bulletin, you might remember that you do have that problem but forgot about it until you were reminded.
Either way, it doesn't effect your relationship with the service department because all the service bulletins are warrantable items that they will be reimbursed by Lexus USA for fixing. It's just a policy of "don't ask don't tell" or probably "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".
And don't forget, if you have a problem with your ES350 that is new and there is not a service bulletin for, ask the service tech to have the mechanic enter the problem into the Lexus database, asking for help from the engineers. This way, Lexus USA will be looking for your specific problem and issue a service bulletin that may save time and help the rest of us if that problem occurs in our vehicles.
The very nature of forums is that they're skewed towards people who have problems. This doesn't mean that those problems aren't real, but it does mean that transmission problem (or other problem) posts will far outnumber no transmission (or other problem) posts.
There are definitely a significant number of ES350s with transmission issues (too many). Most, but by no means all of them have occurred in pre-July builds. Most owners with these problems have had their situations successfully resolved by Lexus, usually via a new transmission or car. There are also a number of owners who aren't happy with the attention they've been getting from Lexus about this and are voicing their displeasure. This is as it should be and is what these forums are for.
For the record, my March build has had no problems other than the Climate Voice Recognition problem that was covered by a TSIB and fixed via a warranty replacement of the display screen.
The power, comfort, styling, features, fuel economy, and total value of this car continue to make it my first choice among automobiles. If my ES350 was totalled tomorrow, I'd buy another one before the week was up. It's a great car.
My ES 350 is a 7/06 build, and it too has the 3-4 tranny flare; however--or, so far--in my case it "only" happens:
a) shortly after a cold start;
b) only if I can get up to speed so as to get to the 3-4 upshift, in a relatively short amount of time (by that I don't necessarily mean accelerate as if trying to set a new 0-60 time)--see point e);
c) when the flare does happen it happens just once during the current engine cycle, although in all fairness I did not test under multiple acceleration/deceleration/acceleration runs within a short timeframe to see if I could get the flare to repeat;
d) for the moment, the flare results in the engine revs going up only around 500 rpm;
e) if after a cold start I manage to drive around a minute (possibly in combination w/ having the car idle for about a minute during cold-start warm up) w/o having yet reached a 3-4 upshift (quite possible, as I have to drive in a residential area where kids are walking to school), the flare does not occur once I encounter the first 3-4 upshift;
f) was observed under "normal" throttle application--i.e., at most I was accelerating like any sensible driver would...at worst, I was almost driving like a granny. Or to put it another way--if someone had stated that the flare only occurs if the throttle was at least moderately-applied (e.g., fairly-brisk acceleration)...well I can tell you now that one doesn't need to mash the gas pedal--even halfway--in order to get the flare to occur.
Given the above, it would seem that my issue isn't as bad compared to some of the others I've read about here and elsewhere. Not to say that it should be acceptable period, but given my specific circumstances it would appear somewhat difficult to convince the dealer to do anything as "drastic" as either replacing the tranny or buying back my car. Also--I read that supposedly the dealer won't even bother fixing the flare issue unless the rpm surge is at least 1000 rpm and can be duplicated easily (during cold start conditions). This flare issue hasn't (yet) affected the overall driving function of my ES, so it's not as if I'm not getting my money's worth...so for now I'll be content just acting as if there is no flare issue in my car until it becomes a major issue which would make a visit to my dealer completely unavoidable.
Mine is mostly like what you described. I've noticed this 3-4 upshift flare (around 500 rpm) from the very begining of my ownership. The car is also a 7/06 build. I am more and more concerned after reading all other posts. The gear shifts are also rough when the car is cold. I can obviously feel every shift. :confuse: What about yours?
I drove with my dealer this morning, but couldn't reproduce that on a flat road. I don't know whether this happens more often uphill...
I'm currently looking at a 2006 Acura RL, but it doesn't "Wow" me like the ES350, but at the same time both cars are about the same price... but the RL has an edge b/c it has the SH-AWD. That is handy..... since I live where there is a bad weather and snow.
I may reconsider?
Does anyone have a transmission flare/issue with a ES350 build after 7/06? Just trying to pinpoint maybe when Lexus fixes and identifies the transmission issue.
My biggest hesitation is that it looks like an Accord. I don't want to pay $40k for a "nice" Accord.
I still can't tell the difference between the ES350 and the Camry when going down the road. I have to be right up on it to tell.
I just didn't see the WOW in the 350 ever.
Nice car but looks WAY to much like a Camry. Drove to loose for me. It did have all the bell's & whistles though. But just could not pay top dollar for a car that seemed no more than a super nice Camry.
I do not have that information as my car is still at the dealership (Oct 23 - Present). It seems that they do not have the kit and it is back ordered. I did read on a previous post that someone did have it installed and the part # was TC 004-06. I do not know if that is the kit they intend to install on my transmission.
Give them your VIN number and they will give you the "exact date" your car was built.
the statement "I can't tell the difference between a Camry & ES350" is a old played out lame joke!
Be patient, you'll love it.
It's not a perfect car by any means, but for the money it's a steal.
"Yeah, ok! I bet if a magazine didn't tell you that the Camry and ES350 shared a platform you couldn't tell the difference by sitting in it, driving it, or looking at it!"
Your words LOL then why pay more for a 350? just get the Camry same car but the Lexus blows air up your butt.
I ended up with a BMW 530. They don't call it the Ultimate driving machine for nothing. But if the Lexus drove like any other car in it's class then i could agree to spend the extra money, but to spend all that money to drive a Park Avenue i just could not do it.
It is a nice car but to think that it stands out from a Camry on the road your just kidding yourself.
Also i'm sad that Lexus can't get the handling right. I looked up what Car & Driver wrote and it is right on as to how it felt to me. I had hoped that the new 350 would handle different from my 330.
""Lexus claims it has put some extra starch in the ES350’s suspension to stiffen up its road manners, but we didn’t sense it. What we did experience was the same softly damped body motions and lots of predictable understeer. When it comes to handling, the ES350 is still as dull as a butter knife rather than as sharp as a scalpel, as our mediocre 0.75-g skidpad result indicates. We did notice a trait that the ES has always shared with the Camry: the annoying habit of feeding road imperfections back through the steering wheel without letting the driver know what’s going on with the front tires. Switching from all-season radials to a dedicated summer tire would probably help the situation, but that might also make the ride less buttery smooth.
The ES350 isn’t about excitement or sporty driving — it’s meant to get you from point A to point B in a stylish manner with the least amount of fuss and stress. And it does that damn near perfectly.""
I really wanted to get the WOW effect in the 350 but Lexus just can't seem to get it into their entry level sedans. For the money you can't beat Lexus. Most comfortable car i own, but to say they got it right NO WAY.
as to why i still read these forums... when we were shopping for a car i came here. I started to see the complaints on the transmission, so i still follow the threads.
I'll leave LOL
How about BMW - what is the distinguishing difference in that line (until you get into the upper level) besides the price?
Suspension and ride is subjective - what is a fantastic ride to one person is mediocre for the next person - just depends on what you're used to or what you want (and how much of a purist you are or think you might be).
"WOW effect" - see paragraph above.
Transmission problems? I have an Avalon LTD (05) and the 07 350, both of which are supposedly notorious with transmission issues. None for me so far - both cars have been perfect so I can't knock either.
I had an 02 ES300 and can only compare the 07 to that one; true, the 07 is less of a "sport model" than the 300 but that was pretty obvious, so I didn't expect the same with the 07. Overall, I'm extremely pleased with what I got as I'm sure you are, with your BMW.
That is why Lexus forked the low-end product line into two lines, the ES and the IS. The ES is for us stodgy types.
When will you learn that YOU CAN'T HAVE IT ALL
If you're looking for a car with a smooth, super comfortable, quiet car, then get the ES, and if a harder riding, uncomfortable car, then the IS is for you. That's exactly why I traded in my Porsche 911 and BMW 330!! :P
You must do this each time the car is restarted. Follow the instructions exactly. I don't know what damage you could do if you pressed the wrong thing.
Also, only do this if you have a passenger who can program the Nav. It is dangerous to try to drive and enter destinations into the Nav at the same time.
Just exactly (month, page) where did you see this in Consumer Reports?