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Lexus ES 350
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Comments
he he was on an officers salary and buying lexus's, perhaps he had financial difficulty....
This case was complicated by a sort of perfect storm; this particular car has a fancy keyless ignition, the driver may have been unfamiliar with the shift pattern and some genius stuck in a cool super-weatherproof floor mat -- made for a different vehicle. The correct mat hooks onto the floor and can't foul the pedals, but this one was a bit too big an maybe not hooked to the floor. Normal foot motion could shove it forward and maybe over the gas pedal. Still, you gotta pay attention and don't just flail about when something unexpected happens.
1. Step on the brake (duh). The 4 wheel brakes easily overpower the 2 drive wheels (or 4 driven wheels with AWD). I have an AWD car with a turbo and the brakes could easily overpower full throttle. If you are already traveling at highway speeds, you'll need to use some force on the brake pedal and it'll feel strange, but the brakes still outpower the engine. A typical car can stop from 100 to 0 in five seconds; no car has that much accelerating power.
then
2. Shift into Neutral, coast to the side of the road.
OR
3. Turn off the engine. The brakes and steering will still work
You don't like 1,2, or 3? It's hard to imagine why (artificial legs fell off? Aliens sending high voltage through the ignition key?), but there are more no-brainer options.
a. Downshift until you reach 1st gear. That takes you down to about 30mph, and engine braking will slow the car.
b. If it's an automatic you can hit reverse. That might stall the engine or possibly throw the drive wheels into a skid (they'll start turning again on their own) but that's better than screaming, texting your mechanic or staring into space.
c. If it's a manual shift and you haven't figured this out.... it's hopeless. Pull out your phone and get the video.
If the service brakes really failed you still have other options, but since the acel and brake systems have no mechanical connection, and there are 2 separate, independent hydraulic brake circuits the only way this would happen is the movie scenario where the evil genius/government agency/alien installs radio controlled gadgets that cuts both your brake lines at once. Even then you have other ways to stop the car.
The problem is that many people are not driving their cars, they're passengers holding the wheel. Once something goes wrong they simply stare out the windshield and allow any reflexes they may have to take over.
(Christine is a horror novel by Stephen King, published in 1983. It tells the story of a
vintage automobile apparently possessed by supernatural forces.)
http://www.leftlanenews.com/a-closer-look-at-toyotas-sudden-acceleration-problem- .html
So, if the floormat catches the accelerator petal or computer controlled throttle
malfunctions, the keyless start/stop feature can not be enabled in a "WIDE OPEN THROTTLE" until it is held down for 3 seconds. In 3 seconds you can be at 45mph!
How many seconds would it take you to figure this "3 second feature" out if your in panic mode and accelerating towards 100mph!?
They designed a car with out a kill switch and blame it on the car owner which installs a floormat and not aware of the 3 second kill delay?
Now thats smart
Here are some additional information about Toyota's quality and engineering practices:
"Consumer groups are watching and If the allegations are correct that Toyota destroyed or withheld (electronic) data, it has the potential to reopen hundreds of Toyota rollover cases."
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2009-09-01-rollover-lawsuits-toyota_N.htm
"Consumers saddled with sludge-clogged Toyota engines may soon get some help from the Japanese auto giant under the terms of a class-action lawsuit settlement that covers roughly3.5 million Toyota and Lexus vehicles damaged by engine oil sludge."
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2007/01/toyota_sludge_settlement.html
jd
Is this an ongoing problem with cars made from Toyota?
I'm thinking of buying a Toyota but I'm a little concerned about the problems and the length of time the problem has been around.
Why can't they fix it? :lemon:
No car can overpower its brakes! From any speed. If your foot is on the brake pedal the car will come to a stop. From 10, 20, 80, 120 MPH. I have personally done this on a closed track. When people say the car continues to accelerate despite "pressing with all their might" on the brakes, their foot wasn't on the brake pedal.
Simple. End of story.
It is impossible.
1. Any ideas on how to convince the dealer to help me?
2. If the dealer won't help me, any suggestions on how to inexpensively hide the license plate holes?
Thanks!
After owning this 2008 for some time though, it is still pretty to look at and a great highway car that gets very nice fuel efficiency.
Regarding your complaints about the design errors in the ES, I would say that they have corrected one, the hanger hooks, but that the others still remain. I have heard that the front armrest storage has improved for 2010, but can't verify.
The interior lighting still seems weak and there's only the ski pass-thru to the trunk. Better than nothing, but we'd prefer fold down seats.
Unfortunately, as good as the A6 is, the price has gone to the stratosphere with options that we have on our ES. We considered the A4, which has almost reached the size of the old A6, but even it's price comes to the mid 40's with just the 4 cylinder engine.
Whatever it's shortcomings, the ES continues to offer an incredible value for the price. That, and the good dealer sales & service experience we had with our previous ES brought us back. Once again, the sales experience was absolutely first class.
Regards, Mike
For all of these negatives, it is still a nice car as far as I am concerned. And from a safety standpoint, OK. RE: sudden acceleration -I can see that if the mats were deliberately unfastened, this could be problematic but, DAH, nothing movable except the drivers feet should should be in the drivers footwell.
Sometimes the damage is obvious, like someone opening a door against the car, or front bumper hitting a parking garage wall when trying to park to close. Others are very small, the size of the head of a pin. I found a forum dedicated to this exact problem and even an attorney's web page looking to start a class action suit. So I know I'm not alone. Anyone with similar experience and suggestions for getting Lexus to fix it?
I followed the news about the accident involving the CHP officer and members of his family intently, not because I'm a retired cop, but because I purchased an '09 ES350 a few weeks before the accident made the news. From what I have read and seen in news reports, the loaner Lexus the CHP officer was driving was outfitted with an all-weather floor mat installed by the dealer and not intended for the vehicle. It was believed to have been the cause of the jammed accelerator. The 911 call was made from the officer's brother-in-law who was sitting in the back seat. An audio recording of the 911 call was released to the media a few weeks ago. Having heard it twice, it was apparent that the brother-in-law was on the line with the 911 operator right up to the moment of the accident.
While I'm not privy to the CHP's MAIT report of the accident, it has been reported that several witnesses have given statements saying that they saw smoke coming from all four wheels of the Lexus, indicating that the officer was applying full brake force while the car was speeding out of control. No one knows at what point the officer began applying the brakes. Presumably it was the moment he realized the car was accelerating on its own, and since he was on the highway as opposed to a surface street, it seem likely that he was already traveling at 60 or better. With the car under full throttle, the Lexus would have shifted down one or two gears, giving a significant amount of acceleration power for the brakes to overcome. In a matter of seconds the brakes would have become overheated and next to worthless at stopping the car with the accelerator pedal still floored.
I'm sure that kennynmd can testify to the fact that a surge of adrenalin can radically alter what would normally be common sense responses during moments of panic. Ask any officer who has experienced a wild hot chase.
Early in my career I responded to a call of an in-progress burglary at 2:30 in the morning in a residential area. As I crept up to the address in my 1970 Plymouth patrol car, the burglar took off in his late '60s Impala. I tried to stop him with my reds and a blurp from my siren, but he took off, and we were soon traveling in excess of 70 mph on surface streets. At the time, I was a two-footed driver, using my left foot for the brake and my right for the accelerator. (This was long before my department developed a high-speed driving course we had to attend annually to sharpen our driving skills.)
When the burglar attempted to make a 90-degree left-hand turn onto a main thoroughfare in the heart of the city, I instinctively knew he was going far too fast to make it. Sure enough, he slid sideways into a light standard at the intersection. I didn't even attempt to make the turn. Instead, I kept the patrol car headed straight and stood on the brakes. Hard. Really hard. As hard as I possibly could, but my car wouldn't stop. It was no longer accelerating, but it wouldn't stop. It then flashed in my mind that I was pushing as hard on the brake with my left food as I was pushing on the throttle with my right. After immediately removing my right foot from the accelerator, the brakes were so hot by then they would only have a minimal slowing effect. When my partner and I finally bailed out of our patrol car that was now stopped in the middle of the street a half block beyond the crashed burglar's car, the first thing we noticed was the smoke and smell coming from the our car's brakes. This incident cured me from being a two-footed driver. It also taught me what it's like to try and stop a car at speed using the brakes while the throttle is pressed against the floorboard.
I feel it's unfair to make any judgments about what the officer behind the wheel in the loaner Lexus did or didn't do, especially without knowing all the facts. And I suspect that the officers who made up the elite CHP MAIT team that investigated the accident would say the same thing. The only thing everyone should agree on is that it was a terrible tragedy.
I will say this: Every time I get behind the wheel of my '09 ES350, I glance down at my factory floor mat to make sure I can see that the hook in the floor extends through the hole in the mat. And I am fully aware that if I need to shut the engine down at speed, I need to depress the Ignition Start button for three seconds.
what am i missing?
Read in the news for some Toyota owners, these fixes didn't solve their unintended acceleration problem, and for others, the new software causes all kind of warning lights on.
if it is, I don't see why we need to pay $200 extra to get the paint protection from chips, dings, etc that should already come with the car :confuse:
I just saw another product about a month ago that is a spray-on application, done by a shop. Haven't seen it on a car yet but the ad says it's even less noticeable than the film because you can't see where it starts or ends.
I would recommend having this done!
My question to you: Did you consider this reason when you purchased Lexus?
I have noticed that the ASL does not seem to work in the ES350 I recently bought. There is no change in volume at all when I go to higher speeds or reduce my speed. Has anybody else faced the same issue? My dealer told me that this is how it works for ES350