Dodge Challenger 2008 and Later

mopar_rick · May 2006

I'm a Mopar guy and remember growing up. It was us against bowties and blue ovals, but now the three of us have to stick together against those imports otherwise there won't be any of the big three left. We have to get the US population to believe in the big three again and dump those imports. We're selling our country away. Yes, it's Mopar or no car but the last thing that I'd buy is an import.

C2456Ron · May 2006

Do you really think the "Decaf" will help, or am I too far gone?

I suppose my 40+ years of driving these cars, and growing up with them have possibly put me over the top, but still I remain a Fan of two door cars! I see no need for 4 doors, even if you have children, what could be safer then a 2 door vehicle, no matter which brand you choose! How can a child fall out of a backseat, with no doors? Unless your Handicapped, which I am, I still see no reason for having one of these cars, and having to get out to allow anyone into the rear seat, I did it for many years, and remain that way still today, they don't even look right with the extra doors in the rear! But I WILL take your suggestion and try "Decaf" for awhile, maybe it is just me that thinks like this! My wife kind of agrees with both of us, thinking that I am over the top, but also seeing the cars such as Charger with 4 doors, when in fact that particular car would look so much more AWESOME with just 2 doors, as it was intended to have way back when! But I never intended to offend anyone, nor get anyone's tighty whitie's in a bunch either, not over a car! Corvette's STILL Rule! I guess I am just a Die Hard Bow Tie Fan! I DO apologize if I offended you, have a nice day! :shades:
Ron

C2456Ron · May 2006

I see no need to worry about the Fuel Mileage on any car, especially today! I've been driving Corvette's for many years now, and my wife has had a few new cars also that ALL get good fuel mileage, by my standard anyway! I'm getting anywhere between 20 - 23 MPG around Town, and 27 - 29 MPG on a Trip in my Vette's, and my wife is presently driving an '02 Monte Carlo SS, and she gets 24 - 26 around Town, and just about 35 MPG on a Trip! She does get better fuel mileage in my Vette then I do, but she don't have the hefty weight of my right foot either! I would have to say she would get atleast 1 to 3 MPG in anything that we drive! To say that we should all drive Rice Rockets, just to save on fuel is not right for everyone! If you feel comfortable driving one of those, PLEASE DO!
I lost my job at General Motors when I came Home from Vietnam, my father lost his when they CLOSED it because of slumping sales in American Cars, and all the [non-permissible content removed] Crap was starting to assemble their cars in the US, so they could say "BUILT in AMERICA"! I just wish that the American Public could see exactly what they are doing to us, the entire country of the United States, everytime they purchase a foreign car! I still do not believe it when I hear that they build a better car then us! Now that is a "Left Wing Conspiracy"! I will walk before I ever purchase a Japanese car, I'll stick to the "American Muscle" Thank You! But to each his own, as long as your Happy driving what you are! This is only MY OPINION, nobody else's!

C2456Ron · May 2006

"Forgekiller1", I totally agree with you in that we have to stick together and Buy American! But I believe you are wrong on the Cuda being the first, and Mustang being 2nd, PLEASE correct me if I am wrong! In mid '63 for came out with the '63 1/2 Mustang, with a High Performance 289 cu. in. that put out something like 312 HP! I had a friend that owned one of the very first ones to hit the street in my area, he did some motor work on it, and he Redlined @ 9500 RPM, went like He**, not too many cars could keep up with that thing, never mind beat it in the 1/4 mile! In '64, Plymouth came out with a Bellevadere (sp), stripped, no heater, no radio, no cigarette lighter/ashtray, and no armrest's either, nothing, no creature comforts at all, with a 426 HEMI, looked like Daddy's car down to the small hub caps and painted wheels, but was Scary Fast! That was about the time that all 3 Auto Manufacturer's went Nutz and were putting cars on the Showroom Floor that should never have been in kids hands! It wasn't until the very late '60, or early '70's the the Feds put the Brakes on, and told the Big 3 to slow down! But this is what I remember from the early days of the "Factory Hot Rods"! I know I am dating myself, but YES, I was around, and driving these cars myself, they were AWESOME to drive, and what a rush you could have just stomping on the right peddle!!! :shades: :shades: :shades:

rorr · May 2006

Actually, regarding forgekiller; YES, the Plymouth Barracuda beat the Mustang to the showroom floor (in April of 1964). It beat it to the showroom by a whole TWO WEEKS!!!!

Whooop!

So, if forgekiller thinks Ford 'copied' Plymouth by releasing the Mustang 2 weeks after the 'cuda, then he must have a higher opinion of the capability of Ford than even I do.

And the first Mustangs' ('64-1/2) had a 260 V8. The 289 came with the '65 models. The HiPo289 was rated at 271hp in the Mustangs. Shelby massaged them the HiPo289 to get 306hp (in GT350) and close to 360hp in full race tune (in the GT350R).

I will agree with you guys on one huge point: the current Charger looks stupid as a 4 door. Chargers are (if done correctly) 2 door cars. And the upcoming Challenger looks REALLY sweet.

deano69 · May 2006

I will sell my WS6 to purchase one of these cars with the Hemi under two conditions- Lime green color is available and the engine is flex fuel capable. Always wanted a Cuda when I was a teenager, but they were either rusted through or out of my price range. NOW I can get that style AGAIN! Don't put skinny tires on the back either!

rannypipe · May 2006

So I'm a traitor for buying the 06 Mustang, I guess the right thing to do is for me to wait 2 or so years sit on the sideline, do nothing grit my teeth and wait for the challenger, sorrrryyyyyyy. No way. I want some gratification now, At least I'm buying American, by the way, the first car credited as being referred to as being "The First American Muscle Car" is the 1964 Pontiac GTO.

wantone3 · May 2006

Does anyone know if there are any talks about creating this new Hemi Challenger in a rag top? If so I'm slapping down the cash now for it?

jae5 · May 2006

...he did some motor work on it, and he Redlined @ 9500 RPM,...

yeah...right...sure it did.

Did you get some decaf yet?

workinstiff · May 2006

was the 55 chrysler 300.....Unlike the later mustangs and GTOs, which never did anything at the races, the 300 dominated NASCAR in it's, the 300's, first year...This was all the more impressive because Chrysler had no interest in supporting chrysler products on NASCAR tracks....Some rich guy just bought a few 300s, took them south and totally dominated against factory supported teams from Ford & GM, winning some 25 of 40 races...
The first barracuda may have beat the first Mustang to the show room floor but it was nothing but a souped up valient with a fastback....and it was UGGGLY...The Mustang was a totally new, and beautiful, design....Ford made great cars back then....To bad they don't anymore...Old Henry must be turning over in his grave.....

forgekiller1 · May 2006

Calm down wantone3 there coming! They have some finalizing to do so it can swallow some stangs. (not that that it never could before but the hood intake scoop was too small man . . .just kidding!

) As far as the rag top I'm sure too that will be part of the program later. For real they are working it in, it does take time I just learned. Mean while go to dodge.challenger.front.500 for the beginning. Put that on your desktop along with the those stang lovers (who I know have) and get a napkin, place that in your lap or over the keyboard and dream and then. . yes. . . .drool! And soon your dream will come TRUE! By the way to you stang lovers,the Challenger took the show away in Chicago, of coarse it was shared a little by the Camaro Concept which in my opinion has NO retro( which people want), it's ok though. . .did I say that? HARDCORE MOPAR HERE BABY! And guess what. . . I see alot of others crossing over to the winners of style,quality,and enginnering. . . .CHRYSLER RULES!!!! COPY? OVER! :shades:

rorr · May 2006

"Unlike the later mustangs and GTOs, which never did anything at the races...."

:confuse:

Ever heard of Carrol Shelby?

Are you aware of the Mustang Shelby GT350 which dominated their class in SCCA road racing in the mid 60's? Not to mention the later success of various Mustangs in TransAm racing.

mantag · June 2006

C'mon, are all of you brainwashed, stuck in the 70's or what? Mechanically - Dodge looks like they got it right, however - the sheetmetal???? I feel like I am in a time machine. Everything old is new again, its just the design does not look fresh at all. It looks like they took the car from the 70's and dropped on todays engine/frame etc..

For some reason - the Chevy Camaro cathes my eye. Definatley styling cues from the 70's, but it looks up to date for todays world.

Sorry, I'll pass on the Challenger- suckers

C2456Ron · June 2006

Loren, Please check with the Corvette Museum in Bowling Green, KY. They will tell you that the "XLR Caddy" is the ONLY other vehicle that is produced @ the Bowling Green Factory, aside from the Corvette! Ever since Corvette moved to Bowling Green, it had been the ONLY car built there until last year with the XLR coming in, because it is built on the Corvette Composite Frame, and it is a 2 seater! The frame on each of these cars is extremely strong & light, even the Corvette ZO6 weighs in @ a whapping 3130 lbs, using this frame & Carbon Fiber body parts, to include even the floor panels, and any other body part (which is almost ALL body parts)! This is why the ZO6 only weighs what it does, and not one German, English, or Italian Exotic car can even come close too! I do not see any of these Exotic Manufacturers even coming close to the Vette on the Race Track either, not even their 1/2 million dollar vehicles cannot come close to the weight & speed of the ZO6! Give me a few ZO6's anyday, against any Lamborghini, Ferrari, or Astin Martin, and I will have more then enough money left over to drive that "Small Block 427 cu in engine", 505 HP "Factory Hot Rod" around town, or the highway with what I have saved from the purchase of the Corvette's!

Good Ole American know how! Can anyone tell me why "Porsche" came here in late 1956 and purchased 2 - 1957 Corvette's? Because they could NOT keepup with them on the Race Track, and wanted to find out why, and what "Zora Arkus Duntov" was doing to get these things to go like they did!

Please do not hold me to this speed, but in 1955, a Corvette with it's 1st V8 in it, held the "Speed Record @ Daytona Beach" doing 165 MPH, with a 265 cu in engine, with just a 4 bbl carb on it! It is stamped on the Bell Housing that is was the "World Record Holder" of that speed record, and the new owner tried selling it at the Nashville 50th Anniversary Bash, that Corvette was holding there in '03, with all documentation! Please correct me if I am wrong, but have followed these cars for many years, and beleive I have my facts in order!
Ron...

C2456Ron · June 2006

I think that was the most popular color back when they came out, at least it was the color I seen the most! I believe that the 60 series tires was the largest tire you could get on any car back then, since then you can get stock tires that are almost 14 inches wide!

I believe that the stock back tires on my C6 Vette are 12 inches wide, but wish they were wider! Always want something Bigger, Better, Faster, no matter what I get!? Maybe I'm just childish, but I am told that I am NEVER satisfied with what I get, wonder why that is? :confuse: :shades: I wish you Luck no matter how things turn out, but I DO hope you get what you want, SOON!!!

But I doubt that you will ever see a High Performance Engine (especially a HEMI, that runs on High Octane Fuel) that will run on "Flex Fuel", 85 Octane usually!

Ron

qbrozen · June 2006

Dodge looks like they got it right, however - the sheetmetal???? I feel like I am in a time machine. Everything old is new again, its just the design does not look fresh at all. It looks like they took the car from the 70's and dropped on todays engine/frame etc..

At a time when people are paying 6 figures at the auction for 70s sheetmetal, Dodge DEFINITELY got it right (as did Ford with the new stang) by offering a modernized classic car.

C2456Ron · June 2006

Like the Mustang, I would have liked to have seen more refinement, and changes! Not just drag out the same Tool & Dye Set, but it STILL looks Great, and does remind me of the old days, when we were much younger and the cars were Icons! I think that if GM brings out the new Camaro, anywhere near what it looks like in the Proto Type, they will have a great selling car, and one that will be good on economy with the 8 cyclinder (400 HP) when you need it, and drops to 4 cyclinders when you don't!!! But that is only my opinion!

shipo · June 2006

"Like the Mustang, I would have liked to have seen more refinement, and changes! Not just drag out the same Tool & Dye Set..."

I'd lay odds that there isn't one single piece that is interchangeable between the 1970 Challenger and the 200? Challenger. Hell, I'll bet that not even a single third party sourced light bulb is the same.

BTW, as a separate bet... I'll bet that the "tool and dye sets" made for the 1970 vintage cars, Challenger included, have long since been scrapped.

Long live the Challenger! ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

ogreman · June 2006

disclaimer: I'm not an engineer nor do I work in the automotive business:

Please feel free to add/subtract/copy adjust this message

Question
1) Will the Challenger coupe be produced, when and where is it in the decision tree?

1.1 prototype approved, initial business case prepared
1.2 displayed in Detroit Jan 2006
1.3 rave reviews or in worse case alot of us like it

1.4 decision to cost production, supplier asked for quotes mar-apr 06?
1.5 business case updated? possible production location chosen
1.6 car is shown to public in LA area ... apparently car is still lusted for :shades:
1.7 go / no go DC management if decision before dec 06, then 2008 model (sept 07) or if earlier decision (jun 06) 2007.5 (jan 07) at best .
1.8 Based on 1st year will conv. get green light?
-------------------------------------------------
Specifications

these depend on the business model chosen.
Elite (Saleen, Corba, SVT, Roushe, ...)

very nice company ;-)

volume expected 15K units year max. ( not selling the 30K crossfire units) (and you thought PT cruisers were overpriced on Launch)
Base:
Engine:
500hp V8 Hemi 500+- change (392?")
Transmission:
std: 6 manual
op: 7 automatic (new version as torque is to high for MB 7)
Tires: front 19"-20" 235-265/50
rear 20:-22: 265-350
optional ? anything goes here
Suspension:
based on MB E-class
sport based on MB E-class AMG
Brakes:
front: 14" 4 piston
rear 12" 2 piston
Weight: dry 3000 lbs ... please 2800 is you can do i
Body and frame: LX... maybe early shortened LY?

Options:
sunroof ?
really expensive leather ;-)
GPS nav
7.1 sound

R race package for trans am :shades:
DR drag race package just for fun
RTS- add twin turbos, lightweight body from above

Case #2
Large production run (think mustang) 100-200K units year
Engine:
V6 3.5L 280hp
V8 Hemi 5.7L 345hp
SRT 6.1 Hemi 435hp

Transmission:
std: 5 automatic
op: 6 manual

Tires: front 17"-19" 215-245/50
rear 17:-20: 225-265

Suspension:
based on 300C
sport based on 300C SRT
Brakes:
front: 12" 2 piston
rear 10" 1 piston
Weight: dry 3300 lbs
Body and frame: LX
Options:
sunroof
nice leather
GPS nav
7.1 sound

------------------------------------

Thoughts on the possibilities?

C2456Ron · June 2006

Shipo, I would never take that bet, and I do agree with you totally that nothing is interchangeable! I was just being a little sarcastic in saying that about the Mustang & Challenger, because they are just too close to the original models! I like looking at the old cars the way they looked, and new cars the way they look, but if you want to replacate any of these fine automobiles, you should atleast modernize them to a point that they still look similar, but NOT the same as old! I want people to see this is NOT a 1969, but a 200?. Just think of the 100's of hours and 1000's of dollars people put into Restoring these fine cars, then the factory comes out with the identical car! I restored an older Vette, cost me a lot of time & $$$$$, but I STILL had an old car, not a duplicate! This is ONLY MY OPINION, and don't expect anyone else to agree with me, it's just me, and my way of thinking! If they come out with the new Camaro the way IT looks, I may even consider one myself! I like the added looks of old, but still all the newer looks, which distinguishes it apart from old! Thanx for your comments, and keeping me Honest!

Ron

mopar_rick · June 2006

I don't know why Dodge is keeping so hush hush with the decision. The more publicity, the more units that it'll sell, although, I think that all will be gone in a second. I heard that it will be built in one of Dodge's plants in Canada. I like the car as is. I'm hoping that Dodge doesn't make any changes. The car has been a hit at the car shows and doesn't that tell you something. Don't change it from the concept, but that is how I feel and evidently all the others that keep asking about the car.

I also heard that the Avenger will be coming back also, as a smaller version of the new Charger. This is also being kept hush hush. I guess Dodge doesn't want to sell cars.

C2456Ron · June 2006

It may be difficult to get that many units on the street per year, with the Weight/HP, and all the other items your listing! The ZO6 Vette is the lowest costing Sports Car on the road today, with not one of the others being able to keep up with it on the Lemans' Series! The Corvette frame is a composite aluminum frame, and the ZO6 cuts the engine cradle off, also the roof portion of the frame and uses Magnesium Frame to replace. It also has most body parts that are replaced from the Corvette with Carbon Fiber, and weights in at 3130 curb weight! It also has 3" flared wheel wells to accept the Goodyear F1 EMT, 325/30/19 rear, 275/35/18 front tires, the street version has a chip to stop the car from going over 200 mph, but the C6-R that they use on the Lemans' Series is much lighter & a lot faster, but still almost stock 427 SMALL BLOCK 505 HP, that is Kicken A** in this series! It has the 14 inch cross drilled rotors with 6 pistons caliper front & 13.4" cross drilled rotors, with 4 piston caliper rear Brakes, to stop the beast once you get it going, and all of this cost money, money that may prevent the new Challenger from ever selling that many units in a years run, IF they add what your proposing! The NAV System is very expensive, I have one myself in my Vette, along with a 7 speaker BOSE Sound system, Heads-Up display w/G Meter, memory seating, Satillite Radio, plus many other items they MAY ADD more $$$! Also I read that they are working on a 7 AND 8 speed Automatic Transmission that WILL be out in a year or 2 with rising fuel prices, which like the Vette will possibly be a Paddle Shift, as I have seen many cars this year with this option! All of this will add to the cost of this car, and that WILL be passed on to the buyer, you can bet on that! You can check my specs that I am using in most any Auto magazine, and it eats the Dodge Viper by a country mile, and only loses to the Ford by a 1 - 2 second margin on the German Race Track that is 2.84 miles long, which was used for this Test! I read this in Edmonds, so this should be very easy to check! Thanx! :shades:
Ron

qbrozen · June 2006

op: 7 automatic (new version as torque is to high for MB 7)

Well, they have no problem putting down over 700 lb-ft with the 5-speed autos in the AMGs, so they could just use that unit.

C2456Ron · June 2006

Carol Who?

Is that a Chic? Kidding! OH you mean the guy that Auctioned off his Big Ford, Serial #000001 all autographed everywhere, @ Barrett Jackson, for I believe 3/4 of a Million $'s (a Charity Auction)! This car has been on the market for 3 or 4 years now, and just like before, it hasn't sold! Ford announced a month or two ago that it was ending the Production of this car @ #600, after all this time you would have thought that they would have sold more of these monster cars! But like the new Mustang & Challenger it too looks almost identical to the original one that was built back in the what? 60's - 70's? But looking just like it's grand father, and selling @ the mere price of $160,000.--, it really don't suprise me that people just are not buying them! Think about this though, an old car, with new components to make it go much faster then it's predissor, but looking just alike as the old one, who wants to pay this much money? Not me, I'm just a Working Stiff also! Just MY opinion, don't expect ANYONE to agree! Ron

rorr · June 2006

"...Just MY opinion, don't expect ANYONE to agree! Ron"

Good.

All I was pointing out to another poster was that YES, there is some minor racing history associated with the Mustang. And Shelby had a few other minor successes back in the 60's.

But if you just want to go off on a diatribe about the recent Ford GT, hey, knock yourself out.... :confuse:

C2456Ron · June 2006

WOW! Harsh isn't it? Diatribe, I thought I was pointing out FACT, not Diatribe! Excuse me! Ron.... :sick:

C2456Ron · June 2006

I don't believe you understood my meaning of the 7 & 8 speed automatic tramsmission! They are doing this for economy not speed, or getting the power to the road. Just like the 6 speed standard transmission, the 5th & 6th gears are just 2 overdrives! If not for the "Skip Shift" & the 6 speed transmission, you would be paying big money for "Gas Guzzler Taxes", which you DON'T pay because of the fuel saving measures with the extra gears & skip shift. I seen a Caddy with the ZO6 engine in it at the Dealer, and it had a $1300.-- "Gas Guzzler Tax" on it! Ron

qbrozen · June 2006

I see.

But doesn't the Caddy (i'm assuming you are referring to the CTS-V) also have the 6-speed and skip shift? oh... wait, no, the CTSV is just the standard vette engine. Which Caddy are you referring to?

C2456Ron · June 2006

Yes! You are correct, it was the CTS-V and it was a "ZO6/405 HP, LS6 Engine", and I do not know why this did not qualify for the "Gas Guzzler Tax" exemption!? Maybe it was the weight of this vehicle, or maybe it is just setup differently, I never did get an answer to this question, but it was clearly marked on the "Window Sticker Price" as being a "Gas Guzzler Tax" $1300.00!

I can't even tell you if it had a "Skip Shift" like the Corvette does, and it is not built in the Bowling Green Plant, not on the Corvette Frame/Suspension, which may ALL come into play in this! But I really cannot answer this honestly, so I will not even try, rather then sound stupid with a bogus answer! I also heard about a Viper (never seen this one myself, just was told about it) with a $6500.-- "Gas Guzzler Tax" on it, again I really cannot say this is true either!

Too many of the High Performance vehicles are being charged outrageous prices for this Fuel Tax, on top of the Luxury tax, that all hurt when you make the intial purchase of these vehicles!

Ron

rorr · June 2006

Hey Ron - whether it was a 'diatribe' or not isn't the point; I'm just trying to figure out why in the heck you were bringing up the Ford GT? Shelby had NO involvement with the development of the current GT.

And the ONLY reason I brought up Shelby in the first place was because another poster was trying to point out the racing history of the old Chrysler 300 and then made a statement to the effect that the Mustang had NO racing history. Why in the heck you felt the need to morph that discussion into critcism of the current Ford GT I have NO idea.

Isn't this the '08 Dodge Challenger topic?

shipo · June 2006

- It is my understanding that the "Luxury Tax" has now expired and as such, no new cars are subject to it (like my last two were).

- While I don't have an issue with the "Gas Guzzler Tax" per-se, I do believe that it should either be applied across the board on ALL passengers vehicles that meet the criteria, or not at all. Case in point, when I got my 530i 5-Speed I considered a 540i 6-Speed, however, there was a GGT of something like $2,000 on that car, even though it was capable of 25 mpg on the highway. The flip side of course was that Excursions and other vehicles of that ilk, vehicles that are lucky to get half of the highway mileage of the 540i, had no GGT to contend with. Do it or don't, I don't care, just make it consistent.

Best Regards,
Shipo

qbrozen · June 2006

Ah, ok, yes, I suppose that would be the last gen Z06 engine, which is only up to par with the new vette's base engine.

The '06 CTS-V is rated at 15/23 mpg.

What mileage does it take to avoid the GGT? Does anyone know?

I believe its an average number they use, so even something that gets great highway mileage might be penalized if the city number is low enough.

C2456Ron · June 2006

Yes, this IS the '08 Challenger Topic, and if I remember correctly I only mentioned the Ford GT on 1 (one) line! Most of what I was saying was about all the options you mentioned you would like to see in the new Challenger, and also want to see 100,000 units on the street in the first year! Now I was only pointing out the ZO6 Corvette, which has most, if not all these options, and will NEVER see that many units on the street in any year at all! If you see that many C6 - ZO6's in the next 6, 7, or even 8 years, I would be extremely surprised! Most of my comments were aimed at the components of these vehicles, and what you would like to see, especially at an affordable price, (the C6 - ZO6 Base Price is $64,000, give or take a dollar or two)! Not much mention was made about the Ford GT, Carrol Shelby, or any other car, except in passing! I do apologize if this offended you, that was NOT my intention! Ron

C2456Ron · June 2006

PLEASE check Post #285, this is the Post I am referring too! Not my next post, which WAS about the Ford GT! Ron

mopar_rick · June 2006

Yoohoo, Dodge are you listening???? Check out Motor Trend July 2006. Ford has the 500 HP GT500, Chevy is already talking about the convertible Camaro. Don't miss the show again. Dodge hasn't made a commitment on the Challenger yet. Where are you for us MOPAR guys. Even if they bring it out with the 6.1L Hemi, that's only rated at 425 HP. It sounds like we're 75 horses short of the GT 500 for the same price. It's also rated faster in the Quarter mile. Us Mopar guys are tired of being the underdog. Does anyone from Daimler Chrysler read this???? You're going to miss the show again.

C2456Ron · June 2006

Hi Rick, I think that you are going to have to use a MUCH LARGER TYPE, so the guys in Germany can read/hear you from here!

Seriously though, I think that the Challenger should come out with a 500 HP Challenger, with a Drop Top! It seems to be back to the old days of the Factory Hot Rods all over again, with NO HP Restrictions!

God Bless them! Keep the Government OFF our Cars!!!!!!!! Don't they have better things to do, like take money from someone or something? I would LUV to see the days of 700 HP on the street, with 28 MPG on the Highway! With 4 Overdrives, I see no reason why they can not do this!?!?!? Ron

C2456Ron · June 2006

Shipo, I believe that vehicles like the "Excursion", and others in that category are exempt from the "GGT", only because of GVW! I once owned a Blazer, that was a 3/4 Ton and NEVER had to go through the "Emissions Test" because of this fact! I am not sure it is still this way, but I am sure that the Manufacturers have Excellent Lobbiest

in DC, that are taking care of business, therefore NOT having to pay penalties on these HUGE vehicles! Of course this is ONLY my opinion, and don't expect anyone to agree! Just food for thought! Ron... :shades:

shipo · June 2006

For my part I don't give a rip if an SUV has a GVW that is high enough for it to be considered a truck. Too damn bad. If it is a passenger vehicle and if it gets crappy mileage, then it should be taxed the same as any other passenger vehicle.

Of course the whole issue of the GGT is something that rankles me to begin with. Personally I don't think it should exist at all, but since it does, then it should be uniformly applied to all passenger vehicles.

Best Regards,
Shipo

C2456Ron · June 2006

Shipo, I'm NOT disagreeing with you, just offering my thoughts on this matter of GGT! When I started driving 4 wheel drive trucks, that is exactly what they were, 4 wheel drive trucks! When the "Yuppies" started driving them, they became an "SUV", and the price doubled, and hasn't stopped going up ever since! Even the Toyota "SUV", isn't a 4 wheel drive, it's a front wheel drive, or atleast that is how they started out as front wheel drive station wagons, not even an "SUV", by the meaning of the term "SUV"! I am willing to bet that 95% will NEVER even see Off Road, or half the owners even know HOW to put them into 4 wheel drive! What would they have done if we still had the Locking Hubs? :P Again, these are only MY observations of 40+ yrs of driving and not meant to upset anyone, nor are they a proven FACT,! Just MY observations! Ron....

ogreman · June 2006

On the weight you're correct, they would need to lotus type effort.

As the quickest way to improve handling, breaking, and acceleration is to loose weight :surprise:. I guess I will have to ask for more DC target than lotus

For the elite business case (15K units) 3500 lbs and mustang model 4000lbs.

I agree that the vette is the model for HP/weight in NA, though I will point out that the electronic options (gps/sounds around) are decreasing in weight/volume and most important power consumption. (except for subs, yes 1000W system is 1000W)

The trannies would be gears 1-5 play, 6 make distance, and the auto will be the same. Any chance of DC pulling something out of the lab for a tranny (CVT?, DSG?)?

I have not seen anything that advances the decision tree, so the only known is that they're mired in 1.7 :sick: and I do know from experience the direct chance of a project being cancelled is related to the length of the project, so start moving now :mad:

Decision tree
1.1 prototype approved, initial business case prepared
1.2 displayed in Detroit Jan 2006
1.3 rave reviews or in worse case alot of us like it
1.4 decision to cost production, supplier asked for quotes mar-apr 06?
1.5 business case updated? possible production location chosen
1.6 car is shown to public in LA area ... apparently car is still lusted for (I kinda read this 2 ways, 1 good management says lets build some hype, or 2 bad, designers screaming at management see they really do love it... hoping for 1
1.7 go / no go DC management if decision before dec 06, then 2008 model (sept 07) or if earlier decision (jun 06) 2007.5 (jan 07) at best .
1.8 Based on 1st year will conv. get green light?
-------------------------------------------------

C2456Ron · June 2006

Ogreman, I do agree that the options I listed do NOT have anything to do with weight to HP ratio, but what was proposed was getting 100,000 units on the street in the first year of production w/these Options! Jesus I only WISH you could have all these options, an extremely light car and ALL at an affordable price, one that would allow the Manufacturer to put out 100,000 units! I would jump on that faster then a $2. H***er!!! I know what my Corvette cost with the options listed, PLUS! I also know what the ZO6 cost, and it comes in a close 2nd to what was proposed, yet I also KNOW that you just will NOT see that many units on the road, IF the Manufacturer uses all these components, and will be forced to charge a huge amount of money! Mercedes Benz will NOT put a vehicle out with what was proposed, and sell it at a loss! If they did, I would probably be first in line for one of these cars!

Although my wife and I both Luv the new styling of the Camaro, and sincerely hope that IS what they put on the road, again, I WILL be first in line for one of those, Fast, Beautiful, Retro, Economical (400 HP LS2 V8, that drops to a 4 cyclinder on the Highway for economy) cars! We both fell in love with this car when we first seen it, the lines are close to that of the '69 Camaro, it has some of the looks of the '69, even the Detailing inside are close to that of the '69 (almost) yet it still looks NEW, '200?. GM Actually says it will be affordable to just about anyone! I no longer need my 4 wheel drive Tahoe/Blazer, I have always had some type of toy to drag behind it but no longer, and have owned it since new, and they DID NOT call it a Tahoe back then, but it was the first year of that Body Style, and try to purchase parts for this beast is incredibly hard. If I go into a Parts store and ask for a part for this truck, as a "Blazer" which it actually is, I always get parts for an "S-10 Blazer", never the 1500 series Blazer! I have owned this truck for 14 years now, it still runs and looks great, but only use it in the winter months now, when I put my Corvette away (I live in New England, not quite Corvette weather year around)! I would much rather have another car to pull behind my RV, so we can travel, and NOT have to take the RV everywhere with us, now that is a DRAG!!! Also I believe that by the time this comes out, we WILL see an 8 speed automatic transmission, to help with fuel economy, MB is already using the 7 speed! Just imagine 4 Overdrives on a Highway, especially using a 4 cyclinder engine! Maybe see 40 MPG, or better, and STILL having the HP when you want to use it!

:shades:

Ron...

C2456Ron · June 2006

PS: I guess I have NEVER grew out of having a lot of HP under my right foot, and possibly NEVER will!

:shades: Ron..........

ogreman · June 2006

Wonder whom else reads these forms

This is from "Automotive News"

LATE NEWS
Challenger decision may come by Oct.
The Chrysler group may decide whether to make the Challenger muscle car as early as the end of the third quarter, CEO Tom LaSorda says. LaSorda on Friday, June 16, said Chrysler has been flooded with positive responses to the Challenger concept, shown at the Detroit auto show in January. story [SUB][$]

Decision time is October 2006

Did we guess the 2 possible business cases?

obtw
Ron I like a well balanced car, with safety first, great breaks, and good handling and reasonable horsepower. Current toy is a CLK 320, not sure what is next :confuse: Looking at CLK 550, but I can wait.

If this gets the go ahead it would make a very nice toy, how ever both the camaro, and saleen/SVT stang are very nice also.

They have a tough decesion, on which markets, how many 15K units high end 55k+ or 100K units mustang model 20K-55K?

Should be neat to see what they pick

rorr · June 2006

"Most of what I was saying was about all the options you mentioned you would like to see in the new Challenger, and also want to see 100,000 units on the street in the first year! Now I was only pointing out the ZO6 Corvette, which has most, if not all these options, and will NEVER see that many units on the street in any year at all! If you see that many C6 - ZO6's in the next 6, 7, or even 8 years, I would be extremely surprised!....."

And etc. and etc.

Uh, ron - I think you have me confused with someone else. I don't recall EVER posting ANYTHING about what options I wanted to see on the new Challenger, production #'s, or anything related to the Z06. :confuse:

I reacted the way I did because it seemed to be totally out of the blue that you started bringing up stuff on the Ford GT. But if you thought you were responding to something I had posted regarding the future Challenger and the Z06, I know understand the confusion.

badness · June 2006

all I can say is that this car is a beauti.,thumbs up.now this look like the old school!!!

WAY TO GO!

m1miata · June 2006

Well that's fine. A Porsche out handles the old Corvettes. Anyway, was just saying that the new Camaro and the new Challenger look too wide and heavy. Just bring back something light, simple, smaller in a pony car for under $21K and I will consider it. Don't need wagon wheels, and a width like a semi-truck. And the 3.5 V6 should do just fine for power and weight balance, which should be close to 50/50 as possible.
-Loren

mopar_rick · June 2006

The Challenger is a muscle car. It's not supposed to be lighter, smaller or narrower with a smaller engine like a porsche. Bring it out looking like the concept and don't mess with it. That's why it's called a muscle car. We have enough weed-wacker powered imports out there now.

m1miata · June 2006

Wrong, it was a pony car. Here are the facts, as in history as provided by Muscle Car Club:
Production:
Challenger Base: 53,337
Challenger T/A: 2,142
Challenger R/T Coupe: 12,747
Challenger R/T Convertible: 1,070
Challenger RT/SE Coupe: 3,679

Engines:
225 I6 145 bhp.
340 V8 275 bhp @ 5000 rpm, 340 lb-ft @ 3200 rpm.
T/A: 340+6 V8 290 bhp @ 5000 rpm, 345 lb-ft @ 3400 rpm.
383 V8 330 bhp.
426 Hemi V8 425 bhp @ 5000 rpm, 490 lb-ft @ 4000 rpm.
440 V8 375 bhp @ 4600 rpm, 480 lb-ft @ 3200 rpm.
440+6 V8 390 bhp @ 4600 rpm, 480 lb-ft @ 2300 rpm.

the car club link

If the car maintains a monster size, wider than a Lincoln Towncar, heavy and sucks lots of gas, while costing a fortune to buy, it will be a limited run car. Which if that is what Chrysler and it's fans want, that is fine too. Sort of a super sized replica car.
-Loren

shipo · June 2006

You missed an engine. The 1970 (and later?) Challenger was available with a 318 2-BBL mated either to an A904 automatic or a 3-Speed on the floor.

Best Regards,
Shipo

m1miata · June 2006

They are listing the first year of Challenger.
Anyway, the point is the small engines, six cylinder ones included, made up a lot of sales. It was the last entry into the pony car class of cars. The Challenger could start with the 3.5 V6 250HP engine, which is plenty of power. Then add in a monster engine for the drag stripe and the bragging rights bunch.
-Loren

Dodge Challenger 2008 and Later

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles