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Hyundai Sonata vs. Honda Accord vs. Toyota Camry vs. Ford Fusion

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Comments

  • goodegggoodegg Member Posts: 905
    These car companies know who buys the most cars, and it ain't in the 25 - 35 age bracket. They position to the 40-50 year olds.

    Do your research before throwing out your college paper online. These car companies do. They also know the 4 cyl will sell 4x as many as the 6 cyl. Again dashing your seat of the pants automobile marketing proposition.

    Ford has to bring the 4 cyl. out now - or the Fusion will be doomed to the average car pile. They're not in the game yet in this highly competitive sector (not a niche).
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,324
    Time will tell if it will be #1, if ever. Lots of competition there with some mighty loyal buyers. The main problem Ford will have with the Fusion is that for about the same $ you can get the Mercury Milan. I configured the high end I-4 (because I want a stick) for both cars with the accessories I wanted and according to edmunds the sticker and invoice prices for the Milan was $26 and $285 more respectively and the TMV price was actually $445 less than the Fusion.

    With everything the Milan has over the Fusion why get the Fusion if the Milan costs practically the same?

    Ford either priced the Fusion to high or the Milan to low.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • chrisfordchrisford Member Posts: 55
    Fusion/Milan same package different packaging. I too like the Milan but feels more of an emotional connection with the Fusion.
  • giantkillergiantkiller Member Posts: 273
    # 1 in in what? Recall?
    "Fusion is smack in the middle of a pimpout ride and a family sedan."

    What the ? This is hilarious! :D
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,324
    While close they are not exactly the same package. It has been reported here that the Milan uses higher quality material inside, plus it comes with far more standard equipment. Also the sales lady at the local mercury dealer mentioned to me that the Milan has stronger doors than the Fusion.

    All that at the same price puts Milan on my list and drops the Fusion off.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • 1racefan1racefan Member Posts: 932
    "All that at the same price puts Milan on my list and drops the Fusion off."

    Like the hottie in the commercial says, "You gotta add Mercury to your list."
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I had a '95 Mystique. I refer to it as the Mystake. It was in the shop much of the first six months I owned it for various problems and recalls. But it did have good ride and handling--hmm, kind of like the Fusion. That was my first Ford. It will probably be my last Ford.
  • spinzerospinzero Member Posts: 91
    Has anyone posted this yet?

    Vehicles made by Hyundai Motor Co., Honda Motor Co., DaimlerChrysler AG and Subaru of America Inc. earned top honors in new crash tests of sport utility vehicles, minivans and sedans. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration gave five stars Monday in front and side-impact protection to the Hyundai Sonata sedan and Tucson SUV, Honda Odyssey minivan, Mercedes-Benz ML Class SUV and Subaru B9 Tribeca SUV.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/21/AR2005112100955.html

    Now can we all agree that the Sonata is as safe as anything else on the road? :)
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    The NHTSA tests are not the standard to by which you should judge vehicles. In fact the test are the easiest in the world. They even state that they have to redo their side impact test to conform more to real conditions.

    The IIHS tests are more difficult and in fact are more similar to those used in the rest of the world, including the inhouse testing done at MB, BMW, Toyota etc. Go to the IIHS website to see what the differences are.

    It doesnt mean that the vehicles are poor performers it's just that the NHTSA test doesnt measure real world conditions real well. The IIHS tests on the other hand have real world uses. It's on these tests that Allstate, GEICO, USAA etc base their premiums..not the NHSTA tests. The IIHS tests put more stress on the vehicles and the occupants inside.
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    To add to what kdhspyder said, NHTSA ratings only includes forces towards the thorax and pelvis even though head injuries cause the most deaths in real world side impact crashes. Also, like kdhspyder said The IIHS tests put more stress on the vehicles and the occupants inside. The barrier does not strike the dummies head, it is too short to actually stimulate a SUV/Pickup hitting the vehicle.

    I would wait for IIHS to come out with its results.
  • plasmid4plasmid4 Member Posts: 7
    If a car gets subpar scores on the NHTSA crash tests, which according to others are "less stress" to the vehicles, what kind of logic do you follow in assuming that they would performm better in the more stringent and more "stressing" IIHS crash tests? If a sonata gets 5 stars for the NHTSA and the accord for example (i'm assuming... it didnt get 5 stars) gets 3 or 4 stars, using common sense if you place the same vehicles in a more stringent and stressing test I would expect the sonata to do better as well.
  • bimmer4mebimmer4me Member Posts: 266
    "Maybe in time Fusion and Sonata will enter the rental fleets"
    The Fusion has hit the rental fleets, on my way to work I pass an airport and I saw a truck load of Fusions being unloaded at one of the car rental agencey storage areas. I was really surprised to see this happen so soon.
  • rscherbrscherb Member Posts: 46
    I had many misgivings about the Fusion until I saw one. It is a beautiful car. No question about it! The car is well thought out and actually looks like something most of us would really like to drive.
    But if you don't believe in Ford, and trust me I understand what you all mean, you should check out the Lincoln Zephyr. It is one of the nicest luxury/sport cars i've seen in a long time.
    If you want to see a car that has lots of problems but gets nice reviews, go to the 2006 nissan altima discussion group. Lots and lots of problems with the Altimas.
    As far as quality goes, no question about it that Ford has finally made great strides. In fact the American cars get better quality ratings by far than the European manufacturers.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    The Fusion/Milan twins are likely directed to two different segments. In two articles I've read the Milan seems to be aiming at the 30-something single professional woman who wants a sylish accessory in her garage. The Fusion may be more mass market to men and to families with small children.

    The problem is that the great handling and upscale look of the Fusion as a V6 misses more than 2 Million buyers every year ( including recent-Used purchases )
    The top 5 autos sold this year will all be essentially 4c.

    The Top vehicle sales in the US
    Thru Oct '05 2005 vs 2004 (,000's units)
    1
    2
    3 Camry .. 368K vs 361K
    4
    5 Accord .. 319K vs 325K
    6 Corolla .. 292K vs 282K
    7 Civic .... 258K vs 263K
    8
    9 Altima .. 221K vs 200K

    Taur/Sab (F/M ) .. 202K vs 254K
    Focus .............. 164K vs 181K
    Mustang ........... 139K vs 103K

    300 .................. 119K vs 87K

    Sonata ....... 95K vs 92K

    The market has evolved and is voting with their feet toward fuel-efficient, reliable utility vehicles for everyday driving.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    what kind of logic do you follow in assuming that they would performm better in the more stringent and more "stressing" IIHS crash tests?

    I dont think one can draw conclusions from the NHTSA test to the IIHS test. They are very different.. different speeds, different crash barriers, side tests are WAY different ( refer to each site ).

    My point only was that the NHTSA is of little value really other than to make a very broad judgement... say 'good' or 'bad'.

    Consider this possible scenario too since the NHTSA is a governmental agency with multiple constituencies.
    Vehicle A from super new Mich plant gets raves in the tests
    Vehicle B from soon to be refurbished Ohio plant gets OK

    Vehicle C from the oldline plant located in the district of Commerce Committee Chairman Henry Auto couldnt pass the test if the barrier was JELLO. Houston we have a problem.

    Governmental agencies have been known to be political.

    The IIHS constituents are the Insurance Companies which actually have to pay out money for damages, injuries and deaths. They better be accurate.

    I put more weight on the IIHS tests.
  • driverdmdriverdm Member Posts: 505
    First things first. Let's be nice people. Secondly, I'd advise people ro not open your mouth saying people don't know anything when you obviously know very little. Do my research? Who are you telling, maybe you should do yours.

    http://media.ford.com/newsroom/feature_display.cfm?release=21316

    I'll save you the trouble of reading it by just quoting:
    "The Fusion's target consumer is an industrious dreamer with an entrepreneurial spirit," said Dan Geiger, brand experience manager for JWT. "They are people from 25 to 39 years of age who may have 'taken a different road.' "

    Uh oh sounds like you don't know what you are talking about. And who said a 4-cylinder couldn't have good drving dynamics?

    Sorry if I was unkind in anyway but saying things like "Do your research before throwing out your college paper online" isn't nice either.
  • driverdmdriverdm Member Posts: 505
    Okay now you just weren't reading what I wrote. As I clearly stated the Generation Y crowd is larger than any generation besides the Baby Boomers. Have you looked at the median age of your average baby boomer lately? No offense but they aren't getting any younger. The are moving on to more expensive cars and that market is dominated by die hard Camry fans that may recall bad experiences with early domestics. Why not go after the Gen Y people, 25-35 year olds?

    Who said only people who buy Toyota are 435+,... well Toyota did. It was in the reasoning behind why they made Scion. Your median age for your Camry buyer is in the late 40s.

    And you equate "niche" with small. Indeed a niche market can be very large, depending on how you have defined that niche. BMW caters to a niche too, and so does Lexus. And I did not pull that age target out of my [non-permissible content removed], I pulled it out of the mouth of the brand experience manager for JWT. The advertising group for the Fusion. :P
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    "They are people from 25 to 39 years of age who may have 'taken a different road.' "

    :surprise:

    Are they targetting let's say those who have chosen an 'alternate lifestyle'? Hmmm interesting turn of phrase there.
    ;)

    This if for certain though from that statement. They are not targetting the high volume center of the market.
  • driverdmdriverdm Member Posts: 505
    Right, they are targeting the future high volume center of the market where Toyota has openly admited that it does not have a hold on. Just think in two model years, the market they are targeting will be the highest volume of the market.

    Also I think when you say high volume, who mean highest volume because the 25-35 year old crowd are still a high volume segment. I forget how many millions of buyers are in that "niche".

    That alternative lifestyle comment was a good one though, I''ll give you that. :D
  • goodegggoodegg Member Posts: 905
    Another high volume segment is high school and college kids. But they don't have the money to buy cars like the 40 somethings. Ford doesn't have time to muck around with positioning for an upcoming segment. They needed to go after the 49 somethings with something other than an Explorer/Expedition. Which is why I agree that they need to get a 4 cylinder automatic out quick.

    The 07 Camry is around the corner, the new Sonata is out, Honda is tough to beat again (and I'm sure they'll one up Camry when an 08 Accord comes out) and Ford seems uncommited to this segment.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Also I think when you say high volume, who mean highest volume because the 25-35 year old crowd are still a high volume segment. I forget how many millions of buyers are in that "niche".

    Yes in that 25-40 y.o. range. Your comments about age are accurate for this segment. But what's missing is how are these midsized vehicle being used.

    Here is the essence of it. People do not like to drive. It's an imposition on whatever else they have going on in their lives. If they are home with the family; if they are going to work in LA/NY/Beltway traffic; if they are going home from work in LA/NY/etc; if they have 2 small children in carseats with one on the way on the way to the folks 200 mi away; driving is a chore.

    I see this on a daily basis:
    'Just get me there safely and as inexpensively as possible. If one of the kids gets sick in the back eating a chocolate that has been in the seat cushions for 5 months I dont want to have to worry about the car's condition because we are going to run it into the ground anyway.'

    Unless this 25-35 Gen is a lot better off than previous Gens.. and they are not.. they want/need good basic transportation hence the move to more and more 4c. The Camry/Corolla/Altima numbers above continue to reflect this.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,601
    I'm surprised at all the preference for 4 cyl engines. In the congested north east, where I live, the extra punch of a 6 cyl is often needed for getting into traffic or maintaining speed on hills. 6's seem much more popular here. But that's based on conditions where I am.

    4's do make sense where they supply adequate power for driving conditions since they get better gas milage. I had a new '71 Volvo, 4 cyl, 121 CID, 130 HP (back then almost unheard of to get more than 1 HP per CID). That car had plenty of guts and got 31 MPG at 80 MPH. I also had an '84 Chrysler 2.6L which was "OK" when new, but couldn't get out of its own stink after 8K miles.

    A lot also depends on the type of driving one does. Many short trips and 10K per year doesn't add to a big difference in gallons per year. Similary, 20K per year, mostly highway miles doesn't make much of a difference. It's the number of miles per year and the mix of local to highway miles that make a meaningful difference.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I like the 4-cylinder because I don't see the need to put a sub-7 second 0-60 car into the hands of my teenaged drivers in the family (one now, two soon).
  • goodegggoodegg Member Posts: 905
    4 cylinders are cheaper, easy to maintain, easy to resell, and in the case of the Accord, the 4cyl had fantastic performance. I bought an 02 for my business and the diff between a 4 and 6 wasn't that noticeable. So I kept the money. Plus with another car in the family (an Odyssey),as most families, its OK to have an econocar in the mix.

    The car jumps great when you rev it to 4-5000 rpms - more than enough power to pass/merge even with 4 passengers.

    Lease expires soon. Looking at a TL, G35, and maybe a loaded 07 Camry - wouldn't rule out a Accord EXV6 Navi.
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    I have had three Camrys, all with the four-cylinder, and they certainly have adequate horsepower for merging safely into traffic. I prefer the lower upfront cost plus the better gas mileage.

    And think of it another way: my '05 Camry has 160 hp (lowered to 154 using the new SAE methodology). My former '90 Mercury Sable 3.0 L V6 "Vulcan" had 140 hp. And going way back, my mother's former 350 cid (5.7L) V8-powered '73 Chevy Monte Carlo also had only 140 hp!
  • giantkillergiantkiller Member Posts: 273
    "One of Toyota's main problems is that young people simply refuse to buy them. By young I am not talking 18 year olds, I am talking the 25-35 year old crowd."

    This is your statement. Now give me a link or info that says 25-35 year old people dont buy Toyota. Just because some JWT people tell you that this is the Fusions target market doesnt mean that this age braket doesnt buy Toyota. Show me a link.
    Dont equate Ford Fusion with "niche" as in luxury. Ford is player in entry midsize sedan. Dont you remember Mazda 6? That's a "niche" brand for this market. You know their market share? Tiny. :P
    Do your research again. Keep on diggin, then maybe you might wanna go ahead and jump in there.
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    Almost all cars (not necessarily trucks) now pass the NHTSA frontal test with 4 or 5 stars, and there really isn't much significance between 4 vs. 5 stars.

    The IIHS frontal offset test is more demanding of structure than the NHTSA test, but even here, most vehicles now earn at least an Acceptable rating and most are Good.

    The NHTSA side test is a joke, as pointed out above, because the impacting barrier isn't high enough to strike the dummies' heads. And the star ratings don't take into account forces on the head.

    The IIHS side test is much more stringent. I'll predict the Sonata, at least, won't do as well as the 2004-06 Camry and 2004-06 Accord with side airbags.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    4Four 4c Camry's since '90. The first two I drove all over the Northeast Corridor from Boston to Balt and in and out of NYC for 6 yrs. @ 40-50K mi/yr. No problems ever. The last two have been here in the Mid Atl region with a lot less stress and much less traffic... also @ 45K mi /yr.

    I havent even had your new 2.4L yet.

    Ahhh but the HSD 2.4L next July will be something special.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    The NHTSA side test is a joke, as pointed out above, because the impacting barrier isn't high enough to strike the dummies' heads. And the star ratings don't take into account forces on the head.

    The IIHS side test is much more stringent. I'll predict the Sonata, at least, won't do as well as the 2004-06 Camry and 2004-06 Accord with side airbags.

    By coincidence I was on the IIHS website tonight ( www.iihs.org ) looking at the new minivan ratings posted last week with the article that goes along with the ratings.

    In the minivan article it clearly shows and explains how the two tests differ. It's why the NHTSA has stated that they have to change their testing procedures.
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    "The Fusion's target consumer is an industrious dreamer with an entrepreneurial spirit," said Dan Geiger, brand experience manager for JWT. "They are people from 25 to 39 years of age who may have 'taken a different road.' "

    As was noted previously, Ford had better hit a home run with the Fusion, meaning high-volume sales. The company is in a world of hurt, not as bad as GM, but not much better either.

    The Milan has stronger doors than the Fusion? Geesh, those salespeople will say anything to close a deal!

    The 3 cars, Fusion, Milan, and Zephyr, are identical structurally.
  • giantkillergiantkiller Member Posts: 273
    "The 07 Camry I don't think will change my mind. It is still big and bloated."

    Thats it. You bet it wont change your mind. Considering that you've decided for yourself that the Camry is big and bloated and yet you like the Fusion which is "BIGGER, WIDER,LONGER than the present gen Camry. Whose bloatted now? Dring dynamics, drivers car , niche player, trying hard to be a sports/performance car and yet bigger in all aspect to the Camry. I said it before and I will say it again your bias and your talking out of your... Nevermind. One more thing, do your research.
  • iwantonetooiwantonetoo Member Posts: 86
    Test drive the G35, it is a drivers car. Not as luxurious as the TL, but rwd and that Nissan V-6, mmmm, sweet. :D
  • driverdmdriverdm Member Posts: 505
    I have seen the next generation Camry. It's pictures are all over the internet so again, I think you are the one that needs to do your research. The Fusion is big but it does not look bloated. It actually has to do with the design of the front fenders on the Camry but that convo is for another day.

    Toyota published when it introduced Scion the probelms it had with the younger demographics. Not just real young, but also people under forty. As I said the median age of your average Camry buyer is in the forties. I am not going to go look it up like I did for the Fusion demographics, I am not your research assistant. With the Fusion, I proved what I say is true. I am a grown man, and that does not make things up and that my friends is good enough.

    The Fusion needs that four cylinder engine, BAD. There are no arguments there. They should be showing up any day now though so it isn't that far behind.

    I think, as I said before, that Ford is trying to tap into a younger market. Correction, your 34 year old does have the money to buy a Fusion, especially entry level. The pricing isn't that high. You can price a Jetta or Corolla or Civic up to that level with very few options. I'm 24 and I am looking to buy one soon. You don't have as many people with that kind of money as the older demographic. But you can sell an old person a young man's car but not vice versa. That is evident in the sales of the Element. I am not going to provide you that link either, I don't have the time. I still think Ford will try to sell the Fusion to your average Camry buyer, it's competitive enough. I am just saying that the demo it is marketed to right now is - year olds and it is a decent idea.

    Giatkiller you are really stretching. "Driving dynamics, drivers car" was said in the Edmunds movie on the Fusion from the Detriot Auto Show where it debuted? Is Edmunds pulling it out of their... too? I am not going to provide you that link either, you can find it yourself in the autoshows section. I have a life... after all I am 24 :)
  • driverdmdriverdm Member Posts: 505
    I had mentioned before that I spent several weeks with one. I love that car. Absolutely love it.
  • driverdmdriverdm Member Posts: 505
    I know I said I wouldn't but it was easy enough. Don't question a man's, or this man's word again. I think I have proven I only speak what I know.

    "Scion is Toyota's effort to connect with younger customers, who increasingly perceive the Toyota brand as a Japanese Buick. Scion seeks the 16-to-30-year-old demographic. Its product line will lead with the boxy bbX and a second product to be announced in January at the Los Angeles Auto Show.

    Toyota executives know that a big part of the Scion challenge will be to get the target audience to walk in the door of a Toyota dealership in the first place - exactly what they are avoiding doing now."

    And another one:
    "The Scion channel is aimed at lowering the average age of Toyota buyers by drawing more under-25s into the tent. The automaker now gets only 18 percent of its sales from the 20-to-34 age group, compared with 36 percent for Mitsubishi, 31 percent for Nissan and 28 percent for Honda."

    And another one:
    Regardless of how it sounds, we’ll give props (as members of the target market might say) to Toyota for trying. The company’s average buyer age of 48 is on par with other full-line manufacturers’, but by its own admission, Toyota’s image could—in the eyes of Generation Y, anyway—stand a massage.

    And the best one:
    "Marketing-speak translation: People under 30 find Toyota rather boring and if the company doesn’t find a way to change that, the coffers won’t look too good in 20 years. It’s Toyota’s shot at the opposite end of the Toyota-Lexus spectrum; if all goes as planned, the three brands will form a tripartite Toyota empire for the future."

    Took only 5 minutes to find. For all the folk that said I didn't know what I was talking about. I like apologies. They are nice and make me feel good. :)
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    well done.. and all of thatis accurate from one who sells Toyotas and Scions.

    Having had such an exchange recently you might consider what it's like trying to pull your jacket from the jaws of a pit bull. Is it worth the effort in the end ;) .

    Not having driven the Fusion all I can go by is the reports of others like yourself that it is fun and fine to drive similar to an Accord... superior to the present Camry. The new Camry may be different if it has the Avalon engine but that remains to be seen. The key problem to generating massive conquest sales from HonYotaNis still is the lack of a 4c people mover which I heard is slated for Jan/Feb.

    For 6 months Ford basically has been telling the potential cross-shopper 'We've got nothing for you. Go across the street'. You made a good point about selling an older man a younger mans car but not vice-versa. Similarly for the economy minded auto-is-a-tool person selling them an upscale V6 is near impossible. ( You have to sell me the V6 lower than the 4c because the fuel economy over 10 yrs is worse. )

    This is real life too. In the freshening of the Camry in 2004 Toyota had to bring out a 'Standard' model which had less features than the initial basic LE because a massive part of the market didnt want Keyless, power seats, full spare, even floor mats and power windows and locks. 'Yota couldnt economically change the latter so they left it. 50% of our inventory now are these stripped down basic 4c boxes... and I drive something similar - a 2000 CE .. only I bought it even less expensively as a Certified used model.

    I understand where this massive segment of the market is coming from. This 'standard' Camry or DX Accord is like a workman's tool. In 10 years ( or 200K miles in my case ) it will be scraped and dented and have given me enough use that I will be sad to throw it away. But it's only a tool to get me from A to B 45000 times a year.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    The Fusion needs that four cylinder engine, BAD. There are no arguments there. They should be showing up any day now though so it isn't that far behind.

    They're here.

    A bunch of new Fusions showed up the other day at two dealers near me. I checked the Ford Direct inventory and about half of the Fusions on the lots are now I4 models with the ATX and one dealer has two with the I4 and MTX.

    Search for McCrackin Ford if you want to see the MTX copies and Shults Ford if you want to see the ATX copies. Note that there are three Shult's dealers.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,324
    The Milan has stronger doors than the Fusion? Geesh, those salespeople will say anything to close a deal!

    First off since it was obvious that I was just looking and not interested in buying I doubt the sales lady was saying anything to close a deal.

    Secondly the sales lady said that the Milan has side guard door beams which the Fusion doesn't have. Take that for what its worth.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • acgoodacgood Member Posts: 9
    I've also noticed that a couple dealerships here in the Baltimore/Washington area also have quite a few of the Fusion auto i4's on their online inventory. Are they really going to start arriving in decent quantity in the immediate future? I've seen some speculation that it might be a month or two still. Any insight would be appreciated.

    Thanks for all the helpful info on this and other forums for novices like myself. What are people's thoughts for those of us where the Fusion/Sonata 4c is the top of our price range, and therefore our choices are new 4c Fusion/Sonata, Corolla/Civic, or low-end or used CamCord? To me that could be a very different scenario than the people comparing 25k versions of these cars.
  • goodegggoodegg Member Posts: 905
    Not sure what your point is bro. 2 of these 4 cars being compared are in the top of the heap saleswise. One (Sonata)is trying to hang near there too. Fusion? How does it get into this club? It's not by catering to the 20 somethings. This is an exclusive club too. Gotta show some huge sales #'s to get in it. And if Ford's hawking the younger crowd to accomplish this....they're gonna lose.

    I think Ford knows this. The Fusion isn't gonna sell anywhere near CamCord. And 75% of CamCords are 4 cyl.
  • goodegggoodegg Member Posts: 905
    Look at the 06 Civic. The MT car of the year.
  • w9cww9cw Member Posts: 888
    snakeweasel wrote: "Secondly the sales lady said that the Milan has side guard door beams which the Fusion doesn't have. Take that for what its worth."

    The sales lady is wrong. All vehicles sold in the USA today have side-impact door beams, and have had for many years. I would run as fast as I could from that Mercury dealer! Obviously, she doesn't know what she's talking about, and is blasting a competitors product - another sign of a bad salesperson. I guess she doesn't realize the Milan and Fusion roll off the same production line!
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    That was my point too. Snakeweasel, your posts are thoughtful and to the point. It's the salesperson I was badmouthing.

    No vehicle to my knowledge can pass the current federal side impact standard without some type of door beam. Without door beams, they would almost certainly have Poor structure in the IIHS's more demanding side impact test.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    Are they really going to start arriving in decent quantity in the immediate future? I've seen some speculation that it might be a month or two still. Any insight would be appreciated.

    I'm guessing here, but I would have to say yes. The Fusion and Milan I4 with ATX copies were delayed because the transmission manufacturer was slow to get going. I believe mid-November was the target for them to hit the lots so it looks like they're back on schedule.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    If it were my choice I'd go with the Sonata, as it is more car for the money than the Civic or Corolla and for the same money as a Fusion offers more safety equipment--e.g. ABS and side curtains are optional on the Fusion, and you can't even get stability control on the Fusion while it is standard on the Sonata. If you don't really need a car as big as the Sonata, my 2nd choice would be the Civic as it has more standard safety equipment than the Corolla and has a better driving position (which you'd need to check for yourself), plus I like how the Civic looks better than the Corolla. Another good choice in the compact class, since you are looking at the Civic and Corolla, is the Mazda3.

    I would not go for a used car if I could get a nice car like the Sonata or Civic for the same money, and know the car hasn't been abused and also get the full warranty (a very long warranty in the case of the Sonata). Also the older a car is, the less advanced its safety equipment and structural design--although if you get a used CamCord of the current generation with the side bags/curtains, ABS, and extended "certified" warranty those are safe cars too.
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    I agree on your safety points, but the Mazda3 should be out on safety grounds because it scored a Poor on the IIHS side impact test (without side airbags), and Mazda didn't pony up for the optional test with side airbags. Not a hopeful sign.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    That's a good point, but OTOH, we know nothing about how the Sonata, Fusion, and Civic will do on the IIHS tests, so does that rule those cars out, too?

    I would not buy the Mazda3 (or any of these cars) without side bags and curtains.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,324
    Look at the 06 Civic. The MT car of the year.

    Hey it shares the same honor as these greats

    1960 Chevrolet Corvair
    1971 Chevrolet Vega
    1972 Citroën SM
    1983 Renault Alliance

    ;)

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,324
    she doesn't know what she's talking about, and is blasting a competitors product - another sign of a bad salesperson.

    Well she may or may not know what she is talking about, she said a few other things about it that basically went in one ear and out the other. As for that other sign of a bad sales person I disagree, I asked her what the differences were between the two and she, at least tried to, explain it.

    As I said I am just repeating what the sales force said.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • exalteddragon1exalteddragon1 Member Posts: 729
    you get more features with a fusion for the same price. Ford made it have less standard features to bring the base price down below the competition. I think when comparatively equipped, with a few discounts you will get more features than a sonata or camry.

    The lack of stability control, however is a minus. How many people actually drive that hard? Whatever, I bet ford would put it in sooner or later.

    stability controll not withstanding, the only feature I'd want is a manumatic. That would make those six gears fun! The fusion also has the best fuel economy and the only 6 speed auto of the bunch. I think its the most aggressive looking as well.
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