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Hyundai Sonata vs. Honda Accord vs. Toyota Camry vs. Ford Fusion
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Comments
As with your repairs, the dealer did the first one under warranty, but Chrysler paid for it.
Go to www.auto.consumerguide.com
I'm done on the site for a while.
Nice chatting with all of you.
1998 – 2002 Accord has significant problems with transmission/driveline and moderate problems with engines.
1998 – 2002 Camry has significant problems with engine.
1998 – 2002 Ford Taurus has moderate problems with engines and moderate problems with accessories.
1998 – 2001 Sonata only has moderate problems with engines while 2002 Sonata has an excellent record.
Man....why would people buy any car after reading this recall drivel...
The 2006 interior is great. It is on the same platform as the Fusion but the Fusion is more rigid, larger, and rides softer. I have a 4c, I am looking to move into a new car with a V6. If this hadn't been so, I would keep the Mazda.
I put 95k with no issue but the transmission slipped when i by accident poured the wrong transmission fluid to top off.
After flushing the slip never returned and it made me realize that the trans was so sensitive ...other than that i had no issues ./.. zero
After 5 1/2 yrs i sold it and now have a mazda 6.. in fit and finish i have to rate the older sonata better the mazda has 1 squeaks ...but other than that the car is awesome...i
have 5k now and love the zoom zoom attitude of the car.
now the accord with v6 02-03,accord cls ,TL had major transmission problems and the crv fire incident was like 5% of the crv has issues.
so now preception of honda is stronger and hence was able to get away with it ..plese cheack acuratl , mdx and accord forums for the trans failures
http://auto.consumerguide.com/Auto/Used/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/2379/Act/usedcarreviewre- - liability/
I'm still interested in reading about any "major powertrain problems" that would affect Hyundai's ability to finance warranty claims, if you happen to find any. BTW, here is the comparable information for Ford's midsized cars of the same era, the Contour and the Taurus. To me, it looks like the lists are longer, but you can verify that for yourself:
http://auto.consumerguide.com/Auto/Used/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/2159/Act/usedcarreviewre- - liability/
http://auto.consumerguide.com/Auto/Used/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/2191/Act/usedcarreviewre- - liability/
http://auto.consumerguide.com/Auto/Used/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/2043/Act/usedcarreviewre- - liability/
Personally I don't care about the warranty breaking any car company's bank. The warranty is there to protect you and me, the consumers. That is the purpose of a warranty.
I bought my Hyndai with faith in their product, part of which was based on Hyundai's backing of the reliability of their product.
If Hyundai backs it reliability longer than others and there is a problem covered, good for me. If another company's warranty is for a shorter duration and a problem falls to the consumer, good for the company, not the buyer.
I don't care about Ford's list, I told you they were not stellar. Try reading with your eyes open next time.
Just about every major problem on 1999/2000 Sonata's is a powertrain problem. Just because it's not a recall, doesn't mean it isn't a major problem.
Give me a break, engine replacements on both the 4 and 6 cylinder and tranny replacements on both the manual and automatic. Those sound kind of major to me.
Get over it!
I could suggest that you read with your eyes open also. There was no engine replacement mentioned at all for the Sonata. Do you like making things up? That seems to be a habit with you, starting with making up details on JD Power reports. There were five problems mentioned in all for the 1999-2000 Sonata. Two had to do with the powertrain. That's 40%--far from "just about all".
Also, you haven't shown any evidence that these problems mentioned on the Consumer Guide are "major problems" as you originally asserted. We don't know how many cars were affected by these problems. There might have been 100 transmissions replaced. We don't know. One of the problems mentioned was a CD player that needed to be reset by removing a connector in the fuse panel for ten seconds. Another problem caused gas pumps to click off prematurely. Are these "major problems" too?
Maybe you could get over trying to make more out of these kinds of problems than is there. No one said that the Sonata is flawless. It's also not the reliability disaster that you seem to think it is, and in fact compares favorably to the other makes in this discussion for reliability.
The website mentions a problem with the 4 and 6 cylinder engines and a problem with the automatic and manual transmission. That is four powertrain problems.
Here are quotes from the website:
On the 19996 Sonata Automatic problem, "Hyundai was replacing the tranmissions under warranty."
On the 1999/2000 Sonata 2.4L engines: "Replacement required."
That's all, I'm not lying or making it up.
Also, if you want to do a little more research, call up several Hyundai dealers and ask about the V6 engine replacemetn problem and the manual transmission problem. They are real.
Also, I never said the Sonata was flawless and I never said is was a disaster. Those are your words.
Have a good day!!
Signing off!
Do you really consider a canister purge valve and a mass airflow sensor part of the powertrain? Well, I don't. I think of powertrain as the engine and transmission, differential, that kind of stuff--not emissions stuff. I can kind of understand the MAF sensor being considered part of the powertrain, but not the canister purge valve. Anyway, when they say "replacement required" it's not an engine replacement--it's the replacement of the canister purge valve. Why would you think the entire engine would be replaced because of a problem in a canister purge valve?
I don't dispute that these problems are real. But what the problems amount to is this:
* One problem on '99s with the CD player that was fixed by removing a connector in the fuse box for ten seconds. Not a biggie, would you agree?
* One problem with auto transmissions on '99s that requires a replacement transmission under warranty. This is obviously a significant problem, but there is no indication how many vehicles were affected--10 or 10,000? So we don't know the affect on Hyundai financially, in supporting the warranty claims. That was the focus of your point about Hyundai's warranty being a financial drain on the company (paraphrasing), correct?
* One problem on '99-'00s with a restriction in the vapor recovery line that causes gas pumps to click off prematurely. Is this a major problem--really costly for Hyundai to fix? Doesn't seem to be, to me. No engine or transmission replacement needed here.
* One problem on '99-'00s with the stock canister purge valve that causes hard starting or rough idle on 2.4L engines, and may require replacement of the canister purge valve--not the engine. Doesn't sound to me like a huge problem either.
* One problem with manual transmissions on '99-'00 Sonatas that requires installation of a "kit" to fix--not a replacement transmission. Since manual transmission Sonatas are rare in the U.S., this also should not be a big drain on Hyundai financially.
* One problem (and recall) related the MAF sensor on 2.5L '99-'00 Sonatas, which required only the rerouting of the MAF sensor's wiring harness to correct. No new parts, no engine or transmission replacement, no drain on Hyundai financially.
* One problem (and recall) related to the side airbag wiring on '99-'01 Sonatas, which was fixed by more securely attaching the air bag wiring harness and connectors to the seat frame. No new parts (maybe some fasteners), no engine or transmission replacement, no drain on Hyundai financially.
So including the two recall actions, I still count two powertrain-related problems, one which required a transmission replacement, and no engine replacements. But I don't include mass airflow sensors and canister purge valves as "powertrain." Two out of seven is not "almost all" in my book. Even if we include the MAF sensor as part of the powertrain, that's only 3 out of 7.
Since this is a comparison discussion, I invite you to do a similar analysis on the problems for the same years of Ford, Honda, and Toyota mid-sized cars and see what conclusions you draw about the reliability of Hyundais in general and the Sonata in particular, compared to the likes of the Contour, Taurus, Accord, and Camry.
Here is the government web site that allows anyone to lookup vehicle recalls. If you use it to look up recalls for a specific year vehicle, it will show you the recalls, what the recall was for, and the number of that vehicle involved in the recall.
SaferCar.gov Recall Site
I can't speak for the other vehicles you mentioned in your post, but the transmission problem with the Accord affected between ONE and TWO percent of the vehicles. Over 98 percent of owners had NO problems with their transmissions. Now certainly, when you sell 350-400k per year, that 1-2% is a sizable number. But like everything else, those with problems will speak up much more than those without problems. People generally don't visit discussion boards just to write "I have a XXXXX and I have no problems--I love it and just wanted everyone to know!" Some things get blown out of proportion.
I have a 2002 Accord and I have no problems -- I love it and just wanted everyone to know.
There.
Everyone who has had a bad experience with a car will hate that car brand, no problems = love the car brand. Hopefully will be lucky again. Cheers!
Happy Holidays!
MAF
There (did I do that right?)
thegrad
I agree with you that personal experience with cars will tend to dictate what we think about the brands. I've had positive experiences with my Hondas, Toyotas, Nissans, Dodges (Caravans), and Hyundais, and negative on Chevy and Ford/Mercury. So guess which brands I would tend to buy again without hesitation? Also, I think dealer experience has a lot to do with it. I had wonderful service for 13 years on my two Caravans, and I think that had a lot to do with my positive ownership experience on the vans--even though they had more than their share of recalls and other glitches. The dealer service on my Mercury, though, was worse than the problems on the car--which is to say it was pretty darn bad. I did get fed up with my original Hyundai dealer, for service ineptitude and attitude, but am pretty happy with the dealer I use for service now.
I like the Sonata but find it hard to accept the seat's attributes. Gotta sit in it every day for the next 4-5 years. Wondering about your perceptions.
Toyota vehicles are well respected for being very reliable and having outstanding longevity.
Toyota vehicles are well respected for being very reliable and having outstanding longevity.
Wow, that's the second most mileage I've ever heard of on a car, second to something I read in Motor Trend, 1.1 Million in ten years (a carrier service person's car)
I don't know, most people I know regard brakes as routine maintenance. That is unless you have to replace rotors (or drums) or do something else to the system like replace the master cylinder. But brake pads are a normal wear and tear item that needs to be replaced regularly.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Gregorios Sachinidis, a Greek taxi driver who holds the known record of 2,852,000 miles in his 1976 Mercedes-Benz 240D.
(URL)
It is not difficult to find MB with one million miles.
Irv Gordon's 1.8 Million Mile Volvo
(URL)
Hard to see the maintenance difference, especially since the Sonata has 2 more years and 24k more miles of basic warranty and 40k more miles (and five more years, but irrelevant for Edmund's TCO) of powertrain warranty.
As far as I know, the Accord recommends service at every 7500 miles for normal driving and 3750 miles for aggressive driving. The Sonata recommends service every 3750 miles. Could the difference be due to Edmunds calculating based on the 7500 recommendation?
Or do Hyundai dealers charge more for maintenance than Honda dealers?
I doubt Hyundai dealers charge more for maintenance than Honda dealers. I've been to both and they are both pretty high. However, I usually pay less than $20 for an oil change (with a coupon discount) at my Hyundai dealer and just paid $67 for the 15,000 mile service on my '04 Elantra (including a coupon for a free oil change) which included extra charges for replacing some light bulbs and the air filter (recommended at 15k for "severe service"). That doesn't seem high to me. The Sonata should be similar.
PM is money well spent. Thats about all you'll need to do with a Honda (unpaid endorsement). Or Toyota. My Taurus always seemed to have some kind of nagging issue - but not too bad a car overall. I'd rather pay more, have the better resale value, and enjoy a better car for the 4-5 years I'm in it. CamCords deliver that.
Well, Camcords definitely deliver on the first one (pay more), may or may not deliver on the second (too early to tell with the '06 Sonata what the resale will be in 4-5 years vs. the '06 Accord and Camry), and as for better car, that is true for you and your needs but seems highly debatable given the range of opinions expressed here and in third-party reviews about the three cars.
Not quite sure where the Wal-Mart comment came from. I always get my Hyundais serviced at the dealer. In and out in an hour even for a 15k service plus a little more. Why go to a quickie-lube when I can get it done by people who are liable for the warranty on the car for no more money?
I do know the CamCords always hold their value. That won't change.
Probably because the Camry has so many fleet sales.
Yeah, PM is always worth it. Plus, if you have your dealer do it you can ask about TSB's(if applicable) and get some of their marginal coffee and....something I love to do...BS with the salespeople about upcoming Kia vehicles, what's hot, what's not, etc. You just don't get the same flavor if you go to Joe's SuperLube down the street.
Then again, sometimes I'm in a Joe's SuperLube kind of mood, too. It just depends. By and large you're doing your car and yourself a good deed by getting it's PM done at your dealer's service department. One other thing...keep meticulous records of all work done on your car, repairs or maintenance or even a light bulb. Keep all of your receipts. You'll be glad at trade-in time that you did.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I wasn't even considering the Sonata until I read this forum. Then I figured that I owed it to myself to at least test drive the vehicle. Boy I am glad I did. I couldn't believe the improvements that Hyundai has made through the years.
Just wanted to say thanks for this discussion and that I hope others find it as informative as I did. With Edmunds help I know I have picked the right vehicle for me and I have felt zero Cognitive Dissonance since buying the Sonata.
Go see the 2006 Sonata Forum.
warranty. Complete brake job at 40K. I also had an
extended warranty for 80K for my transmission, which
is one of the reasons I got rid of it at 75K. Didn't
want to spend a couple grand or more at 81K. Oxygen
sensor replaced twice, under warranty.
Accords are good cars, but all cars can have problems.
You are lucky.....so far.
My daughter's 2000 Explorer with 3000 miles
on it, 2 months old, started on fire in the
engine compartment, totalling the car. Ford
and the dealer did nothing for her, told her to call
her insurance company. Due to depreciation, she
lost her tradein, two months of payments, and still
owed 3000 to cover the loan. Great car!
I would never own a Fix Or Repair Daily again.
But, that's just me.