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Hyundai Sonata vs. Honda Accord vs. Toyota Camry vs. Ford Fusion

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Comments

  • littlezlittlez Member Posts: 167
    Same platform. Ford stretched the chassis and softened the ride a little. That's one of the things I like better about the Fusion. In the 6 you feel every bump and crack in the road. Not so with the Fusion/Milan.
  • littlezlittlez Member Posts: 167
    Actually, I made a comment about the long warranty potentially biting Hyundai if their quality was not there.

    As with your repairs, the dealer did the first one under warranty, but Chrysler paid for it.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,601
    I know that Chrysler paid for the first tranny replacement under warrantee, however the warantee had an $100 deductible after some time/milage that was lower than when my car's problem occured.
  • littlezlittlez Member Posts: 167
    Most of these problems were not listed as recalls. Somehow, early on, some imports were able to avoid recalls. I don't know how, but they did.

    Go to www.auto.consumerguide.com

    I'm done on the site for a while.

    Nice chatting with all of you.
  • cxccxc Member Posts: 122
    Perception or reality?. Here are reliability history data from MSN.com
    1998 – 2002 Accord has significant problems with transmission/driveline and moderate problems with engines.
    1998 – 2002 Camry has significant problems with engine.
    1998 – 2002 Ford Taurus has moderate problems with engines and moderate problems with accessories.
    1998 – 2001 Sonata only has moderate problems with engines while 2002 Sonata has an excellent record.
  • goodegggoodegg Member Posts: 905
    Well my 2002 Accord has had NO problems whatsoever and my wife's 2000 Camry (recently traded for an Odyssey) never had a thing go wrong with it. Never. Got it? Good.

    Man....why would people buy any car after reading this recall drivel...
  • driverdmdriverdm Member Posts: 505
    The 6 is magnificent, I can't say anything else. It is a little harsher on the bumps but not very much so. I've had mine for two years and love it. Parts of the styling are getting old to me, but other than that, it is perfect.

    The 2006 interior is great. It is on the same platform as the Fusion but the Fusion is more rigid, larger, and rides softer. I have a 4c, I am looking to move into a new car with a V6. If this hadn't been so, I would keep the Mazda.
  • banditboybanditboy Member Posts: 54
    I had one of those 99-00 sonata and i have taken it fireroads and a bit of off roading in VT ...so was abused.
    I put 95k with no issue but the transmission slipped when i by accident poured the wrong transmission fluid to top off.
    After flushing the slip never returned and it made me realize that the trans was so sensitive ...other than that i had no issues ./.. zero

    After 5 1/2 yrs i sold it and now have a mazda 6.. in fit and finish i have to rate the older sonata better the mazda has 1 squeaks ...but other than that the car is awesome...i
    have 5k now and love the zoom zoom attitude of the car.

    now the accord with v6 02-03,accord cls ,TL had major transmission problems and the crv fire incident was like 5% of the crv has issues.

    so now preception of honda is stronger and hence was able to get away with it ..plese cheack acuratl , mdx and accord forums for the trans failures
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Here is the exact link in case anyone else is interested in looking at "trouble spots" for the 1999-2001 Sonata:

    http://auto.consumerguide.com/Auto/Used/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/2379/Act/usedcarreviewre- - liability/

    I'm still interested in reading about any "major powertrain problems" that would affect Hyundai's ability to finance warranty claims, if you happen to find any. BTW, here is the comparable information for Ford's midsized cars of the same era, the Contour and the Taurus. To me, it looks like the lists are longer, but you can verify that for yourself:

    http://auto.consumerguide.com/Auto/Used/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/2159/Act/usedcarreviewre- - liability/

    http://auto.consumerguide.com/Auto/Used/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/2191/Act/usedcarreviewre- - liability/

    http://auto.consumerguide.com/Auto/Used/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/2043/Act/usedcarreviewre- - liability/
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,601
    I'd be worried about the first vehicles with the long warranty breaking Hyundai's bank on warranty repairs.

    Personally I don't care about the warranty breaking any car company's bank. The warranty is there to protect you and me, the consumers. That is the purpose of a warranty.

    I bought my Hyndai with faith in their product, part of which was based on Hyundai's backing of the reliability of their product.

    If Hyundai backs it reliability longer than others and there is a problem covered, good for me. If another company's warranty is for a shorter duration and a problem falls to the consumer, good for the company, not the buyer.
  • littlezlittlez Member Posts: 167
    backy:

    I don't care about Ford's list, I told you they were not stellar. Try reading with your eyes open next time.

    Just about every major problem on 1999/2000 Sonata's is a powertrain problem. Just because it's not a recall, doesn't mean it isn't a major problem.

    Give me a break, engine replacements on both the 4 and 6 cylinder and tranny replacements on both the manual and automatic. Those sound kind of major to me.

    Get over it!
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    There's no need for insults just because you don't like to read facts related to a topic you brought up.

    I could suggest that you read with your eyes open also. There was no engine replacement mentioned at all for the Sonata. Do you like making things up? That seems to be a habit with you, starting with making up details on JD Power reports. There were five problems mentioned in all for the 1999-2000 Sonata. Two had to do with the powertrain. That's 40%--far from "just about all".

    Also, you haven't shown any evidence that these problems mentioned on the Consumer Guide are "major problems" as you originally asserted. We don't know how many cars were affected by these problems. There might have been 100 transmissions replaced. We don't know. One of the problems mentioned was a CD player that needed to be reset by removing a connector in the fuse panel for ten seconds. Another problem caused gas pumps to click off prematurely. Are these "major problems" too?

    Maybe you could get over trying to make more out of these kinds of problems than is there. No one said that the Sonata is flawless. It's also not the reliability disaster that you seem to think it is, and in fact compares favorably to the other makes in this discussion for reliability.
  • cxccxc Member Posts: 122
    I am glad that neither your 2002 Accord nor your 2000 Camry has been one of the problematic vehicles in the MSN current statistics for more than one million Accord or Camry.
  • littlezlittlez Member Posts: 167
    "You haven't shown any evidence that these problems mentioned are major problems" and "two had to do with powertrain" and "there was no engine replacement"

    The website mentions a problem with the 4 and 6 cylinder engines and a problem with the automatic and manual transmission. That is four powertrain problems.

    Here are quotes from the website:

    On the 19996 Sonata Automatic problem, "Hyundai was replacing the tranmissions under warranty."

    On the 1999/2000 Sonata 2.4L engines: "Replacement required."

    That's all, I'm not lying or making it up.

    Also, if you want to do a little more research, call up several Hyundai dealers and ask about the V6 engine replacemetn problem and the manual transmission problem. They are real.

    Also, I never said the Sonata was flawless and I never said is was a disaster. Those are your words.

    Have a good day!!

    Signing off!
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I have done my research, thanks. Maybe you would like to do a little more, however...

    Do you really consider a canister purge valve and a mass airflow sensor part of the powertrain? Well, I don't. I think of powertrain as the engine and transmission, differential, that kind of stuff--not emissions stuff. I can kind of understand the MAF sensor being considered part of the powertrain, but not the canister purge valve. Anyway, when they say "replacement required" it's not an engine replacement--it's the replacement of the canister purge valve. Why would you think the entire engine would be replaced because of a problem in a canister purge valve?

    I don't dispute that these problems are real. But what the problems amount to is this:

    * One problem on '99s with the CD player that was fixed by removing a connector in the fuse box for ten seconds. Not a biggie, would you agree?

    * One problem with auto transmissions on '99s that requires a replacement transmission under warranty. This is obviously a significant problem, but there is no indication how many vehicles were affected--10 or 10,000? So we don't know the affect on Hyundai financially, in supporting the warranty claims. That was the focus of your point about Hyundai's warranty being a financial drain on the company (paraphrasing), correct?

    * One problem on '99-'00s with a restriction in the vapor recovery line that causes gas pumps to click off prematurely. Is this a major problem--really costly for Hyundai to fix? Doesn't seem to be, to me. No engine or transmission replacement needed here.

    * One problem on '99-'00s with the stock canister purge valve that causes hard starting or rough idle on 2.4L engines, and may require replacement of the canister purge valve--not the engine. Doesn't sound to me like a huge problem either.

    * One problem with manual transmissions on '99-'00 Sonatas that requires installation of a "kit" to fix--not a replacement transmission. Since manual transmission Sonatas are rare in the U.S., this also should not be a big drain on Hyundai financially.

    * One problem (and recall) related the MAF sensor on 2.5L '99-'00 Sonatas, which required only the rerouting of the MAF sensor's wiring harness to correct. No new parts, no engine or transmission replacement, no drain on Hyundai financially.

    * One problem (and recall) related to the side airbag wiring on '99-'01 Sonatas, which was fixed by more securely attaching the air bag wiring harness and connectors to the seat frame. No new parts (maybe some fasteners), no engine or transmission replacement, no drain on Hyundai financially.

    So including the two recall actions, I still count two powertrain-related problems, one which required a transmission replacement, and no engine replacements. But I don't include mass airflow sensors and canister purge valves as "powertrain." Two out of seven is not "almost all" in my book. Even if we include the MAF sensor as part of the powertrain, that's only 3 out of 7.

    Since this is a comparison discussion, I invite you to do a similar analysis on the problems for the same years of Ford, Honda, and Toyota mid-sized cars and see what conclusions you draw about the reliability of Hyundais in general and the Sonata in particular, compared to the likes of the Contour, Taurus, Accord, and Camry.
  • tenpin288tenpin288 Member Posts: 804
    Just as an FYI:

    Here is the government web site that allows anyone to lookup vehicle recalls. If you use it to look up recalls for a specific year vehicle, it will show you the recalls, what the recall was for, and the number of that vehicle involved in the recall.

    SaferCar.gov Recall Site ;)
  • rcc8179rcc8179 Member Posts: 131
    1998 – 2002 Accord has significant problems with transmission/driveline and moderate problems with engines.

    I can't speak for the other vehicles you mentioned in your post, but the transmission problem with the Accord affected between ONE and TWO percent of the vehicles. Over 98 percent of owners had NO problems with their transmissions. Now certainly, when you sell 350-400k per year, that 1-2% is a sizable number. But like everything else, those with problems will speak up much more than those without problems. People generally don't visit discussion boards just to write "I have a XXXXX and I have no problems--I love it and just wanted everyone to know!" Some things get blown out of proportion.
  • goodegggoodegg Member Posts: 905
    People generally don't visit discussion boards just to write "I have a XXXXX and I have no problems--I love it and just wanted everyone to know!"

    I have a 2002 Accord and I have no problems -- I love it and just wanted everyone to know.

    There.
  • fankhauserfankhauser Member Posts: 3
    Did research for months & months, test drove everything in the 20K price range, Volvo S40 too small, Lincoln Zephyr (drove like my father's old Taurus just shifted 6 times instead of 4) , Dodge Charger (not impressed) Anyhow, had excellent service from a 2001 Hyundai Elantra even though it was a first model year, made several trips to Seattle with it and it did a better job than the Infiniti I traded in for it. I admit I was a little leary when I bought the 2001, but yesteray bought a new Sonata LX and feel very confident in the purchase. It drove, sat, looked better than the Accord and Camry I had test drove also, loved the dealer. Enjoy the car. Much of the discussion has been about recalls & such on previous years, Had more problems with an Infiniti G-20 than I did with the first Hyundai. Time will tell....So :shades:

    Everyone who has had a bad experience with a car will hate that car brand, no problems = love the car brand. Hopefully will be lucky again. Cheers!

    Happy Holidays!

    MAF
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I have a 1996 Accord with 155,000 miles on it. One fan motor replaced, tires and a battery (and regular maintenence). That's it. I just love it and wanted everyone to know.

    There (did I do that right?)

    thegrad
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Looks like you actually peeked into the $30k range, with the Zephyr. Hope you enjoy your new Sonata LX.

    I agree with you that personal experience with cars will tend to dictate what we think about the brands. I've had positive experiences with my Hondas, Toyotas, Nissans, Dodges (Caravans), and Hyundais, and negative on Chevy and Ford/Mercury. So guess which brands I would tend to buy again without hesitation? Also, I think dealer experience has a lot to do with it. I had wonderful service for 13 years on my two Caravans, and I think that had a lot to do with my positive ownership experience on the vans--even though they had more than their share of recalls and other glitches. The dealer service on my Mercury, though, was worse than the problems on the car--which is to say it was pretty darn bad. I did get fed up with my original Hyundai dealer, for service ineptitude and attitude, but am pretty happy with the dealer I use for service now.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I am really impressed that in 10 years and 155k miles, you are still on the original brakes, exhaust system, and other parts that tend to wear out on a car, with your Accord. That car must be built like a tank! Do you do a lot of highway driving?
  • goodegggoodegg Member Posts: 905
    Let me ask you. How do you feel about the driver's seat in the Sonata LX? I checked one out again yesterday and confirmed my initial impression that the seat bottom won't tilt up enough. This is the only car that seems to have this "problem".

    I like the Sonata but find it hard to accept the seat's attributes. Gotta sit in it every day for the next 4-5 years. Wondering about your perceptions.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    It was driven in rush hour interstate driving for the first 120,000 miles of its life, about 80 mph 70 miles round trip. new brakes were required at 135,000 miles for the front, original ones on the rear. Original exhaust system just inspected when the second timing belt was put on. Forgive me for failing to mention this, I realize brakes aren't "routine" maintenence, but in my mind, I had appperntly put it that way! it has had one tune-up, one new set of spark plugs, and is on its third set of tires (68k on original michelins, 70k on Coopers, now on Goodyear Integrity). The only fault with the car was the fan motor failure, something the dealership said they don't see often, but it cost over 300 dollars...not cheap, but the only repair due to malfunction of the car (happened at about 140k miles). it has a few more rattles than it did when new (of course), but it is still tight enough to feel incredibly safe, even though my new 2006 is world's ahead of it in power, room, and interior quiet.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    That is still pretty darn good, just new front brakes. How is the body holding up? Although I suppose in Birmingham you don't need to worry about the effects of road salt like I do. :( I see quite a few '94-'97 Accords driving around my town. I almost bought one, a '95 LX Coupe, but leased a Mystique instead. In hindsight, that was a Mystake. Who knows, I might still be driving that Accord coupe!
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Road salt is not an issue here, like you said! No rust at all; in fact, the clearcoat is still fully intact, with only minor paint fade (parked outside all its life). Rear brakes are drums, so they of course last longer, and with little stop-and-go driving, they should last a while more. New shocks are next in line, as a have one with a rattle now.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    And is owned by the nephew of a friend. Was originally owned by a person who put mostly road miles on it.
    Toyota vehicles are well respected for being very reliable and having outstanding longevity. ;)
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    1987 Camry with 460,000 miles on the odometer and is owned by the nephew of a friend. Was originally owned by a person who put mostly road miles on it.
    Toyota vehicles are well respected for being very reliable and having outstanding longevity.


    Wow, that's the second most mileage I've ever heard of on a car, second to something I read in Motor Trend, 1.1 Million in ten years (a carrier service person's car)
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,290
    I realize brakes aren't "routine" maintenence,

    I don't know, most people I know regard brakes as routine maintenance. That is unless you have to replace rotors (or drums) or do something else to the system like replace the master cylinder. But brake pads are a normal wear and tear item that needs to be replaced regularly.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,290
    Back when I was in high school a friend of mine was given a 5 year old Volvo from his uncle. Twenty some years later he still has it with a little over 600k on it.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • cxccxc Member Posts: 122
    Here are kings of long-run cars:

    Gregorios Sachinidis, a Greek taxi driver who holds the known record of 2,852,000 miles in his 1976 Mercedes-Benz 240D.
    (URL)
    It is not difficult to find MB with one million miles.

    Irv Gordon's 1.8 Million Mile Volvo
    (URL)
  • jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    Accord to Edmunds' TCO, the Accord has lower maintenance costs and lower insurance costs than the Sonata. Anyone know why this is so?
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I don't know how insurance is figured, but may have something to do with the fact that the IIHS tests aren't out yet on the '06 Sonata, and the previous Sonata didn't do that great compared to the Accord.

    Hard to see the maintenance difference, especially since the Sonata has 2 more years and 24k more miles of basic warranty and 40k more miles (and five more years, but irrelevant for Edmund's TCO) of powertrain warranty.
  • jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    The cost of maintenance difference is based on routine maintenance. Cost of repairs is a separate category.

    As far as I know, the Accord recommends service at every 7500 miles for normal driving and 3750 miles for aggressive driving. The Sonata recommends service every 3750 miles. Could the difference be due to Edmunds calculating based on the 7500 recommendation?

    Or do Hyundai dealers charge more for maintenance than Honda dealers?
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Hyundai recommends service every 3750 (?) miles only due to "severe service".

    I doubt Hyundai dealers charge more for maintenance than Honda dealers. I've been to both and they are both pretty high. However, I usually pay less than $20 for an oil change (with a coupon discount) at my Hyundai dealer and just paid $67 for the 15,000 mile service on my '04 Elantra (including a coupon for a free oil change) which included extra charges for replacing some light bulbs and the air filter (recommended at 15k for "severe service"). That doesn't seem high to me. The Sonata should be similar.
  • goodegggoodegg Member Posts: 905
    I'd rather spend the extra $10 at the Quick Changer and be out in 30 minutes than spend 2 hours in WalMart. Does that mean my maintenance cost is higher than yours? Probably.

    PM is money well spent. Thats about all you'll need to do with a Honda (unpaid endorsement). Or Toyota. My Taurus always seemed to have some kind of nagging issue - but not too bad a car overall. I'd rather pay more, have the better resale value, and enjoy a better car for the 4-5 years I'm in it. CamCords deliver that.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I'd rather pay more, have the better resale value, and enjoy a better car for the 4-5 years I'm in it. CamCords deliver that.

    Well, Camcords definitely deliver on the first one (pay more), may or may not deliver on the second (too early to tell with the '06 Sonata what the resale will be in 4-5 years vs. the '06 Accord and Camry), and as for better car, that is true for you and your needs but seems highly debatable given the range of opinions expressed here and in third-party reviews about the three cars.

    Not quite sure where the Wal-Mart comment came from. I always get my Hyundais serviced at the dealer. In and out in an hour even for a 15k service plus a little more. Why go to a quickie-lube when I can get it done by people who are liable for the warranty on the car for no more money?
  • goodegggoodegg Member Posts: 905
    Not being anti Hyundai, anti Sonata, or anti WalMArt. Just my normal pro Accord. PM costs what it costs. I don't think one (good) car costs more than another.

    I do know the CamCords always hold their value. That won't change.
  • jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    Camry resale isn't that great. Accord and Altima resale is notably higher.

    Probably because the Camry has so many fleet sales.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    People are smart. Vehicles used in fleets or rentals are often abused and it is difficult to know if the vehicle was a fleet or rental. :sick:
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    those are pretty low costs for a 15,000-mile service, man. I'd say your dealer is doing you right, just by looking at those numbers.

    Yeah, PM is always worth it. Plus, if you have your dealer do it you can ask about TSB's(if applicable) and get some of their marginal coffee and....something I love to do...BS with the salespeople about upcoming Kia vehicles, what's hot, what's not, etc. You just don't get the same flavor if you go to Joe's SuperLube down the street.

    Then again, sometimes I'm in a Joe's SuperLube kind of mood, too. It just depends. By and large you're doing your car and yourself a good deed by getting it's PM done at your dealer's service department. One other thing...keep meticulous records of all work done on your car, repairs or maintenance or even a light bulb. Keep all of your receipts. You'll be glad at trade-in time that you did. :)

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • booyahcramerbooyahcramer Member Posts: 172
    So... are they gonna fix the driver's seat any time soon? Kinda annoying. Hopefully the Azera will not suffer the same affliction. Its in my price range and so far it looks like it'll give Accord a run for its money.
  • 94hawkskin94hawkskin Member Posts: 116
    I recently purchased a Sonata over the Camry. I feel like the Accord and the Camry are both fine vehicles. Overall, after test driving the Camry LE with no options and the Sonata GLS I4 with no options, it was a no brainer. The Sonata felt just as good if not better in all categories as the Camry, but for about 4,000 less. Plus the Sonata offers all the extra safety features and alloy wheels standard. I honestly feel that if the cars were the same price, that I would still chose the Sonata, but with the extra savings there was really no decision to make.

    I wasn't even considering the Sonata until I read this forum. Then I figured that I owed it to myself to at least test drive the vehicle. Boy I am glad I did. I couldn't believe the improvements that Hyundai has made through the years.

    Just wanted to say thanks for this discussion and that I hope others find it as informative as I did. With Edmunds help I know I have picked the right vehicle for me and I have felt zero Cognitive Dissonance since buying the Sonata.
  • jojoejojoe Member Posts: 81
    You have made a very good decision.We have the new v6 Sonata as a few of our friends now have.Haven't had as much fun driving in years. Love the shiftronic and sporty car feel in a family car.Congratulations and have fun!
  • goodegggoodegg Member Posts: 905
    Do you think the driver's seat bottom tilts up enough for you?
  • zen2zen2 Member Posts: 226
    "People generally don't visit discussion boards just to write "I have a XXXXX and I have no problems--I love it and just wanted everyone to know!"

    Go see the 2006 Sonata Forum. :)
  • zen2zen2 Member Posts: 226
    So, you were one of the lucky ones. In my 2000 Accord V6, at 36,500 miles, my power steering pump seals went. 900 bucks. Had seat belt sensor repaced 3 times, under
    warranty. Complete brake job at 40K. I also had an
    extended warranty for 80K for my transmission, which
    is one of the reasons I got rid of it at 75K. Didn't
    want to spend a couple grand or more at 81K. Oxygen
    sensor replaced twice, under warranty.

    Accords are good cars, but all cars can have problems.
    You are lucky.....so far.
  • zen2zen2 Member Posts: 226
    Yes, and Ford makes some very bad vehicles.
    My daughter's 2000 Explorer with 3000 miles
    on it, 2 months old, started on fire in the
    engine compartment, totalling the car. Ford
    and the dealer did nothing for her, told her to call
    her insurance company. Due to depreciation, she
    lost her tradein, two months of payments, and still
    owed 3000 to cover the loan. Great car!

    I would never own a Fix Or Repair Daily again.
    But, that's just me.
  • lightfootfllightfootfl Member Posts: 442
    Sorry to say that my experiences with Ford warranty, & roadside service proved out to be worthless. They basically did nothing, and I ended up having to pay out of my own pocket for their Ford's mistakes or problems or whatever you want to call them. One was resolved by me after 2 days with new battery, the other was I paid to replace total headlight assembly (moisture in headlight). Plus had to replace complete front assembly passenger side, due to "possibly" hitting pot hole. Needless to say, I want nothing to do with Ford or their warranty.
  • goodegggoodegg Member Posts: 905
    Lets see the 2006 Sonata forum in a couple 3 years. It'll have similar tales as the one you spin.
This discussion has been closed.