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Hyundai Sonata vs. Honda Accord vs. Toyota Camry vs. Ford Fusion

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Comments

  • pocono35pocono35 Member Posts: 89
    I live near a Hyundai/Mitsu dealer here in NEPA. The Hyundai dealer here recently expanded his lot to hold the truckloads of Sonatas they are bringing in.
    It doesn't matter what one says about fleet sales vs. retail sales, but at the end of 2006 when over 150,000 Sonatas are sold vs. about 100,000 in 2005...and the Sonata is the #3 import sedan (0ver the Altima), well, the dispute is ended and Hyundai has made the Sonata a contender. They also have billion$ in sales to boot.
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    MT, Car and Driver.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I have the C/D review, and I can't find the negative comments on the design of the HVAC/audio/dashboard. There were some negative comments on the pointers on the gauges, but I don't see how that relates to HVAC/audio/dashboard design.
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    That this 07 Camry SE found in all the pictures was a MERE 30 MINS from my apartment.

    That Camry was at Toyota of Greenville! I was just there last week!

    I can't believe i missed out!!!! Darn.
  • oldjoeoldjoe Member Posts: 132
    I love it..."according to the people from the nether lands, cars with ESC have a 35% less accident rate"....hahgahhahahahahahahahahah! That is the stupidest quote of any group I have ever seen. "Cars with MaryJane in ther cabin result in less than 35% getting pulled over by the fuzz"....hahahaha! Funny day here on the farm!
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,290
    I always wondered how you can quantify things that never happen. And how you know that other things didn't contribute to things not happening.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    I can think of something stupid in this forum, but that quote wasnt the first to come to mind.

    ~alpha
  • tenpin288tenpin288 Member Posts: 804
    Cars with MaryJane in ther cabin result in less than 35% getting pulled over by the fuzz"....hahahaha! Funny day here on the farm!

    How much of that have you smoked today, oldjoe? :shades: :P
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    We need to get back to the subjects here and leave these insinuations out of here - please.
  • ontopontop Member Posts: 279
    Sitting here looking out the window into the parking lot and I see Civic, Expedition, Accord, Accord, Explorer, Accord, Civic, 325, Accord, Pilot, 300M, Avalon, 330, and can't see any further down the line.

    Do people love Hondas around here or what ? Honda's got such a great reputation that it'll take a huge sustained effort from say, Hyundai, to put a dent in it's share.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    We are comparing the Accord to the Sonata, the Camry and the Fusion. This isn't the place to debate how people view Honda the manufacturer as a whole. Thanks.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    I don't want to remove posts, but I just removed one and will remove any others that do not stick to the subject. We have a News & Views board where all kinds of topics are underway and that's where you folks who want to debate the manufacturers' overall outlooks need to be looking. Here we are simply comparing the Sonata, the Accord, the Camry and the Fusion. That's all we're talkin' 'bout. :-)

    Thanks, I appreciate your cooperation going forward.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Rumor has it that Toyota is developing an 8-speed automatic for its upcoming Lexus LS line, and is likely to be passed down to Toyotas, albeit later, after the "new-technology premium" has been milked by the top-line Lexus sedan. I remember the days of the three-speed automatic being fairly common, and I've only been a car-nut since I was 8 (I'm now 18), so what is to come in the next ten years? I will go out on a limb, and say that the CVT-type of transmission with pre-programmed shift detents for manumatic shifting will be much more common. Any thoughts on the issue?

    PS: I believe I read that Lexus will have the 8-speed in the new "10-Best" issue of Car and Driver, for those interested in the full article.

    thegrad
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    That's very interesting, but not what we are discussing here. It's another line of conversation that should be pursued on our News & Views board.

    Please folks - we need to get back to comparing the Sonata, the Accord, the Camry and the Fusion - or we need to wrap this up if we're done with that subject line.
  • goodegggoodegg Member Posts: 905
    Accords are popular here too(duh). The 07 Camry should spur Camry sales. Wonder if they're having a lull in sales as they phase out the 06s. The 07 Camry board is full of info on what seems to be a great car.

    Been considering the Sonata LX but I think I'll wait til the new Camry comes out and compare. I think its got way better styling. Sonata is mechanically good but the styling suffers.

    The 06 Accord needs updating.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    The "rumor has it" post was made to show advances that Toyota is making, perhaps starting a question: How many gears does the best family sedan need? Maybe compare trannies of these cars? I know the Fusion leads the class with a 6-speed Auto, while the rest make do with 5-speeders (some 4-cyl models have 4-speeds). The Accord leads the pack in the small world of manual tranny family cars, with an available 6-speed manual V-6 sedan, making it the acceleration leader by far (under 6 sec to 60mph). I was hoping to incite such a discussion since things had slowed a little, here.

    Thanks for consideration, and for leaving my post,

    thegrad
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    these next 3 weeks are nearly the best selling weeks for Camry's in the whole year. We are loaded to the gills ready for the Christmas rush.. LOL
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,601
    How many gears does an A/T need? My '05 Sonata has 4 and cruises at about 1700 to 2200 rpm, depending on terrain, when driving about 40 mph. It doesn't shift into 4th until going 35 mph with moderate pedal pressure. On a level road it will hold 4th gear down to about 1500 rpm.

    The extra gears, in any of these cars, don't seem to have much value except for high speed cruising. At lower speeds, extra gears may be counter-productive, causing the engine to lug in order to save minimal rpm's in an attempt to get a fractional improvement in mpg.

    For local driving, maybe 5 speeds is better than four, maybe Fusion's 6 speeds is better than 5. It all depends on how the tranny is matched to the engine. I wouldn't want my car to change gears everytime my speed changed by 5 mph in local driving. At highway speed an extra gear for every 10 mph could be nice.

    My last stick shift was a '71 Volvo 1800--4 speed + overdrive. Had to drive it at at least 2000 rpm, otherwise it would lug and foul the plugs. 4th gear @ 50 MPH was 2000 rpm, overdriver @ 70 mph was 2000 rpm. It was painful driving at 55 or 60 when the national speed limit was 55.

    The "tranny fishing" mentioned earlier regarding the '06 Sonata may be a case of the engine turning too few rpms for the speed driven. Extra gearing at the lower end may contribute to that.
  • zen2zen2 Member Posts: 226
    Sorry, not my intent. I gues my point was just a little
    too subtle, even for our esteemed host.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,601
    This isn't related to the product but to public opinion. Ford cancelled advertising in "gay" publications due to public pressure. Now Ford is getting pressure from "gay" groups.

    This type of pressure from either side is not good. Let Ford, Hyundai, Honda & Toyota, etc. make and market their cars without political pressure. Let the public decide which car they prefer. All car companies want to improve their cars to help them sell more cars and make more profit.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Repeat after me: Sonata-Accord-Camry-Fusion. We're going to get shut down if we keep veering off topic, and this is a forum that I really enjoy! Topics like this, and the transmission one (Toyota's alleged 8-sp), can easily be tweaked to specifically apply, for example-

    Advertising- it will be interesting to note how this impacts Ford, though I expect it will be not by much. Perhaps they should have explored the venue for the Milan, keeping the Fusion more family oriented. Could have been a competitive advantage- I'm not aware of any such advertising for the Camry, Accord, or Sonata.

    ~alpha
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,290
    Sonata-Accord-Camry-Fusion

    Sonata-Accord-Camry-Fusion

    Sonata-Accord-Camry-Fusion

    That being said having looked at Accord, Sonata and the Milan and my preliminary thoughts were that they are pretty much equal except that the seats in the Accord were uncomfortable.

    Sonata has it on price but I am not sure you can get leather seats and a stick and I know that sticks only come with 4 bangers.

    The Milan gives me most of what I want except for a V-6 with a stick.

    Now with the Accord I can get the whole nine yards including the stick on the V-6 but as I said earlier I find the seats rather uncomfortable and the price is a few thousand more than the Milan or the Sonata.

    Still haven't looked at the Camry.

    So far I am really leaning towards the Sonata, but just might go with the Milan.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • lightfootfllightfootfl Member Posts: 442
    Sorry, I don't know where this should go. I looked for a spot, but didn't find one.

    To Pat, and all of the other hosts on here. Thank you for the tremendous job that you are doing. I know that it is sometimes frustrating, and may lead to early balding, due to the hair pulling, and also sudden abnormal growths on the head, due to the head banging. At any rate I truly appreciate this site provided for us by Edmunds, and wanted to thank someone for it. Also, I like the tools part, where I can check on my recent posts.. I sometimes forget what or where I said something, not because of old age, it must really be the fault of the new technologies. :)
  • 03accordman03accordman Member Posts: 671
    I was pointing out that I felt the same issue with the Fusion that MT now commented on. Most of the time it is you who gets riled if people do not agree with you.

    You may or may not agree, it is this kind of cost cutting that has hurt the Ford and GM to the extent that they are close to filing bankruptcy.

    COming back to the Sonata, I have read numerous reviews on the car, and there have been positive and negative comments as would be for any car tested by a variety of sources. I was pointing to one that I felt agreed with me.

    On another note, when MT comments something that you don't agree to, you go "shame on people not agreeing to you and MT' and on the other hand you quote CD who praised the Sonata and ask me to quote pubklications that have negative comments on the Sonata? How hypocritical can you get????

    If publications have no meaning to you, then include all, not just those that that disagree with you.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Relax, ok? Take note of the emoticons that people often use in these discussions to indicate that our comments are light-hearted, like this: ;)

    The purpose of a "XXX vs. XXX" discussion like this is to have a place to offer opinions on these cars, and disagreement is a part of it. So there's no need to get bent out of shape because someone disagrees with you--"they jumped all over me...". I don't get "riled" when people disagree with me. I do get frustrated when some people don't know the difference between fact and opinion, and turn the disagreeements into personal attacks. I also get a little peeved when people state a generalization as a fact, but get upset when someone else asks for some corroboration.

    Anyway, the reason I asked you to name three publications that had commented negatively on the Sonata's HVAC/audio/dashboard design is because you stated as a fact that lots of reviews had been negative on that point. I've read a lot of reviews on the Sonata and I can't recall lots of reviews that were negative there. If you don't want to back up your statement, fine.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Bored at work, here are some stats- Maybe Ford (and all the others) are REALLY missing out by not targeting this population with the new sedans.

    -The average gay audience is male and 36 years of age.
    -They are THREE times more likely to be college graduates and typically bring home SIX times the average national income
    -When asked if they would prefer buying products specifically targeted to their demographic, over 80% said yes.
    (Source: Fraser Seitel, The Practice of Public Relations)

    I would love to know the demographics of the typical buyer for these 4 vehicles- from time to time when the Wall Street Journal has a vehicle profile, they include this stuff and its really interesting.

    ~alpha
  • ontopontop Member Posts: 279
    Bored at work, here are some stats- Maybe Ford (and all the others) are REALLY missing out by not targeting this population with the new sedans.

    -The average gay audience is male and 36 years of age.
    -They are THREE times more likely to be college graduates and typically bring home SIX times the average national income
    -When asked if they would prefer buying products specifically targeted to their demographic, over 80% said yes.
    (Source: Fraser Seitel, The Practice of Public Relations)

    I would love to know the demographics of the typical buyer for these 4 vehicles- from time to time when the Wall Street Journal has a vehicle profile, they include this stuff and its really interesting.


    So what. What does this have to do with Sonata vs the others? We all know about the gay stats.
  • 03accordman03accordman Member Posts: 671
    No question of not backing my statements Backy, but he point I am making is that I have read in a few reviews that the HVAV/Audio/Dashboard design could be improved. I believe one instance was Car magazine (Asian version).

    Secondly, you would see from my posts that I mostly add IMO or IMHO, and not make generalizations or represent my statements as fact.

    cheers!
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Ford and Hyundai, imparticular, are trying to win conquest sales from other manufacturers, and certainly Honda and Toyota especially. The stats just confirm that there IS a market out there, and that leaving it untapped seems foolish. I think the situation is exacerbated for Ford, because it has 3 models serving 2 markets; it'd be easier to position one of them, (My thinking: the Milan) to this, or ANY other, group. But that seems not to be the case....

    Maybe when you figure on allowing a model line to languish for 6 or so years before redesign, with fleet sales increasing every year... its not such an issue....

    ~alpha
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Well, "a few" is different than "lots", at least in my mind, but let's move on.

    I have started seeing more '06 Sonatas driving around. Someone at my church got a GLS V6, black, and just loves it. I have seen a black LX in the parking lot of my wife's eye clinic each time we've been there recently--must be someone who works there. I saw one '06 Accord the other day, but that's it. No Fusion (or Milan) sightings yet--but they and the '06 Accord have only been out a couple of months.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    That's fine, but again, that type of conversation - manufacturers' goals, advertising strategies, etc. - belongs on the News & Views board. That's exactly what it's for.

    And exactly what this discussion is for is a comparison of the specific vehicles in the topics. The vehicles themselves, not the manufacturers.

    Thank you.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Thanks - I appreciate your comments very much and have passed them on to the other hosts.

    I'm glad you like the My Recent Post thing - I think that was a great addition for just the reason you say. I hope you and everyone have noticed the really terrific increase in response time after this last upgrade. I'm pretty astounded at the improvement!

    In terms of the hair-pulling and abnormal head growths, yah, these are indeed hazards of the trade. ;) But I think what might suffer the most is the wall beside my desk. It's really developing some serious dents from the head-banging ... I do have a very hard head otherwise known as a thick skull, um, yeah ...

    ;)
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    We really do need to get back to the subject.

    We used to have a Talk to the Hosts discussion but it got swallowed up by the newbies who didn't know where to post. I guess if anyone wants to "talk to the hosts", the Forums Discussion Finder discussion is still the best place, even though the name would not particularly lead you there. But do give it a shot if that's what you'd like to do.

    Now, as some have said (I b'lieve I was one of 'em!), repeat after me:

    Sonata/Accord/Camry/Fusion

    Sonata/Accord/Camry/Fusion

    Sonata/Accord/Camry/Fusion

    Sonata/Accord/Camry/Fusion

    ;):D :P
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Sooo, let's see. Any word on the 2007 back seat room? It already fares favorably among its closest competition, the Accord (I mean in sales numbers only). I drive an Accord (6'5") with the seat all the way back, and my 5'8" grandmother fits behind me comfortably, so I was wondering if the seat room in the 2007 is greatly improved, or about where it was. Too far, and they encroach on Avalon territory.

    Also, any hints at the next Altima, what it will pack, and how much it should cost?

    the grad
  • ontopontop Member Posts: 279
    Saw a new black LX today in my work parking lot. Looked nice, but that's the Sonata's best side. The front looks very plain. Maybe that's the plan. But if they did a redesign in a couple years I think it would pump the sales even more. Look at the 06 Accord - very plain. The 07 Camry is certainly curvy. I think it'll be a hit.

    You can't go wrong with the cars in this grouping (I'll be kind and go ahead and say the Fusion belongs, but after driving one TOD, I wouldn't buy it ahead of these other 3)
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    but what does TOD mean? The only thing I can think of is 'Time of Delivery'.

    ~alpha
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I think Hyundai went for more pedestrian styling on the '06 Sonata after seeing the sales success over the years of the blandly-styled Accord and Camry. As for a restyle, if Hyundai follows its traditional pattern we will see a major refresh for the '09 MY. Personally I like the styling of the Sonata better than anything else in the class besides maybe the Mazda6. Crisp and clean with a few interesting lines, no "hey, look at me!" grille as on the Fusion.
  • ontopontop Member Posts: 279
    The other day
  • ontopontop Member Posts: 279
    Few interesting lines is an understatement!

    If you like the 6 you'll probably love the 07 Camry. Great photos of it on the Camry board. I like it. I think Toyota will solidify its hold on top dog in this lineup with this redesign. Its got the Lexus look going. CAn't wait for its dealer debut.

    Drove in an Azera Saturday. Talk about bland. Hyundai certainly went the inoffensive route there. No pizazz.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Putting the "a" in front of my statement makes a lot of difference in meaning: "a few interesting lines" vs. "Few interesting lines...".
  • kingfanskingfans Member Posts: 11
    Hyundai may look good. a lot of buyers are smart and will still buy honda and toyota. Honda and Toyota are #1.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    a lot of buyers are smart and will still buy honda and toyota.

    These are the kinds of "intelligent" comments I just love--insinuating that the smart people buy Hondas and Toyotas, and the others--that would be the stupid people, right?--buy Hyundais.

    I bought two Hyundais, and I like the Sonata, so call me stupid I guess. But did I move from smart to stupid all at once, when I went from being a Honda and Toyota owner to Hyundais, or was it gradual? I went through some Nissans etc. first. :confuse:
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    It is not necessary to characterize buyers' intelligence one way or another. Please just stick to talking about the cars themselves and how they compare to each other. Thanks.
  • stockmanjoestockmanjoe Member Posts: 353
    I own a Honda and a Hyundai and I got news for Honda/Toyota there will be alot of people buying Hyundai. It is a car as good a quality or better at a reasonable price.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    We are not talking about "Honda" and "Hyundai" - we are talking about the Accord and the Sonata. And the Camry and the Fusion.

    I'm sorry to be so hard-nosed about this, but if this discussion is going to continue, we have GOT to get back on topic. Period.

    Thanks to any and all who are willing to help that happen.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Placing the Sonata and Fusion in a forum with these 2 leaders is similar to a new writer plagiarizing on the success of a well respected writer.

    The Altima, Mazda 6, or even Impala would be more comparable to the Sonata or Fusion.... :blush:
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I guess you missed how this discussion got started... it was because of the comparo Edmunds.com did on the Accord, Camry, and Sonata. And the Sonata took first place.

    If you want to compare the Altima, Mazda6 and Impala to the Accord and Camry it's really easy to set up a discussion to do that.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I guess you missed how this discussion got started... it was because of the comparo Edmunds.com did on the Accord, Camry, and Sonata. And the Sonata took first place.

    If you want to compare the Altima, Mazda6 and Impala to the Accord and Camry it's really easy to set up a discussion to do that.

    Well, it got started because of the numerous one-on-one comparos that people had started. I originally started with six competitors, but the host wisely decided that four would be the most that one forum could handle. (I had included the Nissan Altima and Mazda 6 as well as these four).
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    "I guess you missed how this discussion got started... it was because of the comparo Edmunds.com did on the Accord, Camry, and Sonata. And the Sonata took first place."

    While I think the Sonata is a great vehicle, I have yet to see a comparison where the Sonata beats the Accord and Camry where similar trim lines are considered. (In M/T and C/D, the Sonata beat the Camry but not the Accord... and in C/D, the Sonata's win was a mere 3 points over the 5 year old Camry).

    Now, at similar price points, hell yes, I'd take a V6 Sonata over a 4 cylinder Camry or Accord.

    ~alpha
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    I originally started with six competitors, but the host wisely decided that four would be the most that one forum could handle. (I had included the Nissan Altima and Mazda 6 as well as these four).

    That's kind of lame. There's a "cute ute" forum that compares the Escape/Tribute, Liberty, Forester, Vue, Grand Vitara and Santa Fe.

    Is this one limited to 4 due to the popularity of the cars in question? Pat?

    I for one would like to see the Mazda6 and Altima included as they add something that is lacking in the other 4. Style and soul. If you think about it there is a clear cut meter in which to gauge all six of these mid-sized competitors as no two are exactly alike in what they bring to the table.

    It's kind of like the left and right of politics actually, but here we have a conservative end and a sporty end. :P
This discussion has been closed.