Hyundai Sonata vs. Honda Accord vs. Toyota Camry vs. Ford Fusion

zen2 · January 2006

Very well put. I previously owned a 2000 Accord, and
got what I thought was a very good deal on it. 200 over
invoice. My 2006 Hyundai, which has a more powerful
engine, alloy wheels, stability control, and more room,
cost 2000 less. And quite a bit less than the 2006
Accord V6. If I really thought that the Accord was
that much better a car I would have gotten the Accord,
since my previous 3 cars were Hondas, and I really like
the Honda dealership here. But after driving both, it
was a tossup. As you say, why pay more for less car?

zen2 · January 2006

I wasn't trying to start a fight. I was just questioning
why you would post your narrative on the sonata vs accord
vs camry vs fusion forum. Why not just put it on the
Accord forum?

ctalk · January 2006

I wasn't trying to start a fight. I was just questioning
why you would post your narrative on the sonata vs accord
vs camry vs fusion forum. Why not just put it on the
Accord forum?

He wanted to inform buyers what mileage he got. What's wrong with that? Some of us here do care about mileage in this forum. It's nice to hear personal expieriences, it helps buyers to make the right choice.

thegraduate · January 2006

ctalk summed up my thoughts perfectly. Most people on the Accord only forum already have Accords, making my post there much less relevant than posting here.

Basically, ctalk said what I was thinking.

driverdm · January 2006

I am trully worried about the Sonatas resale. I think the car is great but it will get a lot of negative feedback in the up coming years. They have sold a significant number to fleets and there has been up to $3K on the hood. I have heard of them going for as little as $14.5K or $15K. Now what are people going to do five years down the line. Matter of fact, the first year depreciation should be quite substantial. Seeing as some paid $20K when it was first introduced with no rebates, then two months later there is $3K on the hood. No one is going to pay more for a year used car than what somebody got it new for. So already that person has lost 10% of value without even taken into consideration that there is depreciation when they leave the lot. Even at a year old, if someone who bought the car at $17K says they want to sell it and will accept $15K for it, the person who paid $20K is already in the whole by a whoping 25%, without any normal depriciation. And then when rental car fleets start reselling at even lower pricing, we will have a lot of angry buyers. I think Hyundai shouldn't put so much money on the car if they are going to sell to fleets. Sort of what Toyota does with the Camry.

smith20 · January 2006

Seeing as some paid $20K when it was first introduced with no rebates, then two months later there is $3K on the hood. No one is going to pay more for a year used car than what somebody got it new for. So already that person has lost 10% of value without even taken into consideration that there is depreciation when they leave the lot. Even at a year old, if someone who bought the car at $17K says they want to sell it and will accept $15K for it, the person who paid $20K is already in the whole by a whoping 25%, without any normal depriciation.

That's the risk and trade-off that person took for buying early! They should know they're going to be paying a premium for being one of the first to get a car. The retained resale value of people who bought the Sonata when it was brand spanking new should NOT be a standard by which the Sonata resale value is measured. What about those people that did purchase a new Sonata for $15k? They could potentially have a very good resale value percentage. I think you are making a conclusion about potential resale based on the wrong population of people. Early buyers of a popular new model should never expect to get a good resale value compared to a buyer with more patience that waits out the hype.

goodegg · January 2006

Why worry? If you're going to keep the car 5+ years who really cares about resale value? I suspect the Sonata (at least the V6s) will go that long without any major problems.

ontop · January 2006

After renting a Sonata a year ago I can honestly say I couldn't live with a car like that for 5 years.

carguy58 · January 2006

"Why else are people buying Hyundais? Cause they're priced much lower than the competition. If they were priced at what the others in this sector are priced at then they wouldn't sell nearly as many. Look at the rebates. Panel matching? Even my employee's Suzuki Reno has good panel matching."

Some people probably would like a Sonata over a Camry or Accord even without the lower price factored in. I know I do at least the Sonata in black color I would take over the Accord or Camry. I just don't like the 2 tone plastics in the Sonata.

As for Hyundai putting the Sonata in fleets. I think there is nothing wrong with selling cars to rentals but an excesive amount of the same car to rental fleets is too much. Look at Mitsubishi fleets sales acounted for a 3rd of their sales a few years ago which is way too much. Now fleet sales account for 10 to 12 percent for Mitsubishi which is a normal number of rental fleet sales. Mazda has trimmed their number of cars that it sells to fleets.

carguy58 · January 2006

"I agree. The 6 is a nice package. Not too sure of the Ford engine in it tho. The previous Fords I've owned all had the smell of leaking coolant in the engine compartment."

Consumer Reports rates the 6 V6 pretty good for the "trouble spot of engine" but Consumers gives a bad rating for the 6's V6's "trouble spot of brakes".

ontop · January 2006

same can of soup

Its not the same kind of soup. Many many folks would never even consider buying a Hyundai. CamCord's probably still banking on that fact. One day Hyundai may shed its negative image completely. Until then, the company has to bank on the lower price selling the cars.

backy · January 2006

That was a totally different car you rented a year ago, a design from the mid-'90s. The '06 Sonata did not debut in the U.S. until the Spring of 2005.

stockmanjoe · January 2006

You really need to drive the 2006 Sonata. It made a believer out of me I bought one!

baggs32 · January 2006

Consumers gives a bad rating for the 6's V6's "trouble spot of brakes".

I've been following along on the 6 threads here at Edmunds and can't recall one person complaining about brakes. I've had to use the brakes in an emergency in the real world a couple of times (idiot pulling out in front of me, deer, poor snow drivers) and I have to say they are pretty impressive performance wise.

Does it say what the problems with the brakes are?

backy · January 2006

The third-party reviews on the Sonata have also mentioned the short stopping distance of the Sonata's brakes, e.g. being the best in a comparo with the Accord, Camry, and Fusion.

baggs32 · January 2006

I noticed that MT noted the Fusion's brakes as being un-impressive, by comparison I would guess because they're not poor IMO, in their COTY write-up. Kind of surprising given how well the Mazda6's brakes perform. You'd think Ford would have used the same parts for the Fusion, or maybe they did and the different tires and weight gain of the Fusion set it back?

sonatame · January 2006

Recently traded in my Audi Cabriolet for the 2006 Sonata and could not be happier. The Sonata with ESC corners much better than my Audi and the people in the back seat actually can put their feet on the ground. Trust me, it was hard to give up real wood, but after thousands of dollars in repairs the name Audi or any other "premium" name lose their luster. This is definitely not a Boxster or Z-4, but for a sporty sedan I would park it next to any other sedan on the market. The new looks are a cross between an A6, Altima and Accord with suspension mostly mimicing the Accord. The take off is less jerky than that of the Accord for heavy footed folks and the ride seems smoother, but it could be the difference in how you sit in each car. All in all it is definitely worth more than the money I spent and if I had to knock it anywhere it would be the cheap looking gas cap and nozzel once you open the lid.

blnewt · January 2006

All in all it is definitely worth more than the money I spent and if I had to knock it anywhere it would be the cheap looking gas cap and nozzel once you open the lid.

We absolutely love our GLS V6 too, but I agree 100% that gas lid and cap are very chintzy in feel and apearance. I know most other models also have plastic gas lids (the actual locking fuel door), sure seems like that's a lousy place to save a buck. Our '89 Accord also had a very cheap plastic cover and we had to replace it twice

One other thing I wish the Sonata had was an oil pressure guage. But all-in-all a very satisfying purchase

zodiac2004 · January 2006

The Sonata with ESC corners much better than my Audi and

Unless your Audi was from the 80's or earlier, north america and europe are full of people who would laugh at this statement.

snakeweasel · January 2006

north america and europe are full of people who would laugh at this statement.

Have you driven both? Apparently sanatame has, his/her/its opinion my be biased but I would tend to listen more to it than to someone who doesn't have first hand experience.

ontop · January 2006

Hey - I've driven the Sonata LX and the Audi 3. The feel of the Audi is a definite connection with the road - tight and responsive. The Sonata has more of a cruiser feel. I prefer the Audi's feel and handling over the Hyundai's. But you pay a lot more jack for that feel.

snakeweasel · January 2006

Ok you have driven both and say that the Audi has a tighter and more responsive feel, but how do they compare strictly in their ability to corner?

FWIW My wifes daily drive ia an Accent. While the feel is what you would expect the ability of that thing to corner is simply amazing. I don't know if it is common to the model, or its just a quirk of my car, or just a good combination of car and driver, but I can take corners a bit faster than I could in most cars I have driven.

w9cw · January 2006

We're now in the market for a new Sonata, as we are very pleased with the new 2006 Elantra GLS we bought a couple of weeks ago. Interestingly, the Elantra's fuel door cover is not plastic, but it's not steel either! It's some kind of metallic material, but not ferrous as the "magnet test" doesn't work. Perhaps aluminum??? I'm not sure, but it's definitely metal of some kind.

sonatame · January 2006

To elaborate on my comment about the better cornering of the Sonata LX versus my 97 Audi Cabriolet if everyone would take note that the Cabriolet is front drive only which makes its' handling much different from the A4 and A6 (I have not drove an A3 and only drove A4 in England for business). The Cabriolet will turn quickly with a slight turn of the wheel, but will not hold it at higher speeds. Playing around on the same back roads where I liked to push the audi I was able to take hairpin turns at greater speeds. Audi does make a great car, but in my opinion the performance does not out-way the cost and maintenance that they require and the Sonata does corner better than the cabriolet.

sonatame · January 2006

I drove both the GLS and the LX which are both good choices. If you want a sportier ride with some get-up-and-go, take the LX.

blnewt · January 2006

It may be metal (not at all sure) but I know the hinges are plastic, and that's where I wish they'd go w/ metal parts. The Honda also had plastic hinges and they're not built for the long haul

carguy58 · January 2006

"Does it say what the problems with the brakes are?"

No they didn't say what the problem with the 6's brakes were. They just gave the 03 6 a much worse than average reliability rating(black circle for the 03 6 for the trouble spot of brakes.) Th 04 6 had a worse than average rating(a black over white circle) for the brakes. The 05 6 had a average rating(white circle) for brakes. keep in mind 05 models surveyed by consumers only had a total of 3,000 miles on then.

On a seperate note Consumers doesn't reccomend the 6 6 cyl sedan and 6 hatchback due to under average reliability. However Consumers reccomends the 6 4 cyl sedan(average reliability) and 6 wagon(above average reliability.)

carguy58 · January 2006

They can't even be compared. Audi doesn't have a competitor to the Sonata unless you go to their junior company(VW) which the VW Passat would be their direct competitor to the Sonata.

bryan200k · January 2006

Resale value! The one salesman at the local Honda dealership wanted to make a big point of the higher resale of the Accord. I'll agree with the higher resale value... but I ran some numbers and if you figure the delta (or difference) between Selling price and Trade-In of the Accord and the Sonata, this figures out about the same for both vehicles. You may get more for the Accord trade-in, but you also pay more initially. Besides I drive my cars till they either die or are over 200,000, so I normally don't get squat for trade-in anyway. When I traded in my wife's minivan with 206,000 for her SUV in 03, the one salesman said that he wouldn't give me anything for her van, and rightfully should charge me to take it off my hands.

BTW, I received a quote of $28,790 OTD on a 2006 Accord EX V6, and a quote of $20,636 OTD on a 2006 Sonata LX V6. Comparably equiped. 8K difference. For ME, both cars have their pros and cons. I just have to weigh (in my mind) what are really the important factors/features that I want in a car. My wife and I are leaning toward just waiting until this fall and see what the 07 models offer, and then either buy an 07 or get a good deal on a left-over 06.

carguy58 · January 2006

"You'd think Ford would have used the same parts for the Fusion, or maybe they did and the different tires and weight gain of the Fusion set it back?"

Well from what I hear the Fusion has more interior room than the 6 so it must be a bigger car than the 6 so maybe there is an issue with weight gain with the Fusion.

sonatame · January 2006

If you are going to finance your new car, Honda back in 2004 had a deal that when you buy the loan insurance you get a better %rate which lowered the overall payments. Not sure if they still do this, but a lower % on a five year loan can even out the initial costs between Honda and Hyundai. Hey, does anyone know how to switch off the "maintenance" light on a Honda Accord (2004). My fiance has the Accord and of course the dealer will not tell her how to shut it off like my Toyota dealer did.

snakeweasel · January 2006

When I traded in my wife's minivan with 206,000 for her SUV in 03, the one salesman said that he wouldn't give me anything for her van, and rightfully should charge me to take it off my hands.

Since I tend to drive til the wheels fall off, then put them back on and drive some more I have the same problem. When that happens I either try to sell it as is in a third party sale or if its bad enough take it to the junk yard and get some cash for it. Either way if I am not getting anything for a trade in it comes off the table.

snakeweasel · January 2006

Not sure if they still do this, but a lower % on a five year loan can even out the initial costs between Honda and Hyundai.

Don't think thats true, using the prices quoted for the two cars in the post you are replying to for the payments to equal out Honda has to offer 0% financing over Hyundais 13.5% financing. Don't think thats the case.

Also it usually costs the same or more to do that. You savings in interest is offset by the loan insurance.

w9cw · January 2006

Nope, on my 2006 Elantra the single hinge, spring, and door are all metal, but not ferrous metal. You can see the stamping and cutting remnants on portions of the hinge flange. And, when you gently tap the hinge with a screwdriver, you can tell that it's definetly metal. It's strange that they would use an alloy for a parts like the fuel door and hinge.

thegraduate · January 2006

How to switch off the Main't Req'd Light...?

If you will check your owners manual, it gives that information in full detail, but, if I"m not mistaken, it involves holding in the trip meter reset knob THEN turning the key to the "ON" position and holding for several seconds. Hope this is right for you, and good luck!

thegrad

explorerx4 · January 2006

a cabriolet is a convertible. of course an 8 year old 'vert doesn't handle as securely as the same size new sedan or have as much rear seat leg room. :confuse:

baggs32 · January 2006

On a seperate note Consumers doesn't reccomend the 6 6 cyl sedan and 6 hatchback due to under average reliability. However Consumers reccomends the 6 4 cyl sedan(average reliability) and 6 wagon(above average reliability.)

FWIW I take very little stock in what CR says and I don't want to start a CR war here, but that seems very odd. The Mazda6 sport wagon comes with the V6 only. But somehow it's more reliable than the sedan and hatch which are built on the same line with the same parts? Yeah, that makes sense. :confuse:

FWIW I do have a 2004 Mazda6 V6 MTX, "S" if you will, and have had one problem with it in 10,000+ miles. I noticed some jerky hesitation last spring when trying to hold a constant speed while climbing the hills in this area. Turned out the throttle body went bad and they had to replace it. It was done within an hour or two during a routine oil change and was of no inconvenience to me. The car still started every day and drove fine for the most part. Brakes are definitely NOT an issue at all. It's a really great car and I think it's getting a bad rap for no reason and without any real proof.

Using MT's logic my long-term update log would show no problems to date.

Hopefully the Fusion fares better because, if for no other reason, Ford needs it to.

driverdm · January 2006

"The retained resale value of people who bought the Sonata when it was brand spanking new should NOT be a standard by which the Sonata resale value is measured. What about those people that did purchase a new Sonata for $15k? They could potentially have a very good resale value percentage."

I just think that there is a loa of incentives on the car and that the used car market for these cars will be very competitive. I think that resale will be very low. They put $3K on it when it was two months old. What is going to happen at model year end? Even if there is only $4.5 on the hood at that point, that will hit both the people that bought the car for sticker in the first two months, and the peopel who bought it for $3K off the following months. It basically has to stick at $3K off for the rest of the year. After seeing it for $3K off all over commercials and web sites, would you still be willing to buy at a lower rebate. And at that point, someone could sell you their used for almost exactly the same money they paid for it to begin with. If incentives go down to $1K, people who bought at $3K off and negotiated their invoice price (another $1K off of sticker), could say, "hey buy mine, it has about 5K mileage but I'll give you $3K off the sticker of a new one". THat can't happen in the auto industry. Hyundai has put themselves and the car in a very compromised position very early.

driverdm · January 2006

I have heard about Hyundai raking in market share and huge sales increases but I haven't heard too much about profits. I don't know if their porfits have shot up like their sales due to all the incentives and rebates.

I'll tell you this, if Hyundai can still turn a good profit on the Sonata at its already low price, minus $3K in rebates and produce the quality and fit and finish levels they are. Then Honda, Toyota, GM, Ford, should all file for bankruptcy together because it would be impossible for them to compete unless they relocate all plants to Korea. It would be like me and you having two lemonade stands and you pay $1 for your lemons and I pay 50 cents. If the quality of your leonade is only marginally better (ignoring sugar costs), if I charge 75 cents and you only a $1.05, the question has to come down to. Is your marginal quality advantage worth 30 cents on the dollar? If I discount my lemonade to 60 cents (still making double your profit margin), fold up your stand and go sell newspapers.

carguy58 · January 2006

"It's a really great car and I think it's getting a bad rap for no reason and without any real proof."

I don't think its getting a bad rap. Mazda missed the boat on the interior room so thats sales of the 6 are at 70k units a year and not at 90-100K units a year is because the car is not as roomy as Altima and Accord.

thegraduate · January 2006

It's easy to see how Mazda can be overlooked when doing comparisons based on pure numbers.

I compared top models of Mazda 6, Accord, Altima, and Camry(outgoing), and here are a few of the shortcoming I have found.

Legroom F/R:

Mazda (42.3/36.5)= 78.8 total
Honda (42.6/36.8)= 79.4 total
Nissan(43.9/36.4)= 80.3 total
Toyota(41.6/37.8)= 79.4 total

These numbers don't illustrate the fact that the car isn't as wide as the others, and therefore feels more cramped when sitting 2 or three abreast in the car. (Just opinion, though)
Mazda smallest in width, length, horsepower (by 29-54 hp or) AND economy, lower crash test results, old (relative) styling (since 2002, nothing has changed) in quick changing market.

Mazda's 6 is a great car with great handling, it just isn't what everyone looks for when shopping for a family car.

baggs32 · January 2006

Mazda smallest in width, length, horsepower (by 29-54 hp or) AND economy, lower crash test results, old (relative) styling (since 2002, nothing has changed) in quick changing market.

Some of this was addressed for this year though. Side curtains and ABS are now standard on all models except for the base I4. The interior and exterior have been refreshed, NAV is now available, and the engine has been massaged a bit.

But I was really pointing the bad rap thing out in reference to CR. Their ratings don't make sense to me and probably turn some buyers away without good reason.

On another note, why Ford didn't follow it's own lead and make side curtains and ABS standard on the Fusion is beyond me. I know some people don't want or like them but it seems they took the hint from the market in the Mazda but not in the Ford. Kind of strange.

thegraduate · January 2006

Ford needs to have a low priced model to sell to fleets, perhaps, and the SAB aren't a priority to companies keeping tabs on a bottom line?

Just a thought.

bhmr59 · January 2006

Good comparison. You might also include Sonata; front leg room 43.7, rear 37.4 (total 81.1).

Hip & shoulder room, front & rear, is also more spacious in the Sonata.

ontop · January 2006

You got it - Hyundai's finances are all smoke and mirrors. You'll never know about their profits, and even if they posted them, who would believe their self-generated, hard to substantiate assertions?

I guess this isn't the consumer's problem right now. The cars are decent and the prices are dirt cheap. Somehow you'd think something will have to give. Iran could somehow buddy-up with North Korea and attack Seoul......

thegraduate · January 2006

I agree, but I just used the cars Mazda suggested a comparison with. I think we see (based on your post) why Mazda didn't want to be compared with the Full Size Sonata!

zodiac2004 · January 2006

You got it - Hyundai's finances are all smoke and mirrors. You'll never know about their profits, and even if they posted them, who would believe their self-generated, hard to substantiate assertions?

I guess this isn't the consumer's problem right now. The cars are decent and the prices are dirt cheap. Somehow you'd think something will have to give.

Exactly. It very soon becomes a consumer's problem if Hyundai of NA decides to file chapter 11.

But I believe it's pretty unlikely and they are probably trying to do what Lexus did starting in 1990. Which is launch excellent products while severely undercutting prices of the competition, win customers with the quality of products and service and then raise prices while retaining superior quality.

Really a great scheme, but central to its success is the quality of the product, which Hyundai doesn't have at the moment.

backy · January 2006

That's right, those 20k Sonatas sold last month were to buyers duped into thinking the Sonata is a strong entry in the mid-sized car market. The duped include all the car mags that talk positively about the quality of current Hyundais like the Sonata, CR (which recommends some Hyundai models), and JD Power (which has ranked the Sonata above Accord and Camry in Initial Quality twice in the past 3 years).

Somehow I think GM or Ford will file for Chapter 11 before HMA does.

alan_s · January 2006

Hyundai is a huge company with many different interests other than manufacturing cars.
They may not be making huge profits on the Sonata now because:
a) They know they can't command a Camry/Accord price YET, and
b) they are most importantly buying market share.

Low profits today are an investment for future profits when they have built market share and brand-name recognition. The Japanese effectively did this over twenty years ago. What this means to the consumer now is a good quality product at a bargain-basement price.
With the release of the new Camry, though, I think a lot of top brass at Hyundai, Ford, GM, Honda and Nissan are having nightmares right now. It looks like it may blow everything else into the weeds...

jojoe · January 2006

Yup I agree and the Sonata will be landing right on top of those bland ugly Camry's which were stuck in the mud beneath!

Hyundai Sonata vs. Honda Accord vs. Toyota Camry vs. Ford Fusion

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