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Hyundai Sonata vs. Honda Accord vs. Toyota Camry vs. Ford Fusion
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Comments
I see quite a few. Even saw a scope a while back.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Wow dude! hold your horses. Are you really that close-minded in your thinking. ToyHon is the by no means the holly grail of automobiles. Take a chill pill and checkout the rest. Personally, I wouldn't be caught dead in a ToyHon, but I don't think they are all that bad, just plain boring. I don't care about resale value, or whatever status ToyHon offers, NOT! Plus, I live in Brooklyn, NY where a ToyHon is parked on every block. Plus, why would I wan't to drive a boring car that requires me to pay higher insurance premium, uses premium gas, and is Brooklyn's, most stolen. I am not bashin TOYHon, it's just that I get a little miffed when folks like post stuff like this. Settle done dude. I will take any European car over ToyHon any day of the week....Chris out!!
Oh and Fusion, Sonata and Madza6 too
FWIW I believe the NHTSA has Dodge as the highest, but they use a different method to determine their list. They go by number of cars stolen and manufactured. So that a car where 100k were made and 100 were stolen rates higher than one where 500K cars were made and 200 were stolen.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I get miffed when people post their presumptions without bothering to research them, too.
You did state this.
They way you worded it, made it seem as if Honda's were not as well made as Hyundai's. Unless needing more spare parts is a positive thing? Well, I guess I was wrong......
Just stating the fact that most cars are stolen for spare parts.
Yes they are, it relates to the fact that Honda's are very popular on the tuner market to. You stated on the top post that Honda's needed more spare parts. You should also consider the fact that they are the most popular on the tuner market.
I am just questioning your reasoning. You stated that Honda's need more spare parts than Hyundai's. I disagree with that.
Also, just because a car is of the same size, shape, configuration, and has the same features of another car, doesn't mean that it's as refined. You can buy two of anything (printers, computers, speakers, tiles for your kitchen floor, etc) that will all functionally do the same thing, but the reason why one may cost more than the other is because it's the stuff you don't see that makes one better than the other. The smoothness of the transmission, the longevity of the components, the feel of the steering, braking, etc. So again, you can't just look down the option list of two vehicles and if everything matches just go buy the cheaper one and expect it to be the same car. For some people, those things don't matter, and there are plent of 'Kias & Hyundai's for them to buy.
Just like you can go to Walmart and buy an apple or go to local grocer and find one fresh from the tree. You'll eat an apple either way, but they won't taste the same.
What SEC filings have you read? I can't find one for Hyundai Motors in the past 2 years according to Edgar.
Yet notice how many Honda and Toyota owners feel the need to (over and over) try to convince the Hyundai owners that their Hondas and Toyotas were worth the price premium. If they were really comfortable with their purchases, wouldn't a simple, "I'm glad you are happy with your Sonata; I think the Camcord was the right choice for me" suffice without all the stuff about Hyundai's financials and the unreliability of Hyundais from 10-15 years ago?
Here is why I think a lot of people are looking at the Sonata. Some people (including me) look for a car to do a certain job. They have specific requirements. For a mid-sized family car, those usually include safety, comfort, decent handling, decent power, lots of people and luggage space, reliable, economical, and maybe good looking (in the eye of the beholder). What I think has happened with the '06 Sonata is that it has crossed the magic "bar" for a large number of mid-sized family car shoppers. Is it "better" than the Accord or Camry, in every respect or even overall? Based on your criteria, maybe or maybe not. But that is irrelevant. What is important is, does the car cross the buyer's personal "bar"? If so, the next question is, how much does it cost? If someone can buy a car that meets their needs for several thousand dollars less than another one that meets their needs, which one will they choose? And if the less expensive car doesn't meet their needs, whatever those are (maybe one of them is that they like knowing their car has a long-term record for reliability, and that is worth a lot of $$$$ to them), then the fact one car costs thousands less than the other is irrelevant.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
If they haven't experienced an Accord or Camry they really can't make valid comparisons. The fact is that statistically (so far) the Accord or Camry will last longer, have fewer mechanical breakdowns, have better fit and finish, less rattles and creaks, etc. etc. And, I mean long term statistics. Not just a couple years.
In reference to your investment analysis, there's always risk in investments. Sometimes you win and sometimes you loose. Not a good comparison. You could have lost as well.
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Replying to: jpnewt (Feb 06, 2006 1:22 pm)
Or it could mean that Hondas need more spare parts than Hyundais. Think about that.
This looks more than, "most cars are stolen for spare parts."
I don't see how, "most cars are stolen for spare parts," can translate into, "Hondas need more spare parts than Hyundais."
Maybe its because they did buy a really good car, no problems and it has a great warranty? I say my car is a really good car not because I am trying to convince myself of anything, but because the first time anything went wrong (a bad sensor replaced in a few hours) was at over 130K miles.
My feeling is that Honda owners keep talking about resale value is to justify paying thousands more for something not much, if at all, better.
It's the Hyundai owners that are trying to convince the rest of us
We are trying to spread the truth bro, trying to spread the truth.
but the reason why one may cost more than the other is because it's the stuff you don't see that makes one better than the other.
Not true in a lot of cases. don't fall into the trap that paying more makes something better. Trust me, slap a designer name on something, charge 5 times the price and people will buy it.
Now for someone who just said that Honda owners don't need to talk up their cars you just did a lot of that.
If you want to pay more for the same, go for it. Just don't tell me I am buying junk and trying to justify it. You sound like the guy who goes to a fancy restaurant buys a $25 tough, chewy steak and proclaims "this is the best steak I ever had, much better than your $7.50 tender juicy and tasty one".
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Ok I am driving a 2000 Elantra, when will that let me down?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Please do not put words in my mouth. All I said was most cars are stolen for spare parts. Anything else is inferred by you.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
That also compares with an average transaction price of $20,332 for the Camry and $21,120 for the Accord over the same period, the Power data show.
The average family income for buyers of these three cars is around $70K.
Could you show us where the positive comments are outweighed by negative ones? It really gets me that no matter how many people will say they had no problems with their Hyundai the standard reply is "oh your just one out of thousands". Yet just one person says anything bad and its the standard for the car.
Warranty is great but you can't drive a Warranty.
As far as I was concerned the warranty was useless. I mean nothing went wrong for the first 131,500 miles.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Or it could mean that Hondas need more spare parts than Hyundais. Think about that.
I just disagree with this statement which you seem to be ignoring. You stated that you did not say anything else. I was simply answering this post.
Well, we're not getting anywhere with this conversation. We can stop.
The Sanota isn't junk, but it sure isn't an Accord or a Camry either. We're not talking about designer cars either. That would be a BMW. Now you're talking thousands of dollars for the name,and their reliability rating isn't that great either.
Using values from this site, I came up with significantly different results.
The two cars compared were a 2000 Honda Civic LX sedan and a 2000 Hyundai GLS sedan. Both vehicles were in average condition, featured automatic, air conditioning and AM/FM/CD radio and had 130,000 miles on the odometer.
The Honda's trade-in value was $3,250, and the dealer retail was $5,347.
The Hyundai's trade-in value was $913, and the dealer retail was $3,206.
The difference between the Honda and the Hyundai is considerably more than $200. This is much more in line with the prices that I see advertised in the local papers.
And if the Sonata cost three times less as in your steak example, you're right I'd buy it in a second. But what percent does the Accord cost over the Sonata? 10% 20% ???
So in your steak example, I'm paying $10 instead of $7.50 for an Angus burger versus McDonalds. But that's okay. Lots of people buy the cheap $10 T-shirt at Walmart, while others pay $12 at Target and get something softer that will keep the color for a lot more washes.
And for others, the extra 10-20% paid for an Accord or Toyota will more than pay for itself in resale value, or if they keep the car for the long run, pay for itself in less repairs.
And repair cost is an average. I own a '99 Mercury Cougar that has really poor quality ratings. Prior to 100K miles I put about $600 into the car. Post 100K miles I've put in probably $2500 (a/c pump, alternator & some routine stuff). All total in 7 years and 120K miles I've spent about $3000 and I consider myself lucky. But I still am not going to say that my Cougar is the highest quality car out there. I could have spent several thousand more and bought a Celica, but I wanted something with a hatchback and not a small trunk opening, so I went with the Cougar. The point is that this forum isn't statistically accurate, so just because you may have a good history with a car, it doesn't mean that an overall car is reliable. I know my Cougar wasn't the most reliable car, but I was lucky with the amount of repairs. In the long run, if a Toyota Celica had met my needs, after all these years I still would be ahead because a comparable Celica would have cost about $4000 more then the Cougar, and I've spent $3000 in repairs, even if you minus $1000 for inconvenience time when my car was in the shop, I'm still at least even.
But I'm not going to pretend that my Cougar was of the same quality as the Celica.
Just refuting what anybody else says here doesn't make you right. You do realize that don't you?
Plus it seems you're AOK with the cheaper things in life, which is fine for you, but not for everyone else here. The Sonata is cheaper than an Accord EXV6, but nowhere near as refined.
Again, for me the 100K warranty doesn't mean much in today's cars that don't even need a tuneup for 100K miles. What about post 100K miles? And if you're a short-term buyer, then you have to look at resale value. Again, I know your experiences have been good, but I know lots of smokers in their 80's but that doesn't make it healthy.
For me, I'll give them another 5 years but until then, it's not worth the risk to me when there are so many other choices for a 4 door sedan.
As for safety, we know what the Sonata has done with the NHTSA tests (all together now: "they are bogus! etc.") and we will know in early March what the IIHS test results are. Other factors on safety are the standard safety features like ESC and ABS built into every Sonata--so I don't have to take a chance of finding the car I want with all the safety features I want, as on the Fusion and Camry ('07 Camry is much better, and '06 Accord not bad except for no ESC on 4-bangers).
By the way; Edmunds compared a 6 cyl Sonata to 4 cyl Camcords; back to the price factor again.
If today the Sonata were not priced as low as it is (they need to give our 3000 dollar rebates to sell them) not many people would be buying it, even though it is a much improved car
*disclaimer
*The views here are strictly my opinion and not stated here to piss any New Sonata owner off!
2000, poor
2001, average
2002, average
2003, better-than-average. Too soon for fair comparison
2004, better-than-average. Too soon for fair comparison
go to ConsumerReports.org
Not all the time. Many times you are just paying for a name. To give an example, I started a leather goods company one time, we made wallets, purses, bags and the like. Well we produced a purse that looked similar to a coach handbag (not a knock off just similar) at 1/6th the price. But we had better materials better stitching, all around better. What did you get for the extra $250? The name Coach.
A $7 steak is still a $7 steak.
While that may be true, but if the $7 steak is better than the $21 steak its still better regardless of the fact that it costs 1/3rd the price.
The Sanota isn't junk, but it sure isn't an Accord or a Camry either.
I know some ex-honda owners that will disagree.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Not just one or a few here and there. No one makes the perfect car for the perfect owner every time. Some just get closer to the goal than others.
This is a very valid and common-sense, yet conservative, statement. On the other hand, look at all the people who passed on purchasing Honda and Toyota products in the early stages of their success, and look at what they missed! Essentially the same virtues that both offer today, with the exception of improved resistance to rust and corrosion and enhanced safety features. I remember the days when the average car buyer wouldn't ever consider buying a Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Subaru, et. al. Times change, and perhaps, just perhaps, Hyundai is in that "early adopter" stage as well. A good, solid, quality-built, and reliable vehicle available at a more than reasonable price. Only the next 5 or so years hold the answer . . .
The first Toyota I purchased was in 1968 - a Corona. And, my local dealer (a MG-Austin Healy- Jaguar-Triumph-Fiat-Toyota-Siata dealer) sold it for less than invoice just to move it off the lot! My engineering friends thought I was nuts for buying a Japanese car, as they were all driving VW's, Volvos, or Detroit Iron. Funny, the more things seem to change, the more they stay the same!