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I can't overemphasize the importance of filling the gas tank to the same exact level on each fill up. Typically after the auto shut off engages I can squeeze in another 1.5-2 gallons of fuel. In places like NJ where self service gas stations are prohibited by law, chances are the attendant will only squeeze in another 1/2 gallon after the shut off engages. Then when you cap it at a self service station, your manual calculation will be skewed by the additional l-1.5 gallon you put in.
It takes about two additional minutes to cap the tank but it is the best way I know of to establish the true mpg figure.
(1) Someone reset the trip meter so the distance travelled was more than 150 mi. Always note and record the odometer too. Confirm the trip odo value by subtraction of odo readings.
(2) On the prior fillup the pump could have shut off early, but on the present one you filled to full. Some Dallas pumps will shut off if the collar is not held tight to the filling seal. The collar controls gasoline vapor emissions during fueling.
Tank A -- 49.3 MPG (keeping MPH 55-65 range)
Tank B -- 50.2 MPG (keeping MPH 65-70 range)
Tank C -- 42.4 MPG (keeping MPH 70+ range)
I have owned several Honda's, including a 89 accord that had 350,000 miles when i sold it. My wife loves her 08 Ridgeline, we also have ATV's Motorcycles and generators. The rear arm issues on my civic has been the only issue requiring warranty work on it. In my book Honda does not really have any competitors. My daughter has a 05 Toyota that is getting ready to loose a transmission. So i am a little biased there, and the rest seem to be headed towards bankrupsy, so that leaves Hyundai and Kia in a strong market (Good luck with either one of them, I owned a Hyundai for 6 months. What a pile) . I am happy with my HCH and 50 mpg that it gets.
This is one of the persistently lower MPG cars, never been able to crack 50 mpg no matter what we tried -- our other 2006 HCH (car #2) always does 47 averages using regular gas. This means either the compression is higher & computer detects pinging-low octane.. or it is just too sensitive to imaginary pinging.
Others have written that octane is never a factor - but perhaps for the cars that run a bit lower MPGs it will be worth a try.
So you are right and the others are wrong in regards to higher octane causing better performance/mileage in engines with knock sensors and electronic timing. If you are getting better numbers with premium fuel, then there is a problem. Like you say, it could be too high compression, or an overly sensitive knock sensor. You should try some aggressive top end engine cleaner to remove any carbon deposits off, and make sure that it has the proper spark plug installed, only use the plugs recommended by the manufacture ( there should be a sticker under the hood with plug specs)
The key to reductions in mileage as time passes is the condition of the battery. When the battery begins to fade it begins to lose charge internally - the amount of energy it contributes to propelling the car forward is reduced. When the computer asks for energy the battery responds with reduced voltage under load. The computer reads this lower voltage as meaning the battery has less to contribute (it actually does) and so it asks for less. Meanwhile, the lower voltage causes the computer to spend more time recharging the battery (to bring up its low indicated voltage). This energy comes from fuel burned unless you are coasting downhill.
The energy is lost due to reductions in the chemical efficiency, and increased internal resistance in the battery. I've noticed a change in the ratio between the amount of time the battery is charging versus the amount of time the battery is discharging and providing propulsion. Charging (green) goes up. Interesting, their choice of color here. The color that saves fuel is white, the color which uses fuel is green, and interesting juxtaposition.
Honda does not wish to be replacing everyone's batteries under warranty, so they program the computer to be very accepting of this lower voltage condition. After all, as other writers have noted, Honda is not promising any certain mileage figure. At some point the battery will fail completely, but before that, the mileage will drop significantly as the battery absorbs charging energy, but gives back little in propulsive force.
jtisch
That is the problem with hybrids, they have to try to make them civilized to drive, to behave like a non hybrid. It takes a lot of technology and compromises to achieve that goal.
I live in Idaho, and have the opposite problem, the colder it gets, the worse the mileage, due to the basic fact that a cold engine needs more fuel. The best mileage i get is when its about 85 out and I run with the a/c off and windows open.
jt
I am not sure about Honda, but other manufactures will have a different set of operating perameters during break in, in which you can expect to see lower mpg and horsepower. once you hit 10 to 20k miles, then things start working as they should. But this does not explane why you had high mpg and they are lower now.
Try resetting your mpg counter and take it for a drive with the A/C off during the evening or night, this might show you what your numbers might be like without A/C
Didn't reset any trip meters during the entire 1,800 miles.
I noticed on older messages on Forums 2004, 2005 that people were reporting decent mpg. Is something wrong with my new 2009 Civic Hybrid? I also noted on one message long ago, that a long break-in period does very little to boost gas mileage. We do normal combination city/highway driving, no drag racing!!
Obviously there are the old stand-bys like how you drive and tire pressure. But especially during the summer, many states mandate different approaches to oxygenate fuel for smog reduction. One way is to blend in ethanol. If you are gassing up at a pump that says something along the lines of "contains up to 10% ethanol" then that will be another factor in reducing your gas mileage because ethanol doesn't have the same energy content as gasoline. It's lower.
Also, where you fill up matters big time. It's the same issue as what grade of gas you buy. By law, gasoline can have a range of octane values that still qualify it as "regular" or "premium". It's more profitable for vendors and refiners to push those to the low end. If the gasoline you use does not burn as efficiently in your engine, at your altitude, etc, then you will get lower mileage.
(And if anyone quips in that it doesn't matter because modern cars have knock sensors, they are incorrect. Even with knock sensors, if you are running a real octane value too low or too high for what your engine runs most efficiently with, your engine will get lower mileage. Retard the timing and the engine is less efficient and you have to put more fuel and air in to get the same power out. Richen the mixture and you are directly lowering the mileage. All knock sensors allow modern engines to do is to keep running without damaging the engine because of pre-ignition, aka detonation and knock.)
My personal experience - backed up with the dash gauges, manually verifying the mileage with gallons filled up and mileage driven, and switching between different brands and grades of gas - is that in my area "mid-grade" gasoline from Chevron gets me the best mileage and the difference is enough to more than cover the difference inn price over buying the lowest cost regular, or even just regular at Chevron or other gas stations. It is a very false economy to always hunt the lowest gas prices. What people generally end up with is an inferior grade of gas that actually costs them more in the long run because their mileage is reduced.
Also, the brand of tires can make a huge difference as well as the previously-mentioned tire pressure. Some tire rubber compounds are "stickier" and/or the construction of the tire just causes more rolling resistance in a trade off for better handling or whatever.
I changed tires on my car and watched my mileage take a consistent 5 mpg hit. It rides nicer and feels like I have more control and maneuverability, but I haven't seen my previously common 50 mpg since. Even with pumping these tires up to the max recommended pressure, my mileage now is right at 45 mpg. The change was like night and day and happened right when I got the new tires. It was frustrating enough that I almost took them right back off and put on new Bridgestones which were what the car came with new. What I put on were Michelins.
It may be related to heat, as our temperatures have been in the low 100's for a week and a half, however we drove over to the coast last week for three days where it was in the mid 70's. Thanks for any info. anyone can provide.
If you are fueling up at CostCo, on what basis do you exclude fuel quality? Have you tried other brands and grades to do any comparative testing?
CostCo is going to be a bargain fuel reseller. I would put CostCo in the same category as buying gas at a convenience store. Maybe their gasoline is the primo stuff, fresh from the refinery and the octane rating spot on what is claimed, but I wouldn't bet on it.
And if the temperature has been in the 100's, are you running the air conditioner? Any engine load will reduce mileage.
Just for kicks, why not try a mid-grade tank from one of the majors? It will cost you 10-20 cents more per gallon - all of one to three dollars extra - but you might be pleasantly surprised. Then, if you do get better mileage, calculate out the cost per mile of gasoline costs and see which is lower.
And if you do get 5 mpg extra, with a 12 gallon tank, that's an extra 60 miles - or a free gallon (1.2 gallons at 50 mpg) of gas and then some. If the difference in cost of a tank of regular and a tank of mid-grade is less than the cost of 1.2 gallons of regular, it's cheaper to run mid-grade.
In the old days, as now, a particular octane rating will work better and provide more power when used in engines with particular characteristics. Higher compression engines *still* need higher octane and lower compression engines *still* work best with lower octane.
There is no problem if highmpg gets better mileage with a higher grade of gasoline. It could just mean that the gasoline in his area is marginal as to rating.
That has been my experience from when I first bought my hybrid. I get about 5 mpg better mileage using mid-grade than regular. Legally, there is a range of actual octane values that are accepted for a particular grade and it is more profitable for refineries and dealers to sell the lowest allowable octane (if not lower) that can be sold as a particular grade.
I think that where I am, and possibly where highmpg is, what is called mid-grade is probably a lot more like regular ought to be. Gas that barely passes as mid-grade is going to essentially be high-quality regular.
I'll bet that top end cleaner makes no difference to highmpg's numbers. What really matters for most people is what your fuel cost is on a per mile basis. Other than that, the fuel that gives you your highest mpg *is* the fuel that operates your engine most efficiently. That's basically by definition. It could also be that the difference in mileage is more than enough to offset the difference in price per gallon which makes the gas that is most efficient also the best in fuel cost per mile.
That's how it works for me. Verified - both by the dashboard mpg meter and manually checking the numbers with miles driven and gallons to fill up.
I get higher mileage by running mid-grade and the extra mileage compensates and more for the higher price making that the cheapest fuel for me to use as well.
This stuff is simple. All it takes is running the fuel and making simple calculations to figure it out.
Are these things all posted at the fuel pumps? Should they have fuel pumps for Hybrid Cars only? Like diesel fuel for Trucks? Why don't the EPA test results of these Hybrid Cars indicate what fuel they used, other than Regular Lead Free Gasoline, if fuel quality makes a difference? I have never had a problem with fuel for MPG in other non Hybrid Autos, no matter where I fueled up, Chevron, Shell, Mobil, 7-11, CostCo, ARCO, whatever. After this next tank of gasoline, I will go to CHEVRON, the most expensive, and fill up, and see if it makes a difference, and I will let you know. I really suspect the dealer is feeding me a bunch of B.S.!
Gasoline is really a complex mixture of hydrocarbons. It's also a natural product of sorts. Oil from one region can look very different from oil from another. Refining will balance a lot of things out but it's still a very complex mixture that on the whole has characteristics that allow it to be classified as a particular grade of gasoline. We're just stuck with the situation.
The people that do gas mileage testing will verify the fuel that they use meets certain standards. It's just not practical for corner gas stations to do that. They may also have issues with water, their refiner might simply sell them substandard gas, etc. While the people evaluating mileage on cars may know pretty well what they are putting in the tank, we don't have that luxury and there are also the unscrupulous who take advantage to increase profits.
One thing to also remember is that cars that get high mileage will show variations in that mileage more than cars that don't. Also, did you monitor and track mileage in the other non-hybrid cars? A 10% change in mileage on something that gets 50 mpg will be much more noticeable than on something that gets 25 mpg.
And even if you fill up a Civic Hybrid with more expensive gasoline, it won't cost that much more since it is only 12 or so gallons. And in the long run, it might even save you money.
As an aside, while I get about 5 mpg better mileage with mid-grade over regular, my milage went down by about 5 mpg with premium over regular. My car definitely does not like premium. Some stations have four grades of gasoline instead of just three. I'd go up just one grade and see how it does.
And if you do notice a difference, keep in mind that things may change as seasons change, and from brand to brand and region to region. It's because formulations change between brands and between seasons even at the same station. Region to region will have even more possibilities for change. But in general for me, I pretty much always get the best mileage on mid-grade.
Also, tell them that you believe the EMR Battery is not getting charged. If you still have problems then another option is to report your problems to the Bureau Of Automotive Repair, via the State Consumer Protection Agency. They may even have an independant place that can do the testing, similar to independant Smog Check station. These are usually at colleges via their Automotive Repair Classes.
These options are of course to be used only if the Dealer told you they can't look at your problem without Codes? Please call Honda Headquarters, they do escalate any problems with dealer's service.
Please refer to message #458, and back to msg #455. Tell your Honda Dealer, or any Honda Dealer you want a Fuel Consumption Test per American Honda Inc. in Torrance, CA
Now that is what I would expect, at least something close to 42mpg, which are Honda's and the Gov's. average fuel consumption testing numbers. For 25,000 miles, that should cover a large amount of driving conditions, city, hwy., weather, etc. Thanks for the input.
jt
jt
On a trip from Fl. to W.Va. I even got 50 mpg.
In January 2009 (after buying new tires) I began to get 38 mpg or less city/hwy. It keeps going down consistantly. Today I checked my mileage and it was 32 mpg city/hwy. Anyone out there have any answers? I use the same gas (sunoko, hess,BP, citgo, etc.)
Suddenly, my mileage dropped to the 39-40 range. I talked to the dealer about it and they had no clue. I changed several gas brands to no avail.
So, I did a little test. I turned off the air conditioner for two to three days (that's torture in Florida in the summer) and sure enough the mileage started to climb.
I also play golf once a week, sometimes twice, so I took my golf clubs out of the trunk and put them in the garage.
Sure enough, my mileage climbed back to the 47 level with no A\C and no extra weight in the trunk.
So, if you live in a hot climate, try the A\C trick, take extra weight out of the trunk and overinflate the tires by 2 or 3 lbs. each.
During the hot days I still use the A\C and suffer the fewer miles.
Can't wait for fall and the cooler weather to get back to normal. :shades:
jt
I have never gotten better than 39.9 miles per gallon driving in all conditions. I do have the A/C on a lot as we have been in the 100's the last of August and the first two weeks in September. This is sometimes with another passenger in the car, and sometimes with some weight in the trunk. I have to think that the ideal conditions to get MPG in the high 40's to 50 would be single driver, no A/C on, no extra weight in car, and factory recommended tires, (in the Owner's Manual), and reasonbly conservative driving habits. In this condition if you don't get at least 40 to 45 mpg, something may be wrong with your Honda Civic Hybrid. If you don't follow exactly what the owner's manual calls out in tires, that could make a difference. If you ignore the low tire pressure indicator, this can bite you also.
I am going on a long trip this week-end and will have a chance to really check out highway mileage. Of course I will have another passenger, some luggage, and probably the A/C on. I think the EPA ratings on MPG should get real, and define what real MPG are with the conditions I just described. Otherwise, the MPG on the dealer's window stickers are always going to be high and GUESSING at what the REAL MPG are in average driving conditions/situations.
If anyone gets abouve 37 mpg, consider yourself ahead of the GAME!
I dont think the drop in cold mileage is so much a problem due to the electral side of the powertrain. The internal combustion engine has always had been inhertently inefficent in cold weather,especally during warm up. The old carbureted engines used to have to be choked of almost all air to be able to get to start and run when cold, and the incoming air had to be heated to eliminate hesitation during acceleration. The new fuel injected engines are no different. The injectors are dumping fuel during start-up and warmup to get things running. Any why is this? Liquid gasoline does not burn. It needs to be a vapor or near vapor. when an engine is hot, and the intake air is hot, the fuel sprayed from the injuctors turns to vapor or at least stays in the form of small dropplets. Then the engine is cold, and the air is cold, the fuel does not vaporize, but tends to turn back into liquid fuel. By increasing the fuel mixture by llke 200% when cold, there is enough vaporized fuel to make the engine run properly.
Add the fact that all of the liquids in the engine are thicker when cold, adds resistance to the powertrain.
The Hybred engine is extreamly fuel efficent and can get 48mpg on the freeway with only using the battery to assist in acceleration. but everything that can cause resistance to the car (weight, low tire pressure,wheels missaligned, excessive speed,wrong motor oil, ect) will cause a dramatic drop in mileage.
Of course the Honda dealer has never offered any help with this problem. Everytime we take it in for service they only shrug their shoulders and tell us the car has no problems.
Any advice? :lemon: