Porsche - the world's best car company.

kevm14 · July 2005

But also in todays car world, I don't see any difference in BMW, Benz or even Porsche ... let's be honest, most folks buy these cars for image, for the ego

Yes, but cars like, for example, the E90 3-series are some of the best feeling cars in the world right now. I'm talking about the driver's connection with the road and the overall performance of the vehicle in that price range/class. Can Harley say that? It can say "Most emotionally connected" but that's it.

rsholland · July 2005

Well I tried to start a specfic thread on this topic, but it got shut down.

Bob

lemmer · July 2005

How about almost as fast as a new Subaru? Doesn't have the same ring does it? But considering it is little more than half of a new Hummer H2's time, it is a pretty fast SUV.

Mr_Shiftright · July 2005

Well I don't know any Porsche owners like that. Who on earth are you talking to? Miami hairdressers? :P Like I said, if someone buys a Porsche as a poseur's car they will quickly tire of it and be disappointed. I see that all the time. It's a driver's car 100% and if one thinks they are buying a German SC430 or an SL500 they are in for a very rude shock.

Porsche is very good about maintaining the integrity of their cars. They do what they say they do. There is no pretense about the product. You want to run at redline all day on the Autobahn, go ahead, no problem, no sweat.

I wouldn't lump Porsche cars and Cayennes in the same category, and neither does Porsche itself I don't believe. The Cayenne represents an expanded market to people who might not normally drive a Porsche (as well as those who do). So sure, more women are likely to drive an automatic trans. SUV, and sure, you are more likely to get an image-conscious person into a Cayenne than a Porsche 997.

As for comparing Porsches to Subarus and Camaros, that brings up the old "rich fool" argument, which goes: "why would someone spend $70K for a car that goes no faster or not much faster than one that costs $30K? Therefore, everyone who spends the $70K is a dope". A variation of "rich fool" is "these people are all poseurs and are just buying a name".

Fact is, plenty of people do spend the $70K and Porsche is making money and Camaro is dead and Subaru is struggling.

So there's something else going on, obviously, besides 0-60 times and image. Porsche is the "best" at business in this case and I don't think it is merely "image-based".

Porsche offers something that people really want and that 'something' is tangible enough to get your hands on.

highender · July 2005

I think so...they are built by the same company..and are the only V8 ever made by the company in recent years....

I like the strong engine...and perfect performance , for an SUV... I know many people do not like SUVs....and feel that Porsche should not have gone there....and in hind sight, they may be right...

I think SUV phenom will die down due to 2 main reasons:
1- gas prices are going up....
2- the main reason....most baby boomer children are reaching adulthood, thus negating the need for SUVs to shuttle them to camp, to ski, to games, or for family trips. older boomers also are also reaching retirement age, and thus need to downsize.

I have not heard of any major engine problems yet...not even one.!!! There are electronic glitches....just like any computer hard ware or software ...and cayenne does have lots of electronics....so that , to me , is the main source of complaints. I have yet to hear any one complain of the lack of performance, or engine trouble.

highender · July 2005

Hi Kevm:

me: "acceleration: 0-60 in 5.2 sec for the turbo ( about the speed of a 1986 Lamborghini Countach S ) "

you : "I think it's funny that in an effort to make the Cayenne's performance seem exotic, you liken it to an 80s Italian supercar. You could have just said "about the speed of a 1998 Camaro Z28."

Me: a doubter, eh ?

How many cars will accelerate from 0-60 in 5.0 or 5.4 sec ?
not many, I bet. I used to drive a 2000 Boxster S....nice car....but the cayenne will be close to it in acceleration. As to comfort, cayenne will surpass it.

Now I will say that I claim ignorance about the 1998 Z28.....It is a nice car...but not my cup of tea..... I don;t know how old you are...but back in my college days, we all loved the Countach...since it was the Supercar of the time. Nothing came close to it...Back then we would put up posters of the Countach and drool over it....and now a mere SUV can equal the performance of a supercar.....( of course, nowadays the Diablo and Ferrari's are doing it in 4.2 sec......... )

so

highender · July 2005

"How about almost as fast as a new Subaru? Doesn't have the same ring does it?

LOL...your trying to insinuate the cayenne is a lesser vehicle , really says things about the Subaru. I have nothing against Subaru...they are nice...dependable, but remember.....Porsche made the first 4 wheel drive vehicle in the world..!!

And ...if you get into a new Subaru....welll , I guess that means you are in a fast....er....well...you are still in a Subaru...

"But considering it is little more than half of a new Hummer H2's time, it is a pretty fast SUV.

Yes...it is fast. But why compare it with a Hummer, which is not designed for speed, but military duty ? It is not fair to Hummer. I compared the cayenne to the Countach, because both were designed for speed.

Now Cayenne is the fastest SUV on the planet....bar none. It was clocked going 165 mph in the Australian out back.....the BMW X5 did 154....the Mercedes ML55 did 150. The cayenne , with the side view mirrors folded in, 96 octane, and with the other 2 SUVs punching an aerodynamic hole in the wall of air....topped out at 175 mph. And it can really go offroad. I think only the engineering prowess of Porsche could pull off something like this. Are any owners going to go 165 or 130 mph....I don't think so, and I hope not...but next time you see one on the road.......you will know that your eyes may deceive you...that the hunk of SUV you see can probably out perform many sports cars , including the Mustang and the Nissan 350 Z......

highender · July 2005

"But also in todays car world, I don't see any difference in BMW, Benz or even Porsche ...

Yikes.....you don't see any difference ? Now I would agree with you if you said that there was similarities between BMW and Mercedes...but even between Bimmers and mercs...there is a fundamentally basic difference. BMW has always emphasized performance with luxury a second thought. Mercedes is just the opposite....luxury first.....performance is not that important (AMG notwithstanding). PORSCHE is all about performance.....to hxx with luxury....

let's be honest, most folks buy these cars for image, for the ego or for those little words said: "I drive a Bimmer" or "that's my E class"

here I agree with you. Most image conscious people buy Mercedes and BMW or Lexus.

and lets not forget: "Yeppers, that my 911" .... I see it every minute of everyday, they're my customers .

You must have missed the glee in the eye and squirt of adrenaline in the face.

Here I disagree.....although there is a group that buys a Porsche , but buys it only for the sporty image or image of owning a name brand. They are in the minority, I think. Most people buy it for the performance . Porsche cars are not that easy to get used to, if one is accustomed to soft rides, cup holders, just going to point B. They are rather stiff in ride, low down, bumpy and easy to get sick in if you are a queasy person.

Most folks buy all kinds of things for the prestige, the ego rush .... do you think golfers spend $2,000 on a new set of Nikes, Callaways or Clevelands golf clubs because it will make their game better..? .. heeeeeck no.! .. it's because Tiger, Mickelson and Vijay use them and are the best in the world .. in the meantime, these are the same folks that will triple bogey every hole, they could use a shotgun and it wouldn't change their game -- but those clubs sure look good at the golf course ....

You are both right, and wrong ! There are a lot of golfers who would do bad no matter what clubs they have. This months' issue of GOLF magazine talks about a recently deceased guy in Britain who spent over 100,000 lbs sterling on clubs....and left behind hundreds of sets and thousands of clubs.

that said, the golf Pros all say it is in your swing, but that better equipment will improve your game....some clubs are more forgiving, correct slices and hooks, etc......

Same applies to cars. Yes...if all you do is go from point A to point B...then a Yugo or Hyundai will suffice....but if you want to enjoy the drive , and really have fun...then Porsche will provide that.

lemmer · July 2005

No, I wasn't demeaning Porsche. I was just being glib.

If you get into these acceleration for $ arguments, you can't win. For example, if you ever pick up an issue of Grassroots Motorsports, you will see crazy things like Voyager minivans built for $1,500 that will do high 12's in the quarter. I would still take the Cayenne.

rsholland · July 2005

And ...if you get into a new Subaru....welll , I guess that means you are in a fast....er....well...you are still in a Subaru...

Frankly I find that comment to be snobbish, if not downright offensive. It just goes to show that for some people "image" is indeed a factand is very important as to who they "think" they are.

Fact is you can get plenty of satisfaction out of driving a high-performance Subaru (and other brands too), and you don't have to spend a bundle to do so. I find that pretty attractive.

Bob

Mr_Shiftright · July 2005

Oh c'mon it's not offensive. All it says is that you get what you pay for, what's wrong with that? You can fill in the blank on any $30K for that matter.

You were expecting hand picked top grade leathers and heavy steel and outstanding lustrous paint and exotic alloy construction and a car that will look great in 30 years? No $30K car can deliver that.

You can't get Porsche quality or build for $30K, any more than you can get a $300 suit that is stitched and tailored and has the quality of fabric of a $1,000 suit.

This is just the "rich fool" argument again, sounds to me; why is the fool spending $70K when everybody knows a Subaru is just as good.

I'm not buyin' that argument because I think it is based on an erroneous premise.

rsholland · July 2005

If you have the the extra $70K to spend, then fine; but please don't put those down for buying a lesser car, be it a Subaru or something else, who are not in the postion to buy a Porsche. For many a Subaru is just as good, maybe even better.

I find that comment offensiveand it reeks of snobbery. Sorry Shifty, you're not going to convince me otherwise.

Bob

kyfdx · July 2005

You would really take offense over what someone else thinks of your car?

Sounds like reverse-snobbery...

rsholland · July 2005

Huh???

Bob

kyfdx · July 2005

..that you car what someone else thinks about your Subaru..

Why do you care what they think?

I usually consider the people who are concerned about their car's image to be the snobs...

regards,
kyfdx

rsholland · July 2005

Tell that to Highender, not me.

Bob

kevm14 · July 2005

How many cars will accelerate from 0-60 in 5.0 or 5.4 sec ?
not many, I bet. I used to drive a 2000 Boxster S....nice car....but the cayenne will be close to it in acceleration. As to comfort, cayenne will surpass it.

Lots of stuff has reached the mid to low 5 second 0-60 range. You can even get a Mustang GT that'll do the run in the low 5s for well under $30k. I'm not a Ford person, but that's a decent value. Frankly, I'd be suprised if a Cayenne Turbo could out-handle the Mustang, just because it has SO MUCH weight and tall center of gravity that not even $100k worth of engineering can change that fact. The Cayenne is impressive for an SUV, but as far as performance goes in CAR land, it's nowhere near the top. And for $100k, I could buy SEVERAL comfortable and fast cars.

Now I will say that I claim ignorance about the 1998 Z28.....It is a nice car...but not my cup of tea

I was just using it as an example. I could have also said 1992 Corvette. I have a 95 Camaro Z28 and I know what it can and can't do. What it can't do is even remotely pretend to be a luxury car.

..... I don;t know how old you are...

24.

but back in my college days, we all loved the Countach...since it was the Supercar of the time. Nothing came close to it...Back then we would put up posters of the Countach and drool over it

I remember those days, but I was a lot younger than you.

....and now a mere SUV can equal the performance of a supercar.....( of course, nowadays the Diablo and Ferrari's are doing it in 4.2 sec......... )

And again, just like with the Cayenne and 5.2 seconds 0-60, you don't need to spend over $100k to get 0-60 in 4.2 seconds. Check out a 2001-2004 Corvette Z06. It's also not a straight line special. No, it doesn't have that touchy-feely germanic-ness to it that the Porsche does, but for $50k, you get (or got) an AWFUL lot of car. Corvettes are even pretty reliable (at least C5s) and just as easy to work on as any run-of-the-mill GM car, for the most part. Consider modifications. You can buy a late model Corvette, and there is the MOON out there for ways to tweak the engine, suspension, the look, etc, and a GOOD CHUNK of those options are actually affordable. You don't have to spend $40k on a "Stage 2 Ruf Package," you know? The owner can actually fiddle with the car. Computer recalibration is as simple as some $500 software and a laptop. You can buy a cam for $200, put it in, recalibrate the computer yourself and be beating that Porsche Turbo (a 911 Turbo, the Cayenne was history from the showroom). THAT is a level of satisfaction that you could never achieve with a lot of supercars. Of course, it's not for everyone, and I realize this. That also points to the fact that these guys are going to need intelligence. How many Porsche owners are capable of changing out the cams, or recalibrating the PCM? I'm frankly more impressed by knowledge and experience than by a fat wallet.

The thing that got me off exotics well before I even got my license is that I realized I would NEVER own one. Thus, I became uninterested. With the Corvette (and other "affordable" sports cars), ownership is a realistic proposition. Case in point, my 24 year old cousin. A couple years ago, he bought a used 2001 Corvette Z06. Torch red, 8000 miles on it. He got it for like $34k, which was a steal. It was at a Toyota-Volvo dealer. Can't imagine what they traded it in on. Anyway, here he is with near-supercar performance that I've had the privilege of experiencing in both the passenger's and driver's seat (current supercar performance, I should add), while the rest of us are talking about Porsche Turbos that, with a few options, easily exceed the $100k mark. Regardless of perfection, if I can't afford it, why should I care? That's kind of how I feel.

Mr_Shiftright · July 2005

I don't quite get that type of response either. I'm trying to understand what is "insulting" about it, but what I'm seeing is really one slap and a counter-slap kind of thing ====> It's like saying "I am allowed to say my $30K car is as good as your $70K car, but you are not allowed to say 'yeah, but it's still a $30K car' ".

I mean, one testy remark will usually inspire another, as any Internet host knows for certain :P

so I'd view it as a "double-fault" myself. YRMV.

I think the game of "my sword is bigger than your sword" goes back to the days when we were all wrapped in animal skins.

kyfdx · July 2005

Are you talking to me??? :mad: :mad: :mad:

Oh, wait... I see what you mean..

I guess I'm a little bit of a snob, too.. I feel superior because I don't care what other people think of my car...

My wife keeps wanting me to cheer for her home state university's sports teams... "But, I cheer for your team".

Fine, but I couldn't care less if you didn't... I know my team is best... your opinion is not important..

We get along really well.. :surprise:

rroyce10 · July 2005

... **Well I don't know any Porsche owners like that. Who on earth are you talking to? Miami hairdressers? Like I said, if someone buys a Porsche as a poseur's car they will quickly tire of it and be disappointed. I see that all the time. It's a driver's car 100% and if one thinks they are buying a German SC430 or an SL500 they are in for a very rude shock** ...

Who do I talk to..? .. PGA tour monsters, boat builders, corporate sponsors, home builders, golf course designers - and yes, even Miami hairdressers .. it takes money to own a Porsche and some of those hairdressers make $600/$700 a day ..l.o.l....

I understand your point about the concept of Porsche, I've bought and sold plenty of them and they're great vehicles .. but it's a very fast and changing market, so your kinda singin' to the choir here, because the Boxster is ho-hum and the Cayenne is right behind it .. I've never knocked Porsche or their great products --- til' the new ones came out ........

Terry.

kyfdx · July 2005

Ahhh... It is just the best handling car that Porsche has ever made..

Of course... going around corners at maximum speed with no drama... I guess that could be described as ho-hum...

I consider it Nirvana...

designman · July 2005

Yoodaman!

Mr_Shiftright · July 2005

Well okay, if we mix up Cayennes and Boxster into this, I admit I'd have to broaden my view of who the poseurs are.

But if you want to keep the view on the 911 type car, I'm not budging. I think no car made today, except maybe the Ferrari, has fewer poseurs....well actually cars like the STi and EVO are probably driven by fairly "pure" enthusiasts too, because you aren't getting luxury or prestige or super build quality you are getting great performance for the buck. I didn't include Vettes in there only because of the large # sold with automatic transmission, which made me hesitant to declare them "poseur-free". :P

KYFDX--no, no, I wasn't talking to ANYBODY, just remarking how from my point of view one insult might bring forth another.

scott1256 · July 2005

Performance attracts poseurs as does an exclusive image. Performance combined with an exclusive image is doubly attractive.

Even so there definitely are a lot of 'pure driving experience' people among Ferrari, Corvette and Porsche owners.

rroyce10 · July 2005

... **that said, the golf Pros all say it is in your swing, but that better equipment will improve your game.... some clubs are more forgiving, correct slices and hooks, etc...... Same applies to cars. **

You just listed the best analogy on the planet - and you didn't even know it ....

If you read 50 golf reviews off the internet and then read Golf Magazine, Golf Digest, etc, etc .... your always going to hear the same thing: .. "There's never been a driver built like this before." ... "Explosive distance and amazing soft feel." ... "Maximum performance and incredible forgiveness." ... "The newest and hottest face in driver technology." ... "A near-perfect blend of raw power and ease of play that produces maximum clubhead speed." ... "Makes all shots possible .. this club is more forgiving, this one will gain you 20 yards" ....... kinda sounds like any new car review, don't it.? ..l.o.l...

Cars, like golf clubs are a very personal thing .... you need to drive em', you need to take them out and see if you like the way they turn or the way they stop, maybe it's the horsepower, maybe it's the trunk room that leaves you cold, perhaps you don't like console set-up, maybe the contour of the seats drives you crazy ...

Like golf, all the "Pro's" in the world can't see what you see - and feel what you feel .. and cars, like golf is a very feely touchy thing, one mans Driver is another mans Broomstick ..... just like when the new car reviews come out, same goes for the golf reviews .. they flood into Edwin Watts, Golf Galaxy or whatever the super store is in their area and they are grabbing that new driver or wedge and out the door they go ..l..o..l..... .. reviews are fine .. but as in cars, you need to drive, play, feel, touch, caress it -- then make a decision ....... thats why I always say: Buy and drive what you like ............................

Terry.

designman · July 2005

But if you want to keep the view on the 911 type car, I'm not budging. I think no car made today, except maybe the Ferrari, has fewer poseurs....

Sorry, gotta scratch my head on that one. I heard 90% of Porsche buyers are not enthusiasts. I think Adrian Streather said it, not that I necessarily agree with it.

I look at many buyers of performance cars to be fans and true lovers of them, but Ill compare them to golfers since Terry is on that theme. Something like 95% of golfers dont break 100. Thats hacker territory. I would guess that most people who track their cars are like these weekend golfers. They play the game but to very low quality levels. Where does this leave the majority of people who buy Porsches and Ferraris who only drive them on the street? Are they poseurs, or are they simply just appreciative aficionados. Do they qualify as enthusiasts? I fyou shoot 110 on the golf course every week, can you be considered a golf enthusiast?

Well okay, if we mix up Cayennes and Boxster into this, I admit I'd have to broaden my view of who the poseurs are.

What exactly is your definition of a poseur and who are they in your opinion?

kyfdx · July 2005

.. I am an afficionado of the marque.. and a true driver...

If you are driving... you are just a poseur..

That pretty much sums it up, for me..

designman · July 2005

Ah cmon, that barely makes sense. You gotta elaborate more than that ;-)

rroyce10 · July 2005

....... Oh C'mon Kyfdx .... I have a feelin' if we gave you a baloney sandwich and stuck you on a Greyhound bus we would have to put a set of "Depends" on ya ............................. :P

Terry.

kyfdx · July 2005

I am truly offended...

Well... not truly..

Hey.. when I was young, single, and owned a Porsche... I bought it because it was my dream car, and I loved everything about it.... The handling.. the air-cooled boxer 6-cylinder.. the exhaust note.. the seating position.. everything..

I really didn't care what anyone else thought about it..

That said, I didn't exactly mind the extra attention from the fairer sex.. Does that make me a bad person?

regards,
kyfdx
(who likes baloney... that's why I'm here)

highender · July 2005

, you will see crazy things like Voyager minivans built for $1,500 that will do high 12's in the quarter. I would still take the Cayenne.

I agree...I would too....not that there is anything wrong with Voyager minivans that fly.....

highender · July 2005

Hi Bob:

me: " "And ...if you get into a new Subaru....welll , I guess that means you are in a fast....er....well...you are still in a Subaru... ""

YOU: "Frankly I find that comment to be snobbish, if not downright offensive. It just goes to show that for some people "image" is indeed a factand is very important as to who they "think" they are. ""

oh come on....did I hurt your feelings ? I did not mean it. I just borrowed a line from someone from the Cayenne forum..who posted that .

Your second sentence rings true...there are many people who buy for image only....but that group normally gravitates towards the other brands...(not that there is anything wrong with buying for image.... WE all do....in some way or the other....brand name recognition is a part of all of us....NONE of us are immune....be it cars, or food, or clothes or house, or....etc...

you :Fact is you can get plenty of satisfaction out of driving a high-performance Subaru (and other brands too), and you don't have to spend a bundle to do so. I find that pretty attractive.

I agree with this statement. and there is nothing wrong with buying for value. You get more per dollar, in terms of physical attributes.....but may not get that much in terms of image...that is just a fact of life..... I like Subaru....and drive a Acura TL right now. We purposefully did NOT get a BMW...so as to avoid the 'image ' pitfall that one particular neighbor is very sensitive to. He is green with envy about what all other neighbor drives...and goes on bad mouthing people who drive cars that he does not have. Would I get a Subaru..? or other Japanese vehicle again? Probably not....we are looking at AUDI....just voting with our dollars...since the Japanese decided to rewrite history and say they did not commit any attrocities during WW II .....yeah...right..!!

highender · July 2005

Hi shifty:

""This is just the "rich fool" argument again, sounds to me; why is the fool spending $70K when everybody knows a Subaru is just as good.

I'm not buyin' that argument because I think it is based on an erroneous premise.

I tend to agree. It is not stupid or foolish to buy a better quality product , if one thinks it is worth the price.... I bought a $23,000 Hyundai in 2000...but it turned out to be a bad buy....the thing depreciates like a used kleenex and has no image, no fun to drive factor. I should have bought a used 911, or 928. for that price..and probably still have some value left after 4 years....

Porsche vehicles tend to hold their value....

and over 67% of all ....ALL .... Porsches ever built..are still running on the roads today. I think that in and of itself speaks volumes not only about the Porsche brand name...but also about the degree of loyalty or addiction of its fans.

Mr_Shiftright · July 2005

My idea of a poseur (good question, glad you asked it!).....hmmmm.....

I guess it's someone who is trying to attain the attributes of the car by osmosis....that is to say, it is someone who wants to be identified with the car without having any of the skills associated with it, with no knowledge of it, and without a clue of what he's getting into.

for instance, a person who wears a black leather jacket to appear "tough" when in fact they would wet their pants if you shouted at them in the library. Extreme case, but...

So, someone driving a Ferrari at 35 mph while grinding gears, or (as I read in a magazine), a stockbroker who buys a long-hair wig and leathers and hops on his Harley to go seven miles to the bar at the beach.

the "real" Ferrari owner would be competent, a better than average driver, maybe even one taking training. He would buy a Ferrari IN SPITE of what he knows about it---you know, like the way your wife loves you :P He would do club events, know the history of the car, get involved in the maintenance end of it. Like that.

the "real" Harley owner would drive rain or shine with bugs in his teeth and newspaper stuffed down his shirt to keep warm, no fairing, and sans $2,500 worth of fashion gear.

Well maybe there are meat-fisted grampas driving Porsches at 22 mph in mall parking lots in OTHER parts of the country, but where I live I don't see that. It's left lane, high speed, engine cookin', that's what I experience. Also I'm on my 6th Porsche, so I do know the cars pretty well and those who drive them, at least up to the 993s. I'm a bit weak on 997s etc. so won't speak for those cars or those drivers.

highender · July 2005

Cars, like golf clubs are a very personal thing .... you need to drive em', you need to take them out and see if you like the way they turn or the way they stop, maybe it's the horsepower, maybe it's the trunk room that leaves you cold, perhaps you don't like console set-up, maybe the contour of the seats drives you crazy ...

agree

Like golf, all the "Pro's" in the world can't see what you see - and feel what you feel .. and cars, like golf is a very feely touchy thing, one mans Driver is another mans Broomstick ..... just like when the new car reviews come out, same goes for the golf reviews .. they flood into Edwin Watts, Golf Galaxy or whatever the super store is in their area and they are grabbing that new driver or wedge and out the door they go ..l..o..l..... .. reviews are fine .. but as in cars, you need to drive, play, feel, touch, caress it -- then make a decision ....... thats why I always say: Buy and drive what you like ............................

amen to that..brother....

I agree 100%

I see alot of people on this saying something like..."for $70,000 , I could get a WRX and a minivan , and have money left over....." then You would have a WRX and a minivan....not a bad experience...but definitely not the Porsche experience either.....

I feel like saying " well, for $70,000, I can get a moped, a bike, and still have $68,000 in the bank...so there....

highender · July 2005

Hi BOB:

I meant that you would have a SUBARU if you bought one....if you read any negative connotations in it...could it be that you T?HINK subaru's are any less of a vehicle than a Porsche ??

""For many a Subaru is just as good, maybe even better.

yes....I agree..in many people's eyes, Subaru's are just as good, maybe even better....

I find that comment offensiveand it reeks of snobbery""

I hope not to offend you...but just was telling it like what I thought it is......I mean, this is a forum about Porsche being a good car company....so expect some people to say good things about it...

You know, this is beginning to sound like the FX45 vs Cayenne vs BMW vs etc/....forum.....where one person(corkfish) said that the SUBARU should be compared with the vehicles above...and most people said it did NOT belong....

then post numbers 19 to 20 on that forum, one person said with the money spent on a Cayenne, he could have bought 3 Forresters.....
and one poster replied :

" then you would have 3 identical Subarus...why ? "

so my statement was just a play on what arhfx45 said to that poster , on that forum....that is all...

if it offended you, then please do not take any offense...since none was intended...

maybe I was being glib too.....

highender · July 2005

LOL.....

""Tell that to Highender, not me. ""

now , are you saying that you don't care about image at all ?

I usually think that image is part of the car buying experience...people care about what color it is....even though a pink pimp mobile will get you to point B just as well as a subaru.....

highender · July 2005

Oh, wait... I see what you mean..

I guess I'm a little bit of a snob, too.. I feel superior because I don't care what other people think of my car...

My wife keeps wanting me to cheer for her home state university's sports teams... "But, I cheer for your team".

Fine, but I couldn't care less if you didn't... I know my team is best... your opinion is not important..

We get along really well..

LOL....you are funny.... !

You are candid and honest....

OK...since with kyfdx leading the way...

I must admit....I am a snob...sorry about it....at least we can all be honest and examine our true innermost wants of image....

highender · July 2005

you guys are all right , in your own way.

......

I think Cayenne is a great vehicle....not withstanding it being a pain in many 911 aficionados' back....

boxster is great handling...but it is entry level ....not a 911...

I love the 928....because it seats four... I guess you have to be single or couple with no kids to be in a 911....it is just hard to get family of 4 in a 911....

so we chose cayenne....and got 4 in their ..... and preserved some performance for the driver (me) ...so that I don't fall asleep driving a minivan among the thousands of minivans ( not that there is anything wrong with them)

I could get a 911...but decided not to.....Just not as practical at this stage in life....maybe I can get a used one when the kids get old enough to drive themselves....

I think the panorama 4 door Porsche sedan should fly ...

what do you guys think ?? is it the abomination similar to cayenne or boxster ?

I applaud Porsche for going into the market for families...just think they got into it too late....sorry....but people have families....and still want a great driving experience....jsut my opinion....

lemmer · July 2005

This is good stuff.

In support of Terry's thesis, my hairdresser has a Harley,a 4Runner and is now shopping for a used 911. He lives downtown in a loft, so these vehicles probably see a maximum of about 20 mph for 99% of the time.

scott1256 · July 2005

in silver is pictured at the link below (scroll down a bit).

It has a strong Porsche/911 family resemblance. I think the car will be a success - a sedan is a car, not an SUV.

http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?DID=RSS&n=173&sid=173&article=8988

Mr_Shiftright · July 2005

Here's the photo from the link scott posted:

The Hairdresser's 911: Well if he/she really drives that 911 at 20 mph all day, it's just going to die. It's like putting a panther in a NY apartment. It will mope, waste away and eventually become vicious. Flat engines hate storage or short trip driving--it's especially hard on them I think--and dry sump engines have no way to drain fuel or water dilution.

kyfdx · July 2005

I understand how Porsche purists hate the Cayenne.. but, I don't know how you could look at this picture and have reservations about Porsche doing a 4-door.. Wow!!

Maserati can hang it up with the Quattroporte, if this comes out..

fintail · July 2005

I think that car will do very well. There are many shots of it on the web...if only it was slated to be more affordable!

scott1256 · July 2005

the target price is $125,000 for the base and $175,000 for the turbo model.

Might be a little high relative to the Carrera.

Is AWD standard?

Mr_Shiftright · July 2005

I got no problem with the 4-door at all. Wasn't me offering objections. If Porsche made pickup trucks to keep the 911 heritage alive, fine with me.

The ONLY thing I would object to is cheaping the marque, that is, marketing cars under $30,000.

kyfdx · July 2005

Well. I wouldn't mind if they just sold me one for under $30K..

rsholland · July 2005

If Porsche made pickup trucks to keep the 911 heritage alive, fine with me.

Could well happen, as I understand VW is flirting with the idea of a pickup based off the Touareg.

Bob

kyfdx · July 2005

Could happen... The Touareg is basically a RWD based vehicle, right? I think that would work a lot better than the FWD-based Honda Ridgeline... I think towing and hauling capabilities should be higher...

I can't imagine how much that might cost, though....

regards,
kyfdx

Mr_Shiftright · July 2005

Maybe a VW turbo diesel mini-truck would be good. But I think I'd burst out laughing if I saw a Porsche pickup actually.

Drove a 996 turbo today. Man, the car feels like it was cut from one piece of high alloy steel. Pretty amazing. I'd be on a chain gang within a week in that thing.

Porsche - the world's best car company.

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