Subaru Forester

ateixeira · March 2006

I think it'll be offered on the 07 'beca.

-juice

p0926 · March 2006

While I can't comment on whether you'll notice a difference in power (the manual will give you more control though), living at that elevation makes you an excellent candidate for the XT

I know it costs more but one test drive where you get to experience effortless uphill passing without the need to downshift will make you want to shell out the extra bucks

-Frank

p0926 · March 2006

A buck ninety-nine ice scraper does a great job on the outside glass, nor does it require 160+ horsepower to operate.

As for the inside, a clean windshield won't frost up if you don't bring extra moisture into the cabin with you. Taking a big steaming open mug of coffee to sip during the daily morning commute is a very effective way to humidify the air and frost up the inside of the windshield.

All true but being able to dash from the warm confines of a house and immediately jump into a toasty warm car on a very cold morning does sound extremely attractive

-Frank

damish003 · March 2006

That coffee mug is NOTHING compared to snow on the bottom of your boots. Tracking in snow, leaving the car overnight, and then getting back in the morning shows all kinds of moisture inside the windshield if you make a habit of it. Clean them boots.

-Dan-

dirtbag · March 2006

quote:

"A buck ninety-nine ice scraper does a great job on the outside glass, nor does it require 160+ horsepower to operate.

As for the inside, a clean windshield won't frost up if you don't bring extra moisture into the cabin with you. Taking a big steaming open mug of coffee to sip during the daily morning commute is a very effective way to humidify the air and frost up the inside of the windshield."
______

Try living at 8000 feet in the Colorado Rockies without a garage for one winter season and see what you think then. You don't know what you're talking about in this regard.

The fact is cars, on occasion, need to be warmed up before they can be driven. Having a remote starter would allow me to start up the car from my third floor condo and have it warmed up five minutes later when I drive away. I'm all for saving fuel but comments such as yours are unnecessary. I know what an ice scraper is.

My original question was: has anyone noticed a difference in performance between the manual and automatic 2.5X Forester since I'm thinking about getting a remote starter? I get: buy yourself an ice scraper.

turboturtle · March 2006

I've been offered a new 2006 Subaru Forester LL
Bean Edition with Popular Equipment Group 1 (MSRP
$27,809) for $26,112. This does NOT include a rebate.

Two dealers and Edmunds say that dealer invoice is $25,812 for this model, package and destination.

According to another dealer who does not have any LL Beans available, this is $300 over invoice and a fair price. This dealer also said, if he had a LL Bean available, he wouldn't go less than one percent over invoice.

Comments/suggestions?

raybear · March 2006

No, like I said I walk outside to warm it up...but I can assure you that there is a remote starter offered, at least here in New England on the Forester. It's usually installed at the Port. The dealer I work for installs both the factory system and a less expensive aftermarket one, depending on how it's negotiated.

dirtbag · March 2006

quote:
"The dealer I work for installs both the factory system and a less expensive aftermarket one, depending on how it's negotiated."

--Thanks. I'll inquire at a different dealer.

growler5 · March 2006

The only thing we heard in relation to rationalizing your need for remote startup was "I find it difficult to drive two miles when the windshield is frosted up, inside and out." Nothing about cold-start driveability.

Thanks for the clarification re: warmup.

thecat · March 2006

Wow, haven't been over here in Subie land for quite a while.

FYI Fitzgerald has several Beans with a MSRP of $27,774 (don't know what the couple of buck difference would be) at an internet price of $24,086. That may include the rebate.
- hutch

raybear · March 2006

Do that; they probably don't offer either one.

ateixeira · March 2006

I like the Bean but IMO the X Premium is a better value. For about $2 grand less you really only give up leather. OK, self-leveling shocks for the rear and that rubberized cargo area, but some might consider the carpeting on the X an upgrade.

Oh, and that wood/leather steering wheel.

-juice

jpfkk · March 2006

By way of background, I drive an 06 Forester XT (loaded with every accessory Subaru makes). I wanted to give the gang here a heads up on an interesting problem with the glass on my sunroof.

Picked up the XT in December (third upgrade of a Forester, which I do every two years or so).

In February I noticed a small crack in the sunroof--the crack runs across a corner from side to side. Reviewed with the service manager at my first oil change (I only drive on weekends). He said he's seen this happen several times. This is not a defect, however, it just appears that with a sunroof that is that big (and it is a size that I absolutely appreciate), you can get some movement in the glass (large piece) and some movement in the body of the car, hence, causing a crack.

Of course, the dealer was wonderful and said it was clearly covered under warranty and has ordered another piece of sunroof glass at no cost to me.

Overall, this can happen and it is not Subaru's fault. I am very pleased at how the dealer is handling and it doesn't change my view of the Forester. This is my third Forester and I am a big fan of the car (in fact, I have posted that after having tested the Forester against the BMW X3, the Land Rover and others, I really feel the Forester is, pound for pound, a much better car).

Just wanted to post this here. Worth everyone who owns a Forester peeking at the glass on the sunroof while they are still under warranty.

Just thought I would post so folks could be aware.

richyoung · March 2006

Greetings all!

To cut to the chase, I purchased a 06 Forester X - and I am very happy with it - actually, more like ecstatic. Be that as it may, I always wanted a sun/moonroof. Many think this is frivolous for the 14 days of constant sun that we get in Chicago - but you know, I am just wondering...should I just forget about it since it would be cost (and warranty prohibitive)? or have any of you done this, and can offer me any insights? I will try to offer more info if that is necessary. Thanks for any assistance!

Peace,
Rich

ateixeira · March 2006

First off, congrats!

I put in an ASC moonroof, installed for $375 (they charged a little extra since mine had roof rails). It's a simple pop-up type.

My wife has a power roof in her Legacy, it's the model 750. Neat thing is it has one-touch open and close, plus you can program it to close when you remove the key. Her was $895 IIRC, it's been a while.

-juice

richyoung · March 2006

Thanks, Juice - I have heard so many dire warnings about aftermarket moonroofs that I almost backed down a bit. I live in lovely Chicago, with all its weather craziness. Am I still in good position to get one - or the weather extremes a bad omen? Also, would it be good to get this done via the dealer?

Thanks again,
Rich

ateixeira · March 2006

Most of the time dealers merely make arrangements, i.e. they're the middle man. The advantage is you can roll the amount in to the loan if you need to anyway.

-juice

richyoung · March 2006

thanks! I will pursue this, I think.

subearu · March 2006

I had an ASC ASI 840 FF put in my '04 F-XT and love it. It is not as big as the OEM roof, but the OEM doesn't tilt (or at least it didn't). No problems here in SE Wisconsin with it.

-Brian

richyoung · March 2006

Thanks for the information, neighbor to the north!

p0926 · March 2006

I got an aftermarket sun/moonroof installed last summer and have zero regrets (I think it's the same model as Brian's). While it's obviously not as big as the factory one, it does have some nice features that the factory one lacks (tilt + auto open & close).

I've never heard of a sun/moonroof causing any new car warranty issues.

Oh and since you already have your Forester, I don't see any advantage in going thru the dealer. If you were still in the negotiating stage, then yes you might have gotten a discounted price and could have rolled the cost into the loan. Now however, you more than likely can get a better deal by eliminating the middle man and dealing directly with the installer.

-Frank

richyoung · March 2006

Thanks for the information. I am looking at Hollandia brand. We'll see how that works.

Thanks again for taking the time to assist.
Rich

dt63944 · March 2006

Interesting...I only had one Forester with the big sunroof and only had it one year, since I replaced it with my current 04 XT. I feel the same way about the X3; the Forester does everything well and it's a blast to drive. My other car is an 03 BMW M3 convertible and except for the fact that it's a convertible, it's no more fun to drive than the Forester and a lot more expensive, too. I imagine I'll get another Forester (I'm on my third, too), but am unsure about where they intend to change the upcoming model (2007?). I don't like that new corporate front-end one bit...

kdshapiro · March 2006

"My other car is an 03 BMW M3 convertible and except for the fact that it's a convertible, it's no more fun to drive than the Forester and a lot more expensive"

Hmm. The Forester doesn't drive anywhere near as well as the E46 sedan and the M3 is an absolute blast to drive. The Forester absolutely hates the twisties, but it is great in a straight line. Yes, the XT is fast one in a straight line, going level, uphill or downhill. But nothing can match the feel of the M3, one of the best GTs in the world.

dirtbag · March 2006

quote:
"I imagine I'll get another Forester (I'm on my third, too), but am unsure about where they intend to change the upcoming model (2007?)."

Unfortunately, it'll probably get bigger (maybe 2008) like the Santa Fe and the Rav 4. I don't understand the trend toward bigger. Aren't there enough big SUVs already and not enough small ones to choose from?

dstew1 · March 2006

I don't think we'll see the Forester grow in size to quite the extent the Rav4 did; I'm guessing they'll beef it up a few inches in each direction (ideally to make for better rear seat hip and leg room).

Any larger and they'd be stepping on the Tribeca's toes. Toyota had the freedom go so big with the Rav4 only because the Highlander will soon be growing too, and there's also speculation that the next Matrix will expand enough to fill Toyota's small SUV void.

Plus, Subaru's hardly one to tamper with a good thing - in fact, they seem to be comfortable to the point of bordering stagnation. The Forester at its current size has been a solid competitor for 8 years, and we know it's not selling for its looks.

p0926 · March 2006

Add me to the list of people who like the Forester just the way it is

Unfortunately I agree that it will probably get bigger when it's redesigned. While I can understand why some people want more rear leg/hip room, increasing the dimensions (length, width, weight & wheel base) will result in loss of agility & maneuverability

The only thing that might prevent the Forester from becoming ungainly would be that it's still manufactured in Japan and sells overseas where smaller is a more sought after attribute than bigger.

-Frank

au1994 · March 2006

I too think the Forester and Outback, for that matter, are perfectly sized. A few inches here or there would not hurt, but lets hope they do not go the route "compact" trucks have gone in recent years.

Have you noticed how big the Tacoma and Frontier are now? And expensive. If that were a market I was interested in, I'd go ahead and buy a full sized truck.

samiam_68 · March 2006

I think the Forester needs to grow to 180" in length - adding 3" to the wheelbase (smoother ride) and rear seat room (decent legroom), and 2" to the cargo area. It also needs to be 2" wider (with seat-mounted arm-rests) so that passengers don't knock elbows. I think the height is sufficient as is.

A 5-speed automatic (with manual shifting) would be the next logical powertrain upgrade, along with direct injection for both NA and turbo engines (better fuel economy and more power). For the price, which keeps creeping up, options such as NAV and memory seats / mirrors should be made available.

And, Subaru - if you folks are listening, PLEASE fix the hellish climate control, or eliminate it completely!

dstew1 · March 2006

Indeed, several "small" SUVs are heading the direction that compact trucks took with their most recent redesigns. It begins with marketing I'm sure, so that one brand can advertise that theirs is the biggest or has the most room in its class.

However, when we're talking about "small" suvs or "compact" trucks (and compact cars these days, even - the new Civic is not as "compact" as it once was) isn't boasting about who's biggest kind of... uh, dumb? Originally, the purpose of the small/compact lines was to offer a physical and/or economical alternative to their larger counterparts, wasn't it?

I imagine, for instance, when Nissan and Toyota moved their trucks into the "midsize" category (which they essentially created by doing so), they didn't risk losing compact buyers - where else are they going to go now that there aren't any compact trucks - and would manage to wrangle a few full size truck buyers who don't mind giving up a little space. Likewise with the Civic, Honda can market it to current Civic owners who like their cars but might be looking for a little more room when they upgrade.

Let's just hope Subaru doesn't go this route with the Forester.

grahampeters · March 2006

G'day

One of the major attractions of the Subaru is the realtively short length and shorter rear overhangs of the body. Making it too large removes its specal attractiveness on this score.

Cheers

Graham

rsholland · March 2006

Subaru has to weigh as to whether they will gain or lose buyers if they upsize the Forester a bit. My guess is they will gain more than they will lose.

We have an '01 model, and the biggest complaint I hear from my wife is that it is too small.

Bob

nibs · March 2006

I had two of the older Toyota light trucks. I like their size and fit. The bigger Toyotas of today hold no interest for me because of the increase in size.

I agree that the Forrester needs little. I would like the 5sp auto and a little more room up front for us bigger guys though. A telescopic steering wheel would be great with audio controls mounted on it. A sport shift tranny would be a good addition too.

rsholland · March 2006

My guess is the Forester will get all those items in MY08, when it gets redesigned.

Bob

ateixeira · March 2006

Personally, I hope they go with a two-size strategy, just as Toyota has done for their RAV4. Europe gets a SWB model, and the US gets only the LWB model. They look similar, but look closely and you'll see the US model is stretched about a foot.

I say make the next Forester about 2" wider, as mentioned above, so the center arm rest can take two elbows, and my wife and I don't fight over it.

The SWB model should grow only a tiny bit, maybe to 102" or so, all gains in the back seat area. It should drive and feel a lot like today's Forester, only a tad roomier.

The LWB model would have a wheelbase stretch to about 110-112". Yes, that's longer than the Tribeca, but the Grand Forester isn't going after the same "premium" customer and could potentially do a lot more volume.

I'd even like to see them squeeze in a small 3rd row, with an Outback-style hump in the roof to create headroom for the 3rd row, all masked by a roof rack.

RAV4 was in short demand even before the V6 model arrived, and even though the rear door still swings open the wrong way and the spare blocks your view out. Toyota did well but left plenty of room for improvement.

-juice

dstew1 · March 2006

For a company that seems intent on limiting the amount of variety offered to the customer, I think Subaru would be pretty reluctant to offer two WB versions of the Forester.

On the other hand, if they had the stones to go through with it, I think they could easily see record sales.

dirtbag · March 2006

There are plenty of big SUVs out there to choose from. Why ruin a good thing? The Forester is small, fuel efficient and just perfect for those of us who don't need to carry a lot of people around. Having just stepped up from a compact car, I can't imagine driving anything bigger than the Forester. Now that the RAV 4 has been enlarged, there's not much to choose from in the small SUV category.

I say all this, not to be argumentative, but in case Subaru is watching. I vote for the Forester to stay just as it is.

ateixeira · March 2006

If they had to choose one or the other, sure, stick with the small formula, which has worked well for them.

But I still say offer both wheelbases.

-juice

bayview6 · March 2006

Frank, the 2008 Forester will be manufactured in the USA.

My guess is that the Forester will be about the same size because the EPA will start posting real-world mpg numbers while at the same time mpg standards for that type of vehicle will become tighter.

ateixeira · March 2006

I'm not sure that it will (be built at SIA), now that Toyota is moving in. They won't have the capacity. That was probably only one alternative.

Mileage standards may actually change and be according to wheelbase and length, so if anything that implies the opposite, that it would be better for Subaru to let it get bigger so the MPG allowance is relaxed.

-juice

bayview6 · March 2006

But the fact remains that with the new epa mpg figures, the 2008 Forester will not likely sell well In the USA if the vehicle gets worst mpg than the 2007. BTW, I expect the 2007 Foresters to have City MPG of 20 and Highway MPG of 25. So, reducing those numbers further will hurt sales especially if price of petrol remains at $60 a barrel , let alone goes to $80.

I hope that they continue to manufacture it in Japan. If production stays there then I would expect a same size (or very slight increase in wheelbase) Forester.

dt63944 · March 2006

Maybe it's because I got it with the SMG...in theory it's interesting to have a very aggressive automatic that isn't actually an automatic, but it's also not very refined. I wish I had gotten the 6-sp "true" manual, but the SMG sounded like a good compromise between auto and manual and unfortunately there were no SMG demo's available. I do believe, when the versatility and price are factored in, the XT is just as much fun as my M3; in good conditions, of course the M3 could outperform the XT, but in many not-so-good conditions the XT is the only fun choice I have. Nice to see we at least enjoy both Subaru's and BMW's!

kdshapiro · March 2006

Of course when you factor in the value aspect, the Subie probably wins. But as I noted some posts back:

1. the climate control system is frustrating,
2. lack of steering wheel controls drives me crazy,
3. piston slap is normal,
4. I miss the leather,
5. not enough controls are lit up and the interior is very dark,
6. the headlights don't stay on for a period of time,
7. not real thrilled about the frameless windows,
8. missing some sort of stability control, which the competition has,
9. big mistake the lack of a 5 speed tranny,
10. passenger seat manual (to be expected),
11. IMO interior noise is a bit much at times,
12. could be more stable going faster than 100+.

Of course some very positive points,

1. high safety ratings and high reliability ratings,
2. AWD is great,
3. nice acceleration,
4. comfortable steering wheel and seats,
5. decent radio with subwoofer and 6 cds,
6. dimming mirror with homelink and compass built-in (pay extra for homelink on BMW)
7. the vehicle itself is roomy enough and versatile,
8. great sunroof,
9. windshield ice melter is novel.

zymrugy13 · March 2006

I have the same issue with my 06 forester manual as well.
I would be driving along and then the car would start to throttle (bog or rev), the cruise light and check engine would start to flash. I would bring it in to the dealer and they could never really tell what happened they would reset the computer, has one else had this issue I would like to see if it is me or just bad luck it has happened three times. I would like to hear the feedback

garpenlov · March 2006

I'm looking to purchase a 2.5X and was wondering if I could avoid purchasing the "premium package". I went down the list of items, and the only thing I wasn't familiar with was the "Viscous-type limited-slip rear differential". Can someone help me understand if I really need it?

Currently I live and drive in Florida, but I'll be moving to New England (which is why I'm considering a Subaru) before the end of the year (just in time for winter).

Thanks for your help.

billsolo · March 2006

Hey jef64, has this condition been resolved? Can you please provide an update? I'm planning to buy a new Forester '06 manual next week.

Thanks

ateixeira · March 2006

Why would the 07 drop to 20/25? It's 23/28 now.

kdshapiro: a couple of thoughts on...

6. the headlights don't stay on for a period of time,

Yes but it does have a parking light.

7. not real thrilled about the frameless windows,

The B-pillars are nicely reinforced, as per this pic.

-juice

p0926 · March 2006

1. the climate control system is frustrating, - Agreed, in fact I just leave mine in manual mode
2. lack of steering wheel controls drives me crazy, - Can't say it drives me crazy since I've never owed a car with steering wheel controls but agree that they'd be a welcome addition (as would a telescoping feature)
3. piston slap is normal, - Well yes and no... if yours does it, Subaru will tell you it's normal but certainly not all Subarus have piston slap
4. I miss the leather, - ???
5. not enough controls are lit up and the interior is very dark, - Agree that dash lighting could use some improvement (although don't the 06s have new gauges?)
6. the headlights don't stay on for a period of time, Pretty nit-picky but sure, a time-delayed off feature would be nice.
7. not real thrilled about the frameless windows, - I don't mind them at all
8. missing some sort of stability control, which the competition has, - You could argue that the Forester doesn't need stability control as much as some but I suspect that the Forester will be getting it in the next redesign
9. big mistake the lack of a 5 speed tranny, - Hey I've got a 5-speed tranny

Oh.... you mean a 5-speed automatic :P Sure and Subaru should add a 6-speed manual while they're at it
10. passenger seat manual (to be expected), - Keep adding nice to haves and pretty soon the FXT will cost as much as an X3!
11. IMO interior noise is a bit much at times, - The Forester does well for its class but it's certainly no luxury sedan in terms of quietness
12. could be more stable going faster than 100+. - Somehow I don't see this as something Subaru is overly concerned about

-Frank

kdshapiro · March 2006

"10. passenger seat manual (to be expected), - Keep adding nice to haves and pretty soon the FXT will cost as much as an X3!"

LOL. Right about that.

"12. could be more stable going faster than 100+. - Somehow I don't see this as something Subaru is overly concerned about

"

That last one was a bit tongue-in-cheek. But out of the above list of nits and wants. I find these to be my real beefs.

1. Dimly lit interior and lack of lighting on buttons.
2. Lack of 5 speed automatic.
3. Lack of stability control.

Overall I can't really fault the Forester. For it's price point it has a lot of value. But I would gladly shell out a couple of extra dollars if the above items were options.

raybear · March 2006

Limited slip is like the old positraction, it locks up both rear wheels so they turn at the same rate when there is slippage, allowing the wheel with grip to take control (or at least for them to spin together).

Subaru Forester

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