Subaru Forester

once_for_all · May 2006

well if they can keep the gas turbos inside their gasket then they have a good start on the diesels

Owen, the diesel boxer train of thought probably goes back to one of Bob's blogs which start us talking about the engine configuration. I can't imagine a non-boxer ever working in a Subaru, but on the other hand that is just a partially educated speculative guess (a SWAG in other words).

John

tifighter · May 2006

Here's one of the last things I recall reading about the Subie diesel-

Linky

I know I have read a more in depth article, I just have to find it...

ozman62 · May 2006

John,
The info I read was actually a from a Subaru press release, I believe. There's quite an extensive thread over on 'Nasty-oc' about Subaru's diesel plans. Check the News and Rumors forum. It sounds like they're shooting for a 2008 release in Europe, but have no confirmed plans for a North American debut. So it's not vaporware, there's actually prototypes running around, apparently they're trying to iron out manufacturing processes. Hopefully we'll see turbo boxer diesels in North America within a few years. Can you spell 'torque'? I'm definitely intrigued.

Regards,
Owen

ateixeira · May 2006

Let's see it...I can't wait to drive it. Some of the newer diesels really Wow the press.

-juice

nhnissaninva · May 2006

fwiw, my MP3 player with the built in FM transmitter came in a couple days ago. This thing (Lexar LDP-600) works great in everyway. Little tricky to navigate but no glitches or lockups so far. I did do the firmware upgrade right off the bat. Quick and easy way to get MP3 playback into a Forester or any vehicle with FM radio but no audio in jack. Sound quality over FM is down a notch from broadcast quality, but just fine for 50 year old ears. Just Google it for reviews, $60-$100 at on line vendors, many at Ebay.

bayview6 · May 2006

From what I've read, one has to drive a diesel car about 40k to 50k a year to make up for the cost difference between a gasoline and a diesel engine. I hope that Subaru is also working on a hybrid design because a 2 cylinder boxer engine is all that a plug-in hybrid would need.

kdshapiro · May 2006

Doesn't the same type of logic apply to a hybrid? Lexus 330 vs 400h? $10,000 difference is a lot of gasoline. And at the end of the day an ecological nightmare to dispose of the battery, and much more maintenance involved with the electronic componentry.

Diesel is a better overall short term solution.

bayview6 · May 2006

>

Not sure of the difficulty in recycling the batteries from dead hybrids or their long-term maintenance issues. But you make a good point that both diesels and hybrids cost more than a regular gasoline engine car.

One good aspect of plug-in hybrids is that they can get a lot of their energy from coal-fired power plants, thereby reducing our dependence on foreign oil, and they use a lot less gasoline. Diesels have bio-diesel fuel going in their favor.

ateixeira · May 2006

Per year, or miles overall to make up that difference?

I believe a diesel usually costs a grand or two more than a similar gas model.

In Mercedes' case, the E class diesel is only $1000 more, doen to $900 if we look at invoice prices. 27/37 mpg is impressive, too.

The break-even point obviously varies a lot as gas prices fluctuate, and of course diesel varies less, so around here it costs more or less depending upon the location. It's really hard to get a precise break-even point, but you don't need 40/50k miles per year to reach it.

-juice

bayview6 · May 2006

Just relying on what a car salesman told me 10 years ago. I guess the price difference back then was a lot higher, (and the dollar worth more). If Subaru can sell a Forester with a diesel engine for $900 more than a gasoline one, then a lot of people will be going diesel.

ateixeira · May 2006

That's a long time, I think the biggest change is that diesel fuel itself used to cost more than even regular gas.

Now it's about the same. And diesel actually costs less than premium fuel now, even in my region where diesel is relatively expensive.

For that Benz, you spend less to fill up, then travel nearly twice as many miles on that same tank. So the fuel bill is cut in half. I'm sure you can break even in a year or so, depending on how many miles you drive.

Now, for Subaru, it's going to be tougher. The Forester is efficient to begin with, 23/28 mpg. Plus the $900 extra represents about a 5% increase in the cost, much more than for the Benz (closer to 2%), and it's in a segment that is more cost conscious.

-juice

drohrer · May 2006

Does Subaru go through design changes on a pretty regular cycle?

I'm wondering when the Forester got or will get it's next update.

We really love the Subaru technology, but are having a hard time fitting in their vehicles.

My wife and I are both over 6ft tall and my daughter is fast approaching it. The current version of the Forester is just too small. Driver's space is tight for us and the rear seat doesn't work.

So is there a redesign/update in the works?

rsholland · May 2006

Usually 5-year cycles. Expect a new Forester for 2008.

Bob

dirtbag · May 2006

quote: "My wife and I are both over 6ft tall and my daughter is fast approaching it. The current version of the Forester is just too small. Driver's space is tight for us and the rear seat doesn't work."

So, Subaru should ruin the Forester just to fit you? No offense, but get a Yukon. Some of us like small vehicles and are tired of automotive manufacturers thinking bigger is always better. The Forester is one of the last reasonable sized SUVs, that is affordable with good fuel economy.

dstew1 · May 2006

Your response is a bit harsh, dirtbag; I didn't get the impression that drohrer was trying to "ruin the Forester" for his own personal needs.

Personally I'm a fan of smaller vehicles, the Forester included - but admittedly the Forester is among the smallest in its class. Better handling and safety are a sure benefit of this. But lately there has been quite a bit of interest in making the next model a bit roomier, perhaps with separate SWB and LWB versions (dreamers will dream), so he is not alone. Also, growing a little wouldn't necessarily put it in Yukon territory.

Considering drohrer's appreciation of Subaru technology, the Tribeca might've been a better suggestion for them. It offers more room and would keep them in the family. Suggesting a Yukon in a Subaru forum is just plain rude.

Doug

driver56 · May 2006

I don't own a Forester, but when I pass one on the street I find myself thinking of possible design changes. Having driven one recently, I again thought of the possibilities (practical and aesthetic). Maybe a couple inches wider, a half foot longer, a tad less boxy? And Subaru could certainly make them snazzier. That said, I would like to see the next generation Forester up-sized. Toyota has with the new Rav, and Honda will be sure to follow with their Crv. Still relatively compact, and bound to do well.
I think that Subaru could make a great car greater.

dirtbag · May 2006

Perhaps my response was a bit harsh and written in haste. My point, lost in the haste, was that there are lots and lots of medium and large SUVs to choose from and very few small ones. In my hunt for an economical SUV, I found five or six. That narrows to about three if you don't like the spare tire hanging on the back end.

Toyota upsized the RAV4 recently and I was disappointed. They apparently improved fuel economy at the same time. Just think what they could have done with fuel economy if the car was still smaller.

Not everyone is over six feet tall. (I'm six feet even.) Some of us fit just fine in the Forester and think it's nearly perfect. I agree that there could be a couple more inches of leg room in the back seat. That could probably be done by simply moving the rear seat back. Frankly, it's not an issue for me because I rarely carry anyone in my back seat. I'd also agree that Forester styling could be improved a bit but I think the '06 is a pretty nice looking car.

For several reasons, I hate the American auto industry trend toward upsizing vehicles. It's wrong from a fuel standpoint. It makes cars less nimble on the road. It makes them more costly to buy and maintain. It makes Americans look bad in the eyes of the world.

If Subaru wants to enter the market with a new larger SUV, so be it. I just hope they leave the Forester at its current size and work on making it even better and more fuel efficient.

au1994 · May 2006

I'll sit firmly on the fence on this issue. There is absolutely a market for small SUV's that the Forester fills nicely and that is why I'm considering one to replace my larger (4Runner) SUV. This day and time, I'd gladly sacrifice a little cargo room for better MPG. If I feel I can't do without the extra cargo room, I'll pick up a cheap utility trailer.

However, a slight, slight, increase in size might improve sales, and allow Subaru to bring more content to the market at an even more competitive price advantage. There are trade offs to increasing in size: price and MPG.

What I do not want to see is the small SUV (CRV, Forester et al) go the way of the compact pick up truck. There is nothing compact about the Nissan Frontier or Toyota Tacoma anymore. Nothing, and that includes the price. Many times now depending on the incentives available, one can get an F-150 for cheaper than a Tacoma. Now, if you are in the market for a truly compact pick up, your options are the Ranger and Mazda clone B Series which have not seen a real update since the first Bush administration.

I hope that this does not happen to the small SUV market. Seems to me that this is a growth market and manufacturers would be working harder to exploit that rather than thinking how they can add inches and pounds to the vehicle.

Just my .02.

stever · May 2006

People everywhere are getting bigger, and not just their weight. The height demographics are, er, rising too. Blame it on cheap subsidized feed corn I guess.

Subaru may be thinking it's going to have to follow that market or lose sales to the Yukons.

Great point about compact pickups; some of us also bemoan the loss of short wheel base minivans.

Steve, Host

rsholland · May 2006

Now that every manufacturer is "upsizing" their pickups, Subaru drops the Baja, rather than upgrading it and fixing some of its shortcomings... With all the trucks getting larger, and gas prices skyrocketing, I'm convinced there isnow more than evera market for a truly compact truck, even a car-based one.

Oh well, here's another example of a lost opportunity.

Bob

au1994 · May 2006

yep, All of the sudden the El Camino doesn't look so crazy does it?

once_for_all · May 2006

Bob,

Don't get me started on that Baja thread. You know how I feel about that.

Forester is great for a 6'3" guy like me. But I don't have the moonroof in my XS. The mandatory moonroof is the deal killer with the Baja, it takes a good 1 to 2" out of the headroom.

John

ateixeira · May 2006

It has tons of headroom and legroom for the front passenger. The rear is tight for real tall folks, but how often do you cart around an NBA team?

Any how, the market cares, so Subaru ought to respond. Rumor has it the next Impreza will have the same wheelbase as the current Legacy, so I expect the Forester to get the same, at least, in terms of wheelbase.

A little longer, a little wider, but keep it boxy! These round SUVs have less useful space. I believe in CR's biggest box test, the Forester actually fits MORE capacity than the much-bigger Tribeca, because it's boxy.

Boxy is good.

-juice

dirtbag · May 2006

quote: "People everywhere are getting bigger, and not just their weight. The height demographics are, er, rising too. Subaru may be thinking it's going to have to follow that market or lose sales to the Yukons."

I'm a six foot guy and don't have the seat all the way back when driving my Forester. Surely the car is big enough for those taller than me. I hope Subaru realizes they have a good thing. I'd bet gasoline in the U.S. will be six bucks per gallon by the end of the decade. When that happens, there won't be many people buying Yukons and Hummers.

ateixeira · May 2006

Same here, I'm 6' even and I'm usually one or two detents forward from the all-the-way-back position. My wife places the seat well forward of mine.

Here is some useless data for you folks I gathered a while back:

Front Rear Vehicle
43.6 33.7 Forester
41.4 30.6 Grand Vitara (now that's tight)
42.3 32.6 RAV4 (also very tight)
40.2 35.8 X3 (less total combined legroom)
41.6 36.3 Escape/Tribute (just 0.6" more comibined)
41.3 39.4 CR-V (best back seat, cramped front)
41.0 39.1 Element
41.6 36.8 Santa Fe
42.1 37.2 Tucson/Sportage (beats Santa Fe!)
40.8 37.2 Liberty (cramped front)
41.8 36.8 Freelander
42.3 35.5 Outlander
41.2 36.8 Vue

Some are older models, the RAV4 for instance. The Grand Vitara and Tucson/Sportage as well, they've been redesigned since I compiled that list.

Any how, SURPRISE, the Forester has the *most* leg room in its class for the front-seat passengers. The X3 gives up more than 3 full inches!

-juice

stever · May 2006

How does your Miata compare to those? You can skip the back seat, lol.

There's also the Best Vehicles for Taller/Larger Drivers discussion but I think it's geared more towards sedans.

Steve, Host

drohrer · May 2006

We looked at the Tribeca, I love the Tribeca. My daughter loves the Tribeca. My wife didn't like the sight lines or the small rear window.

I really don't know how you six footers fit in the Forester. I couldn't get the seat back far enough or the steering wheel off my thighs. As for the back seat, it was really cramped for my daughter.

I'm not talking about Yukonizing it, just make the back seat livable for someone over the age of five.

I'm surprised by the front leg room number juice posted. I'll have to go test drive one again. It really seemed tighter than that.

growler5 · May 2006

Height ain't the only thing, it's how the height is distributed between legs and torso.

If you got long legs, you'll need to put the seat back further than the average person, and it's possible the seat track doesn't go back far enough.

If you have short legs / long torso, you'll put the seat up closer to the steering wheel. And you just might run out of head room since a some car seats tend to rise to a higher height as you slide the seat forard.

One thing that's easily overlooked - the up'n'down adjustment of the driver's seat. Easily overlooked, and can make a big difference in comfort. Problem is, on the Subie FXS, I don't think the manual passenger seat has the up'n'down of the motorized driver's seat. If that's the case, the driver might be able to find a comfy position but the passenger cannot.

au1994 · May 2006

very good point. Also along those lines, is your preferred driving position. Some prefer to sit very upright some prefer to 'lounge' almost as if you are laying down.

My dad is over 6ft and hates riding/driving in my 4Runner. Swears he just doesn't fit. Yet, I know others of a similar size that fit in just fine.

ateixeira · May 2006

The Miata has, oh, estimating here, about ZERO inches.

Seriously, I had to adjust the seat track with spacers PLUS I have to wear small shoes. My inseam is just 30" so I do not have long legs. Tall drivers need not apply for Miata ownership! :sick:

So the Miata would fit someone up to about 29" inseam, ideally.

I'd say the Forester fits people up to around 32" or so inseam. Taller than that and you're gonna have to play with the seat angle and other things, and might not be at your ideal comfort position.

We're all shaped differently, though, so try it before you buy it. A car show is a great place to sample seats.

-juice

stever · May 2006

the up'n'down adjustment of the driver's seat. Easily overlooked, and can make a big difference in comfort

That's one of those options that's fast becoming a necessity. It really helps in my Outback, and seat height adjustment made a cheap Kia Rio rental quite tolerable a while back.

Juice, as I've aged, I've shrunk to perfect Miata inseam size. :shades:

Steve, Host

dirtbag · May 2006

quote: "Some prefer to sit very upright some prefer to 'lounge' almost as if you are laying down."

That's so true. Whenever I get in the driver's seat of my dad's car, I tease him about it. He has the seat tilted so far back I ask him, "what do you think this is, your living room?"

au1994 · May 2006

So true. Dad has always been a fan of the big GM sedans with the huge front bench seat so he could sprawl out and get comfy. I told him he was "gangsta" before "gangsta" was cool. He was not amused.

True story. When he bought his Camry last year (finally caved to the pressure) he asked the salesman if they came with a bench seat!!

jim314 · May 2006

A young male relative of mine uses a gangsta seating position in his Jeep in which the seat bottom as well as the seat back is inclined to the back. He is a 6'1" 240 lb college football linebacker with long arms. Over a period of 5 years this has damaged the linkages under the seat and it's not rigid anymore. A hole that a tube fits in has gotten enlarged. But with my unright seating position the seat is solid.

ateixeira · May 2006

The original Avalon did, come with a bench seat that is. They're pretty rare now, but I'm sure some Lincolns have them.

Forester puts you in an arms-out "Italian" driving position. You sit low, feet forward, as opposed to the bar-stool seating in some taller SUVs.

I prefer it that way, it's more sporting, and you don't see-saw back and forth and get car sick.

-juice

herdingdog · May 2006

Does the forester have the option of using flexfuel blends beyond 5% or 10%. For that matter does any Subaru have the ability to use flexfuel?
Thanks

bayview6 · May 2006

Not to mention the Falcon with a similar confirguation.

samiam_68 · May 2006

Does the forester have the option of using flexfuel blends beyond 5% or 10%.

No. Maximum fuel alcohol content on the Forester is 10%.

mb789 · May 2006

Wanted to add my $.02 --

It is so nice to have a car that fits smaller people. I bought a Forester X in April '06, and I am happy with it so far.

I am only 5' 2", and the Forester is a great fit. Even though it's more like a wagon/car, I have great visibility; I used to have a Jeep Liberty, and I was concerned about visibility when moving to the Forester, but I am not concerned now.

With being 5' 2", the Forester is a better fit than most clothing items! :P Capri pants fit like regular pants, and forget about buying dress slacks and blazers without special ordering and/or extensive tailoring. Yeah for the Forester! It fits!

ben23 · May 2006

Hi, I'm new to this BB, posting from Sunny South Africa.
Recently traded my 2004 XT (Auto) on a 2006 X (Manual).
The cruise control on the X appears to maintain speed at +- 5 km/h, on the XT it was closer to +- 1 km/h. I am somewhat disappointed in this and was wondering whether other users experience similar play in the speed? Is it something that the workshop can attend to with the hope of improving the play?
Thanks in advance for you kind input.

dirtbag · May 2006

The cruise on my '06 is about the same. It does pretty good on level terrain but if I engage it while going downhill the car accelerates. If I engage it going uphill, it will decelerate. I'd say your plus or minus five mph is about right. I have not asked Subaru service about the problem yet but intend to. My guess is that there's nothing they can do about it short of redesigning the cruise control for future vehicles.

bigalbert · May 2006

Some specs and prices (prices same or even slightly lower than MY 2006!) for the 2007 Forester have been posted here

willowct · May 2006

I'm only 5' even and am deciding between a 2006 Forester or a 2006 Outback. The Subaru dealer put them both on equal financial footing for me, so the decision comes down to the fantastic visibility of the Forester or the luxury bells and whistles of the Outback.

Has any one else decided between the two?

aretas · May 2006

Traded my 03 for a new 06 with the doughnut spare. Took my spare (new) from the 03 and dropped it in the 06, fit perfectly.

dirtbag · May 2006

I'd guess you lose the small storage areas underneath the cargo area. Does the cargo area floor have good support on the full-size spare?

ateixeira · May 2006

Thanks for checking. I hope it fits in the next generation model as well.

A full size spare fits in the 2002 Legacy L, I know because I did the same thing.

07 - EDB on the X is nice, but where is VDC? Sportshift? 5 ratios? I hope we get some of those as well.

-juice

fdr1371 · May 2006

I haven't posted much here - but the recent discussion and my experiences have led me to post.

6'-4", 34" inseam - so you do the math. Yes, all torso.

The shopping for a new vehicle came about when gas prices were going through the roof (and hey look, they still are...). Shortly thereafter, my wife and I found out we were pregnant, and the shopping got a bit more urgent.

At about 3-mo., she could no longer comfortably get up into my F-150 4x4. That and a car seat in an extended cab truck just doesn't work too well at all.

Everything I tried was either ok headroom, but no legroom - or vice-versa. Nothing, save a larger SUV, had both. Until I ran across the Forester. It had both - and I was shocked. Yeah the Outback, my nose was about level with the rearview mirror - so no, that didn't quite fit.

Long story short - we ordered an '06 5MT X - pretty much Plain Jane, save the subwoofer and speaker upgrade. I got a steal of a deal, as there date of delivery was severely compromised (say 2 mo. at least).

When I went to trade in my truck (nobody in god's green earth wanted a gas guzzling 5.4L V-8...) the quote between when I first was appraised and when the actual deal went down dropped by over $1.5k. Let's just say I had some "words" with the dealer HMFIC, and they in turn lost a weeee bit of money. But, on to the post.

She's been getting a consistent 22-23 mpg city (my commute to work is about 21 mi RT at about 30-45mph speeds), and 25-26 cty/hwy.

This weekend we had a chance to test her road legs over the Memorial Day wknd. 2 adults, 1 child, 1 baby, gear/clothes/food packed pretty tight in the back, and a cargo hauler on the hitch - stocked w/ a cooler full of food and a second cooler w/ a 12pk beer, and a large milk crate full of misc. itmes for the trip. So we were stocked quite nicely.

On our way to our cabin (190 mi. one way), our speeds were about 65-75 mph on cruise - little to no stopping on the way up - bit more slow and go on the way back. Running w/ the A/C the entire way.

I clocked in at 402 mi on 13.3 gal = 30.2 mpg (just turned about 6k last week) on 89 oct. I was simply shocked!!! Best road mileage I ever got out of my F-150 was 18mpg. On the way up it was low 80s - on the way home it was 95F.

My purchase, along w/ the reasons, has never made more sense than now. I searched long and hard for a vehicle to fit me, my needs (tall being the main one), and my family. I look forward to being one of those guys who clocks in over 200k on his Subi.

Hope this helps anyone needing some real world info.

YMMV

once_for_all · May 2006

FDR,

6' 3" here 34" inseams. Same deal--Forester fits, lots of other cars didn't. And the rear view mirror at eye level has been a deal killer for me too. Echo the mileage-- 30 to 31 on all highway, 27-28 combined.

Enjoy your Forester, there aren't many other packages so nicely adaptable to so many needs.

I love the weatherband, heated seats, and outside temperature gauge--I can do my orchard frost patrol as comfortably as anyone can being outside of bed at midnight.

Then, the AWD, I can measure open fields accurately because there are no traction issues (I have a meter that clocks rear driveshaft rotations).

My hope is that SOA doesn't change the Forester too much in the size department. And, that they bring in a diesel boxer in the next 3 years.

John

ateixeira · May 2006

Tall roof plus no moonroof means acres of headroom. Cool. Congrats.

30+mpg, wow! I've only done it twice or so.

-juice

bayview6 · May 2006

I doubt that you have the new 173 hp engine/auto. I don't get anywhere near that mpg.

Subaru Forester

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