Honda Civic vs Toyota Corolla vs Mazda3

allfiredup · October 2005

Thanks for the info! An improvement of 2 mpg on the highway with the 5AT (versus the 4AT) is pretty good. Now if only Mazda would give the 3 s a 6-speed manual...get the revs at highway speeds and get a few more mpg. I'm sure it would help acceleration times, too (not that they need it).

backy · October 2005

Driving the Corolla makes you feel like you're driving an economy car. A very nice, smooth, refined economy car, but an economy car. And for those of us that Toyota ignored when it designed the driving ergonomics on the Corolla, driving the Corolla can also be literally a pain in the backside (and back, and arms...).

Driving the Mazda3 makes you feel like you are driving a sports sedan. A sports sedan that was obviously designed on a tight budget. But at least the money went into all the right places--engine, suspension, steering, shifting, gauges.

Driving the Civic makes you feel like you are driving an Accord--from the late '80s. But this car is more solid than any Accord of that era. It's peppier. It gets better fuel economy. It has a weird speedo. It's safer and more luxurious. And it costs more. But then, this is 2005, not 1988.

giantkiller · October 2005

At this price range dont you think that people can afford to put the money where their mouth is? Its not not as if where choosing cars between an economy car and a luxury car. Theyre price within 1000-1500 of each other and are classified as ecomy cars. The best car is a compromise between all the qualities of cars in these category/price range.

giantkiller · October 2005

Come to think of it I had an Accord 1989 10 years ago and to say that a Corolla is an economy car compared toa Civic that drives like n an Accord of late 80's is misleading.
Of course the Corolla right now is outclassed by these newly redesigned cars (2004 and 2006 respectively) but it sure doesnt show on the sales figures. Wherever there is Corolla , whether Asia , Europe or Americas the Corolla outsells its competitor. Its because its the best compromise between economy performance, comfort and reliability.

backy · October 2005

My point in saying that driving the Civic is like driving an Accord from the past is that the Civic, to me, doesn't drive like an economy car but one step up from an economy car, and it is about the same size (at least inside) as the Accord from the late '80s. It even has the wedge front end and low profile of the Accord from back then.

I''ve driven lots of current-gen Corollas and to me they do drive like an economy car, albeit a very nice one. That's not a bad thing, and what the Corolla does it does very well. But it doesn't do it much better than other economy cars that cost thousands less.

carguy58 · October 2005

"I'm waiting to see how long it takes the other guys to bring out their copies of the Mazda5. They'll come -- just watch."

He probably means when does the Japanese Big 3 bring a car like the Mazda 5 to American Shores.

carguy58 · October 2005

"Each car company does it own thing. I believe every car company does takes some things from others - that's normal business. Who do you think Mazda took a lot of their ideas from and got to where they are? Probably Toyota and Honda because they are still the leaders in the industry."

I think Mazda and Honda are innovators but Toyota I admit they make good vehicles but they have no innovations. Mazda has the rotary and the Miller Cycle engine and making up the class that would later form the Honda S2K, BMW Z3/4. Honda has the VTEC engines and always make their cars as fuel effecient as possible.

carguy58 · October 2005

"From past experiences with mazdas (my friend's rx-7 and protege and family member's MPV minivan) the engines were a pain to fix, and often showed much more problems on long trips(2 yr old mazda minivan with <50k miles broke down twice while we were passing by tahoe) than Hondas or toyotas, so although qutie reliable, mazda reliability still(as far as self repairs and long term ownership) is still in my opinion, not up to par."

First off the RX-7 had the rotary engine in it that was a pain but that was a long time ago. Consumer Reports from about 1998-2003 lists the 626, Millenia, Miata, and Protege in their used Car best bets list. CR ranks all those models above average in reliability mostly for that particular time period. As far as engine problems didn;t Toyota have sludge problems with their engine a few years ago with the owners complaining? I;m not saying Toyota is a bad company but even Toyota has problems with their engines.

wayoutthere · October 2005

Which one has the highest quality interior (with the fewest sqeaks and rattles)?

carguy58 · October 2005

"The Mazda is slightly different but I don't think it's very unique --I think it's take a lot of its look from the Toyotas, especially the Corolla. They both have a lot of soft rounded corners all over it which makes it look very feminine. I prefer classic lines and more definition."

How does the Mazda 3 take its look from a Corolla. The Corolla the back end looks extemely bland in my opinion where as the the 3 looks "sporty". I see which you are saying that their shape looks alike but the Mazda looks alot better. Your point is well taken thoiugh about the (05)Civic having classic lines though. Honda may not have the sportiest looking cars but their exteriors age well despite me not liking the exteriors of the Accord Sedan and new 06 Civic Sedan. In my opinion the 92-95 and 96-00 Civic's look alot better than the last 2 Civics. The last one was alright however but not as sleek as the 90's model Civic's looked. The new one at least for the Sedan I don't like it.

carguy58 · October 2005

"Mazda typically redesigns its cars every three to four years. Honda has brought their new Civic closer (but still not quite all the way) to the level of the 3. In two short years it'll be time for a redesigned 3 to trounce the Civic all over again. The game goes on ... "

I don;t like to tell this but your are wrong. Mazda only had a 4 yeear model cycle of the Protege/3 once from 1990 on and that was the 95-98 Protege which sold badly. The 90-94 and 99-03 Protege were 5 year model cycles. Honda did 4 year model cycles of the Civic 1992-1995 but switched to 5 yr model cyles there after and it goes like this: 96-00, 01-05 and probably 06-10. I think Civics and Accord's had 4 yr model cycles in the 80's. The Accord's model cycle goes like this: 82-85, 86-89, 90-93, 94-97. Then 5 yr model cycles: 98-02 and 03-07. The Mazda 626 went from 88-92, 93-97, and 98-02.

I am both a Mazda and Honda fan.

backy · October 2005

I've driven all three cars (the '06 Civic only once though) and none had squeaks or rattles. But overall I'd say the Civic and Mazda3 have a more upscale interior than the Corolla. The Corolla has the faux wood trim, but its HVAC controls feel cheap and the rest of the interior is rather plain, IMO. The Civic is full of interesting shapes and textures, while the Mazda3 has the sportiest interior of the bunch. But the big issue with the Corolla is the inexcusable design flaw on the driving position. The Civic and Mazda3 don't suffer from that, and in fact offer telescopic steering wheels to help give every driver a comfortable seating position.

carguy58 · October 2005

"Meade, did you compare these real world figures to the 3s real world figures or EPA numbers?"

"I like the 3, my only concern is the gas mileage, which, even on the i, is no better than my 4 cyl Accord. For some reason, Mazda of late has been lagging on gas mileage, I wonder why. Earlier they used to be righ up there with Honda/Toyota."

thats true even though I do like Mazda their gas mileadge does lag behind Honda and Toyota currently. When I had a 1998 626 it was rated EPA 22/29 city/highway with the 2.0 Liter 4cyl 125 horsepower engine. The Accord for 1998 made 23/30 city/highway and had a 2.3 4 cyl liter engine that made 150 horsepower. Mazda had the same gas mileadge as the Honda at the time but also gave up 25 horsepower. The 98 Nissan Altima had a 2.4 Liter Engine rated at 150 horsepower that made 24/31 city/highway. Even though Mazda's gas miledage on their cars lags behind the competition its still not bad.

sandpaper · October 2005

I test drove all the newest models - 06 corolla, 06 civic, and 06 3 and I came to the conclusion that the 3 is the best of the three. I find that I decide whether I like a car or not within the first 10 seconds of sitting in the interior.

The 06 corolla for some reason offered a very awkward seating position. I think it had to do with the dashboard being too vertical. I agree with backy that the hvac controls felt cheap and faux wood trim was a big no no for a young student like me. overall, the car was simply forgettable and i don't have much to write about it.

The 06 civic was much better - i felt that the interior overall felt very upscale but i just couldn't get over the dashboard. the dashboard was expansive - almost like the 04 RX i drive occasionally. but although the expansive dashboard is welcome in a large SUV, i felt that in a civic, it was plain weird. plus.. i could simply not see the hood! although this probably won't be much of a problem, it just felt awkward. sitting in the back was very comfortable in the civic, and the seats are very comfy and soft. when i sat down, the digital odo didn't bother me, but the way it was setup bothered me. i felt that the bottom console was too low, or something. i'd much prefer a regular dashboard. i really wanted to like the civic and planned to purchase one for msrp as soon as it came out but after i drove the 3 i don't think so.

The 06 3 felt immediately comfortable. unlike the corolla and civic, the seats felt firm and reminded me of the jetta. although i liked the civic's seats, i simply think that firmer seats are better. one thing i found unsettling was that the front left side console below the airbags (i forgot what this was called). although it was very large, the console opener felt very flimsy to me. since the opener is on the left side, i pushed the console and it moved up and down. i'm worried about this because it would be pretty annoying to have it rattle in the years ahead. however, i would say that the 3 i seems to use less satisfactory materials in comparison to the civic. the i seats fabric, especially, felt subpar in comparison to the civic's fabric. But those are small details which i am willing to overlook.

I am getting a 3!

allfiredup · October 2005

You mention driving the 3 i, is that the model you're getting? Are you getting an automatic or manual transmission?

I've come to the same conclusion, the Mazda3 is the car that suits my tastes and driving style the best. I'm getting the 3 s with manual transmission.

I liked the Civic and actually found the interior to be slightly more spacious. The dash was interesting and the materials used were high quality, but I expect a nice set of big dials in front of me in a Honda. The digital speedo just didn't cut it with me. Especially the mix of digital speedo and analog tach. It's just odd to me. But I have simple tastes.

The Toyota doesn't interest me in the least. It's just too numb and isolating (Lexus-like may be a good description, but not a compliment in my book). The interior is just plain boring and compared to the Civic and 3, it feels unresponsive and handles like a Buick.

My vote (and my check) goes to the Zoom Zoom of the Mazda3! If Honda comes up with a Civic Si Sedan in the next year or two, I'd have to think very seriously about a trade-in, though.

sandpaper · October 2005

hey allfiredup, yes; i am getting an 3 i Touring w/ auto. i drove the 3 s also, but felt that the black seats with red trim wouldn't age so gracefully (i'm planning on keeping this car for 5 years). even with the s, i thought the plastics used in the 3 were not as great as those in the civic. but it's nothing i can't deal with!

The funny thing is - people keep saying how much 'sportier' the 3 is. Personally, i am not a very sporty driver myself.. i drive pretty casually and i'm not the type to be speeding or having extreme fun driving. i just want to get from point a to point b. i was telling myself that i needed a simple car like the civic (was thinking of the last gen civic). but no, the 3 simply won me over with it's attractive interior/exterior design. the car seems much more expensive than it's price, and it doesn't hurt that you don't see gazillion of them everywhere.

did you get your 3 yet, or are you still shopping? if you're still shopping, make sure to post something about it in the buy&sell forum if you haven't done so already, i'd love to see what deals others are getting. i'm hoping to get a 3 within 1-2 weeks.

allfiredup · October 2005

I haven't gotten mine yet, but the plan is within two weeks. I was waiting for a dealer near me to finally get a Civic Sedan with manual transmission for me to test drive and they finally did- I drove it on Friday.

I decided that the 3's edge in handling and acceleration were more important than the Civic's comfier interior and better fuel economy.

The 3 i is a great car, I drove one of those also. The 2.0L is plenty quick enough, but I really want the 17" wheels that only come on the s model. I do wish the s was available with a solid black cloth instead of red or blue checks, but I can live with it. I'm planning on getting the Winning Blue, so it will be the blue and black interior.

The best I've been quoted on price is about $800 off MSRP. I'm attending a Mazda Zoom Zoom event on 10/22 and they give out $500 coupons there. So, I should be able to get around $1300 off sticker price.

Be sure you look at several car pricing sites before you buy. Edmunds is obviously a great source, but also check out Kelly Blue Book and CarsDirect. They all give you their own version of current market value.

giantkiller · October 2005

"I think Mazda and Honda are innovators but Toyota I admit they make good vehicles but they have no innovations. Mazda has the rotary and the Miller Cycle engine and making up the class that would later form the Honda S2K, BMW Z3/4. Honda has the VTEC engines and always make their cars as fuel effecient as possible. "
You call yourself "CarGuy"? I think you need to educate yourself on cars a lot more. Rotary engine for your information was patented by Felix Wankel in 1936 but research was made on the engine as early as 19th century.While Honda has VTEC, Toyoa has VVTL-i and dual VVT-i.
There are reason why Toyota is pose to become not only number 1 in Japan but in the world, and there are reason why Nissan is once again number 2 in Japan overtaking Honda and there are reason why Mazda is still under Ford. You cant sell a lot of cars in a technology crazy country like Japan without offering innovation. Educate yourself.

ezpilze · October 2005

Although carguy58 had some factual misunderstandings, I believe you are stepping out of lines with your comments giantkiller. Its true that mazda's rotary engine was developed in Russia I believe and the design was eventually bought, fun historical information that I'm sure maybe some/many people know, but this forum IS about how the mazda 3 compares with the other 2 cars mentioned .

Furthermore, to carguy58, you seem to concentrate your argument over consumer reports. First off, CR ranks all those models above average in reliability mostly for that particular time period I believe I had mentioned that I was ranking long term reliability, not those measly 40-50k miles, but LONG term ownership(please read more carefully) before replying. My friends 626 ranks at 180k miles, and it suffers more common problems than my dads old Toyota T100 at apprx 276k miles, both cars were about within a 2 yr time period. Next, it seems to me that you support most of your argument about mazdas based on consumer reports, Im guessing it is because you dont do maintenance on your own cars because you never mention anything about fixing the cars yourself. Please keep this in mind, CRs DO NOT take any/ take little account as to the level of difficultly it is to fix each type of engine. Rotarys for me sucked, alot, while other mazdas were annoying to fix. I did mention earlier that mazdas in general(for me at least) tended to require more maintenance over toyotas and Hondas, so I wont even bother going in depth with your remark about the Toyota sludge thing(again, please read posts a little more carefully).

sandpaper · October 2005

The thing about CR is that at least they have statistics to support their case. Anecdotes like, "But my second cousin once removed has a worse experience with Mazda than Toyota" are highly folly and wouldn't even be acknowledged during a real debate.

But I agree that CR's statistics does have it's limitations - there are many more variables in measuring reliability than 'problems' per 'vehicle'.

backy · October 2005

Last time I checked, the Mazda3 doesn't have a Wankel engine.

autonomous · October 2005

I decide whether I like a car or not within the first 10 seconds of sitting in the interior.
Hopefully, you test drive the cars as well as sit in them. :P

blane · October 2005

The following is quoted verbatim from a message on another website:

Well I had the Mazda 3 for 4 months,just sold it, and now have a 06 EX sedan.I loved the 3 it at first until 1)the paint started chipping. 2)The weak a/c. 3) Cheap Leather Seats. 4)Cheap carpet. The real deal breaker was I came out of a local mall and found my front fender kicked in. Then I had too get ot replaced and repainted. They tried 5 timed to get the white to match. It turned out a different shade. I finally took it to another shop and had the whole side re done. After that 2 month nightmare, I had lost the love of my Mazda 3...I hope to never have to go through that again.I'll take my 96 Accord to the mall and I'm very happy with the 06 Civic EX, its got more room in the front and rear and the a/c is COOL....also the build quality seems better.Though I would have liked the option of the HID headlights and leather...I guess I'll have to suffer..I parked the new Civic next to a mazda 3 the other day the Civic looks sleekier and more up-to-date IMO...Hope this helps.

autonomous · October 2005

Its true that mazda's rotary engine was developed in Russia I believe
Actually, Mazda, which was known as Toyo Kogyo back then (1960), acquired Felix Wankel's engine from Germany's NSU automobile company and introduced it into its first passenger car, the R360 coupe. Source: Wanda James' Driving from Japan.

joe249 · October 2005

I have one for a week to try.My other two cars are an Accura Type S 6 speed and and my wife's 5 series BMW.
I thought the Mazda 3S would be better on gas milage,but not true.Probably because it's an automatic.The type S gets me better milage and cost me $5.00 a week more to run.The Mazda is a little softer driving and has better ,or the same low end torque.( Type S 91 octane)
However, the Mazda is built cheap, noisy engine and a losy A/C unit and defrost system.My last Mazda was an 88 RX 7 GXL what a fun ride and no problems.I had a RX 7 GS 1983 and a 323 H.B.This is all through med school etc.
Back to the 3S (excuse me, I do know Mazda's) I did like the heated seats though and lumbar support,but it's not worth the money, due to build quality and ride,not to mention how they get you on the options.(priced out at$23,400.00
I'm going to try the Civic w/leather ,nav. ex pkg.If I like it I'll get a lumbar seat and an AEM front seat heaters.
Too bad , I thought the Mazda was a fun ride,However they might have put a little Zoom Zoom in their cars ,but the ride,quality and price drove me away.
Some of you will say keep theType S,and wait for the 07 RSX with a new body style.
A toyota dlr. claims an XLE V6 would be a better deal.
What to do?

kdhspyder · October 2005

>I think Mazda and Honda are innovators but Toyota I admit they make good vehicles but they have no innovations.

Huh? HSD owners wipe the sleep from their eyes and scratch their heads. "What did I just read?" :surprise:

Have a nice day doing some research, mr. carguy?58 sir.

kdhspyder

mdaffron · October 2005

However, the Mazda is built cheap, noisy engine and a losy A/C unit and defrost system.

Please share your data supporting that statement.

I can't hear the engine in my 3s, the build quality is top-notch (and many professional reviews have given it the same comment), my a/c is ice-cold and my defrost system works very well. At 10,700 miles I'm very pleased with this car.

Meade

mdaffron · October 2005

Blane, just curious what your choice of roads, your mall's security and your choice of body shop have to do with the quality of the Mazda3?

Of the complaints you made in your post, the a/c is the only item I can uphold as a reasonable concern with the car, knowing what's been reported here. As for the quality of the carpet and the leather, I agree that the carpet isn't the plush berber of your living room, but did you not inspect things like this before buying the car? Surely you sat in the seats and had an opinion about the leather before you drove it off the lot, didn't you?

Meade

ezpilze · October 2005

... I do believe I said ..., but this forum IS about the... if you don't understand what over emphasis upon a certain word is on a sentence. Please read more carefully as I have so painstakingly stated so many times to carguy (twice is enough in my book).

joe249 · October 2005

Maybe ,because it's a demo and also the paint chipped along drivers door edge. The car I tried was blue and has white primer.
The engine is noisey compared to my vetec.I live in Maine I took it to the top of Mt.Washington and the defroster doesn' get the side of windshield and drivers window too .(very fast) I think the a/c was cold but the fan was lacking in thrust.
The car is a fun ride,but wears on your back on trips.Also, I'm glad you like your car and I bet it's a five speed.I just don't see the quality for what you pay for.
I had to pay on my S $ 475.00 for Fogs and $450.00 for a spoiler extra and $ 300.00 for an X-Pel clear mask.I know it's just an over grown Civic EX,but am I wrong to compare the quality? The 3 doesn't have a door or lid where you put your change.I average 30 mpg now and about 22 to 28 on the three.
I think for 24K you can do better.Especially in standard features,except for Toyota,they"ll grab you.

pat · October 2005

Understood.

But let's be careful not to take things personally ... it's all good.

ezpilze · October 2005

Haha woops, yeah it was developed in Germany, got my chinese names mixed with english. I wonder why I said Russia though... mistake on my part, sorry.

mdaffron · October 2005

The car is a fun ride,but wears on your back on trips.Also, I'm glad you like your car and I bet it's a five speed.I just don't see the quality for what you pay for.

Well, mine is a five-speed s hatch. I paid under $17K for it and it's still loaded with all the features I wanted (most of which reside under the hood and body anyway).

I do think your first sentence in that line I copied above should read "... but wears on my back on trips." I say this because I'm a big guy, and the 3's seat remained very comfortable for my large, heavy back on a recent 400-mile trip to Pittsburgh (and the same trip back home five days later).

As for not seeing the quality, I dunno -- I guess that can be subjective, but the Mazda3 continually rates at the very top of the list for build quality, use of interior materials, fit & finish, etc. -- you name it -- in all the major car mags and Internet automotive sites (including good ol' Edmunds.com).

Meade

P.S. If you don't smoke, there's a covered ashtray (lighted too) at the bottom of the instrument panel. There's an armrest in the center console that has a split opening, the bottom part for CDs and the top part for smaller items. Seeing how that top part is padded, it seems to be the perfect place for spare change since the change won't vibrate there. The 3 has the largest glovebox in its class and a covered set of cupholders you could throw change into. So I'm counting five covered storage areas where change could reside. But speaking of change generally, who needs change in their car anymore? I have an E-ZPass transponder on my car for paying tolls. I know the Maine Turnpike Authority and all the other toll roads in the Northeast use E-ZPass too, so you don't need to have change rolling around in the car either! :shades:

carguy58 · October 2005

"There are reason why Toyota is pose to become not only number 1 in Japan but in the world, and there are reason why Nissan is once again number 2 in Japan overtaking Honda and there are reason why Mazda is still under Ford. You cant sell a lot of cars in a technology crazy country like Japan without offering innovation. Educate yourself."

Yes I know Henry Wankel did invent the rotary engine nut Mazda was the first to use the wankel technology. As far as Nissan is concerned Renault had to bail them out so don't say that Mazda is under Ford for and so and so reason. . I respect your post but try to be a little bit more nice next time saying my name is Carguy and why name is CarGuy? Educate myself I took that as some kind of diss. You can respond but don;t personally attack me please.

carguy58 · October 2005

I agree with most of your post. Yeah Mazda's may not be as reliable as H&T but I would still take them over any domestic. I think Toyota's are boring looking with the exception of the late Celica and Scion they just don;t do nothing for me. A 1998 626 still rank above average in reliability so its not a 40-50K thing. No I don;t do my own maintenance. I understand that Mazda's are not great to fix but like I said before I 'll take them over most car makes. Why are you brushing off Toyota's sludge thing though. Your saying how an MPV's engine broke down but a Toyota sludge thing you just brush off. I don;t get that.

Its only a board for opinions so relax people. Dang.

pat · October 2005

Things are getting personal when we really don't mean for that to be happening. It's all about the cars, remember? Not each other.

Let's get back to what we think about these three fine vehicles and stop focusing on each other - it ain't worth it!!

pat · October 2005

Carguy58, I need for you to email me if you could, please - pat AT edmunds.com. Put Edmunds in the subject and your user name in the email. Thanks, I appreciate it!!

legalpenguin · October 2005

I'm glad I'm not the only one being harped on here! Apparently more Mazda people are here and they always nail people who aren't Mazda lovers to the wall...or at least they try to!

Toyota and Honda are innovative. They both have hybrids. Where is Mazda's hybrid?

blane · October 2005

mdaffron,

Sorry, but you misread my post. I wrote: The following is quoted verbatim from a message on another website.

The piece was not mine, nor was the vehicle. I just quoted another owner on a vtec site, so I cannot respond to your questions.

I enjoyed my Wankel-engined 1972 Mazda RX3, but that was a long time ago and Mazda's quality has suffered since Ford bought a chunk of them. I was not pleased with the Hertz Mazda6 rental that I drove last year.

joe249 · October 2005

You might have a point.I like Mazda's ,but is the Patriot Act invoked on this forum?

pat · October 2005

is that all personal comments henceforth will cease and desist.

We really are here to talk about the cars and those who want to participate in talking about the cars are invited to continue.

Those who are unable to refrain from tossing in comments about others need to not comment at all.

giantkiller · October 2005

Yup , they had to bail them out. In fact Nissan is 44.4% owned by Renault. But in the same manner Nissan recently bought 15% of Renault. Their relationship is more of an alliance.
But lets stick to the subject. To say that Toyota doesnt have innovation is flat out wrong. Ignorance to say the lease.

sandpaper · October 2005

:P First impressions are big things! Most drivers like myself can't distinguish a good driving car and a bad driving car and base their likes and dislikes purely on aethestics and design. I'm not saying design is everything - I'll know when I am driving a piece of crap, but sitting in the car gives me that first 'click'. No matter how nicely the car drives, I don't think I'll notice it if I don't feel comfortable sitting in it the first 10 seconds. I think the Mazda3 excels in this regard.

audia8q · October 2005

To say that Toyota doesn't have innovation is flat out wrong. Ignorance to say the lease.

Every car maker innovates something...some are better than others. That said, being an innovator doesn't mean success in the marketplace...In some cases one company will innovate something and another carmaker will take it and make it better. History has proven the domestic car makers are probably the most innovative...The Asians are great at executing somebody elses original idea.

mylai1 · October 2005

"The Asians are great at executing somebody elses original idea". Um?? excuse me but im asian and i take offense to that, have you ever been to asia and see the cars they put out over there? i think domestic car makers are just as good at executing someone elses original idea including the asians. maybe you should leave the U.S. sometime before you say something ignorant like that.

giantkiller · October 2005

"History has proven the domestic car makers are probably the most innovative..."
Keep on believing that while the Asians are silently moving forward.

autonomous · October 2005

History has proven the domestic car makers are probably the most innovative
That depends on whose history book you are reading. Remind me, Rich, which "domestic car makers" were responsible for the diesel, the rotary and the hybrid?

mdaffron · October 2005

I think we've innovated enough, and we've all had our opinion to the point that the host here is probably considering the innovative idea of closing this off-track discussion down.

Anybody heard any news about the Corolla redesign?

Meade

audia8q · October 2005

mylai....It wasn't ment as something insulting...so stop being so super sensitive. Yes, I have been to Japan and toured Mazda city, twice..also been to Trollhattan, Weissach and Stuttgart. Never been to Detroit though, have you?....Go back and read some history books and perhaps you might learn something. History and innovation didn't start a few years ago.. Here is a quote that perhaps says what I ment better than I did...
"The Japanese are particularly good at focusing on promising technologies and commercializing them," said David G. Victor, director of Stanford University's Program on Energy and Sustainable Development. While most inovation comes from U.S. companies, he said, the Japanese have a proven knack for "managing innovation," and "integrating innovation into the manufacturing process."

autonomous...come on. like I mentioned above, inovations didn't start yesterday. Which imports were responsible for the assembly line, airbags, windshield wipers, headlights, crash test dummies, turn signals, automatic transmissions, electrical ignition system, power steering...and the list goes on and on. I suspect my short list has benefited hundreds of millions of people..I'm a Mazda guy but innovating the rotary engine hasn't benefited anyone and so far the hybrids are not living up to gas mileage expectations and the technology has been around since the 20's/30's so what makes it so innovative??...the diesel has been a big winner but not for typical traditional carbuyers but for the trucking industry.

Grandpa was right when he used to tell me that necessity is the mother of all inventions. Americans have different necsseties than other countries.

Ok, enough...I didnt mean to turn this into a war of innovation...

pat · October 2005

some of us are turning things into personal confrontations when no one meant to go there.

And it would be a good thing if we coud stick to the Civic and the Corolla and the Mazda3 since that's what our subject is.

Thanks.

Honda Civic vs Toyota Corolla vs Mazda3

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles