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Honda Civic vs Toyota Corolla vs Mazda3

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Comments

  • gearjammer62gearjammer62 Member Posts: 108
    My 18 y/o nephew has the new Mazda 3. I drove it and it was ok - nothing stellar. You can really tell Ford owns this company - cheap plastics, tinny sounding doors and hood, and already a few buzzes and rattles.

    I have also noticed the J.D. Power quality scores based on actual consumer feedback for Mazda are always below Honda and Toyota.

    After driving one, I see why.
  • gearjammer62gearjammer62 Member Posts: 108
    backy - just saw today that Honda will produce a sedan version of the Si alongside the coupe for the '07 model year - with the same 197hp K20Z3 engine and 6 speed MT in the coupe that is getting rave reviews. Way cool.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Where did you see that? I saw something on that too, but it was a discussion forum like this one with a photoshopped picture of a "2007 Civic Si sedan"--in other words, it was someone's fantasy. Is there a press release from Honda or something else official?
  • eric29eric29 Member Posts: 49
    According to this report, all the economy claims are overstated, not just the ones for the hybrid:

    http://autos.msn.com/advice/CRArt.aspx?contentid=4023460
  • gib11gib11 Member Posts: 47
    Gearjammer62, when you say that the MZ3 felt "cheap plastics, tinny sounding doors and hood", You say that according to what? A BMW standard? Then I agree with You. Otherwise, I really dont. I own the 5 doors, and its a blast to ride even today. By the way i have the 5man. and bought the car in octobre 2003. It has 30000miles. I didn't have much problem (cel). And it doesn't rattle, and the doors close very eurepean like. The inside different plastics and textures don't look cheap at all. The limonescent lighting (you don't get that in the i) with blue and red is very cool and calming for the eyes. The seat, firm but confortable. Good for sport driving. Then theres the look. Everything well put together inside/out. Not even considering the riding quality, the exterior looking, and a strong motor (2,3l, 160hp), I thing the mazda3 is a darn remarquable car for its price. Not cheap at all! :D
  • gib11gib11 Member Posts: 47
    Has for reilability issue, watch the new civic gen problems
    ">link titlehttp://www.8thgencivic.com/honda-civic-forum/mechanical-problems-vehicle-issues-fix-forum.- html<a href="
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    Well, I was interested enough to hunt down that non-working link. Here's the working version:

    http://www.8thgencivic.com/honda-civic-forum/mechanical-problems-vehicle-issues-fix-forum.- html

    Meade
  • z71billz71bill Member Posts: 1,986
    I have seen it posted many times - all new cars have some problems - or maybe - all first model year cars have some problems - take your pick - or accept both.

    The issue is what will Honda do about the issues? My guess is they will FIX THEM - because the want to KEEP the customers that take a chance and buy a new model HAPPY.

    Anyone think that 22 months from now people will still be posting about the same problems with their 2006 Civic?

    Anyone think that people who buy the 2007 Civic will have the same problems?

    For some reason I think Honda will jump on these issues and get them solved QUICKLY - not like "some" car company I know - who takes almost 2 years to finally get a fix out for something as simple as a poor shifting tranny - or grinding brakes - or worse - has no fix on something as important as the HVAC system.

    Time will tell - I could be wrong -
  • gib11gib11 Member Posts: 47
    Well Honda had issues with their 7th gen civic suspension since the beginning and never could really fix it. I dont want to ditch Honda, but they do have issues to (civic bad supension conception 2001-2004, only a little better in 2005). And I'm asking myself how many recalls and TSB for the 7th gen civic or even accord? They are not perfect. Now it starts pretty strong for the 8th gen civic (oil leak, Airbag sensor, pedals loose!, cruise control) and some insatisfaction to (fuel consumption, driving position, confort). Hey, theres also some very good stuff about the new civic (motor technology (1,8l single overhead cam producing 140hp is something else), design, fuel economy (I bet though that it will consume more than the 7th gen civic, because its more heavy, and I read the same in forum reviews) and the Si :)
  • autonomousautonomous Member Posts: 1,769
    They are not perfect.
    I think one could say that about any carmaker. If you believe the reliability ratings provided by Consumer Reports the Honda Civic and Honda Accord are among the most reliable vehicles on the road. :)

    As Aristotle said "the perfect is the enemy of the good"; in other words, aiming for perfection is a recipe for dissatisfaction.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    The pursuit of perfection? Hmm, sounds like it could be the slogan for... a car company?
  • stewpeanutstewpeanut Member Posts: 6
    i'm struggling with this decision...06 civic ex sedan vs 06 mazda3 5-door GT

    i've test driven the civic three times and the mazda3 twice. in each case the mazda won for 'fun to drive'. the civic isn't bad...but it feels disconnected and unresponsive in comparison to the 3.

    i need to make my decision soon...but it's tough. here is my current listing of points each vehicle wins on and some negative points for each. please feel free to respond.

    civic wins:
    refined / simple interior
    fuel efficiency
    dealer / service network
    reputation for quality
    resale
    ability to replace stock stereo & retain some stock appearance (with dx dash piece)

    mazda3 wins
    acceleration / power
    crisp / responsive handling
    hatch flexibility
    fog lights standard
    longer standard warranty
    leather (albeit not great leather)
    heated seats w/lumbar adjustment
    xenon / hid lighting
    auto climate control
    lower insurance premium
    no dealer haggling (s plan)

    civic negatives
    high insurance premium
    new / redesign 'kinks' need worked out
    TIGHT engine bay
    light color interior only (for sedans)

    mazda3 negatives
    console impedes leg room
    busy integrated dash/console (difficult to replace stock hu)
  • mcap56mcap56 Member Posts: 48
    I think I saw this post on temple of vtec. Was that you? In any case, you can read my response there. Again, I think they are both great cars - I agree with your impressions. Some things to consider:

    -I thought the Honda was a bit disconected also but after driving mine for a day, it isn't. It has a good amount of road feel. A bit less than the 3 but not much.
    -Civic will have much better resale. I had my car for about 2 years prior to trade and it only lost about 25% of it's value. Unheard of for other economy cars.
    -Civic has better visibility
    -Althought the interiors on the Mazda are dark (some are hideous ivory though), you may be regretting that when you need A/C. Apparently it isn't up to the job with a black interior.
    -My galaxy grey sedan has a very nice, not too light, grey interior.
    -Civic could possibly be rated as the safest car in it's class once the crash test ratings come out (Jetta is up there though).
    -There are problems reported with the Mazda3 rear rotors. Apparently they are wearing out a lot faster than they should.

    There are issues with the Civic also. I prefer the Mazda seats and this is a first model year for Honda. Could be an issue although other first year hondas have done very well. Great car either way!!!

    Take care,
    marc
  • stewpeanutstewpeanut Member Posts: 6
    thanks for the response marc...good feedback. i wish the civic crash ratings were out already.

    i did post this over on tov as well. figured that i'd pasted it here since i already had written it out. (though i don't see a response there yet)
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    The IIHS crash test scores for the Civic are supposed to be released tomorrow.

    You need to prioritize your criteria. For example, is the driving experience more or less important to you than things like resale value? Also, you didn't mention the versatility of the 5-door Mazda3 compared to the Civic with its smallish trunk. If that is not important to you, couldn't you save some money and get a Mazda3i Touring, which is closer to the Civic sedan (cloth interior, 16" wheels etc.) than the loaded Mazda3s you are looking at?
  • stewpeanutstewpeanut Member Posts: 6
    i'll check out the crash test scores...thanks for the udpate on that.

    actually i did mention 'hatch flexibility' in my mazda3 wins.

    the pricing of the civic ex and mazda gt are pretty neck and neck. speaking from a pure 'features' pov, the mazda wins.

    the points i'm most focused on right now are driving experience, efficiency, maintenance, comfort, insurance cost.

    the mazda wins two, the civic wins one...and they tie in the comfort and maintenance categories (both have some minor quirks)

    i'm going to go take another look today. i'm hoping to make my decision in the next few days. then i'll have to deal with current low stock levels for both vehicles...fun.
  • mcap56mcap56 Member Posts: 48
    If you can afford to wait and shop around, don't let the dealers play the "inventory" game with you. I found decent supplies of both cars. I got my civic for 1,000 below msrp. A lot of people are paying full price. I found dealers willing to haggle on the Mazda3 and give me decent value for my trade.

    Best of luck,,,,,,,,,Marc
  • mbt1mbt1 Member Posts: 33
    I am considering buying a mazda3i touring and would like to know if it will likely match the long-term reliability of a Civic or Corolla. I have often read or heard that Civics and Corollas can easily surpass 200,000 miles without major repairs. Can a Mazda product be similarly reliable? I would appreciate everyone's input.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    It is the IIHS' "Top Pick" in the small car class, because it is the only small car to have achieved "Good" scores on the IIHS' front, side, and rear crash tests:

    http://www.iihs.org/ratings/ratingsbyseries.aspx?id=300

    It would be good if Mazda would pay for a test of the Mazda3 with side air bags/curtains. Perhaps the fact that it has chosen not to do so means it knows the result would not be that great. Just like Honda asked the IIHS to hold off testing the Civic until the redesigned '06 model was available. I wonder if there is any bias here. The IIHS delayed its testing at Honda's request, and they also released their test of the '06 Civic just a few weeks after the car went on sale. Meanwhile, other new designs like the '06 Sonata have been selling for months and have not yet been tested. Seems a bit odd to me.
  • gib11gib11 Member Posts: 47
    IMO, all those reviews cant be wrong.
    link title
  • allfiredupallfiredup Member Posts: 736
    I've been struggling for a few months with my decision of which car to buy- Mazda3 or Honda Civic. I finally made my decision today. I'm going with the Mazda3 s Touring 5-door.

    The new Civic is a fantastic car, but the fun to drive factor, 160hp engine, black interior and available hatchback versatility won me over. I particularly had a problem with the Civic's color combinations/options. I hate almost all ivory/beige/tan interiors, there is just something very unappealing about them to me. The Civic's other option of gray isn't bad, but there was only one exterior color I liked with it (Atomic Blue). They couldn't find that color in a manual transmission. Ugh!

    Anyway, the Mazda is great. I bought it out of state (best deal, about two hours away), so I'm going to get it Thursday afternoon. I can't wait!
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I know you will love it. zoom zoom!
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    You needed to get the Civic Si. Black interior and great external colors and plenty of fun-to-drive factor.
  • dairyshickdairyshick Member Posts: 129
    I don't remember ever hearing of an stereo auxiliary input on the MZ3, but am I wrong??
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Not a whole lot of people and cargo room in that there Si though, compared to the Mazda3s, is there?
  • 03accordman03accordman Member Posts: 671
    Not a lot fun to drive in that Mz3 though, compared to the Si, is there? No comparison!

    People & Cargo room, Go PT Cruiser!
  • jaym2jaym2 Member Posts: 4
    I like the looks of the 2006 Civic. Like the EX. Can anyone tell me if the seats are uncomfortable. I have gotten used to my power seats on my Camry. Am concerned about going back to plain old manual seats. I have slight back problems and find myself making small adjustments to the seat position 8 - 10 times in a 30 mile commute.

    I want to get better gas mileage with the Civic or Civiv Hybrid, but will be real unhappy if my back hurts each time I drive it. I wanted to buy a Prius, but after driving a dealer's loaner car for one day, my back and butt were aching.
  • warnerwarner Member Posts: 196
    I can tell you that the seats on the 2006 are firm and supportive. I have not taken a long trip with it yet so I can't give you that report yet. However, on the 2004 Civic that I traded in on this one, I remember thinking about how firm the seats felt and wondered if they'd be comfortable on a long trip. Well, I found out....I drove 1300 miles straight through, with a 2 hour stop half way through. I also own a conversion van with captains seats, etc. On a trip of that length in the van, my lower back would have been hurting me. With the Civic, my back was FINE. I'm hoping for the same experience on the new Civic. I have no reason to believe that it would be different, but can't say 100% before I try it out.

    Warner
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    You really don't think the Mazda3s is fun to drive? Well, to each his own.
  • 03accordman03accordman Member Posts: 671
    Its all relative. Fun to drive compared to a Corolla, yes, fun to drive compared to an Si, no (at least from the reviews, I haven't driven it yet myself yet).

    Similarly for people and cargo room. Relative.
  • mcapmcap Member Posts: 49
    I would go to the dealer and sit in the seats for a good long while. Ask them if you can rent a loaner car. I am a huge Honda fan but for me, their achilles heel has been their seats. Honda is alway sticking curves where they think people should have them. Often they don't!! The manual adjustments are fine, but there is no changing the lumbar support. In addition, the seats are very hard. Perhaps they will break in. I don't find them comfortable. Other people however, have found them to be excellent, among the best in the class. So, it really is an individual preference.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    You really should drive a Mazda3s, you might just have fun!

    I haven't yet seen a review of the Mazda3s vs. the Si. But the reviews I've seen of the 3s are quite positive in the "fun to drive" area.
  • 03accordman03accordman Member Posts: 671
    Backy, I regularly rent cars for business; have rented a Mz3 on many an occassion. While it has very good handling for the money, it is nowhere near the hype built around it (IMO). Most people on this forum liken it to a 3 series; to them I say please drive a 3 series once and then comment.
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    Most people on this forum liken it to a 3 series; to them I say please drive a 3 series once and then comment.

    I don't think anyone is saying the MZ3 is a BMW but at half the price the car stands very tall. Probably closer to a BMW in handling/feel than anything else in it's price class...BMW has been the benchmark for great handling sedans and the MZ3 fits right into the concept at half the cost...
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    You are lucky to have found 3s'es for rental. I've only seen the 3i's, which don't have the same handling as the 3s.
  • 03accordman03accordman Member Posts: 671
    I have rented both i's as well as s's, couldn't find any discernable difference in handling (could be just me)
  • 03accordman03accordman Member Posts: 671
    Pesonally I like the Mz6's ride and handling better than an Mz3
  • tjdepere2004tjdepere2004 Member Posts: 40
    I suspect by now your decision is made. Yet the point i would like to make is that test driving a model off the dealers lot is not satisfactory--- if you are putting your money down to buy.Please go rent that model for a weekend from a rental company---and then drive it as you intend to drive your purchased auto. That methods seems to furnish answers and raise question for you about what you will be putting your money down on.
  • allfiredupallfiredup Member Posts: 736
    No AUX input for the stereo, although there are a couple of options.

    The easiest and cheapest is an FM transmitter. Not an option for me because you lose too much sound quality.

    Another way, though kinda clunky, would be to add a cassette player to the car. It's about $160 and would allow me to use a cassette adapter to hook up my iPod. It may sound crazy, but I've actually gotten very good sound quality from it in the past.

    The most complex, but best way, is to add an AUX adapter. Apparently, there is a way to "hack" into the stereo and hook up something to the back of it. It would create a line out to plug into an iPod. I've only read about it on a Mazda enthusiast website, I'd have to pay someone to do it. I'm not very technical.

    The lack of an AUX input jack is the biggest fault of the MZ3. At least there are ways around it, though.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,435
    The driver's seat is the one thing that scared me away from the new Civic sedan. I just couldn't seem to get comfortable in it. Can't quite rememebr if it was the lumbar support (too pronounced), but the bottom cushion wasn't quite shaped right, and I had trouble mvoing around on it to get comfortable.

    Actually, the best option might be aftermarket leather (and a re-work of the cushions), but that can get pricey.

    We also have an '05 Odyssey. Some people complained about those seats, but once I get settled in, they are very comfortable, especially on a long haul.

    I also have some back issues, and am very picky about seats, so it isn't that uncommon for me to not like seats that most people consider good.

    So, try them out is all I can say. And if you want real nice seats, try a Jetta, especially one with 12 way power!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,435
    One more problem that the Civic and 3 share. IN both cars, you can't get the front edge tilted up for thigh support (the way I like it). If you crank the seat all the way down (so you feel like you are sitting in a hole), the cushion angle is almost OK. But, as soon as you raise the seat up for visibility, the abck end comes up higher and "pitches" you forward.

    This drives me nuts, to the extent that if I bought either car, i would have to take it to a custom interior shop and have them add spacers under the front seat bolts to change the overall seat angle.

    The Corolla seats are just a lumpy uncomfortable mess. I cna't even single out any one problem area they are that bad. Too small too.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I didn't have any problem with the Civic's lumbar but read a recent review where they complained a lot about it. I did want to raise the front edge of the seat cushion a little more--that's why I like cars that let you raise the front and rear of the cushion independently.

    The Corolla's driving position is so uncomfortable for me, I can't even consider that car.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,435
    agreed. Power seats are a real help, but that requirement eliminates most small cars, which I actually would prefer to drive.

    The biggest culprit is the single lever "ratchet" height adjustment that Honda and Mazda use. That causes the forward pitch problem.

    The protege had a great set up: individual knobs that raised the front or rear independently. Functioned just like an 8 way power seat, but wasn't quite as convenient as a single lever.

    With the side air bags now, you can't even go aftermarket for real sport seats!

    Someday I will stop at a shop and ask about having them add spacers, to see if it is even feasible, and if so, how much of a lift they can do.

    The overall feel of a seat can change quite a bit if you can change the pitch angle (that is, tilt it back).

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Actually I wasn't talking only about power seats. The Protege has two height adjustments, as you noted, as do most Hyundais and Kias. I'd like to see that kind of feature on the Mazda3, Civic, and Corolla.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    A couple people have responded to you about seat comfort, and it is correct to assume that seat comfort is a choice only you can make for yourself. I am 6'5", and the seat was comfortable enough to me, but not as cozy as the new Accord I just got. I was not uncomfortable in the Civic, and actually had plenty of room due to plenty of adjustment capability in the seat. Someone sitting behind me would have to be short though. Firm and supportive (in my opinion, not everyone's though) is a perfect way to sum up Honda's seats in every car they offer. No saggy foam to be found (as in many GM cars). The seats seem designed to offer long-haul firm comfort, not ten-minute plushness to be followed by the saggy support bringing pain. My girlfriend's father was hit by a car (as a pedestrian, not a wreck) and has chronic back problems), and was very comfortable on a trip from Birmingham to Huntsville (120 miles).

    My best advice, is go and "try it on", you should try it for longer than 60 seconds though; sit in it for the duration of an average commute and see how you feel. Best of luck car shopping!

    thegrad
  • allfiredupallfiredup Member Posts: 736
    stickguy- how tall are you? I haven't noticed the seat problem in either car, but I like the seat all the down to the floor. Maybe all those years in my old Civics and Accords got me comfortable sitting so low. Then again, I am close to 6'3", so usually all the way down was the best way to keep my head from hitting the headliner/sunroof. Thank God the '80s are over...that spiked hair made it hard for me to fit into any car!
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,435
    6', with a long torso relative to my height (guess that's s nice way of saying dumpy legs?)

    I just prefuer to sit up a bit (for the view), but like to have the front edge of the seat tilted up a lot, probably more so than most people. WHen I drive my wifes Ody, tilting the front edge of the seat up is the first thing I do.

    I hate the pitching forward feeling you get in some cars, and that's what happens when you raise the seat in the Civic or 3. I also don't like to sit all the way down on the floor.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • allfiredupallfiredup Member Posts: 736
    At least with power seats you can usually lower the back and raise the front a little. My parents drive an Explorer and a Grand Cherokee and I can get more comfortable in those than in any car I've ever owned. You would really think cars like Civic EX and Mazda3 Grand Touring would offer power adjustment.

    The two knob thing sounds pretty good. I test drove a Spectra and seem to recall that the driving position was very comfy. I haven't driven a Corolla in a couple of years, but I do remember the seats sucked.
  • allfiredupallfiredup Member Posts: 736
    Well, if you would simply drive uphill all the time it wouldn't be an issue, would it? :P

    Just kidding. I've always hated that feeling of being pitched forward in the seat. I've noticed that a lot of people drive with the seat reclined back a notch or two, probably for that exact reason. But I keep the seatback very upright...I can't stand to lay down to drive.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Funny thing is, the Spectra went from a dual-knob setup to a single lever (one adjustment) in '04--a move backwards if you ask me. Similar thing happened from the Protege to the Mazda3. I don't think Civic and Corolla ever had dual height adjustments on the driver's seat.
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